The only reason we knew Saddam did have WMDs
---
In case you missed it, he famously didn't have those weapons.
£100m bid for Kane incoming if this goes through
Yeah good luck with that. There’s a reason that there’s been hardly any cultural change in Saudi despite the collaborations with the West. A few footballers going there for stupid money won’t change that.
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 2 minutes ago
The only reason we knew Saddam did have WMDs
---
In case you missed it, he famously didn't have those weapons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do a bit more research about that, mate! It goes a lot deeper than the anti-war headlines.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Boy F7-0m The South (U3979)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 minutes ago
The part i don't understand is that the offer appears to contain a clause allowing him to leave for free after one year to go to Madrid. WTF? So The Saudis can essentially write off 1 billion (because according to some sources, they'll be paying £259m plus £700m in wages for one year). Surely that's not right?!!! This is madness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realise how loaded the Saudi state is, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£1bn to promote a country that still chops off its citizen’s heads. The beautiful game indeed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The truth about the moral issue is that whether we think it's tasteful or not, real change is achieved, not by driving up sanctions but by collaborating or opening a door to a western way of life. Short term we look at the likes of Henderson with disdain but this move will be see progress in the Arab states because culturally they'll align more with us. It leaves a sour taste now but long term I wouldn't mind betting we start to see real change in 10, 20, 30 years time. They'll still be religious, they'll still have their views but I bet they'll be a softening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t bet money on that.
Saudi Arabia has become much more conservative and religious over the last 50 years. Religious authorities have been handed more and more power and implemented stricter and stricter enforcement of shari’a.
The Saudi government has increasingly actively promoted Salafism over the last couple of generations through the extensive building of mosques and Islamic schools abroad, and Amnesty describes the state’s educational curriculum as inherently racist.
Add to that how the government dealt with peaceful protestors during the Arab spring (execution), likes to deal with dissenters in the media (assassination), and people making basically any kind of suggestion of political reform (lock up and throw away the key), and I wouldn’t be holding breath.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 2 minutes ago
The only reason we knew Saddam did have WMDs
---
In case you missed it, he famously didn't have those weapons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do a bit more research about that, mate! It goes a lot deeper than the anti-war headlines.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really don't need to. It's widely known that MI5 knew it was all bollox when Blair made his big statement. There was that big public investigation about it that went on for ages and proved it so. He should've gone to prison
The cultural and military might of the West has been unable to force cultural change in Saudi.
Jordan Henderson to the rescue with rainbow armbands.
*commercial, cultural and military
Yeah sadaam hussein gave up his nuclear weapons long before that. There is a detailed account on iraq weapons from scott ritter
If this carries on, the Saudi Pro League will become a bigger title than the Serie A title within 3 years.
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
In a few years only the PL & La Liga titles will be more valuable than the Saudi title.
Managers like Mourinho & Ancelotti will go there to ‘complete the set’ of major titles.
I’m all for it tbh.
Change is good and football is too European centric.
Hopefully the Super League will eventually happen with some Saudi clubs and Inter Miami maybe also invited this time.
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
--------------
since when? It is still a joke league and will be for the foreseeable.
The real wtf moment will be seeing which broadcaster cracks first and goes against its policy of the past several years to lick the saudi nuts.
The irony is we are all paying for 'this' as Saudi modulates the oil price virtually at will along with other greedy Opec members under the excuse of Ukraine. They are swimming in money.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
Saudi’s collaboration with the West for the last century is a good example of that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What collaboration? Prior to the recent government deal for oil and the latest football deals, there's been no collaboration, just hostility and mistrust. The more exposure they get to players of all ethnicities bringing joy to millions around the world, the less likely you'll see kids growing up angry in the name of jihad. It's hard to see it now but it will happen eventually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ffs man. For starters, have a look at the arms deals the west have with the middle east.
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 52 minutes ago
What collaboration?
———
Are you serious?
Saudi Arabia have been an ally of the US and Britain for over 100 years. The British put the House of Saud in power ffs.
Who do you think sells them all their weapons? Why do you think Britain and the US have army bases in Saudi?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or this
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 10 minutes ago
If this carries on, the Saudi Pro League will become a bigger title than the Serie A title within 3 years.
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
In a few years only the PL & La Liga titles will be more valuable than the Saudi title.
Managers like Mourinho & Ancelotti will go there to ‘complete the set’ of major titles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this carries on, the EPL will be in as much of a distant horizon.
The money will follow these players as will global tv. The EPL depends on both. Take them away and what’s left?
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 24 seconds ago
And the Krauts think they can come and take Kane for a paltry £70m
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheeky Bratwurst eating feckers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They only offer us 100m for Osimhen also
The salsicce munching thingies
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 10 minutes ago
If this carries on, the Saudi Pro League will become a bigger title than the Serie A title within 3 years.
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
In a few years only the PL & La Liga titles will be more valuable than the Saudi title.
Managers like Mourinho & Ancelotti will go there to ‘complete the set’ of major titles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this carries on, the EPL will be in as much of a distant horizon.
The money will follow these players as will global tv. The EPL depends on both. Take them away and what’s left?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tyrone Mings
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 23 minutes ago
Take them away and what’s left?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100+ yo club crests.
Sometimes.
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 52 minutes ago
The cultural and military might of the West has been unable to force cultural change in Saudi.
Jordan Henderson to the rescue with rainbow armbands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 48 minutes ago
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
--------------
since when? It is still a joke league and will be for the foreseeable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since now.
They attract big names and will soon have 4 ball clubs filled to the brim with top talent.
There’s no FFP nonsense there so they can build 4 super-duper teams.
If you’re a player now, you’re much more likely to want to go to the SPL than Holland, Turkey etc. The money, global interest and competition is better.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Boy F7-0m The South (U3979)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 minutes ago
The part i don't understand is that the offer appears to contain a clause allowing him to leave for free after one year to go to Madrid. WTF? So The Saudis can essentially write off 1 billion (because according to some sources, they'll be paying £259m plus £700m in wages for one year). Surely that's not right?!!! This is madness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realise how loaded the Saudi state is, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£1bn to promote a country that still chops off its citizen’s heads. The beautiful game indeed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The truth about the moral issue is that whether we think it's tasteful or not, real change is achieved, not by driving up sanctions but by collaborating or opening a door to a western way of life. Short term we look at the likes of Henderson with disdain but this move will be see progress in the Arab states because culturally they'll align more with us. It leaves a sour taste now but long term I wouldn't mind betting we start to see real change in 10, 20, 30 years time. They'll still be religious, they'll still have their views but I bet they'll be a softening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t bet money on that.
Saudi Arabia has become much more conservative and religious over the last 50 years. Religious authorities have been handed more and more power and implemented stricter and stricter enforcement of shari’a.
The Saudi government has increasingly actively promoted Salafism over the last couple of generations through the extensive building of mosques and Islamic schools abroad, and Amnesty describes the state’s educational curriculum as inherently racist.
Add to that how the government dealt with peaceful protestors during the Arab spring (execution), likes to deal with dissenters in the media (assassination), and people making basically any kind of suggestion of political reform (lock up and throw away the key), and I wouldn’t be holding breath.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah really it's not anymore.
Forget projects like The Line and Makkaba.
MBS is "modernising" Saudi like nothing you would believe or ever seen before.
Concerts and allowing pagan rituals like Halloween to be allowed.
It's completely opposite of becoming more religious.
comment by Hezzman (U21558)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Boy F7-0m The South (U3979)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 minutes ago
The part i don't understand is that the offer appears to contain a clause allowing him to leave for free after one year to go to Madrid. WTF? So The Saudis can essentially write off 1 billion (because according to some sources, they'll be paying £259m plus £700m in wages for one year). Surely that's not right?!!! This is madness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realise how loaded the Saudi state is, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£1bn to promote a country that still chops off its citizen’s heads. The beautiful game indeed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The truth about the moral issue is that whether we think it's tasteful or not, real change is achieved, not by driving up sanctions but by collaborating or opening a door to a western way of life. Short term we look at the likes of Henderson with disdain but this move will be see progress in the Arab states because culturally they'll align more with us. It leaves a sour taste now but long term I wouldn't mind betting we start to see real change in 10, 20, 30 years time. They'll still be religious, they'll still have their views but I bet they'll be a softening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t bet money on that.
Saudi Arabia has become much more conservative and religious over the last 50 years. Religious authorities have been handed more and more power and implemented stricter and stricter enforcement of shari’a.
The Saudi government has increasingly actively promoted Salafism over the last couple of generations through the extensive building of mosques and Islamic schools abroad, and Amnesty describes the state’s educational curriculum as inherently racist.
Add to that how the government dealt with peaceful protestors during the Arab spring (execution), likes to deal with dissenters in the media (assassination), and people making basically any kind of suggestion of political reform (lock up and throw away the key), and I wouldn’t be holding breath.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah really it's not anymore.
Forget projects like The Line and Makkaba.
MBS is "modernising" Saudi like nothing you would believe or ever seen before.
Concerts and allowing pagan rituals like Halloween to be allowed.
It's completely opposite of becoming more religious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let’s see what happens.
The last time there was a suggestion of significant ‘liberalisation’ there was an Islamist uprising, a bunch of religious sites were seized, the monarchy was forced into a complete volte face, and the Ulema ended up with more power and influence than before.
I think we all hope it’ll be different this time, but again, I wouldn’t count on it. Cultural and social aspects of Vision 2030 have already been roundly criticised by several notable religious figures, including the Grand Mufti, and Saudi is yet to be a certifiably post-Wahhabist state.
Let’s also not forget that executions have soared under MbS: he’s killing his own subjects for fun. 196 in 2022 alone - the highest number that Amnesty has recorded in the country in 30 years.
That number included people sentenced to death for sedition (surprise, surprise), membership of a proscribed group (political activists), apostasy, and ‘witchcraft and sorcery’.
That’s before we consider the extra-judicial killings and torture. The man isn’t a liberal; he’s an apex authoritarian and a butcher.
Sign in if you want to comment
Seriously WTF ?
Page 2 of 3
posted on 24/7/23
Ronaldo must be gutted
posted on 24/7/23
The only reason we knew Saddam did have WMDs
---
In case you missed it, he famously didn't have those weapons.
posted on 24/7/23
£100m bid for Kane incoming if this goes through
posted on 24/7/23
Yeah good luck with that. There’s a reason that there’s been hardly any cultural change in Saudi despite the collaborations with the West. A few footballers going there for stupid money won’t change that.
posted on 24/7/23
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 2 minutes ago
The only reason we knew Saddam did have WMDs
---
In case you missed it, he famously didn't have those weapons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do a bit more research about that, mate! It goes a lot deeper than the anti-war headlines.
posted on 24/7/23
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Boy F7-0m The South (U3979)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 minutes ago
The part i don't understand is that the offer appears to contain a clause allowing him to leave for free after one year to go to Madrid. WTF? So The Saudis can essentially write off 1 billion (because according to some sources, they'll be paying £259m plus £700m in wages for one year). Surely that's not right?!!! This is madness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realise how loaded the Saudi state is, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£1bn to promote a country that still chops off its citizen’s heads. The beautiful game indeed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The truth about the moral issue is that whether we think it's tasteful or not, real change is achieved, not by driving up sanctions but by collaborating or opening a door to a western way of life. Short term we look at the likes of Henderson with disdain but this move will be see progress in the Arab states because culturally they'll align more with us. It leaves a sour taste now but long term I wouldn't mind betting we start to see real change in 10, 20, 30 years time. They'll still be religious, they'll still have their views but I bet they'll be a softening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t bet money on that.
Saudi Arabia has become much more conservative and religious over the last 50 years. Religious authorities have been handed more and more power and implemented stricter and stricter enforcement of shari’a.
The Saudi government has increasingly actively promoted Salafism over the last couple of generations through the extensive building of mosques and Islamic schools abroad, and Amnesty describes the state’s educational curriculum as inherently racist.
Add to that how the government dealt with peaceful protestors during the Arab spring (execution), likes to deal with dissenters in the media (assassination), and people making basically any kind of suggestion of political reform (lock up and throw away the key), and I wouldn’t be holding breath.
posted on 24/7/23
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Bãleš left boot-e-cog-lou (U22081)
posted 2 minutes ago
The only reason we knew Saddam did have WMDs
---
In case you missed it, he famously didn't have those weapons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do a bit more research about that, mate! It goes a lot deeper than the anti-war headlines.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really don't need to. It's widely known that MI5 knew it was all bollox when Blair made his big statement. There was that big public investigation about it that went on for ages and proved it so. He should've gone to prison
posted on 24/7/23
The cultural and military might of the West has been unable to force cultural change in Saudi.
Jordan Henderson to the rescue with rainbow armbands.
posted on 24/7/23
*commercial, cultural and military
posted on 24/7/23
Yeah sadaam hussein gave up his nuclear weapons long before that. There is a detailed account on iraq weapons from scott ritter
posted on 24/7/23
If this carries on, the Saudi Pro League will become a bigger title than the Serie A title within 3 years.
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
In a few years only the PL & La Liga titles will be more valuable than the Saudi title.
Managers like Mourinho & Ancelotti will go there to ‘complete the set’ of major titles.
posted on 24/7/23
I’m all for it tbh.
Change is good and football is too European centric.
Hopefully the Super League will eventually happen with some Saudi clubs and Inter Miami maybe also invited this time.
posted on 24/7/23
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
--------------
since when? It is still a joke league and will be for the foreseeable.
posted on 24/7/23
The real wtf moment will be seeing which broadcaster cracks first and goes against its policy of the past several years to lick the saudi nuts.
posted on 24/7/23
The irony is we are all paying for 'this' as Saudi modulates the oil price virtually at will along with other greedy Opec members under the excuse of Ukraine. They are swimming in money.
posted on 24/7/23
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 55 minutes ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
Saudi’s collaboration with the West for the last century is a good example of that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What collaboration? Prior to the recent government deal for oil and the latest football deals, there's been no collaboration, just hostility and mistrust. The more exposure they get to players of all ethnicities bringing joy to millions around the world, the less likely you'll see kids growing up angry in the name of jihad. It's hard to see it now but it will happen eventually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ffs man. For starters, have a look at the arms deals the west have with the middle east.
posted on 24/7/23
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 52 minutes ago
What collaboration?
———
Are you serious?
Saudi Arabia have been an ally of the US and Britain for over 100 years. The British put the House of Saud in power ffs.
Who do you think sells them all their weapons? Why do you think Britain and the US have army bases in Saudi?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or this
posted on 24/7/23
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 10 minutes ago
If this carries on, the Saudi Pro League will become a bigger title than the Serie A title within 3 years.
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
In a few years only the PL & La Liga titles will be more valuable than the Saudi title.
Managers like Mourinho & Ancelotti will go there to ‘complete the set’ of major titles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this carries on, the EPL will be in as much of a distant horizon.
The money will follow these players as will global tv. The EPL depends on both. Take them away and what’s left?
posted on 24/7/23
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 24 seconds ago
And the Krauts think they can come and take Kane for a paltry £70m
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheeky Bratwurst eating feckers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They only offer us 100m for Osimhen also
The salsicce munching thingies
posted on 24/7/23
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by #LiquidGenius (U20571)
posted 10 minutes ago
If this carries on, the Saudi Pro League will become a bigger title than the Serie A title within 3 years.
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
In a few years only the PL & La Liga titles will be more valuable than the Saudi title.
Managers like Mourinho & Ancelotti will go there to ‘complete the set’ of major titles.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this carries on, the EPL will be in as much of a distant horizon.
The money will follow these players as will global tv. The EPL depends on both. Take them away and what’s left?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tyrone Mings
posted on 24/7/23
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 23 minutes ago
Take them away and what’s left?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
100+ yo club crests.
Sometimes.
posted on 24/7/23
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 52 minutes ago
The cultural and military might of the West has been unable to force cultural change in Saudi.
Jordan Henderson to the rescue with rainbow armbands.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 24/7/23
comment by Cinciwolf----Old Trafford record attendance.....WOLVES V GRIMSBY. .......lolz (U11551)
posted 48 minutes ago
It’s already bigger than the Portuguese & Turkish titles and probably the Eredivise too.
--------------
since when? It is still a joke league and will be for the foreseeable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Since now.
They attract big names and will soon have 4 ball clubs filled to the brim with top talent.
There’s no FFP nonsense there so they can build 4 super-duper teams.
If you’re a player now, you’re much more likely to want to go to the SPL than Holland, Turkey etc. The money, global interest and competition is better.
posted on 24/7/23
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Boy F7-0m The South (U3979)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 minutes ago
The part i don't understand is that the offer appears to contain a clause allowing him to leave for free after one year to go to Madrid. WTF? So The Saudis can essentially write off 1 billion (because according to some sources, they'll be paying £259m plus £700m in wages for one year). Surely that's not right?!!! This is madness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realise how loaded the Saudi state is, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£1bn to promote a country that still chops off its citizen’s heads. The beautiful game indeed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The truth about the moral issue is that whether we think it's tasteful or not, real change is achieved, not by driving up sanctions but by collaborating or opening a door to a western way of life. Short term we look at the likes of Henderson with disdain but this move will be see progress in the Arab states because culturally they'll align more with us. It leaves a sour taste now but long term I wouldn't mind betting we start to see real change in 10, 20, 30 years time. They'll still be religious, they'll still have their views but I bet they'll be a softening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t bet money on that.
Saudi Arabia has become much more conservative and religious over the last 50 years. Religious authorities have been handed more and more power and implemented stricter and stricter enforcement of shari’a.
The Saudi government has increasingly actively promoted Salafism over the last couple of generations through the extensive building of mosques and Islamic schools abroad, and Amnesty describes the state’s educational curriculum as inherently racist.
Add to that how the government dealt with peaceful protestors during the Arab spring (execution), likes to deal with dissenters in the media (assassination), and people making basically any kind of suggestion of political reform (lock up and throw away the key), and I wouldn’t be holding breath.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah really it's not anymore.
Forget projects like The Line and Makkaba.
MBS is "modernising" Saudi like nothing you would believe or ever seen before.
Concerts and allowing pagan rituals like Halloween to be allowed.
It's completely opposite of becoming more religious.
posted on 24/7/23
comment by Hezzman (U21558)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 31 minutes ago
comment by Boy F7-0m The South (U3979)
posted 31 seconds ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 3 minutes ago
The part i don't understand is that the offer appears to contain a clause allowing him to leave for free after one year to go to Madrid. WTF? So The Saudis can essentially write off 1 billion (because according to some sources, they'll be paying £259m plus £700m in wages for one year). Surely that's not right?!!! This is madness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realise how loaded the Saudi state is, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
£1bn to promote a country that still chops off its citizen’s heads. The beautiful game indeed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The truth about the moral issue is that whether we think it's tasteful or not, real change is achieved, not by driving up sanctions but by collaborating or opening a door to a western way of life. Short term we look at the likes of Henderson with disdain but this move will be see progress in the Arab states because culturally they'll align more with us. It leaves a sour taste now but long term I wouldn't mind betting we start to see real change in 10, 20, 30 years time. They'll still be religious, they'll still have their views but I bet they'll be a softening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t bet money on that.
Saudi Arabia has become much more conservative and religious over the last 50 years. Religious authorities have been handed more and more power and implemented stricter and stricter enforcement of shari’a.
The Saudi government has increasingly actively promoted Salafism over the last couple of generations through the extensive building of mosques and Islamic schools abroad, and Amnesty describes the state’s educational curriculum as inherently racist.
Add to that how the government dealt with peaceful protestors during the Arab spring (execution), likes to deal with dissenters in the media (assassination), and people making basically any kind of suggestion of political reform (lock up and throw away the key), and I wouldn’t be holding breath.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah really it's not anymore.
Forget projects like The Line and Makkaba.
MBS is "modernising" Saudi like nothing you would believe or ever seen before.
Concerts and allowing pagan rituals like Halloween to be allowed.
It's completely opposite of becoming more religious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let’s see what happens.
The last time there was a suggestion of significant ‘liberalisation’ there was an Islamist uprising, a bunch of religious sites were seized, the monarchy was forced into a complete volte face, and the Ulema ended up with more power and influence than before.
I think we all hope it’ll be different this time, but again, I wouldn’t count on it. Cultural and social aspects of Vision 2030 have already been roundly criticised by several notable religious figures, including the Grand Mufti, and Saudi is yet to be a certifiably post-Wahhabist state.
Let’s also not forget that executions have soared under MbS: he’s killing his own subjects for fun. 196 in 2022 alone - the highest number that Amnesty has recorded in the country in 30 years.
That number included people sentenced to death for sedition (surprise, surprise), membership of a proscribed group (political activists), apostasy, and ‘witchcraft and sorcery’.
That’s before we consider the extra-judicial killings and torture. The man isn’t a liberal; he’s an apex authoritarian and a butcher.
Page 2 of 3