comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پا... (U2805)
posted 5 minutes ago
No people know exactly how we’ve lined up. Also know that he was playing slightly higher, but certainly no higher than Bielsa says. Defensively Ayling has been absolutely shocking - he cost us many goals in that spell of 7/8 games when we conceded a lot -
And some of that was under Fat Sam’s park the bus tactics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its a completely different role as to what Bielsa wanted his FBs to do, to be honest. I've seen this argument around. Bielsa wanted his FBs to be attacking, yes, but he wanted them to pick the ball up deep and move it forward from those positions, either by driving forward with it (which Ayling has been very good at) or by working it up the pitch.
Farke has the FBs start much higher (see my formations above) and receive the ball in those advanced positions. That requires defenders that can play the ball quickly, which requires balanced CBs that are passing out on their natural side.
comment by Lubo - Gyabi, you're gonna be the one tha... (U14008)
posted 4 minutes ago
---------------Meslier
------Struijk-----------Cooper
------Gray--------------Ampadu
-------------------------------------Hjelde
Ayling---Sini---Cree---Gnonto-----------James
This is me articulating how I viewed the formation first half. Its a poor set-up. There's the obvious lack of balance, not helped by out of position players. Felt like a few that didn't really understand where they were meant to be operating. Much better in the second.
------------------Meslier
-------Cresswell------Struijk
---------Gray---------Ampadu
Ayling--------Summerville-----Byram
--------Sinisterra------------James
-----------------Gnonto
Far more balance to that, and its helped by having a LWB who understands the position they need to hold, and having players that are more effectively able to quickly play the ball out of the back 2.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. That’s how I saw both halves. Ayling was left out to dry working that wing alone first half. He got no cover whatsoever.
Second half was much better when Creswell came on, Byram allowed James to do what he does best and Ayling got some help.
I’m sure Farke will adjust things to suit.
Ayling might have cost us a few goals last season but to be honest the whole team have to take responsibility for that debacle. Just a shame so many of those responsible have bottled it and left on loan. At least Bill steps up to the plate.
Side note; found it a bit odd that we weren’t rushing to kick off again. Prolonged celebrations against a rubbish team to save a point in the second division.
Found that strange too, although the ref did allow an extra couple of minutes in addition to the +6...If I'm honest I had the feeling Cardiff were going to score at the death.
Theoretically, the addition of realistic stoppage time means that it shouldn't matter how long you celebrate.
That being said, I think a 96th minute equaliser is always something to celebrate, regardless of the percieved quality of the opposition.
Ayling is a glaring liability. If we somehow get promoted
back up to the Prem, no way Ayling's starting. So why
waste time on a 31 year old, quickly diminishing player?
Get Drameh in and see what we have. If he's crap,
deal with it once we know. Standing by Bamford and
Bill and hoping they'll somehow get better or less glass
is football insanity.
Thought Ayling played well, the tactics were poor for me.
To dominate in such a way, whilst having that formation and so many players playing out of position, just tells me what I already knew.
The gulf in ability is probably biggest weve seen when you compare the relegated clubs to rest of league.
Sell some players, bring balance back to the squad, should easily finish top 3.
Love how you can sneak Bamford into every comment Batty 🤣
Looks like Chelsea are going to trigger Adams release clause of 20m. Use that money to reinvest.
Making a 5 million loss on a cracking little player like Adams. Never change Leeds
Linked to Nat Phillips again and Greek centre back from the Eredivisie, Chatzidiakos.
comment by Shaun M - 99 injuries and Bamford's 1 (U9955)
posted 19 minutes ago
Making a 5 million loss on a cracking little player like Adams. Never change Leeds
Linked to Nat Phillips again and Greek centre back from the Eredivisie, Chatzidiakos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We will be making a profit on him and it’s exactly around the right level for a relegation release clause.
All of them should have been set around what we paid or possibly slightly lower.
No stupid loan clauses.
Incentives required to convince player to accept wage reduction upon relegation. Note I didn’t say to sign for Leeds.
Wage reductions are required to minimise financial impact of relegation.
Without wage reductions you’re stuck with players like Firpo on much higher wages. And you can’t afford to keep Adams anyway because of that.
Well, that's football. If Adams wants to go, good luck to him, although I'd say he may struggle for game-time at Chelsea. We don't want anyone who doesn't want to be there. I'm expecting the club to reinvest whatever they get for him in a striker as soon as possible.
Jeez but this is such a schittshow!
Love how you can sneak Bamford into every comment Batty 🤣
^^^
As much as I like a few of our players brought in post
Bielsa, I'm not emotionally attached to them like I am/
was with quite a few of the Bielsa and pre-Bielsa lads.
(Pablo being one of the biggest losses as a fan)
Not fussed if every post-Bielsa player leaves. As long
as we can get as much money back on them as
possible to help Farke.
comment by Batty (U4664)
posted 39 minutes ago
As much as I like a few of our players brought in post
Bielsa, I'm not emotionally attached to them like I am/
was with quite a few of the Bielsa and pre-Bielsa lads.
(Pablo being one of the biggest losses as a fan)
Not fussed if every post-Bielsa player leaves. As long
as we can get as much money back on them as
possible to help Farke.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No the post-Bielsa bunch have done nothing to warrant the love and respect of fans (in fact, the opposite) - while virtually every member of that promotion-winning squad will be held in affection.
comment by Shaun M - 99 injuries and Bamford's 1 (U9955)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Making a 5 million loss on a cracking little player like Adams. Never change Leeds
Linked to Nat Phillips again and Greek centre back from the Eredivisie, Chatzidiakos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Better than losing 40 million on JKA
Or Brighton getting 80 mil for Caceido who aint 4 times better than Adams and cost them a third of what we paid for Adams. Were absolute mugs
comment by Shaun M - 99 injuries and Bamford's 1 (U9955)
posted 33 minutes ago
Or Brighton getting 80 mil for Caceido who aint 4 times better than Adams and cost them a third of what we paid for Adams. Were absolute mugs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brighton haven’t been relegated. You don’t understand the situation or how a relegation release clause works.
To be clear the club would much rather not have any relegation release clauses.
But they are part of the negotiation on the players side when the club want the player to accept a relegation wage cut.
The player is never going to accept a relegation release clause that maxes his value because that would render the clause meaningless. There would be no advantage for the player.
Clubs can’t afford to be relegated with the full premier league salary.
Caicedo almost certainly has a relegation release clause closer to £20m than the offers they are rejecting now. But Brighton didn’t get relegated so it’s irrelevant.
Farke has pretty much said we need to sell to buy because there haven’t been funds coming in with all these loans. The EFL are much stricter with FFP than the PL are, so the club do need to be careful, undoubtedly going to make a loss regardless of transfers with the high wage bill.
If Adams goes for £20mil that’s good thing, it should allow us to bring in 2 players. Nat Phillips would be a brilliant signing.
comment by Best fans - Leeds Carajo (U2196)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Farke has pretty much said we need to sell to buy because there haven’t been funds coming in with all these loans. The EFL are much stricter with FFP than the PL are, so the club do need to be careful, undoubtedly going to make a loss regardless of transfers with the high wage bill.
If Adams goes for £20mil that’s good thing, it should allow us to bring in 2 players. Nat Phillips would be a brilliant signing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we find out that Adams goes for a fee above his release clause so that Chelsea can spread the payments out over a few years it will suggest that FFP is the problem and not cash flow.
Be reassuring to hear that Chelsea offer £25m and pay over 4 years so that they don’t have to pay the £20m up front and that we accept.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 22 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by LeedsFanFor49Years (U6871)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
Commentators on game yesterday mentioned that Mancini told Gnonto that he won't play for Italy unless he's playing for a team in the top division.
Disgraceful of Mancini if true and makes it very tough to keep Gnonto.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why?
He wants his player to develop and feels he’d develop better against higher calibre opposition.
<snip>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mancini may want Gnonto to face harder opposition, but the player is OURS not HIS.
I didn't see Gnonto being particularly successful against Championship-level players on Sunday, so at his age his development ought to continue regardless of which league he's in.
I wouldn't want to hold Gnonto back if he wanted to move to a Prem team, however I thought it unfair to our club that Mancini seemed to be forcing the issue.
I agree with the comment by Outwood White that commentators often speak tripe, so perhaps not getting worked-up about?
...so perhaps not worth getting worked-up about
comment by LeedsFanFor49Years (U6871)
posted 1 minute ago
...so perhaps not worth getting worked-up about
----------------------------------------------------------------------
he's our player so it bugs me that his hobby gets priority over his paying job.
And as most internationals are pointless friendlies anyway, the disruption they cause to club fixtures is a bit irksome.
Assuming the £17m purchase price for Adams is correct.
He will be currently valued at £10.2m on the books.
Incurring a further loss of £3.4m this season.
So sell for £20m and we make a profit of £9.8m & save a loss of £3.4m for this season and the next 2.
Net gain of £13.2m this season on transfer alone.
In theory will allow us to purchase players up to £52.8m on 4 year contracts without increasing our transfer spend according to the rules of FFP.
However that will have committed us to a further spend of £13.2m for the next 3 years against a saving of £3.4m for the next 2 and none for the last.
This would force us into more sales next season just to break even, not spend. This is assuming that we do not get promoted and that we are at the FFP limit currently.
Also simplified as does not take into account player wages etc.
Nice one, HaveFaith - you're doing a great job in explaining this bollox.
I do still have faith in our club but boy it's hard work maintaining it when I begin to understand all the bollox that management have been loading onto the club over the long term (next four/five years). The JKA and Rutter debacles are just extreme examples but this bollox seems to have permeated so many of the players' contractual negotiations.
I'm sick to death of hearing about how short a career in football can be and how players need to max every opportunity. They get paid shedloads, a lifetime's revenue in 20 years. Enough is enough ffs.
Of course, it needs regulation. This is monopoly capitalism at its very worst. Inevitably ends up with rubbish services and products that ordinary people have to pay through the nose for.
Sign in if you want to comment
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Page 2 of 3
posted on 7/8/23
comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پا... (U2805)
posted 5 minutes ago
No people know exactly how we’ve lined up. Also know that he was playing slightly higher, but certainly no higher than Bielsa says. Defensively Ayling has been absolutely shocking - he cost us many goals in that spell of 7/8 games when we conceded a lot -
And some of that was under Fat Sam’s park the bus tactics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its a completely different role as to what Bielsa wanted his FBs to do, to be honest. I've seen this argument around. Bielsa wanted his FBs to be attacking, yes, but he wanted them to pick the ball up deep and move it forward from those positions, either by driving forward with it (which Ayling has been very good at) or by working it up the pitch.
Farke has the FBs start much higher (see my formations above) and receive the ball in those advanced positions. That requires defenders that can play the ball quickly, which requires balanced CBs that are passing out on their natural side.
posted on 7/8/23
comment by Lubo - Gyabi, you're gonna be the one tha... (U14008)
posted 4 minutes ago
---------------Meslier
------Struijk-----------Cooper
------Gray--------------Ampadu
-------------------------------------Hjelde
Ayling---Sini---Cree---Gnonto-----------James
This is me articulating how I viewed the formation first half. Its a poor set-up. There's the obvious lack of balance, not helped by out of position players. Felt like a few that didn't really understand where they were meant to be operating. Much better in the second.
------------------Meslier
-------Cresswell------Struijk
---------Gray---------Ampadu
Ayling--------Summerville-----Byram
--------Sinisterra------------James
-----------------Gnonto
Far more balance to that, and its helped by having a LWB who understands the position they need to hold, and having players that are more effectively able to quickly play the ball out of the back 2.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. That’s how I saw both halves. Ayling was left out to dry working that wing alone first half. He got no cover whatsoever.
Second half was much better when Creswell came on, Byram allowed James to do what he does best and Ayling got some help.
I’m sure Farke will adjust things to suit.
Ayling might have cost us a few goals last season but to be honest the whole team have to take responsibility for that debacle. Just a shame so many of those responsible have bottled it and left on loan. At least Bill steps up to the plate.
posted on 7/8/23
Side note; found it a bit odd that we weren’t rushing to kick off again. Prolonged celebrations against a rubbish team to save a point in the second division.
Found that strange too, although the ref did allow an extra couple of minutes in addition to the +6...If I'm honest I had the feeling Cardiff were going to score at the death.
posted on 7/8/23
Theoretically, the addition of realistic stoppage time means that it shouldn't matter how long you celebrate.
That being said, I think a 96th minute equaliser is always something to celebrate, regardless of the percieved quality of the opposition.
posted on 7/8/23
Ayling is a glaring liability. If we somehow get promoted
back up to the Prem, no way Ayling's starting. So why
waste time on a 31 year old, quickly diminishing player?
Get Drameh in and see what we have. If he's crap,
deal with it once we know. Standing by Bamford and
Bill and hoping they'll somehow get better or less glass
is football insanity.
posted on 7/8/23
Thought Ayling played well, the tactics were poor for me.
To dominate in such a way, whilst having that formation and so many players playing out of position, just tells me what I already knew.
The gulf in ability is probably biggest weve seen when you compare the relegated clubs to rest of league.
Sell some players, bring balance back to the squad, should easily finish top 3.
Love how you can sneak Bamford into every comment Batty 🤣
posted on 7/8/23
Looks like Chelsea are going to trigger Adams release clause of 20m. Use that money to reinvest.
posted on 7/8/23
Making a 5 million loss on a cracking little player like Adams. Never change Leeds
Linked to Nat Phillips again and Greek centre back from the Eredivisie, Chatzidiakos.
posted on 7/8/23
comment by Shaun M - 99 injuries and Bamford's 1 (U9955)
posted 19 minutes ago
Making a 5 million loss on a cracking little player like Adams. Never change Leeds
Linked to Nat Phillips again and Greek centre back from the Eredivisie, Chatzidiakos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We will be making a profit on him and it’s exactly around the right level for a relegation release clause.
All of them should have been set around what we paid or possibly slightly lower.
No stupid loan clauses.
Incentives required to convince player to accept wage reduction upon relegation. Note I didn’t say to sign for Leeds.
Wage reductions are required to minimise financial impact of relegation.
Without wage reductions you’re stuck with players like Firpo on much higher wages. And you can’t afford to keep Adams anyway because of that.
posted on 7/8/23
Well, that's football. If Adams wants to go, good luck to him, although I'd say he may struggle for game-time at Chelsea. We don't want anyone who doesn't want to be there. I'm expecting the club to reinvest whatever they get for him in a striker as soon as possible.
Jeez but this is such a schittshow!
posted on 7/8/23
Love how you can sneak Bamford into every comment Batty 🤣
^^^
posted on 7/8/23
As much as I like a few of our players brought in post
Bielsa, I'm not emotionally attached to them like I am/
was with quite a few of the Bielsa and pre-Bielsa lads.
(Pablo being one of the biggest losses as a fan)
Not fussed if every post-Bielsa player leaves. As long
as we can get as much money back on them as
possible to help Farke.
posted on 8/8/23
comment by Batty (U4664)
posted 39 minutes ago
As much as I like a few of our players brought in post
Bielsa, I'm not emotionally attached to them like I am/
was with quite a few of the Bielsa and pre-Bielsa lads.
(Pablo being one of the biggest losses as a fan)
Not fussed if every post-Bielsa player leaves. As long
as we can get as much money back on them as
possible to help Farke.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No the post-Bielsa bunch have done nothing to warrant the love and respect of fans (in fact, the opposite) - while virtually every member of that promotion-winning squad will be held in affection.
posted on 8/8/23
comment by Shaun M - 99 injuries and Bamford's 1 (U9955)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Making a 5 million loss on a cracking little player like Adams. Never change Leeds
Linked to Nat Phillips again and Greek centre back from the Eredivisie, Chatzidiakos.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Better than losing 40 million on JKA
posted on 8/8/23
Or Brighton getting 80 mil for Caceido who aint 4 times better than Adams and cost them a third of what we paid for Adams. Were absolute mugs
posted on 8/8/23
comment by Shaun M - 99 injuries and Bamford's 1 (U9955)
posted 33 minutes ago
Or Brighton getting 80 mil for Caceido who aint 4 times better than Adams and cost them a third of what we paid for Adams. Were absolute mugs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brighton haven’t been relegated. You don’t understand the situation or how a relegation release clause works.
To be clear the club would much rather not have any relegation release clauses.
But they are part of the negotiation on the players side when the club want the player to accept a relegation wage cut.
The player is never going to accept a relegation release clause that maxes his value because that would render the clause meaningless. There would be no advantage for the player.
Clubs can’t afford to be relegated with the full premier league salary.
Caicedo almost certainly has a relegation release clause closer to £20m than the offers they are rejecting now. But Brighton didn’t get relegated so it’s irrelevant.
posted on 8/8/23
Farke has pretty much said we need to sell to buy because there haven’t been funds coming in with all these loans. The EFL are much stricter with FFP than the PL are, so the club do need to be careful, undoubtedly going to make a loss regardless of transfers with the high wage bill.
If Adams goes for £20mil that’s good thing, it should allow us to bring in 2 players. Nat Phillips would be a brilliant signing.
posted on 8/8/23
comment by Best fans - Leeds Carajo (U2196)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
Farke has pretty much said we need to sell to buy because there haven’t been funds coming in with all these loans. The EFL are much stricter with FFP than the PL are, so the club do need to be careful, undoubtedly going to make a loss regardless of transfers with the high wage bill.
If Adams goes for £20mil that’s good thing, it should allow us to bring in 2 players. Nat Phillips would be a brilliant signing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we find out that Adams goes for a fee above his release clause so that Chelsea can spread the payments out over a few years it will suggest that FFP is the problem and not cash flow.
Be reassuring to hear that Chelsea offer £25m and pay over 4 years so that they don’t have to pay the £20m up front and that we accept.
posted on 8/8/23
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 22 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by LeedsFanFor49Years (U6871)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
Commentators on game yesterday mentioned that Mancini told Gnonto that he won't play for Italy unless he's playing for a team in the top division.
Disgraceful of Mancini if true and makes it very tough to keep Gnonto.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why?
He wants his player to develop and feels he’d develop better against higher calibre opposition.
<snip>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mancini may want Gnonto to face harder opposition, but the player is OURS not HIS.
I didn't see Gnonto being particularly successful against Championship-level players on Sunday, so at his age his development ought to continue regardless of which league he's in.
I wouldn't want to hold Gnonto back if he wanted to move to a Prem team, however I thought it unfair to our club that Mancini seemed to be forcing the issue.
I agree with the comment by Outwood White that commentators often speak tripe, so perhaps not getting worked-up about?
posted on 8/8/23
...so perhaps not worth getting worked-up about
posted on 8/8/23
comment by LeedsFanFor49Years (U6871)
posted 1 minute ago
...so perhaps not worth getting worked-up about
----------------------------------------------------------------------
he's our player so it bugs me that his hobby gets priority over his paying job.
posted on 8/8/23
And as most internationals are pointless friendlies anyway, the disruption they cause to club fixtures is a bit irksome.
posted on 8/8/23
Assuming the £17m purchase price for Adams is correct.
He will be currently valued at £10.2m on the books.
Incurring a further loss of £3.4m this season.
So sell for £20m and we make a profit of £9.8m & save a loss of £3.4m for this season and the next 2.
Net gain of £13.2m this season on transfer alone.
In theory will allow us to purchase players up to £52.8m on 4 year contracts without increasing our transfer spend according to the rules of FFP.
However that will have committed us to a further spend of £13.2m for the next 3 years against a saving of £3.4m for the next 2 and none for the last.
This would force us into more sales next season just to break even, not spend. This is assuming that we do not get promoted and that we are at the FFP limit currently.
Also simplified as does not take into account player wages etc.
posted on 8/8/23
Nice one, HaveFaith - you're doing a great job in explaining this bollox.
I do still have faith in our club but boy it's hard work maintaining it when I begin to understand all the bollox that management have been loading onto the club over the long term (next four/five years). The JKA and Rutter debacles are just extreme examples but this bollox seems to have permeated so many of the players' contractual negotiations.
I'm sick to death of hearing about how short a career in football can be and how players need to max every opportunity. They get paid shedloads, a lifetime's revenue in 20 years. Enough is enough ffs.
posted on 8/8/23
Of course, it needs regulation. This is monopoly capitalism at its very worst. Inevitably ends up with rubbish services and products that ordinary people have to pay through the nose for.
Page 2 of 3