comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also an intricate plan to only place certain fossils in certain parts of the world!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
old trafford?
https://youtu.be/wNYP-5NQBQw
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Clockwork Red: With or Wout You (U4892)
posted 6 seconds ago
But here this are repeat offenders... With no remorse for their actions... We are talking about a first-time offender here... Would you dad have thrown you our the first time you did this? Highly unlikely...
Fool me twice... then yeah, you wouldn't here a pip from me...
-----------
Assuming an offence was indeed committed, how do we know it's his first offence?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the point... none of us know the full details of this, yet we are all quick to pass judgment. Yet people with more information have refrained (for whatever reason) for passing judgement...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you mean the CPS and the club? I don't know if "passing judgement" is quite their role here.
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 7 minutes ago
100
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This will be Irish’s legacy. The most ‘century’ posts.
comment by Ronaldo McDonaldo 2 (U8472)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
I’m going down the Megastore to get a shirt with his name on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And you are not taking no for an answer.
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 19 minutes ago
Based on what I’ve seen I can’t see how he can play again. That being said, is there supposedly evidence that hasn’t been made public that they could be basing the decision off of?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there is some additional information of any relevance to public opinion, or there exists some levels of sympathy within the club for MG based on genuine remorse and admission of personal failures, then we need to hear it, particularly from the player himself.
I don't see any credible way of proceeding with a reintegration of the player otherwise. The problem regarding a redemption arc for MG at the moment is that the fans & wider public have literally nothing to cling or point to other than a pretty horrendous audio recording & photos.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tomatoes, I'd question your assumption that staying at United is inherently better for Greenwood. It's all conjecture, but there's a world in which the protective PR of the club and return to football encourages him to believe he was the victim of this process, he doesn't learn from it, and, god forbid, the things we heard happen again. There's a world in which losing his job forces him to confront the implications of what he did and provides the impetus for genuine remorse and growth. We're not in a position to say what is best for Greenwood.
But while I do want him to rehabilitate and to go forth as a better man and lead a rewarding life, I'm more concerned with the implications of this for the victims of domestic abuse and people trapped in coercive and dangerous relationships. Because the way the club handles this will continue to make big waves in our discourse, and I think it's clear that many people will be influenced by a message from the club that either 'we don't tolerate this' or 'yes, we tolerate this' and the associated framing of Greenwood as kind of a victim of the situation. To use your words: "Now if you don't care about that... I do."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm waiting for Glazers to issue a response. I'm hoping it's not an immediate return to first team football. I'm hoping some sort of financial punishment is involved (he has been paid in full for this during all this due to the situation involved). I
hope they have put him in some retraining long before bringing him back.Their reasons will be foolish of course but if they do it right, it will help him.
Send home forth will not help him. Many who are very angry with him think that's the way. If he was 24, played with us and still did this, I may support this. He was 19. At his highest and most impressionable. He was always going to go astray, and tbh I blame the club for that tbh.
Also, do you know hes almost a lost cause. We went through this with Ravel. He hasn't played for 2 years, himself going through a very traumatic period (I know not as much as his wife but still..) no real emotional training you might get from basic schooling life. He was a regular team player at 17. Hes most likely going to be average or less. But the only hope he has to even find championship football is playing with us, and regularly for the next year.
You dont think hes a victim, almost always when someone this young does these, they are almost a product forces way beyond his control. I know we all assume he should know better, and nature-nuture balance in the blame of this has been well discussed but I refuse to believe a child is born to be a rapist and therefore at 19 should bare all the burden when he commits a crime. Same way I dont blame Ravel for how he ended up the way he is. We have to try. And unlike you, sending off is not the way. I have close to 80 cousins and I have stories of how simple cultural norms and bad parenting ruined a bunch of them. It's not so easy. Twitter-legal name and shame has not reduced the assault crimes. We need to start to really train children.
comment by Robb Matilda (U22716)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Matilda (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 seconds ago
Newsflash:
Manchester United isn't a criminal behaviour rehabilitation organisation. This is not among its core competences. It isn't a family, with an interpersonal support structure based on lifelong individual bonds. It's a large commercial organisation operating in a cut-throat business, which of course has a special duty of care to the minors participating in its academy and normal, statutorily-defined duty of care to its adult employees.
Manchester United is not responsible for Greenwood's behaviour, nor for his rehabilitation. He is an employee. He's a very wealthy man as a result of his contractual relationship with the club, and if he chooses to get help, he has the means to get the very best professional support available.
But let's just say he needs the club to facilitate his rehabilitation. Does anyone have confidence that an organisation which put in place media management plans that defined domestic abuse charities as hostiles has the motivation or ability to reform Greenwood's character, ensure he frankly confronts and rejects his past? I certainly don't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What glazers intent in all this is mute to me. Tbh, my position in this is all other people, including you is emotional. I am worried about Mason, I was worried about Ravel, I'm worried about Garnacho (a superstar with a young woman and piles of money, at 18!).
Mason is now married with child. His wife stayed. She married a superstar too. What happens when that changes? I'll never see sacking them now will be the best for him. Every single multimillion signing we make can leave like that. They'll get something new. But if we do this to Mason, he wont. You know it. Now if you dont care about that... I do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You need to find Jesus
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read a bible. "He who is without sin, cast the first stone"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about ‘an eye for an eye’?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, its clear you dont know who Jesus Christ is. Pls read.
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 7 minutes ago
100
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This will be Irish’s legacy. The most ‘century’ posts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That and being a drop dead ride
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 49 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tomatoes, I'd question your assumption that staying at United is inherently better for Greenwood. It's all conjecture, but there's a world in which the protective PR of the club and return to football encourages him to believe he was the victim of this process, he doesn't learn from it, and, god forbid, the things we heard happen again. There's a world in which losing his job forces him to confront the implications of what he did and provides the impetus for genuine remorse and growth. We're not in a position to say what is best for Greenwood.
But while I do want him to rehabilitate and to go forth as a better man and lead a rewarding life, I'm more concerned with the implications of this for the victims of domestic abuse and people trapped in coercive and dangerous relationships. Because the way the club handles this will continue to make big waves in our discourse, and I think it's clear that many people will be influenced by a message from the club that either 'we don't tolerate this' or 'yes, we tolerate this' and the associated framing of Greenwood as kind of a victim of the situation. To use your words: "Now if you don't care about that... I do."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm waiting for Glazers to issue a response. I'm hoping it's not an immediate return to first team football. I'm hoping some sort of financial punishment is involved (he has been paid in full for this during all this due to the situation involved). I
hope they have put him in some retraining long before bringing him back.Their reasons will be foolish of course but if they do it right, it will help him.
Send home forth will not help him. Many who are very angry with him think that's the way. If he was 24, played with us and still did this, I may support this. He was 19. At his highest and most impressionable. He was always going to go astray, and tbh I blame the club for that tbh.
Also, do you know hes almost a lost cause. We went through this with Ravel. He hasn't played for 2 years, himself going through a very traumatic period (I know not as much as his wife but still..) no real emotional training you might get from basic schooling life. He was a regular team player at 17. Hes most likely going to be average or less. But the only hope he has to even find championship football is playing with us, and regularly for the next year.
You dont think hes a victim, almost always when someone this young does these, they are almost a product forces way beyond his control. I know we all assume he should know better, and nature-nuture balance in the blame of this has been well discussed but I refuse to believe a child is born to be a rapist and therefore at 19 should bare all the burden when he commits a crime. Same way I dont blame Ravel for how he ended up the way he is. We have to try. And unlike you, sending off is not the way. I have close to 80 cousins and I have stories of how simple cultural norms and bad parenting ruined a bunch of them. It's not so easy. Twitter-legal name and shame has not reduced the assault crimes. We need to start to really train children.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And his parents? Shouldn't they be instilling a moral base, and school.
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 30 minutes ago
Based on what I’ve seen I can’t see how he can play again. That being said, is there supposedly evidence that hasn’t been made public that they could be basing the decision off of?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I really dont care for this. Hes committed something and should do through some form of training and punishment
If he comes back it'll be interesting how this plays out.
All we've seen so far is major companies bowing to the pressure. What will happen when one finally doesn't?
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 49 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tomatoes, I'd question your assumption that staying at United is inherently better for Greenwood. It's all conjecture, but there's a world in which the protective PR of the club and return to football encourages him to believe he was the victim of this process, he doesn't learn from it, and, god forbid, the things we heard happen again. There's a world in which losing his job forces him to confront the implications of what he did and provides the impetus for genuine remorse and growth. We're not in a position to say what is best for Greenwood.
But while I do want him to rehabilitate and to go forth as a better man and lead a rewarding life, I'm more concerned with the implications of this for the victims of domestic abuse and people trapped in coercive and dangerous relationships. Because the way the club handles this will continue to make big waves in our discourse, and I think it's clear that many people will be influenced by a message from the club that either 'we don't tolerate this' or 'yes, we tolerate this' and the associated framing of Greenwood as kind of a victim of the situation. To use your words: "Now if you don't care about that... I do."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm waiting for Glazers to issue a response. I'm hoping it's not an immediate return to first team football. I'm hoping some sort of financial punishment is involved (he has been paid in full for this during all this due to the situation involved). I
hope they have put him in some retraining long before bringing him back.Their reasons will be foolish of course but if they do it right, it will help him.
Send home forth will not help him. Many who are very angry with him think that's the way. If he was 24, played with us and still did this, I may support this. He was 19. At his highest and most impressionable. He was always going to go astray, and tbh I blame the club for that tbh.
Also, do you know hes almost a lost cause. We went through this with Ravel. He hasn't played for 2 years, himself going through a very traumatic period (I know not as much as his wife but still..) no real emotional training you might get from basic schooling life. He was a regular team player at 17. Hes most likely going to be average or less. But the only hope he has to even find championship football is playing with us, and regularly for the next year.
You dont think hes a victim, almost always when someone this young does these, they are almost a product forces way beyond his control. I know we all assume he should know better, and nature-nuture balance in the blame of this has been well discussed but I refuse to believe a child is born to be a rapist and therefore at 19 should bare all the burden when he commits a crime. Same way I dont blame Ravel for how he ended up the way he is. We have to try. And unlike you, sending off is not the way. I have close to 80 cousins and I have stories of how simple cultural norms and bad parenting ruined a bunch of them. It's not so easy. Twitter-legal name and shame has not reduced the assault crimes. We need to start to really train children.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And his parents? Shouldn't they be instilling a moral base, and school.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, they sent their kid to footballing school st 7. Not to be that person but I have a lot if problems with the new sporting academy model in football and all other sports that lead to professional training at a teenage level. Especially the really good ones. Look at basketball NBA, baseball too.
It takes a lot of things to raise a reasonable child these days. I think it was easier without the social media pressure but now is so hard.
Back to parenting. My child is not going to any sporting academy at an age of 16. And even then, she has to really want it. I dont know how Mason was parented. But him training at 7? Playing premier league at 17? I have said earlier I'm worried about Garnacho.
Tomatoes, Greenwood may well be a troubled young man, and I can feel sympathy for him if he is, and particularly for any emotional trauma he might have undergone before he became than man we heard in that audio. I do hope that if he needs help, he gets it. Even more importantly, I very much hope he doesn't ever treat another human being that way again, and if external intervention can help that process, I hope that materialises.
But you seem singularly focused on Greenwood as a stakeholder in this story. Do you have nothing at all to say about the way a reinstatement would reverberate out in the rest of the world? Do you not think women trapped in dangerous relationships and self-pitying men who are inclined to hurt and bully the women they live with won't notice what the club decides? Don't you think the abused might feel a little bit less hopeful that the world will stand up for them, and abusers might feel a little bit more justification and impunity? Does it not trouble you that the club recognises domestic abuse charities will be 'hostile'?
By the way, the club has emphasised the importance of pastoral care for years, and as far as I can see most of the academy products we've turned out have been pretty well rounded individuals. Developing into a professional footballer necessitates going through a hugely competitive, pressurised environment from an early age. That's a lot of strain on any human being. The fact that most of them turn out emotionally balanced is pretty much proof that our club, and others, put a lot of effort into their psychological welfare.
'the true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members'.
Hint: not millionaire footballers
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 47 minutes ago
If he comes back it'll be interesting how this plays out.
All we've seen so far is major companies bowing to the pressure. What will happen when one finally doesn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically the apocalypse. It’s been our mission all along, hence the devil tie in.
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 47 minutes ago
If he comes back it'll be interesting how this plays out.
All we've seen so far is major companies bowing to the pressure. What will happen when one finally doesn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically the apocalypse. It’s been our mission all along, hence the devil tie in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure you'll be ready with your shotgun 😉
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 45 minutes ago
Tomatoes, Greenwood may well be a troubled young man, and I can feel sympathy for him if he is, and particularly for any emotional trauma he might have undergone before he became than man we heard in that audio. I do hope that if he needs help, he gets it. Even more importantly, I very much hope he doesn't ever treat another human being that way again, and if external intervention can help that process, I hope that materialises.
But you seem singularly focused on Greenwood as a stakeholder in this story. Do you have nothing at all to say about the way a reinstatement would reverberate out in the rest of the world? Do you not think women trapped in dangerous relationships and self-pitying men who are inclined to hurt and bully the women they live with won't notice what the club decides? Don't you think the abused might feel a little bit less hopeful that the world will stand up for them, and abusers might feel a little bit more justification and impunity? Does it not trouble you that the club recognises domestic abuse charities will be 'hostile'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR I wish the wife went through with the case and he was found guilty. It would make this much easier. They are the most balanced and a lot of what we dont know would be public. Its something Mason, wife and witnesses seem to not want made public. Neither should any decision made by the only ones who have heard it be adjudged on our clearly limited perspective
But it wasn't. This was left to Man utd. I know many (and very focal) section of its supporters expect them to morally compliant. Sadly they have many other priorities, mostly financial, mostly they think they can get away with it.
To me, his age, his now new wife and kids makes the intent of the actions different from what a court or public opinion has for him (the vocal one at least). It cannot rest solely or mostly to the stakeholders. In a Twitter age of things, many cry more than the bereaved...
Rape is real, assault is real should be addressed. But the ups and downs of a relationship like this is also real. They are never balanced or perfect. If he wasn't a man utd player, you would let him try to deal with everything and get himself back to work and the rounds heal. I would like for the club to adjudicate this way. It is not here to stop all the rapes in the world. In fact that is the slipperiest slope the club will take. We are not the only club with assault cases at the moment. Many still played their players till a case has been started. We didn't. I remembered the dog issue with west ham. That felt a lot like this, and how they handled it was good for the player and club in the long run. Punished him and got him back playing. I really think we should do the same.
Btw, if any of you thinks he has somehow gone unscathed, or it's not enough, that's ok. Acknowledge he has gone through something though. I get a sneaky feeling, many would feel like this after a court case actually done. I'm saying we can move on and watch football. It sounds glib but it's better to do that than talk about this all the time.
I remembered the dog issue with west ham.
__________
Not very well, since it was a cat.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 hours, 6 minutes ago
By the way, the club has emphasised the importance of pastoral care for years, and as far as I can see most of the academy products we've turned out have been pretty well rounded individuals. Developing into a professional footballer necessitates going through a hugely competitive, pressurised environment from an early age. That's a lot of strain on any human being. The fact that most of them turn out emotionally balanced is pretty much proof that our club, and others, put a lot of effort into their psychological welfare.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll suggest you read up on the chaos involved in managing a young superstar talent at a young age. Every other one you are referring to had a normal youth, their speed of development were average. Many did not get a multimillion contract at 18 and constantly analysed, criticised, dismissed even. And trust me every one of them sees it on social media. Let's talk less to their involvement with women at that age with that popularity. Take a look at child stars for example. We cannot call them the same with a normal player. I support loans for young player one reason; the difference in atmosphere. We can't teach that as trainers.
comment by Clockwork Red: With or Wout You (U4892)
posted 14 minutes ago
I remembered the dog issue with west ham.
__________
Not very well, since it was a cat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lmao it was a cat? I reserve my comments
Rumours mounting of club U-turn
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 30 minutes ago
Rumours mounting of club U-turn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where you hearing that?
Twitter: some United journalists
Sign in if you want to comment
More details on Greenwood return
Page 5 of 6
6
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And also an intricate plan to only place certain fossils in certain parts of the world!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
old trafford?
posted on 18/8/23
https://youtu.be/wNYP-5NQBQw
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Onana_banana_fi_fa_fofana (U20611)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Clockwork Red: With or Wout You (U4892)
posted 6 seconds ago
But here this are repeat offenders... With no remorse for their actions... We are talking about a first-time offender here... Would you dad have thrown you our the first time you did this? Highly unlikely...
Fool me twice... then yeah, you wouldn't here a pip from me...
-----------
Assuming an offence was indeed committed, how do we know it's his first offence?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly the point... none of us know the full details of this, yet we are all quick to pass judgment. Yet people with more information have refrained (for whatever reason) for passing judgement...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you mean the CPS and the club? I don't know if "passing judgement" is quite their role here.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 7 minutes ago
100
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This will be Irish’s legacy. The most ‘century’ posts.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Ronaldo McDonaldo 2 (U8472)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
I’m going down the Megastore to get a shirt with his name on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And you are not taking no for an answer.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 19 minutes ago
Based on what I’ve seen I can’t see how he can play again. That being said, is there supposedly evidence that hasn’t been made public that they could be basing the decision off of?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If there is some additional information of any relevance to public opinion, or there exists some levels of sympathy within the club for MG based on genuine remorse and admission of personal failures, then we need to hear it, particularly from the player himself.
I don't see any credible way of proceeding with a reintegration of the player otherwise. The problem regarding a redemption arc for MG at the moment is that the fans & wider public have literally nothing to cling or point to other than a pretty horrendous audio recording & photos.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tomatoes, I'd question your assumption that staying at United is inherently better for Greenwood. It's all conjecture, but there's a world in which the protective PR of the club and return to football encourages him to believe he was the victim of this process, he doesn't learn from it, and, god forbid, the things we heard happen again. There's a world in which losing his job forces him to confront the implications of what he did and provides the impetus for genuine remorse and growth. We're not in a position to say what is best for Greenwood.
But while I do want him to rehabilitate and to go forth as a better man and lead a rewarding life, I'm more concerned with the implications of this for the victims of domestic abuse and people trapped in coercive and dangerous relationships. Because the way the club handles this will continue to make big waves in our discourse, and I think it's clear that many people will be influenced by a message from the club that either 'we don't tolerate this' or 'yes, we tolerate this' and the associated framing of Greenwood as kind of a victim of the situation. To use your words: "Now if you don't care about that... I do."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm waiting for Glazers to issue a response. I'm hoping it's not an immediate return to first team football. I'm hoping some sort of financial punishment is involved (he has been paid in full for this during all this due to the situation involved). I
hope they have put him in some retraining long before bringing him back.Their reasons will be foolish of course but if they do it right, it will help him.
Send home forth will not help him. Many who are very angry with him think that's the way. If he was 24, played with us and still did this, I may support this. He was 19. At his highest and most impressionable. He was always going to go astray, and tbh I blame the club for that tbh.
Also, do you know hes almost a lost cause. We went through this with Ravel. He hasn't played for 2 years, himself going through a very traumatic period (I know not as much as his wife but still..) no real emotional training you might get from basic schooling life. He was a regular team player at 17. Hes most likely going to be average or less. But the only hope he has to even find championship football is playing with us, and regularly for the next year.
You dont think hes a victim, almost always when someone this young does these, they are almost a product forces way beyond his control. I know we all assume he should know better, and nature-nuture balance in the blame of this has been well discussed but I refuse to believe a child is born to be a rapist and therefore at 19 should bare all the burden when he commits a crime. Same way I dont blame Ravel for how he ended up the way he is. We have to try. And unlike you, sending off is not the way. I have close to 80 cousins and I have stories of how simple cultural norms and bad parenting ruined a bunch of them. It's not so easy. Twitter-legal name and shame has not reduced the assault crimes. We need to start to really train children.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Robb Matilda (U22716)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Matilda (U22716)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 15 seconds ago
Newsflash:
Manchester United isn't a criminal behaviour rehabilitation organisation. This is not among its core competences. It isn't a family, with an interpersonal support structure based on lifelong individual bonds. It's a large commercial organisation operating in a cut-throat business, which of course has a special duty of care to the minors participating in its academy and normal, statutorily-defined duty of care to its adult employees.
Manchester United is not responsible for Greenwood's behaviour, nor for his rehabilitation. He is an employee. He's a very wealthy man as a result of his contractual relationship with the club, and if he chooses to get help, he has the means to get the very best professional support available.
But let's just say he needs the club to facilitate his rehabilitation. Does anyone have confidence that an organisation which put in place media management plans that defined domestic abuse charities as hostiles has the motivation or ability to reform Greenwood's character, ensure he frankly confronts and rejects his past? I certainly don't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What glazers intent in all this is mute to me. Tbh, my position in this is all other people, including you is emotional. I am worried about Mason, I was worried about Ravel, I'm worried about Garnacho (a superstar with a young woman and piles of money, at 18!).
Mason is now married with child. His wife stayed. She married a superstar too. What happens when that changes? I'll never see sacking them now will be the best for him. Every single multimillion signing we make can leave like that. They'll get something new. But if we do this to Mason, he wont. You know it. Now if you dont care about that... I do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You need to find Jesus
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read a bible. "He who is without sin, cast the first stone"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about ‘an eye for an eye’?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, its clear you dont know who Jesus Christ is. Pls read.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 7 minutes ago
100
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This will be Irish’s legacy. The most ‘century’ posts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That and being a drop dead ride
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 49 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tomatoes, I'd question your assumption that staying at United is inherently better for Greenwood. It's all conjecture, but there's a world in which the protective PR of the club and return to football encourages him to believe he was the victim of this process, he doesn't learn from it, and, god forbid, the things we heard happen again. There's a world in which losing his job forces him to confront the implications of what he did and provides the impetus for genuine remorse and growth. We're not in a position to say what is best for Greenwood.
But while I do want him to rehabilitate and to go forth as a better man and lead a rewarding life, I'm more concerned with the implications of this for the victims of domestic abuse and people trapped in coercive and dangerous relationships. Because the way the club handles this will continue to make big waves in our discourse, and I think it's clear that many people will be influenced by a message from the club that either 'we don't tolerate this' or 'yes, we tolerate this' and the associated framing of Greenwood as kind of a victim of the situation. To use your words: "Now if you don't care about that... I do."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm waiting for Glazers to issue a response. I'm hoping it's not an immediate return to first team football. I'm hoping some sort of financial punishment is involved (he has been paid in full for this during all this due to the situation involved). I
hope they have put him in some retraining long before bringing him back.Their reasons will be foolish of course but if they do it right, it will help him.
Send home forth will not help him. Many who are very angry with him think that's the way. If he was 24, played with us and still did this, I may support this. He was 19. At his highest and most impressionable. He was always going to go astray, and tbh I blame the club for that tbh.
Also, do you know hes almost a lost cause. We went through this with Ravel. He hasn't played for 2 years, himself going through a very traumatic period (I know not as much as his wife but still..) no real emotional training you might get from basic schooling life. He was a regular team player at 17. Hes most likely going to be average or less. But the only hope he has to even find championship football is playing with us, and regularly for the next year.
You dont think hes a victim, almost always when someone this young does these, they are almost a product forces way beyond his control. I know we all assume he should know better, and nature-nuture balance in the blame of this has been well discussed but I refuse to believe a child is born to be a rapist and therefore at 19 should bare all the burden when he commits a crime. Same way I dont blame Ravel for how he ended up the way he is. We have to try. And unlike you, sending off is not the way. I have close to 80 cousins and I have stories of how simple cultural norms and bad parenting ruined a bunch of them. It's not so easy. Twitter-legal name and shame has not reduced the assault crimes. We need to start to really train children.
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And his parents? Shouldn't they be instilling a moral base, and school.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 30 minutes ago
Based on what I’ve seen I can’t see how he can play again. That being said, is there supposedly evidence that hasn’t been made public that they could be basing the decision off of?
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I really dont care for this. Hes committed something and should do through some form of training and punishment
posted on 18/8/23
If he comes back it'll be interesting how this plays out.
All we've seen so far is major companies bowing to the pressure. What will happen when one finally doesn't?
posted on 18/8/23
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson forever!If he is good enough he is ready! (U12026)
posted 49 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Tomatoes, I'd question your assumption that staying at United is inherently better for Greenwood. It's all conjecture, but there's a world in which the protective PR of the club and return to football encourages him to believe he was the victim of this process, he doesn't learn from it, and, god forbid, the things we heard happen again. There's a world in which losing his job forces him to confront the implications of what he did and provides the impetus for genuine remorse and growth. We're not in a position to say what is best for Greenwood.
But while I do want him to rehabilitate and to go forth as a better man and lead a rewarding life, I'm more concerned with the implications of this for the victims of domestic abuse and people trapped in coercive and dangerous relationships. Because the way the club handles this will continue to make big waves in our discourse, and I think it's clear that many people will be influenced by a message from the club that either 'we don't tolerate this' or 'yes, we tolerate this' and the associated framing of Greenwood as kind of a victim of the situation. To use your words: "Now if you don't care about that... I do."
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I'm waiting for Glazers to issue a response. I'm hoping it's not an immediate return to first team football. I'm hoping some sort of financial punishment is involved (he has been paid in full for this during all this due to the situation involved). I
hope they have put him in some retraining long before bringing him back.Their reasons will be foolish of course but if they do it right, it will help him.
Send home forth will not help him. Many who are very angry with him think that's the way. If he was 24, played with us and still did this, I may support this. He was 19. At his highest and most impressionable. He was always going to go astray, and tbh I blame the club for that tbh.
Also, do you know hes almost a lost cause. We went through this with Ravel. He hasn't played for 2 years, himself going through a very traumatic period (I know not as much as his wife but still..) no real emotional training you might get from basic schooling life. He was a regular team player at 17. Hes most likely going to be average or less. But the only hope he has to even find championship football is playing with us, and regularly for the next year.
You dont think hes a victim, almost always when someone this young does these, they are almost a product forces way beyond his control. I know we all assume he should know better, and nature-nuture balance in the blame of this has been well discussed but I refuse to believe a child is born to be a rapist and therefore at 19 should bare all the burden when he commits a crime. Same way I dont blame Ravel for how he ended up the way he is. We have to try. And unlike you, sending off is not the way. I have close to 80 cousins and I have stories of how simple cultural norms and bad parenting ruined a bunch of them. It's not so easy. Twitter-legal name and shame has not reduced the assault crimes. We need to start to really train children.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And his parents? Shouldn't they be instilling a moral base, and school.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, they sent their kid to footballing school st 7. Not to be that person but I have a lot if problems with the new sporting academy model in football and all other sports that lead to professional training at a teenage level. Especially the really good ones. Look at basketball NBA, baseball too.
It takes a lot of things to raise a reasonable child these days. I think it was easier without the social media pressure but now is so hard.
Back to parenting. My child is not going to any sporting academy at an age of 16. And even then, she has to really want it. I dont know how Mason was parented. But him training at 7? Playing premier league at 17? I have said earlier I'm worried about Garnacho.
posted on 18/8/23
Tomatoes, Greenwood may well be a troubled young man, and I can feel sympathy for him if he is, and particularly for any emotional trauma he might have undergone before he became than man we heard in that audio. I do hope that if he needs help, he gets it. Even more importantly, I very much hope he doesn't ever treat another human being that way again, and if external intervention can help that process, I hope that materialises.
But you seem singularly focused on Greenwood as a stakeholder in this story. Do you have nothing at all to say about the way a reinstatement would reverberate out in the rest of the world? Do you not think women trapped in dangerous relationships and self-pitying men who are inclined to hurt and bully the women they live with won't notice what the club decides? Don't you think the abused might feel a little bit less hopeful that the world will stand up for them, and abusers might feel a little bit more justification and impunity? Does it not trouble you that the club recognises domestic abuse charities will be 'hostile'?
posted on 18/8/23
By the way, the club has emphasised the importance of pastoral care for years, and as far as I can see most of the academy products we've turned out have been pretty well rounded individuals. Developing into a professional footballer necessitates going through a hugely competitive, pressurised environment from an early age. That's a lot of strain on any human being. The fact that most of them turn out emotionally balanced is pretty much proof that our club, and others, put a lot of effort into their psychological welfare.
posted on 18/8/23
'the true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members'.
Hint: not millionaire footballers
posted on 18/8/23
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 47 minutes ago
If he comes back it'll be interesting how this plays out.
All we've seen so far is major companies bowing to the pressure. What will happen when one finally doesn't?
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Basically the apocalypse. It’s been our mission all along, hence the devil tie in.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Baz tard (U19119)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 47 minutes ago
If he comes back it'll be interesting how this plays out.
All we've seen so far is major companies bowing to the pressure. What will happen when one finally doesn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically the apocalypse. It’s been our mission all along, hence the devil tie in.
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I'm sure you'll be ready with your shotgun 😉
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 45 minutes ago
Tomatoes, Greenwood may well be a troubled young man, and I can feel sympathy for him if he is, and particularly for any emotional trauma he might have undergone before he became than man we heard in that audio. I do hope that if he needs help, he gets it. Even more importantly, I very much hope he doesn't ever treat another human being that way again, and if external intervention can help that process, I hope that materialises.
But you seem singularly focused on Greenwood as a stakeholder in this story. Do you have nothing at all to say about the way a reinstatement would reverberate out in the rest of the world? Do you not think women trapped in dangerous relationships and self-pitying men who are inclined to hurt and bully the women they live with won't notice what the club decides? Don't you think the abused might feel a little bit less hopeful that the world will stand up for them, and abusers might feel a little bit more justification and impunity? Does it not trouble you that the club recognises domestic abuse charities will be 'hostile'?
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RR I wish the wife went through with the case and he was found guilty. It would make this much easier. They are the most balanced and a lot of what we dont know would be public. Its something Mason, wife and witnesses seem to not want made public. Neither should any decision made by the only ones who have heard it be adjudged on our clearly limited perspective
But it wasn't. This was left to Man utd. I know many (and very focal) section of its supporters expect them to morally compliant. Sadly they have many other priorities, mostly financial, mostly they think they can get away with it.
To me, his age, his now new wife and kids makes the intent of the actions different from what a court or public opinion has for him (the vocal one at least). It cannot rest solely or mostly to the stakeholders. In a Twitter age of things, many cry more than the bereaved...
Rape is real, assault is real should be addressed. But the ups and downs of a relationship like this is also real. They are never balanced or perfect. If he wasn't a man utd player, you would let him try to deal with everything and get himself back to work and the rounds heal. I would like for the club to adjudicate this way. It is not here to stop all the rapes in the world. In fact that is the slipperiest slope the club will take. We are not the only club with assault cases at the moment. Many still played their players till a case has been started. We didn't. I remembered the dog issue with west ham. That felt a lot like this, and how they handled it was good for the player and club in the long run. Punished him and got him back playing. I really think we should do the same.
Btw, if any of you thinks he has somehow gone unscathed, or it's not enough, that's ok. Acknowledge he has gone through something though. I get a sneaky feeling, many would feel like this after a court case actually done. I'm saying we can move on and watch football. It sounds glib but it's better to do that than talk about this all the time.
posted on 18/8/23
I remembered the dog issue with west ham.
__________
Not very well, since it was a cat.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 hours, 6 minutes ago
By the way, the club has emphasised the importance of pastoral care for years, and as far as I can see most of the academy products we've turned out have been pretty well rounded individuals. Developing into a professional footballer necessitates going through a hugely competitive, pressurised environment from an early age. That's a lot of strain on any human being. The fact that most of them turn out emotionally balanced is pretty much proof that our club, and others, put a lot of effort into their psychological welfare.
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I'll suggest you read up on the chaos involved in managing a young superstar talent at a young age. Every other one you are referring to had a normal youth, their speed of development were average. Many did not get a multimillion contract at 18 and constantly analysed, criticised, dismissed even. And trust me every one of them sees it on social media. Let's talk less to their involvement with women at that age with that popularity. Take a look at child stars for example. We cannot call them the same with a normal player. I support loans for young player one reason; the difference in atmosphere. We can't teach that as trainers.
posted on 18/8/23
comment by Clockwork Red: With or Wout You (U4892)
posted 14 minutes ago
I remembered the dog issue with west ham.
__________
Not very well, since it was a cat.
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Lmao it was a cat? I reserve my comments
posted on 19/8/23
Rumours mounting of club U-turn
posted on 19/8/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 30 minutes ago
Rumours mounting of club U-turn
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Where you hearing that?
posted on 19/8/23
Twitter: some United journalists
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