Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do but if we go on success then it's Dani Alves
Messi is the GOAT, in terms of other positions, arent there GOAT midfielders and GOAT keepers. I thought Xavi was a GOAT for a long time, and Yashin is a GOAT keeper
What is the equivalent in other industries? Music? The lead singer usually gets all the credit when they may not even be the most important person when it comes to the success of the band.
At the end of the day, these are entertainment industries and these are the people delivering the entertainment at the point of consumption. Scoring the goals, singing the songs. They are the ones pulling on the emotions of the people consuming the entertainment. Goals trigger emotions. We are simple beings. Controlling the midfield does not provide us with the simple moment of exhilaration that we crave. The catch of the prey with the arrow. Watching the bow being made doesn't give us that same pleasure.
More than just the goals etc for me. It’s about skill, ability to beat a man, dribbling etc. Everything that makes the game exciting and entertaining. It’s why I prefer Messi to Ronaldo, and why the likes of George Best will always be remembered.
Messi is not the greatest of all time
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 45 seconds ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's subjective.
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 5 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pele for me. Messi in the top five though.
Unfortunately both Ronaldo and Messi of the 21st century have made everyone forget the great players of the 20th century.
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 4 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know you think it's Maradona and that's fair enough, I'm too young to have seen him.
The question I would always ask though is how an attacker who's best scoring season in Europe is 23 goals is better than a guy who's scored 91 goals in a calendar year and had plenty of 50+ goals seasons?
I know it's not all about goals and stats but Messi is more than just that.
On the whole, those more creative types prefer Messi. Those with more of a black and white logical mind often prefer Ronaldo. So you end up with arguments about stats because it is the only way they can be compared without bringing in the way they make you feel which is harder to quantify. The same is true with midfielders. Lampard has far more goals than Iniesta for example. But Iniesta was much more of a joy to watch.
Like if you were debating the best singer of all time and you looked at who sold the most records and not the actual songs and performances themselves. That would just be stupid.
Some things can't even be explained, they just are.
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 5 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pele for me. Messi in the top five though.
Unfortunately both Ronaldo and Messi of the 21st century have made everyone forget the great players of the 20th century.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch Pele a lot did ya Sandy?
comment by 🏴 (U9094)
posted 11 minutes ago
More than just the goals etc for me. It’s about skill, ability to beat a man, dribbling etc. Everything that makes the game exciting and entertaining. It’s why I prefer Messi to Ronaldo, and why the likes of George Best will always be remembered.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it's more based on all round entertainment value, Ronaldinho is my goat then!
Pele still numero uno - but if Messi wins the Cup on Sunday, then he becomes #1
Although, if Mbappe wins his second Cup at age 23, he will be on GOAT pace
Maradona and CR7 are not really in the GOAT discussion because they’re basically just slightly worse versions of Messi & Pele respectively. A bit like how Kobe can never be GOAT because of Mike.
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 43 seconds ago
Pele still numero uno - but if Messi wins the Cup on Sunday, then he becomes #1
Although, if Mbappe wins his second Cup at age 23, he will be on GOAT pace
Maradona and CR7 are not really in the GOAT discussion because they’re basically just slightly worse versions of Messi & Pele respectively. A bit like how Kobe can never be GOAT because of Mike.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mbappe would still be a long way off. Varane would become the GOAT by that logic.
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 21 minutes ago
Der Kaiser?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Kaiser?
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 10 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is to a certain generation, the problem with that generation is they find it hard to accept differing views to theirs as they’ve only really grown up during the messi era so have been force fed Messi by Sky, Xbox, PlayStation etc
If you simplify it and just ask "who is the greatest footballer of all time?" Messi is a better footballer than Pele was. It should be that simple.
As it is a team game, what someone has won with teams isn't necessarily a true reflection of how good they are individually. It is important to just look at the individual and how good at football they are personally.
Messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo. But Ronaldo has more CL and has played in lots of different leagues. Yeah but Messi is a better footballer. Yeah but, no but.
But no.
But also yes.
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 10 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is to a certain generation, the problem with that generation is they find it hard to accept differing views to theirs as they’ve only really grown up during the messi era so have been force fed Messi by Sky, Xbox, PlayStation etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could also flip that and say the older generation always think their generation was better.
It happens a lot with topics like music too. Even at my age in my early 30's I find it that way.
In answer to the OP, that's how it's always talked about, but I don't see why it should be the case.
For some time our best, and most exciting player was Bryan Robson. An example that I'm sure is often followed. I dare say Hoddle was the best at Spurs, but not on goal stats.
Going even more back on the pitch, how about Rio, or Irwin at fullback, he was the best player at Oldham.
Now I'm not saying these are a Goat, just to show it is not essential to be a forward, and goal scorer.
Duncan was a great player, another example.
And loads from different leagues I don't know.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 10 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is to a certain generation, the problem with that generation is they find it hard to accept differing views to theirs as they’ve only really grown up during the messi era so have been force fed Messi by Sky, Xbox, PlayStation etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could also flip that and say the older generation always think their generation was better.
It happens a lot with topics like music too. Even at my age in my early 30's I find it that way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s true to a point but the Messites can’t just leave it when you tell them Maradona was better, they always bring up his stats when he played in that great Barca side
It’s like, he played in a far more successful side nearly all his career so he’s better
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 10 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is to a certain generation, the problem with that generation is they find it hard to accept differing views to theirs as they’ve only really grown up during the messi era so have been force fed Messi by Sky, Xbox, PlayStation etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could also flip that and say the older generation always think their generation was better.
It happens a lot with topics like music too. Even at my age in my early 30's I find it that way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s true to a point but the Messites can’t just leave it when you tell them Maradona was better, they always bring up his stats when he played in that great Barca side
It’s like, he played in a far more successful side nearly all his career so he’s better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that's the case for many. I've never seen Maradona live but in his highlights I've never seen him do anything Messi couldn't.
I just find it hard to believe Maradona could have been better than Messi when he scored a fraction of the goals. Not saying it's all down to stats btw.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 43 seconds ago
Pele still numero uno - but if Messi wins the Cup on Sunday, then he becomes #1
Although, if Mbappe wins his second Cup at age 23, he will be on GOAT pace
Maradona and CR7 are not really in the GOAT discussion because they’re basically just slightly worse versions of Messi & Pele respectively. A bit like how Kobe can never be GOAT because of Mike.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mbappe would still be a long way off. Varane would become the GOAT by that logic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Varane wins a second Cup, then he would be in the discussion for GOAT CB.
A defensive player can never be the overall GOAT, but with 2 WCs and 4 UCLs, he’d be up there with Beckanbauer and Ramos in the conversation for best defender.
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 21 minutes ago
Pele still numero uno - but if Messi wins the Cup on Sunday, then he becomes #1
Although, if Mbappe wins his second Cup at age 23, he will be on GOAT pace
Maradona and CR7 are not really in the GOAT discussion because they’re basically just slightly worse versions of Messi & Pele respectively. A bit like how Kobe can never be GOAT because of Mike.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
idiotic as always
Plus there’s that constant need nowadays to label someone the goat, why can’t people just say “Messi is the best player I’ve seen in my lifetime”?
There’s this thing where he has to be the greatest of all time despite a lot of these people never having watched any of the others as they weren’t even born then
Sign in if you want to comment
Could a non attacker be considered the goat
Page 1 of 3
posted on 14/12/22
Agree
Is all stoopid
posted on 14/12/22
Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do but if we go on success then it's Dani Alves
posted on 14/12/22
Messi is the GOAT, in terms of other positions, arent there GOAT midfielders and GOAT keepers. I thought Xavi was a GOAT for a long time, and Yashin is a GOAT keeper
posted on 14/12/22
What is the equivalent in other industries? Music? The lead singer usually gets all the credit when they may not even be the most important person when it comes to the success of the band.
At the end of the day, these are entertainment industries and these are the people delivering the entertainment at the point of consumption. Scoring the goals, singing the songs. They are the ones pulling on the emotions of the people consuming the entertainment. Goals trigger emotions. We are simple beings. Controlling the midfield does not provide us with the simple moment of exhilaration that we crave. The catch of the prey with the arrow. Watching the bow being made doesn't give us that same pleasure.
posted on 14/12/22
Der Kaiser?
posted on 14/12/22
More than just the goals etc for me. It’s about skill, ability to beat a man, dribbling etc. Everything that makes the game exciting and entertaining. It’s why I prefer Messi to Ronaldo, and why the likes of George Best will always be remembered.
posted on 14/12/22
Messi is not the greatest of all time
posted on 14/12/22
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 45 seconds ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's subjective.
posted on 14/12/22
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 5 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pele for me. Messi in the top five though.
Unfortunately both Ronaldo and Messi of the 21st century have made everyone forget the great players of the 20th century.
posted on 14/12/22
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 4 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know you think it's Maradona and that's fair enough, I'm too young to have seen him.
The question I would always ask though is how an attacker who's best scoring season in Europe is 23 goals is better than a guy who's scored 91 goals in a calendar year and had plenty of 50+ goals seasons?
I know it's not all about goals and stats but Messi is more than just that.
posted on 14/12/22
On the whole, those more creative types prefer Messi. Those with more of a black and white logical mind often prefer Ronaldo. So you end up with arguments about stats because it is the only way they can be compared without bringing in the way they make you feel which is harder to quantify. The same is true with midfielders. Lampard has far more goals than Iniesta for example. But Iniesta was much more of a joy to watch.
Like if you were debating the best singer of all time and you looked at who sold the most records and not the actual songs and performances themselves. That would just be stupid.
Some things can't even be explained, they just are.
posted on 14/12/22
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 5 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pele for me. Messi in the top five though.
Unfortunately both Ronaldo and Messi of the 21st century have made everyone forget the great players of the 20th century.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch Pele a lot did ya Sandy?
posted on 14/12/22
comment by 🏴 (U9094)
posted 11 minutes ago
More than just the goals etc for me. It’s about skill, ability to beat a man, dribbling etc. Everything that makes the game exciting and entertaining. It’s why I prefer Messi to Ronaldo, and why the likes of George Best will always be remembered.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it's more based on all round entertainment value, Ronaldinho is my goat then!
posted on 14/12/22
Pele still numero uno - but if Messi wins the Cup on Sunday, then he becomes #1
Although, if Mbappe wins his second Cup at age 23, he will be on GOAT pace
Maradona and CR7 are not really in the GOAT discussion because they’re basically just slightly worse versions of Messi & Pele respectively. A bit like how Kobe can never be GOAT because of Mike.
posted on 14/12/22
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 43 seconds ago
Pele still numero uno - but if Messi wins the Cup on Sunday, then he becomes #1
Although, if Mbappe wins his second Cup at age 23, he will be on GOAT pace
Maradona and CR7 are not really in the GOAT discussion because they’re basically just slightly worse versions of Messi & Pele respectively. A bit like how Kobe can never be GOAT because of Mike.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mbappe would still be a long way off. Varane would become the GOAT by that logic.
posted on 14/12/22
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 21 minutes ago
Der Kaiser?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos Kaiser?
posted on 14/12/22
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 10 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is to a certain generation, the problem with that generation is they find it hard to accept differing views to theirs as they’ve only really grown up during the messi era so have been force fed Messi by Sky, Xbox, PlayStation etc
posted on 14/12/22
If you simplify it and just ask "who is the greatest footballer of all time?" Messi is a better footballer than Pele was. It should be that simple.
As it is a team game, what someone has won with teams isn't necessarily a true reflection of how good they are individually. It is important to just look at the individual and how good at football they are personally.
Messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo. But Ronaldo has more CL and has played in lots of different leagues. Yeah but Messi is a better footballer. Yeah but, no but.
But no.
But also yes.
posted on 14/12/22
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 10 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is to a certain generation, the problem with that generation is they find it hard to accept differing views to theirs as they’ve only really grown up during the messi era so have been force fed Messi by Sky, Xbox, PlayStation etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could also flip that and say the older generation always think their generation was better.
It happens a lot with topics like music too. Even at my age in my early 30's I find it that way.
posted on 14/12/22
In answer to the OP, that's how it's always talked about, but I don't see why it should be the case.
For some time our best, and most exciting player was Bryan Robson. An example that I'm sure is often followed. I dare say Hoddle was the best at Spurs, but not on goal stats.
Going even more back on the pitch, how about Rio, or Irwin at fullback, he was the best player at Oldham.
Now I'm not saying these are a Goat, just to show it is not essential to be a forward, and goal scorer.
Duncan was a great player, another example.
And loads from different leagues I don't know.
posted on 14/12/22
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 10 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is to a certain generation, the problem with that generation is they find it hard to accept differing views to theirs as they’ve only really grown up during the messi era so have been force fed Messi by Sky, Xbox, PlayStation etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could also flip that and say the older generation always think their generation was better.
It happens a lot with topics like music too. Even at my age in my early 30's I find it that way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s true to a point but the Messites can’t just leave it when you tell them Maradona was better, they always bring up his stats when he played in that great Barca side
It’s like, he played in a far more successful side nearly all his career so he’s better
posted on 14/12/22
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 10 minutes ago
Messi is not the greatest of all time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is to a certain generation, the problem with that generation is they find it hard to accept differing views to theirs as they’ve only really grown up during the messi era so have been force fed Messi by Sky, Xbox, PlayStation etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You could also flip that and say the older generation always think their generation was better.
It happens a lot with topics like music too. Even at my age in my early 30's I find it that way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s true to a point but the Messites can’t just leave it when you tell them Maradona was better, they always bring up his stats when he played in that great Barca side
It’s like, he played in a far more successful side nearly all his career so he’s better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that's the case for many. I've never seen Maradona live but in his highlights I've never seen him do anything Messi couldn't.
I just find it hard to believe Maradona could have been better than Messi when he scored a fraction of the goals. Not saying it's all down to stats btw.
posted on 14/12/22
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 43 seconds ago
Pele still numero uno - but if Messi wins the Cup on Sunday, then he becomes #1
Although, if Mbappe wins his second Cup at age 23, he will be on GOAT pace
Maradona and CR7 are not really in the GOAT discussion because they’re basically just slightly worse versions of Messi & Pele respectively. A bit like how Kobe can never be GOAT because of Mike.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mbappe would still be a long way off. Varane would become the GOAT by that logic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Varane wins a second Cup, then he would be in the discussion for GOAT CB.
A defensive player can never be the overall GOAT, but with 2 WCs and 4 UCLs, he’d be up there with Beckanbauer and Ramos in the conversation for best defender.
posted on 14/12/22
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 21 minutes ago
Pele still numero uno - but if Messi wins the Cup on Sunday, then he becomes #1
Although, if Mbappe wins his second Cup at age 23, he will be on GOAT pace
Maradona and CR7 are not really in the GOAT discussion because they’re basically just slightly worse versions of Messi & Pele respectively. A bit like how Kobe can never be GOAT because of Mike.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
idiotic as always
posted on 14/12/22
Plus there’s that constant need nowadays to label someone the goat, why can’t people just say “Messi is the best player I’ve seen in my lifetime”?
There’s this thing where he has to be the greatest of all time despite a lot of these people never having watched any of the others as they weren’t even born then
Page 1 of 3