Spart, what did you think of Collins last night? I thought he was awful and Dobbin not much better. It's the lack of goal scorers that is letting us down...should have got Martin back!
I noticed that when their right winger scored, our left back was wandering back when he should have been on him, I think Roberts is a poor player even though he scored a good goal.
I was sorry not to see Rooney in the team, he played really well against Salop and it was never a penalty. Last nights was though, White dangled his leg out. Does anyone know whether White is related to Tom Carroll? He plays the same.
You and I seem to be the only ones that say it was a peno VC.
comment by Igòr; League 1, you’ve being Warne-D đđ¤đ¤ (U22200)
posted 16 minutes ago
You and I seem to be the only ones that say it was a peno VC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Plymouth lad would have got all three medals if that had been an Olympic diving contest tho.
Shameless gamesmanship and I'm sick of it.
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted about an hour ago
comment by Igòr; League 1, you’ve being Warne-D đđ¤đ¤ (U22200)
posted 16 minutes ago
You and I seem to be the only ones that say it was a peno VC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Plymouth lad would have got all three medals if that had been an Olympic diving contest tho.
Shameless gamesmanship and I'm sick of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It will never change Scouse, especially when former "pros" condone diving & say it's part of the game.
It’s the inconsistency that grates. I have seen much more stonewall pens not given. It’s possible White’s bootlace touched their player and they caused him to perform a inadvertent pike.
Seriously, if that’s the standard for penalties to be given we might as well give up.
It's the culture that has to change. It is not "professional", it is cheating, weedy and pathetic behaviour. That is the message we need to get across. Stand-up, take the tackle and stop being a fairy.
Ditto time-wasting, abuse, spitting, pulling hair and other such unseemly nonsense.
In terms of what is acceptable and what is not could it be that all televised games have too many ex-pros in the commentary box, all of them more than willing to condone the "professional foul". This has been going on for so long now that this cheating really is part of the game. Should refs spot it more easily? Maybe but the art of conning is now so refined that it needs a top class ref to spot it and they are in very short supply (non-existent in our league). In days of yore I really liked having an ex pro as joint commentator as they could always spot something the main commentator failed to see. Now, when there are cameras at every vantage point the professional commentators see things more often than not so are these extras really needed?
If last night's ref was not sure about the "penalty" he either should not have given it or should have consulted his assistant first. If the assistant was unsure also, then the penalty should not have been given.
In terms of Derby's play I was so disappointed in the lack of controlled football (as demonstrated by P in the second half). We are totally capable of it yet insist on hopeful long punts from defence which just keep coming straight back so obviously that sustained pressure will count in the end. As soon as P got their lucky first I knew we would lose as our defence, lacking real help from midfield, now seems to wilt the longer the game goes on. Maybe Curt should come in and Fozzie move to left back? That would give extra height, strength and experience at the back. Put Rooney at RB if fit and Smith in midfield in place of Hourihane who seems not able to sustain two games in quick succession. I can't see Bird getting 90 mins this Saturday.
While the punishment for simulation in the penalty are is at worst a booking, the benefit is that it can win the game. It is therefore the best option if there appears to be no way through on goal and it is late in the game. If they awarded a penalty against the side simulating then it would stop overnight. There was actual contact on the Plymouth player but not even enough to slow him down. Like on Saturday we have been undone by very iffy penalties.
I too noticed the similarity between White and Tom Carrol. Both flatter to deceive a bit like their parent club.
Tom Carroll has had a good career. Sometimes when a player comes on loan from a big club our expectations are that they are a player of the very highest quality but that might not be the case. I think White is a good player, but not really what we need at the moment.
I agree with VC that Collins was poor when he came on last night, in fact for me he has done little in his cameos for the last few games. The problem Warne has is that Didzy is our best player by a long distance and he daren't rest him, or even substitute him unless he is sure that the game is won. Collins is getting very little time on the pitch, and he looks rusty and as if he is trying too hard to make an impression. He is giving away a lot of free-kicks by barging into defenders and his touch has been poor. I think that he might act as a decent foil for Didzy in a front two, but we don't really have midfielders who are up to the task of playing in a pair in the way that, say, Van der Laan and Darryl Powell did, or Carsley and Eranio.
Warne has got to make the most of what he's got but it's become clear that we are too lacking in certain areas to be serious contenders this season. I agree with Spart that we if we do make the play-offs we might struggle but you never know. Warne certainly has a track record in that department and as we saw at Leeds, almost anything can happen once the pressure cranks up.
I agree Collins has been really poor of late, it’s hardly believable that he is our second highest scorer with nine in all competitions, so he can do it at times!
The trouble with punishing players for diving (why have we started calling it simulation?) is the same as with giving penalties - the ref might get it wrong. If Spart's idea was introduced we would probably end up having a penalty given against us that should have been given for us and effectively be two goals worse off than we should have been. I just think that the ref needs to have a higher threshold for giving a penalty than for other parts of the pitch and only point to the spot if he is absolutely certain. I know some fans say "a foul is a foul" but the reality is that there is a subjectivity to offences, as with last night's decision. My younger son thinks that indirect free-kicks rather than penalties should be awarded inside the box, at least for some offences, which is an interesting idea. It seems unfair that what can be a minor or questionable foul can decide the entire outcome of the game.
Foul inside the box but no immediate threat to goal - indirect free-kick
Foul denying clear goal-scoring opportunity - penalty
Foul denying clear goal e.g. handball on the line - give a goal.
Re Collins, yes he has been bang average recently - not controlling the ball, not winning headers, not getting in the box enough but to be fair, when did he last get 90 minutes in? I agree with someone who said he could be trying too hard given his lack of opportunity and I suspect he would be much better with AN other next to him (which would mean Didzy) but then what do you do with midfield or do you only play one winger? Let's be even fairer and question M-L's recent performances - nowhere near as good as a few months back but then I'm sure that he is now very closely marked and not by just one defender. The hard facts are that we have gone backwards since Bird's injury and that just highlights our lack of squad depth and lack of players in the mid-twenties age range as all these games are now catching up on our older guys.
With the best will in the world we cannot expect White to be the answer.
I am always hesitant when people talk of rule changes but Vidal's suggestions are worth looking at as very often the award of a penalty seems totally disproportionate to the offence - eg, an innocent handball in the box but well away from the goal itself. The new rule allowing a penalty for hand or arm contact when the offender just cannot get out of the way of a point blank blast can be horribly unfair.
comment by Chicagoram (U22653)
posted 7 hours, 39 minutes ago
Re Collins, yes he has been bang average recently - not controlling the ball, not winning headers, not getting in the box enough but to be fair, when did he last get 90 minutes in? I agree with someone who said he could be trying too hard given his lack of opportunity and I suspect he would be much better with AN other next to him (which would mean Didzy) but then what do you do with midfield or do you only play one winger? Let's be even fairer and question M-L's recent performances - nowhere near as good as a few months back but then I'm sure that he is now very closely marked and not by just one defender. The hard facts are that we have gone backwards since Bird's injury and that just highlights our lack of squad depth and lack of players in the mid-twenties age range as all these games are now catching up on our older guys.
With the best will in the world we cannot expect White to be the answer.
I am always hesitant when people talk of rule changes but Vidal's suggestions are worth looking at as very often the award of a penalty seems totally disproportionate to the offence - eg, an innocent handball in the box but well away from the goal itself. The new rule allowing a penalty for hand or arm contact when the offender just cannot get out of the way of a point blank blast can be horribly unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, most of us seem to agree that the penalties against us, especially in the last 2 games have cost us dearly [4 points] ... I think I saw a table on the Sky game the other night that showed we were top of the "penalties against" league... followed by MK Don's. So, we're either behaving in a naive way when defending or Refs aren't very good or we're having to resort to last ditch tackles. I think it's a bit of a combination. The fact is [IMO] that for years actually we've not had a midfield that protects our defence. I trust that Warne knows this and will address it for next season. I truly can't see promotion this season where we've actually excelled tbh. I hope I'm wrong.
Cheers.Terry. UTR
... and sadly i note Mystic Meg has passed away aged 80. So those of you who used her for predicting the Rams scores will have to find another psychic...
Most use VC10 these days............
comment by đ´ó §ó ˘ó łó Łó ´ó ż HebridesRam (U2909)
posted 19 minutes ago
Most use VC10 these days............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm having a bad run recently since Bird was injured. Wonderful fantastic player, I'm so glad we refused the £50 million from Chelsea.
comment by đ´ó §ó ˘ó łó Łó ´ó ż HebridesRam (U2909)
posted 42 minutes ago
Most use VC10 these days............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They went out of service years ago.
comment by Chicagoram (U22653)
posted about 14 hours ago
Re Collins, yes he has been bang average recently - not controlling the ball, not winning headers, not getting in the box enough but to be fair, when did he last get 90 minutes in? I agree with someone who said he could be trying too hard given his lack of opportunity and I suspect he would be much better with AN other next to him (which would mean Didzy) but then what do you do with midfield or do you only play one winger? Let's be even fairer and question M-L's recent performances - nowhere near as good as a few months back but then I'm sure that he is now very closely marked and not by just one defender. The hard facts are that we have gone backwards since Bird's injury and that just highlights our lack of squad depth and lack of players in the mid-twenties age range as all these games are now catching up on our older guys.
With the best will in the world we cannot expect White to be the answer.
I am always hesitant when people talk of rule changes but Vidal's suggestions are worth looking at as very often the award of a penalty seems totally disproportionate to the offence - eg, an innocent handball in the box but well away from the goal itself. The new rule allowing a penalty for hand or arm contact when the offender just cannot get out of the way of a point blank blast can be horribly unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Collins wasn't controlling the ball, winning headers or getting in the box from the start. That is why he isn't on for 90 minutes now. It took a long time for some on here to recognise that.
Crikey, reading the (justified) criticism against Collins its like there's suddenly several Sparts on this site!
Just to echo previous point we need to set up differently away from home. Against the better sides we need to adopt a more defensive (5-3-2) counter attacking approach.
Derby now need to rubber stamp their position in the play offs, but I'd have Barnsley and Ipswich as the more likely to progress to the play off final.....but you never know.
Should we not manage to achieve promotion how many players could we actually see leaving?
The loanees would all return, I'd like Dobbin and Roberts to return to the club to offer continuity and they'd be improving too.
Curtis Davies
Stearman
Chester
As the elder statesmen would all most likely leave. I thought Bielik's contract would be coming to an end in 2023 but have read it's until 2024?
Bird, Knight and possibly Sibley would all need to move on as they'll have career aspirations and we'd need the cash injection too.
I hope we can keep hold of Cashin but money talks. Liam Thompson may want more game time so could possibly move on.
The rebuild job for the 2023-2024 season if promotion is not achieved is going to be incredibly critical to get right.
We were very fortunate ( Liam Rosenior's contacts and likeability?) to get the calibre of players that we did, next season we'll be seeing in my opinion an influx of Rotherham players who are out of contract + a mix of League 1.
We were very fortunate ( Liam Rosenior's contacts and likeability?) to get the calibre of players that we did, next season we'll be seeing in my opinion an influx of Rotherham players who are out of contract + a mix of League 1.
I don't like the sound of that, we need to get promoted this year.
….. we need to get promoted this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easier said than done.
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 23 minutes ago
….. we need to get promoted this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easier said than done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What happens if we dont ? đ¤
comment by đ AnglianRam đ (U17428)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 23 minutes ago
….. we need to get promoted this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easier said than done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What happens if we dont ? đ¤
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We will stay in div 3 and play all the little teams we've played this season and miss promotion with a bunch of ex Rotherham oldie cloggers. Can't bloody wait.
Sign in if you want to comment
Plymouth Argyle 2 - 1 Derby County
Page 15 of 16
12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16
posted on 8/3/23
Spart, what did you think of Collins last night? I thought he was awful and Dobbin not much better. It's the lack of goal scorers that is letting us down...should have got Martin back!
I noticed that when their right winger scored, our left back was wandering back when he should have been on him, I think Roberts is a poor player even though he scored a good goal.
I was sorry not to see Rooney in the team, he played really well against Salop and it was never a penalty. Last nights was though, White dangled his leg out. Does anyone know whether White is related to Tom Carroll? He plays the same.
posted on 8/3/23
You and I seem to be the only ones that say it was a peno VC.
posted on 8/3/23
comment by Igòr; League 1, you’ve being Warne-D đđ¤đ¤ (U22200)
posted 16 minutes ago
You and I seem to be the only ones that say it was a peno VC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Plymouth lad would have got all three medals if that had been an Olympic diving contest tho.
Shameless gamesmanship and I'm sick of it.
posted on 8/3/23
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted about an hour ago
comment by Igòr; League 1, you’ve being Warne-D đđ¤đ¤ (U22200)
posted 16 minutes ago
You and I seem to be the only ones that say it was a peno VC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Plymouth lad would have got all three medals if that had been an Olympic diving contest tho.
Shameless gamesmanship and I'm sick of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It will never change Scouse, especially when former "pros" condone diving & say it's part of the game.
posted on 8/3/23
It’s the inconsistency that grates. I have seen much more stonewall pens not given. It’s possible White’s bootlace touched their player and they caused him to perform a inadvertent pike.
Seriously, if that’s the standard for penalties to be given we might as well give up.
posted on 8/3/23
It's the culture that has to change. It is not "professional", it is cheating, weedy and pathetic behaviour. That is the message we need to get across. Stand-up, take the tackle and stop being a fairy.
Ditto time-wasting, abuse, spitting, pulling hair and other such unseemly nonsense.
posted on 8/3/23
In terms of what is acceptable and what is not could it be that all televised games have too many ex-pros in the commentary box, all of them more than willing to condone the "professional foul". This has been going on for so long now that this cheating really is part of the game. Should refs spot it more easily? Maybe but the art of conning is now so refined that it needs a top class ref to spot it and they are in very short supply (non-existent in our league). In days of yore I really liked having an ex pro as joint commentator as they could always spot something the main commentator failed to see. Now, when there are cameras at every vantage point the professional commentators see things more often than not so are these extras really needed?
If last night's ref was not sure about the "penalty" he either should not have given it or should have consulted his assistant first. If the assistant was unsure also, then the penalty should not have been given.
In terms of Derby's play I was so disappointed in the lack of controlled football (as demonstrated by P in the second half). We are totally capable of it yet insist on hopeful long punts from defence which just keep coming straight back so obviously that sustained pressure will count in the end. As soon as P got their lucky first I knew we would lose as our defence, lacking real help from midfield, now seems to wilt the longer the game goes on. Maybe Curt should come in and Fozzie move to left back? That would give extra height, strength and experience at the back. Put Rooney at RB if fit and Smith in midfield in place of Hourihane who seems not able to sustain two games in quick succession. I can't see Bird getting 90 mins this Saturday.
posted on 8/3/23
While the punishment for simulation in the penalty are is at worst a booking, the benefit is that it can win the game. It is therefore the best option if there appears to be no way through on goal and it is late in the game. If they awarded a penalty against the side simulating then it would stop overnight. There was actual contact on the Plymouth player but not even enough to slow him down. Like on Saturday we have been undone by very iffy penalties.
I too noticed the similarity between White and Tom Carrol. Both flatter to deceive a bit like their parent club.
posted on 8/3/23
Tom Carroll has had a good career. Sometimes when a player comes on loan from a big club our expectations are that they are a player of the very highest quality but that might not be the case. I think White is a good player, but not really what we need at the moment.
I agree with VC that Collins was poor when he came on last night, in fact for me he has done little in his cameos for the last few games. The problem Warne has is that Didzy is our best player by a long distance and he daren't rest him, or even substitute him unless he is sure that the game is won. Collins is getting very little time on the pitch, and he looks rusty and as if he is trying too hard to make an impression. He is giving away a lot of free-kicks by barging into defenders and his touch has been poor. I think that he might act as a decent foil for Didzy in a front two, but we don't really have midfielders who are up to the task of playing in a pair in the way that, say, Van der Laan and Darryl Powell did, or Carsley and Eranio.
Warne has got to make the most of what he's got but it's become clear that we are too lacking in certain areas to be serious contenders this season. I agree with Spart that we if we do make the play-offs we might struggle but you never know. Warne certainly has a track record in that department and as we saw at Leeds, almost anything can happen once the pressure cranks up.
posted on 8/3/23
I agree Collins has been really poor of late, it’s hardly believable that he is our second highest scorer with nine in all competitions, so he can do it at times!
posted on 8/3/23
The trouble with punishing players for diving (why have we started calling it simulation?) is the same as with giving penalties - the ref might get it wrong. If Spart's idea was introduced we would probably end up having a penalty given against us that should have been given for us and effectively be two goals worse off than we should have been. I just think that the ref needs to have a higher threshold for giving a penalty than for other parts of the pitch and only point to the spot if he is absolutely certain. I know some fans say "a foul is a foul" but the reality is that there is a subjectivity to offences, as with last night's decision. My younger son thinks that indirect free-kicks rather than penalties should be awarded inside the box, at least for some offences, which is an interesting idea. It seems unfair that what can be a minor or questionable foul can decide the entire outcome of the game.
posted on 8/3/23
Foul inside the box but no immediate threat to goal - indirect free-kick
Foul denying clear goal-scoring opportunity - penalty
Foul denying clear goal e.g. handball on the line - give a goal.
posted on 8/3/23
Re Collins, yes he has been bang average recently - not controlling the ball, not winning headers, not getting in the box enough but to be fair, when did he last get 90 minutes in? I agree with someone who said he could be trying too hard given his lack of opportunity and I suspect he would be much better with AN other next to him (which would mean Didzy) but then what do you do with midfield or do you only play one winger? Let's be even fairer and question M-L's recent performances - nowhere near as good as a few months back but then I'm sure that he is now very closely marked and not by just one defender. The hard facts are that we have gone backwards since Bird's injury and that just highlights our lack of squad depth and lack of players in the mid-twenties age range as all these games are now catching up on our older guys.
With the best will in the world we cannot expect White to be the answer.
I am always hesitant when people talk of rule changes but Vidal's suggestions are worth looking at as very often the award of a penalty seems totally disproportionate to the offence - eg, an innocent handball in the box but well away from the goal itself. The new rule allowing a penalty for hand or arm contact when the offender just cannot get out of the way of a point blank blast can be horribly unfair.
posted on 9/3/23
comment by Chicagoram (U22653)
posted 7 hours, 39 minutes ago
Re Collins, yes he has been bang average recently - not controlling the ball, not winning headers, not getting in the box enough but to be fair, when did he last get 90 minutes in? I agree with someone who said he could be trying too hard given his lack of opportunity and I suspect he would be much better with AN other next to him (which would mean Didzy) but then what do you do with midfield or do you only play one winger? Let's be even fairer and question M-L's recent performances - nowhere near as good as a few months back but then I'm sure that he is now very closely marked and not by just one defender. The hard facts are that we have gone backwards since Bird's injury and that just highlights our lack of squad depth and lack of players in the mid-twenties age range as all these games are now catching up on our older guys.
With the best will in the world we cannot expect White to be the answer.
I am always hesitant when people talk of rule changes but Vidal's suggestions are worth looking at as very often the award of a penalty seems totally disproportionate to the offence - eg, an innocent handball in the box but well away from the goal itself. The new rule allowing a penalty for hand or arm contact when the offender just cannot get out of the way of a point blank blast can be horribly unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, most of us seem to agree that the penalties against us, especially in the last 2 games have cost us dearly [4 points] ... I think I saw a table on the Sky game the other night that showed we were top of the "penalties against" league... followed by MK Don's. So, we're either behaving in a naive way when defending or Refs aren't very good or we're having to resort to last ditch tackles. I think it's a bit of a combination. The fact is [IMO] that for years actually we've not had a midfield that protects our defence. I trust that Warne knows this and will address it for next season. I truly can't see promotion this season where we've actually excelled tbh. I hope I'm wrong.
Cheers.Terry. UTR
posted on 9/3/23
... and sadly i note Mystic Meg has passed away aged 80. So those of you who used her for predicting the Rams scores will have to find another psychic...
posted on 9/3/23
Most use VC10 these days............
posted on 9/3/23
comment by đ´ó §ó ˘ó łó Łó ´ó ż HebridesRam (U2909)
posted 19 minutes ago
Most use VC10 these days............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm having a bad run recently since Bird was injured. Wonderful fantastic player, I'm so glad we refused the £50 million from Chelsea.
posted on 9/3/23
comment by đ´ó §ó ˘ó łó Łó ´ó ż HebridesRam (U2909)
posted 42 minutes ago
Most use VC10 these days............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They went out of service years ago.
posted on 9/3/23
comment by Chicagoram (U22653)
posted about 14 hours ago
Re Collins, yes he has been bang average recently - not controlling the ball, not winning headers, not getting in the box enough but to be fair, when did he last get 90 minutes in? I agree with someone who said he could be trying too hard given his lack of opportunity and I suspect he would be much better with AN other next to him (which would mean Didzy) but then what do you do with midfield or do you only play one winger? Let's be even fairer and question M-L's recent performances - nowhere near as good as a few months back but then I'm sure that he is now very closely marked and not by just one defender. The hard facts are that we have gone backwards since Bird's injury and that just highlights our lack of squad depth and lack of players in the mid-twenties age range as all these games are now catching up on our older guys.
With the best will in the world we cannot expect White to be the answer.
I am always hesitant when people talk of rule changes but Vidal's suggestions are worth looking at as very often the award of a penalty seems totally disproportionate to the offence - eg, an innocent handball in the box but well away from the goal itself. The new rule allowing a penalty for hand or arm contact when the offender just cannot get out of the way of a point blank blast can be horribly unfair.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Collins wasn't controlling the ball, winning headers or getting in the box from the start. That is why he isn't on for 90 minutes now. It took a long time for some on here to recognise that.
posted on 9/3/23
Crikey, reading the (justified) criticism against Collins its like there's suddenly several Sparts on this site!
Just to echo previous point we need to set up differently away from home. Against the better sides we need to adopt a more defensive (5-3-2) counter attacking approach.
Derby now need to rubber stamp their position in the play offs, but I'd have Barnsley and Ipswich as the more likely to progress to the play off final.....but you never know.
posted on 9/3/23
Should we not manage to achieve promotion how many players could we actually see leaving?
The loanees would all return, I'd like Dobbin and Roberts to return to the club to offer continuity and they'd be improving too.
Curtis Davies
Stearman
Chester
As the elder statesmen would all most likely leave. I thought Bielik's contract would be coming to an end in 2023 but have read it's until 2024?
Bird, Knight and possibly Sibley would all need to move on as they'll have career aspirations and we'd need the cash injection too.
I hope we can keep hold of Cashin but money talks. Liam Thompson may want more game time so could possibly move on.
The rebuild job for the 2023-2024 season if promotion is not achieved is going to be incredibly critical to get right.
We were very fortunate ( Liam Rosenior's contacts and likeability?) to get the calibre of players that we did, next season we'll be seeing in my opinion an influx of Rotherham players who are out of contract + a mix of League 1.
posted on 9/3/23
We were very fortunate ( Liam Rosenior's contacts and likeability?) to get the calibre of players that we did, next season we'll be seeing in my opinion an influx of Rotherham players who are out of contract + a mix of League 1.
I don't like the sound of that, we need to get promoted this year.
posted on 9/3/23
….. we need to get promoted this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easier said than done.
posted on 9/3/23
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 23 minutes ago
….. we need to get promoted this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easier said than done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What happens if we dont ? đ¤
posted on 9/3/23
comment by đ AnglianRam đ (U17428)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Scouse (U9675)
posted 23 minutes ago
….. we need to get promoted this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easier said than done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What happens if we dont ? đ¤
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We will stay in div 3 and play all the little teams we've played this season and miss promotion with a bunch of ex Rotherham oldie cloggers. Can't bloody wait.
Page 15 of 16
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