He's becoming a parody at this stage.
I mean, looking at the still image it looked like it touched his hair, however watching the replay the ball didn't move rotation at all, so it was going to go where it went regardless of Ronaldos hair touching it. But the keeper would probably have saved it had Ronaldo not been there to I guess distract the keeper
Don't know how accurate this is but German TV ran some sniko and it was flatlined as it past Ronaldo and there was no spike. The guy is doing a Harry Kane.
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 3 minutes ago
I mean, looking at the still image it looked like it touched his hair, however watching the replay the ball didn't move rotation at all, so it was going to go where it went regardless of Ronaldos hair touching it. But the keeper would probably have saved it had Ronaldo not been there to I guess distract the keeper
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. No one is denying the fact that Ronaldo's presence was irrelevant.
2. Ultimately, I'm not that interested in whether the ball brushed Ronaldo's hair on its way past.
3. The point here is that very few footballers, particularly in a national team set-up at the WC where togetherness and team spirit are so important, would go out of their way to claim a goal that had been officially awarded to their team mate. If the roles had been reversed, can you imagine Bruno claiming the goal for himself? (Actually, we have a precedent, where he 'awarded' a goal to Rashford in a very similar scenario where the latter probably didn't make contact with Bruno's cross.) If it had been a different player, can you imagine the national FA going to the trouble to ask Fifa to take away the goal from one player in order to award it to another?
I can't imagine a universe in which this doesn't feel like high maintenance to the rest of the dressing room and where it doesn't have a certain amount of negative impact on the psychology of the group.
Be interesting to see what Portugal's evidence is? I did see that Adidas have said their technology showed no signs contact was made when the ball passed Ronaldo's head but I wonder how much contact their technology can detect?
Not that the technology would ever be that sensitive but lets say a single hair touched the ball then surely technically that counts as contact? Obviously Ronaldo would never be able to feel a single folicle of hair touching the ball but's he's not going to say that.
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 30 seconds ago
Be interesting to see what Portugal's evidence is? I did see that Adidas have said their technology showed no signs contact was made when the ball passed Ronaldo's head but I wonder how much contact their technology can detect?
Not that the technology would ever be that sensitive but lets say a single hair touched the ball then surely technically that counts as contact? Obviously Ronaldo would never be able to feel a single folicle of hair touching the ball but's he's not going to say that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does it count as his goal if he didn't change the direction of the ball even if it brushed him?
For instance, no one was claiming that Casemiro's goal yesterday was an OG despite it clearly touching the opposition player on the way in.
Process
I assume OGs and deflected goals from team mates have different rules. OGs are only given if the original shot wasn't going in I think where as any deflection from a team mate (intential or not) will be counted.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 35 seconds ago
Process
I assume OGs and deflected goals from team mates have different rules. OGs are only given if the original shot wasn't going in I think where as any deflection from a team mate (intential or not) will be counted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks 1982, never sure of that rule.
Sat Nav
Probably but those players weren't Ronaldo so weren't bothered enough to make their club/nation give evidence to get it changed.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 30 seconds ago
Be interesting to see what Portugal's evidence is? I did see that Adidas have said their technology showed no signs contact was made when the ball passed Ronaldo's head but I wonder how much contact their technology can detect?
Not that the technology would ever be that sensitive but lets say a single hair touched the ball then surely technically that counts as contact? Obviously Ronaldo would never be able to feel a single folicle of hair touching the ball but's he's not going to say that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does it count as his goal if he didn't change the direction of the ball even if it brushed him?
For instance, no one was claiming that Casemiro's goal yesterday was an OG despite it clearly touching the opposition player on the way in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that depends on whether it's an OG or not. Usually the striker (Casemrio) gets the goal if the ball is seemingly on target. The Ronaldo scenario a bit different perhaps as it's a goal somebody may want to claim.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't remember another example of an FA taking the trouble to appeal to a governing body to have a goal awarded to a different player. Two or three years ago Spurs appealed to the PL goals committee to have a goal awarded to Harry Kane when it looked like Eriksen's free kick had gone in directly but Kane claimed it brushed his shoulder on the way.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Bet Bruno hates his guts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He must be sick of him at this stage.
On the different 'rules' when it's an own goal or deflected by a team-mate, it seems unsatisfyingly unscientific to treat it differently. I guess the crux of the matter is that in the case of deflections off opponents, the interests of both parties are aligned in not calling it an own goal so this has become the path of least resistance.
He's actually always been this way but everyone has looked the other way because he was an utter genius.
Now he's not very good and it gets a lot more irritating.
Always prefered Rooney myself. Always felt like one of our own (even though he wasn't) whilst Ronnie had eyes on Madrid from the very start with us.
Yeah I think that's all it is. We need to see Ronaldo deflect the ball into his own net from a shot we can't quite work out whether was on target or not before.
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 6 minutes ago
He's actually always been this way but everyone has looked the other way because he was an utter genius.
Now he's not very good and it gets a lot more irritating.
Always prefered Rooney myself. Always felt like one of our own (even though he wasn't) whilst Ronnie had eyes on Madrid from the very start with us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Me too. Like most of our greats, Rooney *became* one of our own having started his footballing career elsewhere. He was always a very team-orientated footballer, and his personal stats would have been even more impressive (like Benzema's, now I come to think of it) had the manager not gratefully utilised his readiness to work like a horse when required to fulfil unselfish tasks.
By the way, I'm not sure I'd call Ronaldo a 'genius'. Hugely gifted. An unparalleled athlete. No one is close to him in his dedication to getting the maximum from his abilities. Very intelligent in his understanding of timing and attacking space. But there are many players in his generation with superior creative vision, better at improvising novel solutions to footballing problems.
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 minutes ago
He's actually always been this way but everyone has looked the other way because he was an utter genius.
Now he's not very good and it gets a lot more irritating.
Always prefered Rooney myself. Always felt like one of our own (even though he wasn't) whilst Ronnie had eyes on Madrid from the very start with us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I loved Rooney, at least for the first few years. But he isn't one of us, he's a blue. And good for him.
In other news, it's widely reported that the Portuguese Football Association will be *presenting evidence* to Fifa in support of the claim that the first goal in their win over Uruguay should be awarded to Ronaldo,
—————
I honestly don’t see how a simple brown envelope constitutes ‘evidence’?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't remember another example of an FA taking the trouble to appeal to a governing body to have a goal awarded to a different player. Two or three years ago Spurs appealed to the PL goals committee to have a goal awarded to Harry Kane when it looked like Eriksen's free kick had gone in directly but Kane claimed it brushed his shoulder on the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is the key. Clubs and FAs alike will sometimes look to exalt their stars even at the expense of their teammates. I suppose that somehow it translates into additional visibility for them.
Ronaldo is setting records on the international stage that, for as long as they stand, will read "(Portugal)" alongside them. My guess is the Portuguese FA want him to notch up as many goals as possible before he retires, especially (though not only) if it's at the World Cup.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't remember another example of an FA taking the trouble to appeal to a governing body to have a goal awarded to a different player. Two or three years ago Spurs appealed to the PL goals committee to have a goal awarded to Harry Kane when it looked like Eriksen's free kick had gone in directly but Kane claimed it brushed his shoulder on the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is the key. Clubs and FAs alike will sometimes look to exalt their stars even at the expense of their teammates. I suppose that somehow it translates into additional visibility for them.
Ronaldo is setting records on the international stage that, for as long as they stand, will read "(Portugal)" alongside them. My guess is the Portuguese FA want him to notch up as many goals as possible before he retires, especially (though not only) if it's at the World Cup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it might just be that Ronaldo has too much influence they have to do this.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Zacab (U18502)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't remember another example of an FA taking the trouble to appeal to a governing body to have a goal awarded to a different player. Two or three years ago Spurs appealed to the PL goals committee to have a goal awarded to Harry Kane when it looked like Eriksen's free kick had gone in directly but Kane claimed it brushed his shoulder on the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is the key. Clubs and FAs alike will sometimes look to exalt their stars even at the expense of their teammates. I suppose that somehow it translates into additional visibility for them.
Ronaldo is setting records on the international stage that, for as long as they stand, will read "(Portugal)" alongside them. My guess is the Portuguese FA want him to notch up as many goals as possible before he retires, especially (though not only) if it's at the World Cup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it might just be that Ronaldo has too much influence they have to do this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s something along these lines with both parties having aligned agendas. What’s good for Ronaldo is good for the Portuguese FA at this stage.
My initial query was wondering if this type of process happens more often than we realise but because it’s not Ronaldo, we don’t hear about it perhaps.
Ronaldo pushing for this completely matches his personality type of being extremely driven for individual success, team success is a second priority. Goal scorers are often like this. I remember Rio saying this about Ruud, he’d be really pssed off even if United won but because HE didn’t score.
SatNav, there's a degree of difference IMO between a striker being pssed off at not scoring and one being so pssed off about the stats not giving him credit for perceived contribution that he wants to take the stat off a team mate.
In the first instance I can just about say that such single-mindedness about impacting on the game can be positive. In the second instance, there's no substantive difference for the team, it's not about evaluating his contribution in a potentially self-critical way like RVN's anger. It's just vanity.
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"It doesn't matter who scores"
Page 1 of 2
posted on 29/11/22
He's becoming a parody at this stage.
posted on 29/11/22
I mean, looking at the still image it looked like it touched his hair, however watching the replay the ball didn't move rotation at all, so it was going to go where it went regardless of Ronaldos hair touching it. But the keeper would probably have saved it had Ronaldo not been there to I guess distract the keeper
posted on 29/11/22
Don't know how accurate this is but German TV ran some sniko and it was flatlined as it past Ronaldo and there was no spike. The guy is doing a Harry Kane.
posted on 29/11/22
comment by Christ We Won (TENƎꓕ) (U17162)
posted 3 minutes ago
I mean, looking at the still image it looked like it touched his hair, however watching the replay the ball didn't move rotation at all, so it was going to go where it went regardless of Ronaldos hair touching it. But the keeper would probably have saved it had Ronaldo not been there to I guess distract the keeper
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. No one is denying the fact that Ronaldo's presence was irrelevant.
2. Ultimately, I'm not that interested in whether the ball brushed Ronaldo's hair on its way past.
3. The point here is that very few footballers, particularly in a national team set-up at the WC where togetherness and team spirit are so important, would go out of their way to claim a goal that had been officially awarded to their team mate. If the roles had been reversed, can you imagine Bruno claiming the goal for himself? (Actually, we have a precedent, where he 'awarded' a goal to Rashford in a very similar scenario where the latter probably didn't make contact with Bruno's cross.) If it had been a different player, can you imagine the national FA going to the trouble to ask Fifa to take away the goal from one player in order to award it to another?
I can't imagine a universe in which this doesn't feel like high maintenance to the rest of the dressing room and where it doesn't have a certain amount of negative impact on the psychology of the group.
posted on 29/11/22
Be interesting to see what Portugal's evidence is? I did see that Adidas have said their technology showed no signs contact was made when the ball passed Ronaldo's head but I wonder how much contact their technology can detect?
Not that the technology would ever be that sensitive but lets say a single hair touched the ball then surely technically that counts as contact? Obviously Ronaldo would never be able to feel a single folicle of hair touching the ball but's he's not going to say that.
posted on 29/11/22
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
posted on 29/11/22
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 30 seconds ago
Be interesting to see what Portugal's evidence is? I did see that Adidas have said their technology showed no signs contact was made when the ball passed Ronaldo's head but I wonder how much contact their technology can detect?
Not that the technology would ever be that sensitive but lets say a single hair touched the ball then surely technically that counts as contact? Obviously Ronaldo would never be able to feel a single folicle of hair touching the ball but's he's not going to say that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does it count as his goal if he didn't change the direction of the ball even if it brushed him?
For instance, no one was claiming that Casemiro's goal yesterday was an OG despite it clearly touching the opposition player on the way in.
posted on 29/11/22
Process
I assume OGs and deflected goals from team mates have different rules. OGs are only given if the original shot wasn't going in I think where as any deflection from a team mate (intential or not) will be counted.
posted on 29/11/22
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 35 seconds ago
Process
I assume OGs and deflected goals from team mates have different rules. OGs are only given if the original shot wasn't going in I think where as any deflection from a team mate (intential or not) will be counted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks 1982, never sure of that rule.
posted on 29/11/22
Bet Bruno hates his guts
posted on 29/11/22
Sat Nav
Probably but those players weren't Ronaldo so weren't bothered enough to make their club/nation give evidence to get it changed.
posted on 29/11/22
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 30 seconds ago
Be interesting to see what Portugal's evidence is? I did see that Adidas have said their technology showed no signs contact was made when the ball passed Ronaldo's head but I wonder how much contact their technology can detect?
Not that the technology would ever be that sensitive but lets say a single hair touched the ball then surely technically that counts as contact? Obviously Ronaldo would never be able to feel a single folicle of hair touching the ball but's he's not going to say that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does it count as his goal if he didn't change the direction of the ball even if it brushed him?
For instance, no one was claiming that Casemiro's goal yesterday was an OG despite it clearly touching the opposition player on the way in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that depends on whether it's an OG or not. Usually the striker (Casemrio) gets the goal if the ball is seemingly on target. The Ronaldo scenario a bit different perhaps as it's a goal somebody may want to claim.
posted on 29/11/22
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't remember another example of an FA taking the trouble to appeal to a governing body to have a goal awarded to a different player. Two or three years ago Spurs appealed to the PL goals committee to have a goal awarded to Harry Kane when it looked like Eriksen's free kick had gone in directly but Kane claimed it brushed his shoulder on the way.
posted on 29/11/22
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 minutes ago
Bet Bruno hates his guts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He must be sick of him at this stage.
posted on 29/11/22
On the different 'rules' when it's an own goal or deflected by a team-mate, it seems unsatisfyingly unscientific to treat it differently. I guess the crux of the matter is that in the case of deflections off opponents, the interests of both parties are aligned in not calling it an own goal so this has become the path of least resistance.
posted on 29/11/22
He's actually always been this way but everyone has looked the other way because he was an utter genius.
Now he's not very good and it gets a lot more irritating.
Always prefered Rooney myself. Always felt like one of our own (even though he wasn't) whilst Ronnie had eyes on Madrid from the very start with us.
posted on 29/11/22
Yeah I think that's all it is. We need to see Ronaldo deflect the ball into his own net from a shot we can't quite work out whether was on target or not before.
posted on 29/11/22
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 6 minutes ago
He's actually always been this way but everyone has looked the other way because he was an utter genius.
Now he's not very good and it gets a lot more irritating.
Always prefered Rooney myself. Always felt like one of our own (even though he wasn't) whilst Ronnie had eyes on Madrid from the very start with us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Me too. Like most of our greats, Rooney *became* one of our own having started his footballing career elsewhere. He was always a very team-orientated footballer, and his personal stats would have been even more impressive (like Benzema's, now I come to think of it) had the manager not gratefully utilised his readiness to work like a horse when required to fulfil unselfish tasks.
By the way, I'm not sure I'd call Ronaldo a 'genius'. Hugely gifted. An unparalleled athlete. No one is close to him in his dedication to getting the maximum from his abilities. Very intelligent in his understanding of timing and attacking space. But there are many players in his generation with superior creative vision, better at improvising novel solutions to footballing problems.
posted on 29/11/22
comment by Glazers Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 22 minutes ago
He's actually always been this way but everyone has looked the other way because he was an utter genius.
Now he's not very good and it gets a lot more irritating.
Always prefered Rooney myself. Always felt like one of our own (even though he wasn't) whilst Ronnie had eyes on Madrid from the very start with us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I loved Rooney, at least for the first few years. But he isn't one of us, he's a blue. And good for him.
posted on 29/11/22
In other news, it's widely reported that the Portuguese Football Association will be *presenting evidence* to Fifa in support of the claim that the first goal in their win over Uruguay should be awarded to Ronaldo,
—————
I honestly don’t see how a simple brown envelope constitutes ‘evidence’?
posted on 29/11/22
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't remember another example of an FA taking the trouble to appeal to a governing body to have a goal awarded to a different player. Two or three years ago Spurs appealed to the PL goals committee to have a goal awarded to Harry Kane when it looked like Eriksen's free kick had gone in directly but Kane claimed it brushed his shoulder on the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is the key. Clubs and FAs alike will sometimes look to exalt their stars even at the expense of their teammates. I suppose that somehow it translates into additional visibility for them.
Ronaldo is setting records on the international stage that, for as long as they stand, will read "(Portugal)" alongside them. My guess is the Portuguese FA want him to notch up as many goals as possible before he retires, especially (though not only) if it's at the World Cup.
posted on 29/11/22
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't remember another example of an FA taking the trouble to appeal to a governing body to have a goal awarded to a different player. Two or three years ago Spurs appealed to the PL goals committee to have a goal awarded to Harry Kane when it looked like Eriksen's free kick had gone in directly but Kane claimed it brushed his shoulder on the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is the key. Clubs and FAs alike will sometimes look to exalt their stars even at the expense of their teammates. I suppose that somehow it translates into additional visibility for them.
Ronaldo is setting records on the international stage that, for as long as they stand, will read "(Portugal)" alongside them. My guess is the Portuguese FA want him to notch up as many goals as possible before he retires, especially (though not only) if it's at the World Cup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it might just be that Ronaldo has too much influence they have to do this.
posted on 29/11/22
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/11/22
comment by Zacab (U18502)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 56 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
Has similar happened before that we can compare with or is this the only example?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't remember another example of an FA taking the trouble to appeal to a governing body to have a goal awarded to a different player. Two or three years ago Spurs appealed to the PL goals committee to have a goal awarded to Harry Kane when it looked like Eriksen's free kick had gone in directly but Kane claimed it brushed his shoulder on the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is the key. Clubs and FAs alike will sometimes look to exalt their stars even at the expense of their teammates. I suppose that somehow it translates into additional visibility for them.
Ronaldo is setting records on the international stage that, for as long as they stand, will read "(Portugal)" alongside them. My guess is the Portuguese FA want him to notch up as many goals as possible before he retires, especially (though not only) if it's at the World Cup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it might just be that Ronaldo has too much influence they have to do this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s something along these lines with both parties having aligned agendas. What’s good for Ronaldo is good for the Portuguese FA at this stage.
My initial query was wondering if this type of process happens more often than we realise but because it’s not Ronaldo, we don’t hear about it perhaps.
Ronaldo pushing for this completely matches his personality type of being extremely driven for individual success, team success is a second priority. Goal scorers are often like this. I remember Rio saying this about Ruud, he’d be really pssed off even if United won but because HE didn’t score.
posted on 29/11/22
SatNav, there's a degree of difference IMO between a striker being pssed off at not scoring and one being so pssed off about the stats not giving him credit for perceived contribution that he wants to take the stat off a team mate.
In the first instance I can just about say that such single-mindedness about impacting on the game can be positive. In the second instance, there's no substantive difference for the team, it's not about evaluating his contribution in a potentially self-critical way like RVN's anger. It's just vanity.
Page 1 of 2