comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 30 minutes ago
Apparently, Pep has made it clear that if ever any cheating is proven against City, he would walk. Surely, with this charge now, what else does Pep need to go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well... Presumably the final verdict. You've said it yourself - he'd walk if cheating were proven. They've only been charged at this stage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep will always have his time at Barca. Before he got his hands grubby.
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
comment by Thorgen son of Kloppin - Mjolnir... To me! (U1282)
posted 24 minutes ago
You are spot on Sandy. The other clubs must pool together and appoint a lawyer to appear on their behalf before the independent commission to ensure justice is done. This will ensure the City owners cannot bribe everyone, and our lawyer will hold out.
I might write to them to offer my services for free, so we can bury these cheats six feet under.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thorgen, to be honest I don`t even know why an Independent commission is being set up. They are already banged to rights. One breach could be a mistake, even maybe two or three. But 100 plus breaches is on an industrial scale of trying to get around the rules.
The Prem should show some balls and just punish them, now.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
comment by Striketeam7 - the smartest person you know - Bronze medal khunt 2022 - Buy..Bellingham and another mid 20s Thiago type...lets just call him "frank" (U18109)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Thorgen son of Kloppin - Mjolnir... To me! (U1282)
posted 12 minutes ago
You are spot on Sandy. The other clubs must pool together and appoint a lawyer to appear on their behalf before the independent commission to ensure justice is done. This will ensure the City owners cannot bribe everyone, and our lawyer will hold out.
I might write to them to offer my services for free, so we can bury these cheats six feet under.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A very tempting offer for them I’m sure - I mean all the worlds top lawyers spend their days on JA606
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You never know who is behind the user name mate. Easy to spend your days on JA606 when you're so top lawyer that you have other top lawyers working for you. My job is to think now, and nobody does that better then me.
I use encrypted email, proxies and a borrowed FB account password to access content on the internet as people could ID me because many might have heard of me and a Google search would blow my cover.
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 28 minutes ago
You'd think if City did get kicked out then they'd come out swinging even harder for the Euro Super League. Juventus too considering their current issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck with that.
If they're kicked out the other Super League clubs in England will not want to hear anything about the Super League for a looooong time. One reason they were going along is because of being in the financial shadow of City. Don't forget the Super League promised strict regulation of finances, even wage and transfer caps etc.
I like how fans of PL clubs take a moral high ground when the super league is mentioned. Do you not realise, the PL is the super league!?
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Serie A expelled Juventus, arguably their biggest earner and seem to be fine. I don't think expelling City would have the effect you think it would.
In fact, it could strengthen and solidify the league. Don't forget City have next to no fans on the global stage.
It's also worth mentioning that the timing of this is significant. There's government proposals to introduce an independent football regulator, in fact it's legislation now, so I don't think it's a coincidence that the PL choose to flex their muscles at this stage. It's good PR for the PL to show to any new regulator that it can crack the whip in-house. A lot of this could all be political posturing to retain power and not lose strength in the face of regulation.
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 10 minutes ago
Taking away their titles during that period is pointless as, from a legal point of view, you could never prove the financial irregularities led to them winning. They'd be wasting their time.
It feels like some sort of future points reduction (which will only slightly hurt them for a season or two) maybe a transfer ban and expulsion from Europe for a season?
If it's a slap on the wrist I think that signals a new era of football that won't interest me too much. It's already bad enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fines or a few points deduction would mean nothing. They would surely have to be thrown out of the Prem, and not just down to the Championship, down to the bottom. It has to take them several years minimum to get back to the Prem.
If and when they do return, then a five year European and Transfer ban could then come into force.
It has to be severe, otherwise others will do exactly the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree but I cant see expulsion happening even if it is deserved. This will rumble on for years.
Do we even know what they've done wrong yet? I guess once that's known we'll know what the severity could be. The fact they don't seem bothered probably tells it's own story.
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 17 minutes ago
Apparently, Pep has made it clear that if ever any cheating is proven against City, he would walk. Surely, with this charge now, what else does Pep need to go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed stack the chips massively in your favour and still no champions league title.
If he has any integrity or decorum he will walk.
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is you can't ignore the past when applying rules. The fact remains that the punishment for irregular payments to Spurs players back in the day, which is all part of the same 'cooking the books' scenario City are being accused of, amounted to nothing more than a fine upon appeal. The scale of it is kind of irrelevant, or at least it is from a legal standpoint. If Spurs got a fine, and a fine alone for the same thing on a smaller scale, then you could argue that City should be only fined for a larger sum. You might find that annoying but those are the facts.
Interesting article on the original Spurs case...
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-tottenham-win-sixpoint-victory-sugar-is-sweet-and-sour-over-fa-verdict-1412298.html
OP, it's not for the other PL clubs to judge, they're jobs are to look after their own clubs.
The PL are the ones who have authority to take action.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is you can't ignore the past when applying rules. The fact remains that the punishment for irregular payments to Spurs players back in the day, which is all part of the same 'cooking the books' scenario City are being accused of, amounted to nothing more than a fine upon appeal. The scale of it is kind of irrelevant, or at least it is from a legal standpoint. If Spurs got a fine, and a fine alone for the same thing on a smaller scale, then you could argue that City should be only fined for a larger sum. You might find that annoying but those are the facts.
Interesting article on the original Spurs case...
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-tottenham-win-sixpoint-victory-sugar-is-sweet-and-sour-over-fa-verdict-1412298.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That argument would be flawed IMO.
In an assault, you can get a fine for slapping your neighbour, but if you put them in the ICU then you're probably going to jail for a while.
So the severity of the offence matters, the consequence or result of the offence matters, the length of time the offence was committed matters and the number of times it was committed as well. There are factors in play.
Under that context, you can't really compare what Spurs did to what City have done over the last decade or so. All the factors are different and do not carry the same weight.
comment by Thorgen son of Kloppin - Mjolnir... To me! (U1282)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Serie A expelled Juventus, arguably their biggest earner and seem to be fine. I don't think expelling City would have the effect you think it would.
In fact, it could strengthen and solidify the league. Don't forget City have next to no fans on the global stage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could be wrong but I do not think there is any right to appeal if the Clubs vote for City to be kicked out. Who would they appeal to? The PL do not answer to the FA, I suppose they might be able to appeal to the PL’s governing body, Uefa, however I think they would have very little chance of Aleksander Čeferin & Co showing any sympathy for City’s plight 🤔🤬
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 10 minutes ago
Taking away their titles during that period is pointless as, from a legal point of view, you could never prove the financial irregularities led to them winning. They'd be wasting their time.
It feels like some sort of future points reduction (which will only slightly hurt them for a season or two) maybe a transfer ban and expulsion from Europe for a season?
If it's a slap on the wrist I think that signals a new era of football that won't interest me too much. It's already bad enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fines or a few points deduction would mean nothing. They would surely have to be thrown out of the Prem, and not just down to the Championship, down to the bottom. It has to take them several years minimum to get back to the Prem.
If and when they do return, then a five year European and Transfer ban could then come into force.
It has to be severe, otherwise others will do exactly the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree but I cant see expulsion happening even if it is deserved. This will rumble on for years.
Do we even know what they've done wrong yet? I guess once that's known we'll know what the severity could be. The fact they don't seem bothered probably tells it's own story.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How did you expect City to react? They have to put on a strong face in this and that is what they are doing
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 35 minutes ago
OP, it's not for the other PL clubs to judge, they're jobs are to look after their own clubs.
The PL are the ones who have authority to take action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually all the PL clubs have voting rights and they could decide to either expel City or just fine them. These are part of the PL rules framework.
comment by Thorgen son of Kloppin - Mjolnir... To me! (U1282)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is you can't ignore the past when applying rules. The fact remains that the punishment for irregular payments to Spurs players back in the day, which is all part of the same 'cooking the books' scenario City are being accused of, amounted to nothing more than a fine upon appeal. The scale of it is kind of irrelevant, or at least it is from a legal standpoint. If Spurs got a fine, and a fine alone for the same thing on a smaller scale, then you could argue that City should be only fined for a larger sum. You might find that annoying but those are the facts.
Interesting article on the original Spurs case...
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-tottenham-win-sixpoint-victory-sugar-is-sweet-and-sour-over-fa-verdict-1412298.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That argument would be flawed IMO.
In an assault, you can get a fine for slapping your neighbour, but if you put them in the ICU then you're probably going to jail for a while.
So the severity of the offence matters, the consequence or result of the offence matters, the length of time the offence was committed matters and the number of times it was committed as well. There are factors in play.
Under that context, you can't really compare what Spurs did to what City have done over the last decade or so. All the factors are different and do not carry the same weight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get what you're saying but you've used an analogy that I don't think can be used to compare punishments. Sure, putting someone in the ICU is a more severe version of slapping a neighbour, so I understand the trail of breadcrumbs in that respect, but because one is a financial crime and the other is violent and an immediate threat to life, the two can't be measured in the same way. Inhumanity will always be judged more severely so the punishment will never run parallel with financial misdemeanours. It never happens.
I do think the regularity and scale of the offence matters but I think, in the end, it'll amount to a greater fine rather than severe punishments like expulsion from the league. I think we all know that won't happen.
OK, what if I use a financial crime to demonstrate the same point. Like one instance of a tax offence would have less severe consequences than repeated offences over a 10 year period. The latter is aggravated.
I could use almost any offence, financial or otherwise to demonstrate the point, which is that offences are not the same. There are other details that determine the severity of the offence and therefore the severity of the punishment. That applies in this Spurs vs City instance IMO.
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
OP, it's not for the other PL clubs to judge, they're jobs are to look after their own clubs.
The PL are the ones who have authority to take action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if their action affects other Prem clubs then they will rightly be aggrieved.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 28 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is you can't ignore the past when applying rules. The fact remains that the punishment for irregular payments to Spurs players back in the day, which is all part of the same 'cooking the books' scenario City are being accused of, amounted to nothing more than a fine upon appeal. The scale of it is kind of irrelevant, or at least it is from a legal standpoint. If Spurs got a fine, and a fine alone for the same thing on a smaller scale, then you could argue that City should be only fined for a larger sum. You might find that annoying but those are the facts.
Interesting article on the original Spurs case...
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-tottenham-win-sixpoint-victory-sugar-is-sweet-and-sour-over-fa-verdict-1412298.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it matters. Spurs may have committed a couple of offences over a season. City have committed over 100 over a very long period.
You wouldn't sentence a murderer to the same sentence for someone that had committed a traffic offence.
There is a massive, massive difference between Spurs under Scholar and City and their owners.
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
OP, it's not for the other PL clubs to judge, they're jobs are to look after their own clubs.
The PL are the ones who have authority to take action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if their action affects other Prem clubs then they will rightly be aggrieved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A decision of this nature will probably have to be put to a vote. Not sure if the other clubs will have the guts to go through with it.
Hope city win any legal battle so we can end this nonsensical FFP crap.
comment by Cinciwolf---A Scottish world champion and Messi the goat. (U11551)
posted 13 minutes ago
Hope city win any legal battle so we can end this nonsensical FFP crap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given there are 100 odd charges inconceivable they will be admonished of them all.
Football governance is long due an overhaul to help protect its long-term financial stability. To mitigate the collapse of smaller clubs, and issues such as the failed European super league project. And advanced due diligence on ownership structures.
Understand a white paper is due to be published by the government this month on regulatory reforms.
Sign in if you want to comment
Will the other Premiership clubs
Page 2 of 3
posted on 8/2/23
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 30 minutes ago
Apparently, Pep has made it clear that if ever any cheating is proven against City, he would walk. Surely, with this charge now, what else does Pep need to go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well... Presumably the final verdict. You've said it yourself - he'd walk if cheating were proven. They've only been charged at this stage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep will always have his time at Barca. Before he got his hands grubby.
posted on 8/2/23
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by Thorgen son of Kloppin - Mjolnir... To me! (U1282)
posted 24 minutes ago
You are spot on Sandy. The other clubs must pool together and appoint a lawyer to appear on their behalf before the independent commission to ensure justice is done. This will ensure the City owners cannot bribe everyone, and our lawyer will hold out.
I might write to them to offer my services for free, so we can bury these cheats six feet under.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thorgen, to be honest I don`t even know why an Independent commission is being set up. They are already banged to rights. One breach could be a mistake, even maybe two or three. But 100 plus breaches is on an industrial scale of trying to get around the rules.
The Prem should show some balls and just punish them, now.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by Striketeam7 - the smartest person you know - Bronze medal khunt 2022 - Buy..Bellingham and another mid 20s Thiago type...lets just call him "frank" (U18109)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Thorgen son of Kloppin - Mjolnir... To me! (U1282)
posted 12 minutes ago
You are spot on Sandy. The other clubs must pool together and appoint a lawyer to appear on their behalf before the independent commission to ensure justice is done. This will ensure the City owners cannot bribe everyone, and our lawyer will hold out.
I might write to them to offer my services for free, so we can bury these cheats six feet under.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A very tempting offer for them I’m sure - I mean all the worlds top lawyers spend their days on JA606
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You never know who is behind the user name mate. Easy to spend your days on JA606 when you're so top lawyer that you have other top lawyers working for you. My job is to think now, and nobody does that better then me.
I use encrypted email, proxies and a borrowed FB account password to access content on the internet as people could ID me because many might have heard of me and a Google search would blow my cover.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 28 minutes ago
You'd think if City did get kicked out then they'd come out swinging even harder for the Euro Super League. Juventus too considering their current issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck with that.
If they're kicked out the other Super League clubs in England will not want to hear anything about the Super League for a looooong time. One reason they were going along is because of being in the financial shadow of City. Don't forget the Super League promised strict regulation of finances, even wage and transfer caps etc.
posted on 8/2/23
I like how fans of PL clubs take a moral high ground when the super league is mentioned. Do you not realise, the PL is the super league!?
posted on 8/2/23
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Serie A expelled Juventus, arguably their biggest earner and seem to be fine. I don't think expelling City would have the effect you think it would.
In fact, it could strengthen and solidify the league. Don't forget City have next to no fans on the global stage.
posted on 8/2/23
It's also worth mentioning that the timing of this is significant. There's government proposals to introduce an independent football regulator, in fact it's legislation now, so I don't think it's a coincidence that the PL choose to flex their muscles at this stage. It's good PR for the PL to show to any new regulator that it can crack the whip in-house. A lot of this could all be political posturing to retain power and not lose strength in the face of regulation.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 10 minutes ago
Taking away their titles during that period is pointless as, from a legal point of view, you could never prove the financial irregularities led to them winning. They'd be wasting their time.
It feels like some sort of future points reduction (which will only slightly hurt them for a season or two) maybe a transfer ban and expulsion from Europe for a season?
If it's a slap on the wrist I think that signals a new era of football that won't interest me too much. It's already bad enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fines or a few points deduction would mean nothing. They would surely have to be thrown out of the Prem, and not just down to the Championship, down to the bottom. It has to take them several years minimum to get back to the Prem.
If and when they do return, then a five year European and Transfer ban could then come into force.
It has to be severe, otherwise others will do exactly the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree but I cant see expulsion happening even if it is deserved. This will rumble on for years.
Do we even know what they've done wrong yet? I guess once that's known we'll know what the severity could be. The fact they don't seem bothered probably tells it's own story.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 17 minutes ago
Apparently, Pep has made it clear that if ever any cheating is proven against City, he would walk. Surely, with this charge now, what else does Pep need to go?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed stack the chips massively in your favour and still no champions league title.
If he has any integrity or decorum he will walk.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is you can't ignore the past when applying rules. The fact remains that the punishment for irregular payments to Spurs players back in the day, which is all part of the same 'cooking the books' scenario City are being accused of, amounted to nothing more than a fine upon appeal. The scale of it is kind of irrelevant, or at least it is from a legal standpoint. If Spurs got a fine, and a fine alone for the same thing on a smaller scale, then you could argue that City should be only fined for a larger sum. You might find that annoying but those are the facts.
Interesting article on the original Spurs case...
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-tottenham-win-sixpoint-victory-sugar-is-sweet-and-sour-over-fa-verdict-1412298.html
posted on 8/2/23
OP, it's not for the other PL clubs to judge, they're jobs are to look after their own clubs.
The PL are the ones who have authority to take action.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is you can't ignore the past when applying rules. The fact remains that the punishment for irregular payments to Spurs players back in the day, which is all part of the same 'cooking the books' scenario City are being accused of, amounted to nothing more than a fine upon appeal. The scale of it is kind of irrelevant, or at least it is from a legal standpoint. If Spurs got a fine, and a fine alone for the same thing on a smaller scale, then you could argue that City should be only fined for a larger sum. You might find that annoying but those are the facts.
Interesting article on the original Spurs case...
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-tottenham-win-sixpoint-victory-sugar-is-sweet-and-sour-over-fa-verdict-1412298.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That argument would be flawed IMO.
In an assault, you can get a fine for slapping your neighbour, but if you put them in the ICU then you're probably going to jail for a while.
So the severity of the offence matters, the consequence or result of the offence matters, the length of time the offence was committed matters and the number of times it was committed as well. There are factors in play.
Under that context, you can't really compare what Spurs did to what City have done over the last decade or so. All the factors are different and do not carry the same weight.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by Thorgen son of Kloppin - Mjolnir... To me! (U1282)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Serie A expelled Juventus, arguably their biggest earner and seem to be fine. I don't think expelling City would have the effect you think it would.
In fact, it could strengthen and solidify the league. Don't forget City have next to no fans on the global stage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I could be wrong but I do not think there is any right to appeal if the Clubs vote for City to be kicked out. Who would they appeal to? The PL do not answer to the FA, I suppose they might be able to appeal to the PL’s governing body, Uefa, however I think they would have very little chance of Aleksander Čeferin & Co showing any sympathy for City’s plight 🤔🤬
posted on 8/2/23
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
comment by Hawkeye78 (U22468)
posted 10 minutes ago
Taking away their titles during that period is pointless as, from a legal point of view, you could never prove the financial irregularities led to them winning. They'd be wasting their time.
It feels like some sort of future points reduction (which will only slightly hurt them for a season or two) maybe a transfer ban and expulsion from Europe for a season?
If it's a slap on the wrist I think that signals a new era of football that won't interest me too much. It's already bad enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fines or a few points deduction would mean nothing. They would surely have to be thrown out of the Prem, and not just down to the Championship, down to the bottom. It has to take them several years minimum to get back to the Prem.
If and when they do return, then a five year European and Transfer ban could then come into force.
It has to be severe, otherwise others will do exactly the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree but I cant see expulsion happening even if it is deserved. This will rumble on for years.
Do we even know what they've done wrong yet? I guess once that's known we'll know what the severity could be. The fact they don't seem bothered probably tells it's own story.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How did you expect City to react? They have to put on a strong face in this and that is what they are doing
posted on 8/2/23
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 35 minutes ago
OP, it's not for the other PL clubs to judge, they're jobs are to look after their own clubs.
The PL are the ones who have authority to take action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually all the PL clubs have voting rights and they could decide to either expel City or just fine them. These are part of the PL rules framework.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by Thorgen son of Kloppin - Mjolnir... To me! (U1282)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is you can't ignore the past when applying rules. The fact remains that the punishment for irregular payments to Spurs players back in the day, which is all part of the same 'cooking the books' scenario City are being accused of, amounted to nothing more than a fine upon appeal. The scale of it is kind of irrelevant, or at least it is from a legal standpoint. If Spurs got a fine, and a fine alone for the same thing on a smaller scale, then you could argue that City should be only fined for a larger sum. You might find that annoying but those are the facts.
Interesting article on the original Spurs case...
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-tottenham-win-sixpoint-victory-sugar-is-sweet-and-sour-over-fa-verdict-1412298.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That argument would be flawed IMO.
In an assault, you can get a fine for slapping your neighbour, but if you put them in the ICU then you're probably going to jail for a while.
So the severity of the offence matters, the consequence or result of the offence matters, the length of time the offence was committed matters and the number of times it was committed as well. There are factors in play.
Under that context, you can't really compare what Spurs did to what City have done over the last decade or so. All the factors are different and do not carry the same weight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I get what you're saying but you've used an analogy that I don't think can be used to compare punishments. Sure, putting someone in the ICU is a more severe version of slapping a neighbour, so I understand the trail of breadcrumbs in that respect, but because one is a financial crime and the other is violent and an immediate threat to life, the two can't be measured in the same way. Inhumanity will always be judged more severely so the punishment will never run parallel with financial misdemeanours. It never happens.
I do think the regularity and scale of the offence matters but I think, in the end, it'll amount to a greater fine rather than severe punishments like expulsion from the league. I think we all know that won't happen.
posted on 8/2/23
OK, what if I use a financial crime to demonstrate the same point. Like one instance of a tax offence would have less severe consequences than repeated offences over a 10 year period. The latter is aggravated.
I could use almost any offence, financial or otherwise to demonstrate the point, which is that offences are not the same. There are other details that determine the severity of the offence and therefore the severity of the punishment. That applies in this Spurs vs City instance IMO.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
OP, it's not for the other PL clubs to judge, they're jobs are to look after their own clubs.
The PL are the ones who have authority to take action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if their action affects other Prem clubs then they will rightly be aggrieved.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 28 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 42 seconds ago
The Premier League aren't stupid. They're fully aware that expulsion of a European powerhouse like City, with all the riches and exposure they create worldwide, hurts them financially. There's not a chance in hell of expulsion from even the PL as the governing body stand to lose too much from sanctioning it.
It'll be a fine, a transfer ban and maybe 6-12pt deduction. That won't affect them. They could still win the league at a canter.
Remember when we had something similar when Irving Scholar was accused of financial misdemeanours. I think we were thrown out of the cup comps and given a 12 point deduction. It got reduced to a fine upon appeal. Even if they get punished, the appeal could see them win in the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are hardly a European powerhouse mate, they haven`t even won the CL despite cheating for a dozen years. The only reason they are anywhere near the top of the Prem is because they have cheated their way there by the sounds of all these allegations.
Comparing Spurs to City is a total nonsense. City have broken the rules on an industrial scale over a number of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The thing is you can't ignore the past when applying rules. The fact remains that the punishment for irregular payments to Spurs players back in the day, which is all part of the same 'cooking the books' scenario City are being accused of, amounted to nothing more than a fine upon appeal. The scale of it is kind of irrelevant, or at least it is from a legal standpoint. If Spurs got a fine, and a fine alone for the same thing on a smaller scale, then you could argue that City should be only fined for a larger sum. You might find that annoying but those are the facts.
Interesting article on the original Spurs case...
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-tottenham-win-sixpoint-victory-sugar-is-sweet-and-sour-over-fa-verdict-1412298.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course it matters. Spurs may have committed a couple of offences over a season. City have committed over 100 over a very long period.
You wouldn't sentence a murderer to the same sentence for someone that had committed a traffic offence.
There is a massive, massive difference between Spurs under Scholar and City and their owners.
posted on 8/2/23
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by AFCISMYTEAM (U14931)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
OP, it's not for the other PL clubs to judge, they're jobs are to look after their own clubs.
The PL are the ones who have authority to take action.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if their action affects other Prem clubs then they will rightly be aggrieved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A decision of this nature will probably have to be put to a vote. Not sure if the other clubs will have the guts to go through with it.
posted on 8/2/23
Hope city win any legal battle so we can end this nonsensical FFP crap.
posted on 8/2/23
Ooooh. Controversial!
posted on 8/2/23
comment by Cinciwolf---A Scottish world champion and Messi the goat. (U11551)
posted 13 minutes ago
Hope city win any legal battle so we can end this nonsensical FFP crap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given there are 100 odd charges inconceivable they will be admonished of them all.
Football governance is long due an overhaul to help protect its long-term financial stability. To mitigate the collapse of smaller clubs, and issues such as the failed European super league project. And advanced due diligence on ownership structures.
Understand a white paper is due to be published by the government this month on regulatory reforms.
Page 2 of 3