Always thought there was a conversation between the on-pitch and VAR anyway. Surely there should be a conversation along the lines of why the on-field ref has made his decision and why the VAR sees it another way.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
Always thought there was a conversation between the on-pitch and VAR anyway. Surely there should be a conversation along the lines of why the on-field ref has made his decision and why the VAR sees it another way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That has too much common sense involved for PGMOL to consider it
English refs not being able to communicate in English in order to make the correct decision.
The state of it.
As for VAR. It needs to stay and be fixed ASAP. And it is a quick fix.
Without VAR there is no accountability. Imagine the lino flagged Diaz's goal offside and it would be swept under the carpet.
Romero's handball last week. The ref had a clear view and did not give it. He waived play on. VAR was correct 100%.
yeah thats been raised a few times, there was a guy speaking on sky from the independent i think it was, spoke well about entire situation. He too raised the question why check completes used. Itll suffice most of the time but clearly not all.
Just have to see voice comms on it really. Theres 3 or more of them and they had between 30 and 36 seconds between the decision and restart even though the check was done quickly. Between them they decided to stay quiet and go with the mistake, despite signs pointing to them knowing they'd made a huge error.
Hard to call it a human error at that point it was more of a choice.
I don't think I could have less sympathy
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
Or unless its utd and the full time whistles gone and theres a chance to give them a pen, thats also acceptable.
Agree with this. There's a strange obsession with the man in the middle maintaining control. We can cut out a lot of the delays by just trusting the VAR ref. If he says "you got that wrong, it's a penalty" then the penalty should just be awarded rather than this pointless going over to the monitor thing.
Where there is definitely an issue is when you have experienced refs on the pitch and a rookie at Stockley Park. When you were younger, how many times did you wilfully contradict the opinion of your manager? That's kind of what this is. They're hesitant to say when a well known ref has got something wrong. I think we need to keep on field refs on the field and train dedicated VAR refs as part of an independent group that belong to a different body completely. That way there isn't this strange "I'm backing my mate" mentality. The VAR ref should be a stranger to the on field ref to ensure all decisions are made to focus on the right call rather than protecting a friend.
Btw the refs in the country are a mafia. They are like an old boys club. There is a deep rooted problem within their group.
They toyed with having ethnic refs for abit then sacked it off. You've heard Mike Dean giving an explanation about trying to protect his mate.
The referees in this country should only be allowed to serve for 5 years at the top level and there needs to be new faces in there repeatedly.
Refs in the country are allowed to ref in other countries but we do not allow foreign refs into this country.
They are all too pally and it ends up leading to mistakes. Huge mistakes.
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely disagree. You need finality on decisions. If you open up the possibility of undoing mistakes after the game has restarted, where does it end? When can fans actually celebrate a goal? I don't mind it for mistaken identity and possibly offside goals but never, ever the subjective decisions. We'll constantly be worrying whether a goal will stand. There's an over-obsession with making the correct call rather than the flow and enjoyment of the game. Many years on, are we any better for VAR. I don't think so. It's more controversial with it.
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely disagree. You need finality on decisions. If you open up the possibility of undoing mistakes after the game has restarted, where does it end? When can fans actually celebrate a goal? I don't mind it for mistaken identity and possibly offside goals but never, ever the subjective decisions. We'll constantly be worrying whether a goal will stand. There's an over-obsession with making the correct call rather than the flow and enjoyment of the game. Many years on, are we any better for VAR. I don't think so. It's more controversial with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well if they were allowed to on saturday evening this mess would have been averted.
yes we are better overall, even with the poor use of it etc its still helping them get more decisions correct overall in the game.
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely disagree. You need finality on decisions. If you open up the possibility of undoing mistakes after the game has restarted, where does it end? When can fans actually celebrate a goal? I don't mind it for mistaken identity and possibly offside goals but never, ever the subjective decisions. We'll constantly be worrying whether a goal will stand. There's an over-obsession with making the correct call rather than the flow and enjoyment of the game. Many years on, are we any better for VAR. I don't think so. It's more controversial with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well if they were allowed to on saturday evening this mess would have been averted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For offside calls, maybe, yes, but we can't do that for every single decision. We're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. This was an isolated lapse in concentration that I don't think has happened anywhere else in world football before. Do we really need a rule change based on one very poor incident?
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely disagree. You need finality on decisions. If you open up the possibility of undoing mistakes after the game has restarted, where does it end? When can fans actually celebrate a goal? I don't mind it for mistaken identity and possibly offside goals but never, ever the subjective decisions. We'll constantly be worrying whether a goal will stand. There's an over-obsession with making the correct call rather than the flow and enjoyment of the game. Many years on, are we any better for VAR. I don't think so. It's more controversial with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well if they were allowed to on saturday evening this mess would have been averted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For offside calls, maybe, yes, but we can't do that for every single decision. We're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. This was an isolated lapse in concentration that I don't think has happened anywhere else in world football before. Do we really need a rule change based on one very poor incident?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
my point
all this clamour got a change is only from Liverpool fans and those in the media
Just leave things as they are but change the dialogue between ref and var to clarifications and not directions
Im not sure why they bother sending the ref to the screen when all he is going to do is go along with whatever they trying to tell him only ever saw one ref stick to his decision think it was Oliver.
Not sure you can say how to fix something that I'm not sure I've heard the reason it happened in the first instance other than 'human error'?
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
Not sure you can say how to fix something that I'm not sure I've heard the reason it happened in the first instance other than 'human error'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The people involved made a mistake.
As a miserable old f*cker born in the 60's, all the 'jargon' around VAR reminds me of other bull$hit 'language' that's crept into our day to day lives at work over the past 30 odd years.
Just say what you mean FFS.
Personnel - Human resources
Made redundant - Let go
Transport - Logistics
You've f*cked-up - Check complete
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
Not sure you can say how to fix something that I'm not sure I've heard the reason it happened in the first instance other than 'human error'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The people involved made a mistake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way?
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 seconds ago
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody complained about the body profiling auto-offside calls at the WC - you got to think the richest league in the world would be looking to implement it?
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 seconds ago
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody complained about the body profiling auto-offside calls at the WC - you got to think the richest league in the world would be looking to implement it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The clubs voted against it.
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 seconds ago
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody complained about the body profiling auto-offside calls at the WC - you got to think the richest league in the world would be looking to implement it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Said that on another forum earlier this morning.
FIFA actually get something more or less right for a change, so the FA/Clubs decide 'nah'. You couldn't make this 5hit up.
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 34 minutes ago
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Blimey. We finally agree Sandy.
I believe the on pitch ref has to be the one making all the decisions, even offside/onside reviews.
Everyone else should be assistants including VAR.
So on Saturday the ref would have been going over to the screen expecting to see the lines and what happened would not have happened.
Sign in if you want to comment
Such an Obvious Fix?
Page 1 of 2
posted on 2/10/23
Always thought there was a conversation between the on-pitch and VAR anyway. Surely there should be a conversation along the lines of why the on-field ref has made his decision and why the VAR sees it another way.
posted on 2/10/23
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
Always thought there was a conversation between the on-pitch and VAR anyway. Surely there should be a conversation along the lines of why the on-field ref has made his decision and why the VAR sees it another way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That has too much common sense involved for PGMOL to consider it
posted on 2/10/23
English refs not being able to communicate in English in order to make the correct decision.
The state of it.
As for VAR. It needs to stay and be fixed ASAP. And it is a quick fix.
Without VAR there is no accountability. Imagine the lino flagged Diaz's goal offside and it would be swept under the carpet.
Romero's handball last week. The ref had a clear view and did not give it. He waived play on. VAR was correct 100%.
posted on 2/10/23
yeah thats been raised a few times, there was a guy speaking on sky from the independent i think it was, spoke well about entire situation. He too raised the question why check completes used. Itll suffice most of the time but clearly not all.
Just have to see voice comms on it really. Theres 3 or more of them and they had between 30 and 36 seconds between the decision and restart even though the check was done quickly. Between them they decided to stay quiet and go with the mistake, despite signs pointing to them knowing they'd made a huge error.
Hard to call it a human error at that point it was more of a choice.
posted on 2/10/23
I don't think I could have less sympathy
posted on 2/10/23
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
posted on 2/10/23
Or unless its utd and the full time whistles gone and theres a chance to give them a pen, thats also acceptable.
posted on 2/10/23
Agree with this. There's a strange obsession with the man in the middle maintaining control. We can cut out a lot of the delays by just trusting the VAR ref. If he says "you got that wrong, it's a penalty" then the penalty should just be awarded rather than this pointless going over to the monitor thing.
Where there is definitely an issue is when you have experienced refs on the pitch and a rookie at Stockley Park. When you were younger, how many times did you wilfully contradict the opinion of your manager? That's kind of what this is. They're hesitant to say when a well known ref has got something wrong. I think we need to keep on field refs on the field and train dedicated VAR refs as part of an independent group that belong to a different body completely. That way there isn't this strange "I'm backing my mate" mentality. The VAR ref should be a stranger to the on field ref to ensure all decisions are made to focus on the right call rather than protecting a friend.
posted on 2/10/23
Btw the refs in the country are a mafia. They are like an old boys club. There is a deep rooted problem within their group.
They toyed with having ethnic refs for abit then sacked it off. You've heard Mike Dean giving an explanation about trying to protect his mate.
The referees in this country should only be allowed to serve for 5 years at the top level and there needs to be new faces in there repeatedly.
Refs in the country are allowed to ref in other countries but we do not allow foreign refs into this country.
They are all too pally and it ends up leading to mistakes. Huge mistakes.
posted on 2/10/23
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely disagree. You need finality on decisions. If you open up the possibility of undoing mistakes after the game has restarted, where does it end? When can fans actually celebrate a goal? I don't mind it for mistaken identity and possibly offside goals but never, ever the subjective decisions. We'll constantly be worrying whether a goal will stand. There's an over-obsession with making the correct call rather than the flow and enjoyment of the game. Many years on, are we any better for VAR. I don't think so. It's more controversial with it.
posted on 2/10/23
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely disagree. You need finality on decisions. If you open up the possibility of undoing mistakes after the game has restarted, where does it end? When can fans actually celebrate a goal? I don't mind it for mistaken identity and possibly offside goals but never, ever the subjective decisions. We'll constantly be worrying whether a goal will stand. There's an over-obsession with making the correct call rather than the flow and enjoyment of the game. Many years on, are we any better for VAR. I don't think so. It's more controversial with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well if they were allowed to on saturday evening this mess would have been averted.
posted on 2/10/23
yes we are better overall, even with the poor use of it etc its still helping them get more decisions correct overall in the game.
posted on 2/10/23
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely disagree. You need finality on decisions. If you open up the possibility of undoing mistakes after the game has restarted, where does it end? When can fans actually celebrate a goal? I don't mind it for mistaken identity and possibly offside goals but never, ever the subjective decisions. We'll constantly be worrying whether a goal will stand. There's an over-obsession with making the correct call rather than the flow and enjoyment of the game. Many years on, are we any better for VAR. I don't think so. It's more controversial with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well if they were allowed to on saturday evening this mess would have been averted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For offside calls, maybe, yes, but we can't do that for every single decision. We're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. This was an isolated lapse in concentration that I don't think has happened anywhere else in world football before. Do we really need a rule change based on one very poor incident?
posted on 2/10/23
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
the rule also has to change that they cant go back and reverse decisions unless its a case of mistaken identity. That needs updating to be more in line with VAR and potential technology issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely disagree. You need finality on decisions. If you open up the possibility of undoing mistakes after the game has restarted, where does it end? When can fans actually celebrate a goal? I don't mind it for mistaken identity and possibly offside goals but never, ever the subjective decisions. We'll constantly be worrying whether a goal will stand. There's an over-obsession with making the correct call rather than the flow and enjoyment of the game. Many years on, are we any better for VAR. I don't think so. It's more controversial with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
well if they were allowed to on saturday evening this mess would have been averted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For offside calls, maybe, yes, but we can't do that for every single decision. We're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. This was an isolated lapse in concentration that I don't think has happened anywhere else in world football before. Do we really need a rule change based on one very poor incident?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
my point
all this clamour got a change is only from Liverpool fans and those in the media
Just leave things as they are but change the dialogue between ref and var to clarifications and not directions
posted on 2/10/23
Im not sure why they bother sending the ref to the screen when all he is going to do is go along with whatever they trying to tell him only ever saw one ref stick to his decision think it was Oliver.
posted on 2/10/23
Not sure you can say how to fix something that I'm not sure I've heard the reason it happened in the first instance other than 'human error'?
posted on 2/10/23
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
Not sure you can say how to fix something that I'm not sure I've heard the reason it happened in the first instance other than 'human error'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The people involved made a mistake.
posted on 2/10/23
As a miserable old f*cker born in the 60's, all the 'jargon' around VAR reminds me of other bull$hit 'language' that's crept into our day to day lives at work over the past 30 odd years.
Just say what you mean FFS.
Personnel - Human resources
Made redundant - Let go
Transport - Logistics
You've f*cked-up - Check complete
posted on 2/10/23
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
posted on 2/10/23
comment by Pedro Poridge at the love Parade (U6468)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 1 minute ago
Not sure you can say how to fix something that I'm not sure I've heard the reason it happened in the first instance other than 'human error'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The people involved made a mistake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In what way?
posted on 2/10/23
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 seconds ago
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody complained about the body profiling auto-offside calls at the WC - you got to think the richest league in the world would be looking to implement it?
posted on 2/10/23
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 seconds ago
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody complained about the body profiling auto-offside calls at the WC - you got to think the richest league in the world would be looking to implement it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The clubs voted against it.
posted on 2/10/23
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 3 seconds ago
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody complained about the body profiling auto-offside calls at the WC - you got to think the richest league in the world would be looking to implement it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Said that on another forum earlier this morning.
FIFA actually get something more or less right for a change, so the FA/Clubs decide 'nah'. You couldn't make this 5hit up.
posted on 2/10/23
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 34 minutes ago
Personally I would just scrap VAR, and just go with the onfield decision. You know, the one that was not perfect, but worked pretty well for about 140 years. The Ref makes the decision. Right or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Blimey. We finally agree Sandy.
posted on 2/10/23
I believe the on pitch ref has to be the one making all the decisions, even offside/onside reviews.
Everyone else should be assistants including VAR.
So on Saturday the ref would have been going over to the screen expecting to see the lines and what happened would not have happened.
Page 1 of 2