comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 minutes ago
"The problem with LVG’s style is that it was dreadful and we were relying on a declining Rooney to play CF."
I think we were a quality creative player and Striker away from being successful under LVG. Won a cup, only missed out on the CL to City on GD and he had to rebuild fergies squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but he sort of neglected those areas and kept faith with his captain.
The FA cup win was a little like all of our trophies post SAF, we got the rub of the green in the draws.
Yes we only missed on a CL on GD but it was with 66 points.
He failed after a promising 1st season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair, but we were pretty solid as a unit and lacked players with that cutting edge his style needs to succeed.
I thought he was doing a good job with the young players too.
In hindsight, I think we'd be in a better place now had we kept him on for a couple of years.
For me the lesson from Carrick's and McKenna's very impressive work since moving on from United isn't (yet) that we should bring them back. It's that failure of the organisation doesn't mean you don't have talented people working in it. More often, when an organisation underperforms, it's a symptom of the structure failing to harness the talents and assets that it has, and perhaps certain people being under-promoted.
I remember certain posters back in the dying days of the Solskjaer era saying we needed to clear out every single one of the back room staff because obviously they were all useless.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
For me the lesson from Carrick's and McKenna's very impressive work since moving on from United isn't (yet) that we should bring them back. It's that failure of the organisation doesn't mean you don't have talented people working in it. More often, when an organisation underperforms, it's a symptom of the structure failing to harness the talents and assets that it has, and perhaps certain people being under-promoted.
I remember certain posters back in the dying days of the Solskjaer era saying we needed to clear out every single one of the back room staff because obviously they were all useless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hindsight has shown us the coaching wasn't the issue....
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
For me the lesson from Carrick's and McKenna's very impressive work since moving on from United isn't (yet) that we should bring them back. It's that failure of the organisation doesn't mean you don't have talented people working in it. More often, when an organisation underperforms, it's a symptom of the structure failing to harness the talents and assets that it has, and perhaps certain people being under-promoted.
I remember certain posters back in the dying days of the Solskjaer era saying we needed to clear out every single one of the back room staff because obviously they were all useless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hindsight has shown us the coaching wasn't the issue....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Errr, shown some people. A lot of us at the time said this wasnt the problem. But the narrative on here anyway was that Ole was a PE teacher. And that was That.
Coaching was definitely an issue, but assistant coaches working under a structure someone else designed probably aren't in a position to elevate the quality of the output beyond the ceiling of the person in charge.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 35 seconds ago
Coaching was definitely an issue, but assistant coaches working under a structure someone else designed probably aren't in a position to elevate the quality of the output beyond the ceiling of the person in charge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. It stems from a wider issue at this club that involves the fundanental structure provided for its football operations. And nothing has changed much to this day. As we see every game we play.
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
For me the lesson from Carrick's and McKenna's very impressive work since moving on from United isn't (yet) that we should bring them back. It's that failure of the organisation doesn't mean you don't have talented people working in it. More often, when an organisation underperforms, it's a symptom of the structure failing to harness the talents and assets that it has, and perhaps certain people being under-promoted.
I remember certain posters back in the dying days of the Solskjaer era saying we needed to clear out every single one of the back room staff because obviously they were all useless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hindsight has shown us the coaching wasn't the issue....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because they’re managing well in League One and the Championship?
Dazza, I took Currently's comment to be tongue in cheek, in which case your question is challenging what I said more than what he did. Of course we don't really know what their ceiling is. Their success as managers does, however, refute the view, popular in autumn 2021, that Carrick and McKenna were tactical illiterates on a par with Phillip 'fиck off' Neville.
Weve had Ole, McKenna, Carrick, Phelan, Fletcher, Murtough, Rangnick, Ten Hag, McClaren, and the other bald guy, plus other coaches all trying to get a tune and a consistent and recognisable style of play out of basically the same group of players with a few comings and goings all under the same infratructure and culture at the club and nothing has changed or got better. In fact you could argue we are worse today than were under Ole when we finished runners up before the club signed Ronaldo.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 20 minutes ago
Dazza, I took Currently's comment to be tongue in cheek, in which case your question is challenging what I said more than what he did. Of course we don't really know what their ceiling is. Their success as managers does, however, refute the view, popular in autumn 2021, that Carrick and McKenna were tactical illiterates on a par with Phillip 'fиck off' Neville.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I see. I don’t think we really needed their management careers to being going well to tell us that was nonsense, to be fair. Especially when football has been littered with top coaches who have struggled translating things to management.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 minutes ago
"The problem with LVG’s style is that it was dreadful and we were relying on a declining Rooney to play CF."
I think we were a quality creative player and Striker away from being successful under LVG. Won a cup, only missed out on the CL to City on GD and he had to rebuild fergies squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but he sort of neglected those areas and kept faith with his captain.
The FA cup win was a little like all of our trophies post SAF, we got the rub of the green in the draws.
Yes we only missed on a CL on GD but it was with 66 points.
He failed after a promising 1st season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair, but we were pretty solid as a unit and lacked players with that cutting edge his style needs to succeed.
I thought he was doing a good job with the young players too.
In hindsight, I think we'd be in a better place now had we kept him on for a couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You may be right. Very few of us were sad to see him go at the time though.
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 minutes ago
"The problem with LVG’s style is that it was dreadful and we were relying on a declining Rooney to play CF."
I think we were a quality creative player and Striker away from being successful under LVG. Won a cup, only missed out on the CL to City on GD and he had to rebuild fergies squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but he sort of neglected those areas and kept faith with his captain.
The FA cup win was a little like all of our trophies post SAF, we got the rub of the green in the draws.
Yes we only missed on a CL on GD but it was with 66 points.
He failed after a promising 1st season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair, but we were pretty solid as a unit and lacked players with that cutting edge his style needs to succeed.
I thought he was doing a good job with the young players too.
In hindsight, I think we'd be in a better place now had we kept him on for a couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You may be right. Very few of us were sad to see him go at the time though.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure we all weren't please the way he was let go.
Jose would not have been my choice to replace him as they have different styles. It would have been bette RTO get a coach who would have build on what LVG did. The short sightedness has been an issue. It's humstrung each manager that has come in.
Managing Utd is a different kettle of fish; Utd being a bigger club and run worse.
Sign in if you want to comment
Michael Carrick
Page 2 of 2
posted on 26/10/23
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 minutes ago
"The problem with LVG’s style is that it was dreadful and we were relying on a declining Rooney to play CF."
I think we were a quality creative player and Striker away from being successful under LVG. Won a cup, only missed out on the CL to City on GD and he had to rebuild fergies squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but he sort of neglected those areas and kept faith with his captain.
The FA cup win was a little like all of our trophies post SAF, we got the rub of the green in the draws.
Yes we only missed on a CL on GD but it was with 66 points.
He failed after a promising 1st season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair, but we were pretty solid as a unit and lacked players with that cutting edge his style needs to succeed.
I thought he was doing a good job with the young players too.
In hindsight, I think we'd be in a better place now had we kept him on for a couple of years.
posted on 26/10/23
For me the lesson from Carrick's and McKenna's very impressive work since moving on from United isn't (yet) that we should bring them back. It's that failure of the organisation doesn't mean you don't have talented people working in it. More often, when an organisation underperforms, it's a symptom of the structure failing to harness the talents and assets that it has, and perhaps certain people being under-promoted.
I remember certain posters back in the dying days of the Solskjaer era saying we needed to clear out every single one of the back room staff because obviously they were all useless.
posted on 26/10/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
For me the lesson from Carrick's and McKenna's very impressive work since moving on from United isn't (yet) that we should bring them back. It's that failure of the organisation doesn't mean you don't have talented people working in it. More often, when an organisation underperforms, it's a symptom of the structure failing to harness the talents and assets that it has, and perhaps certain people being under-promoted.
I remember certain posters back in the dying days of the Solskjaer era saying we needed to clear out every single one of the back room staff because obviously they were all useless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hindsight has shown us the coaching wasn't the issue....
posted on 26/10/23
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
For me the lesson from Carrick's and McKenna's very impressive work since moving on from United isn't (yet) that we should bring them back. It's that failure of the organisation doesn't mean you don't have talented people working in it. More often, when an organisation underperforms, it's a symptom of the structure failing to harness the talents and assets that it has, and perhaps certain people being under-promoted.
I remember certain posters back in the dying days of the Solskjaer era saying we needed to clear out every single one of the back room staff because obviously they were all useless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hindsight has shown us the coaching wasn't the issue....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Errr, shown some people. A lot of us at the time said this wasnt the problem. But the narrative on here anyway was that Ole was a PE teacher. And that was That.
posted on 26/10/23
Coaching was definitely an issue, but assistant coaches working under a structure someone else designed probably aren't in a position to elevate the quality of the output beyond the ceiling of the person in charge.
posted on 26/10/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 35 seconds ago
Coaching was definitely an issue, but assistant coaches working under a structure someone else designed probably aren't in a position to elevate the quality of the output beyond the ceiling of the person in charge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. It stems from a wider issue at this club that involves the fundanental structure provided for its football operations. And nothing has changed much to this day. As we see every game we play.
posted on 26/10/23
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 7 minutes ago
For me the lesson from Carrick's and McKenna's very impressive work since moving on from United isn't (yet) that we should bring them back. It's that failure of the organisation doesn't mean you don't have talented people working in it. More often, when an organisation underperforms, it's a symptom of the structure failing to harness the talents and assets that it has, and perhaps certain people being under-promoted.
I remember certain posters back in the dying days of the Solskjaer era saying we needed to clear out every single one of the back room staff because obviously they were all useless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hindsight has shown us the coaching wasn't the issue....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because they’re managing well in League One and the Championship?
posted on 26/10/23
Dazza, I took Currently's comment to be tongue in cheek, in which case your question is challenging what I said more than what he did. Of course we don't really know what their ceiling is. Their success as managers does, however, refute the view, popular in autumn 2021, that Carrick and McKenna were tactical illiterates on a par with Phillip 'fиck off' Neville.
posted on 26/10/23
Weve had Ole, McKenna, Carrick, Phelan, Fletcher, Murtough, Rangnick, Ten Hag, McClaren, and the other bald guy, plus other coaches all trying to get a tune and a consistent and recognisable style of play out of basically the same group of players with a few comings and goings all under the same infratructure and culture at the club and nothing has changed or got better. In fact you could argue we are worse today than were under Ole when we finished runners up before the club signed Ronaldo.
posted on 26/10/23
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 20 minutes ago
Dazza, I took Currently's comment to be tongue in cheek, in which case your question is challenging what I said more than what he did. Of course we don't really know what their ceiling is. Their success as managers does, however, refute the view, popular in autumn 2021, that Carrick and McKenna were tactical illiterates on a par with Phillip 'fиck off' Neville.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I see. I don’t think we really needed their management careers to being going well to tell us that was nonsense, to be fair. Especially when football has been littered with top coaches who have struggled translating things to management.
posted on 26/10/23
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 minutes ago
"The problem with LVG’s style is that it was dreadful and we were relying on a declining Rooney to play CF."
I think we were a quality creative player and Striker away from being successful under LVG. Won a cup, only missed out on the CL to City on GD and he had to rebuild fergies squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but he sort of neglected those areas and kept faith with his captain.
The FA cup win was a little like all of our trophies post SAF, we got the rub of the green in the draws.
Yes we only missed on a CL on GD but it was with 66 points.
He failed after a promising 1st season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair, but we were pretty solid as a unit and lacked players with that cutting edge his style needs to succeed.
I thought he was doing a good job with the young players too.
In hindsight, I think we'd be in a better place now had we kept him on for a couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You may be right. Very few of us were sad to see him go at the time though.
posted on 26/10/23
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 2 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 minutes ago
"The problem with LVG’s style is that it was dreadful and we were relying on a declining Rooney to play CF."
I think we were a quality creative player and Striker away from being successful under LVG. Won a cup, only missed out on the CL to City on GD and he had to rebuild fergies squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes but he sort of neglected those areas and kept faith with his captain.
The FA cup win was a little like all of our trophies post SAF, we got the rub of the green in the draws.
Yes we only missed on a CL on GD but it was with 66 points.
He failed after a promising 1st season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair, but we were pretty solid as a unit and lacked players with that cutting edge his style needs to succeed.
I thought he was doing a good job with the young players too.
In hindsight, I think we'd be in a better place now had we kept him on for a couple of years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You may be right. Very few of us were sad to see him go at the time though.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure we all weren't please the way he was let go.
Jose would not have been my choice to replace him as they have different styles. It would have been bette RTO get a coach who would have build on what LVG did. The short sightedness has been an issue. It's humstrung each manager that has come in.
posted on 26/10/23
Managing Utd is a different kettle of fish; Utd being a bigger club and run worse.
Page 2 of 2