Said it plenty of times before VAR was brought in..... the game has evolved. Its much faster, now much more complex rules, players are far more savvy and every single angle of every game is scrutinised.
Refs are not poorer than they used to be were just expecting the same people to do more difficult jobs. So obv its gonna look they have regressed or are poor.
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
Every single country in the world thinks their refs are poor, not one league that I know of praises the ability of their refs. Everyone thinks their league has the worst refs, til they play in europe and they often tend to be worse
Where was the opening good hi?
Also graphs would be of benefit
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
Good article Barry.
I would say that I don't believe refs are bent in the end they would be found out. Incompetent yes.
I can't see what the solution is, training, fitness yes, more money yes. But would it make them better? Not really.
Fans have to accept mistakes will be made, just as players make mistakes. But managers and players moaning always annoy me after spending 90 minutes trying to con him.
The effort should go into promoting fair play, with penalties for those who don't.
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 10 seconds ago
Good article Barry.
I would say that I don't believe refs are bent in the end they would be found out. Incompetent yes.
I can't see what the solution is, training, fitness yes, more money yes. But would it make them better? Not really.
Fans have to accept mistakes will be made, just as players make mistakes. But managers and players moaning always annoy me after spending 90 minutes trying to con him.
The effort should go into promoting fair play, with penalties for those who don't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have to agree with this.
comment by Soft to milk (U23092)
posted 2 minutes ago
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI can’t control players on the pitch when it gets heated
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they are fitter, far better trained, have better resources, have better data research, are full time.
IMO they are far better than they ever where, before it was just mates who are in "professional" jobs.
comment by The Hybrid Postecogdoos (U10416)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Soft to milk (U23092)
posted 2 minutes ago
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI can’t control players on the pitch when it gets heated
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbf they can't try and bully the AI into changing its mind.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they are fitter, far better trained, have better resources, have better data research, are full time.
IMO they are far better than they ever where, before it was just mates who are in "professional" jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
also its still refs making the decisions for VAR
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they are fitter, far better trained, have better resources, have better data research, are full time.
IMO they are far better than they ever where, before it was just mates who are in "professional" jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes they maybe fitter as they have cut down on pies at HT
But being fitter does not make them "better". Better means their decisions are more accurate but I have yet to see a ref make any kind of "hard" decisions on the field. They ref these to 3 other people sat in a tiny room with ChatGPT on!
No, I think they are not as refs "better". None of them is any better than Pier Luigi Collina as an example.
Stadium: Tynecastle Stadium
When: on 11/6/14
------------------
Hold up, wtf is this?
Why do people say investment in referees will not work?
There are so many important aspects of being a referee that can be improved upon with proper training and seeking the traits in potential referees.
We need to be finding the right people to be referees in the first place. Not just because they were bullied at school and now have a complex.
Communication, composure, resilience, confidence. Plenty of key qualities/traits that should be looked for and worked on through training by top psychologists etc.
Do some proper studies into what makes a good ref. That would be a good starting point. This is all part of investing in referees and yes it could take decades. But just saying refs have always been bad isn't a solution. They may be marginally better now but it is evidently still not good enough and saying investment won't work is ridiculous.
comment by Zein Mayassi (U21076)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Hybrid Postecogdoos (U10416)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Soft to milk (U23092)
posted 2 minutes ago
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI can’t control players on the pitch when it gets heated
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbf they can't try and bully the AI into changing its mind.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI will just refer it to VAR
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they are fitter, far better trained, have better resources, have better data research, are full time.
IMO they are far better than they ever where, before it was just mates who are in "professional" jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes they maybe fitter as they have cut down on pies at HT
But being fitter does not make them "better". Better means their decisions are more accurate but I have yet to see a ref make any kind of "hard" decisions on the field. They ref these to 3 other people sat in a tiny room with ChatGPT on!
No, I think they are not as refs "better". None of them is any better than Pier Luigi Collina as an example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
being fitter means their decision making and concentration dont drop as much as the game progresses.
Collina got plenty wrong, PLENTY. he wasnt scrutinised anywhere near as much as current refs get scrutinised, I also dont think you can use one example of a ref and apply that to the rest as a whole.
If you think refs that are fitter, better trained, have better resources to prepare are not better than the refs that didnt have these then fair enough.
comment by The Hybrid Postecogdoos (U10416)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Soft to milk (U23092)
posted 2 minutes ago
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI can’t control players on the pitch when it gets heated
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tazers 👍
Bigger picture and longer term solutions please. You are an intelligent bunch when you want to be. Your contributions are key.
people just need to accept that any activity that involves human judgement and interpretation will through up things you dont agree with.
its impossible to get right all we can do is try and restrict the mistakes or have the people in charge the help they need.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 53 seconds ago
people just need to accept that any activity that involves human judgement and interpretation will through up things you dont agree with.
its impossible to get right all we can do is try and restrict the mistakes or have the people in charge the help they need.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. The same applies for defenders. Mistakes will always happen. But there is a lot of investment in players and development to ensure that these mistakes are minimised both in the short term and longer term. We have evolved from big brutes of centre backs to quick ball playing ones. This has come through longer term investment in players, tactics etc. Or you could have just said that mistakes always happen with defenders and did nothing to try and improve it.
comment by Frank van Eijs (U1734)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 53 seconds ago
people just need to accept that any activity that involves human judgement and interpretation will through up things you dont agree with.
its impossible to get right all we can do is try and restrict the mistakes or have the people in charge the help they need.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. The same applies for defenders. Mistakes will always happen. But there is a lot of investment in players and development to ensure that these mistakes are minimised both in the short term and longer term. We have evolved from big brutes of centre backs to quick ball playing ones. This has come through longer term investment in players, tactics etc. Or you could have just said that mistakes always happen with defenders and did nothing to try and improve it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree we should always be looking for ways to improve and support them which is what the game seems to have started (just took them a while).
I dont think refs are anywhere near as bad as people make it, they are just scapegoats. IMO they are certainly better than they used to be, and British refs are actually pretty good in comparison it seems after witnessing some of the ref performances in europe.
Refs are held to a higher standard than anyone else on the pitch. Every single player on a field of play makes multiple mistakes in every game but unless it’s a complete disaster that leads to a goal it’s rarely highlighted. Referees are castigated for every poor decision they make, even tho in most games they make a hell of a lot fewer mistakes than the players.
comment by DoireDevilBhoy (U10745)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are held to a higher standard than anyone else on the pitch. Every single player on a field of play makes multiple mistakes in every game but unless it’s a complete disaster that leads to a goal it’s rarely highlighted. Referees are castigated for every poor decision they make, even tho in most games they make a hell of a lot fewer mistakes than the players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this
just out of curiosity......
Are English refs anti Celtic also or is that just Scottish refs?
what training do these Scottish refs get to really fulfil their role as anti Celtic?
Nope. Still not good enough. Think about the many BILLIONS of pounds invested into just a few matches. Everyone is thinking too small scale. There should be NASA levels of investment into refereeing with so much money at stake. Give them the time and money and they will solve the issue through innovation. Not things like "refs can run faster now, so that's that solved".
comment by Frank van Eijs (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nope. Still not good enough. Think about the many BILLIONS of pounds invested into just a few matches. Everyone is thinking too small scale. There should be NASA levels of investment into refereeing with so much money at stake. Give them the time and money and they will solve the issue through innovation. Not things like "refs can run faster now, so that's that solved".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes
Sign in if you want to comment
Referees: Have they been left behind?
Page 1 of 4
posted on 6/12/23
Said it plenty of times before VAR was brought in..... the game has evolved. Its much faster, now much more complex rules, players are far more savvy and every single angle of every game is scrutinised.
Refs are not poorer than they used to be were just expecting the same people to do more difficult jobs. So obv its gonna look they have regressed or are poor.
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
Every single country in the world thinks their refs are poor, not one league that I know of praises the ability of their refs. Everyone thinks their league has the worst refs, til they play in europe and they often tend to be worse
posted on 6/12/23
Where was the opening good hi?
Also graphs would be of benefit
posted on 6/12/23
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
posted on 6/12/23
Good article Barry.
I would say that I don't believe refs are bent in the end they would be found out. Incompetent yes.
I can't see what the solution is, training, fitness yes, more money yes. But would it make them better? Not really.
Fans have to accept mistakes will be made, just as players make mistakes. But managers and players moaning always annoy me after spending 90 minutes trying to con him.
The effort should go into promoting fair play, with penalties for those who don't.
posted on 6/12/23
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
posted on 6/12/23
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 10 seconds ago
Good article Barry.
I would say that I don't believe refs are bent in the end they would be found out. Incompetent yes.
I can't see what the solution is, training, fitness yes, more money yes. But would it make them better? Not really.
Fans have to accept mistakes will be made, just as players make mistakes. But managers and players moaning always annoy me after spending 90 minutes trying to con him.
The effort should go into promoting fair play, with penalties for those who don't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have to agree with this.
posted on 6/12/23
comment by Soft to milk (U23092)
posted 2 minutes ago
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI can’t control players on the pitch when it gets heated
posted on 6/12/23
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they are fitter, far better trained, have better resources, have better data research, are full time.
IMO they are far better than they ever where, before it was just mates who are in "professional" jobs.
posted on 6/12/23
comment by The Hybrid Postecogdoos (U10416)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Soft to milk (U23092)
posted 2 minutes ago
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI can’t control players on the pitch when it gets heated
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbf they can't try and bully the AI into changing its mind.
posted on 6/12/23
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they are fitter, far better trained, have better resources, have better data research, are full time.
IMO they are far better than they ever where, before it was just mates who are in "professional" jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
also its still refs making the decisions for VAR
posted on 6/12/23
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they are fitter, far better trained, have better resources, have better data research, are full time.
IMO they are far better than they ever where, before it was just mates who are in "professional" jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes they maybe fitter as they have cut down on pies at HT
But being fitter does not make them "better". Better means their decisions are more accurate but I have yet to see a ref make any kind of "hard" decisions on the field. They ref these to 3 other people sat in a tiny room with ChatGPT on!
No, I think they are not as refs "better". None of them is any better than Pier Luigi Collina as an example.
posted on 6/12/23
Stadium: Tynecastle Stadium
When: on 11/6/14
------------------
Hold up, wtf is this?
posted on 6/12/23
Why do people say investment in referees will not work?
There are so many important aspects of being a referee that can be improved upon with proper training and seeking the traits in potential referees.
We need to be finding the right people to be referees in the first place. Not just because they were bullied at school and now have a complex.
Communication, composure, resilience, confidence. Plenty of key qualities/traits that should be looked for and worked on through training by top psychologists etc.
Do some proper studies into what makes a good ref. That would be a good starting point. This is all part of investing in referees and yes it could take decades. But just saying refs have always been bad isn't a solution. They may be marginally better now but it is evidently still not good enough and saying investment won't work is ridiculous.
posted on 6/12/23
comment by Zein Mayassi (U21076)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Hybrid Postecogdoos (U10416)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Soft to milk (U23092)
posted 2 minutes ago
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI can’t control players on the pitch when it gets heated
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbf they can't try and bully the AI into changing its mind.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI will just refer it to VAR
posted on 6/12/23
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are better now than they ever have been , by quite a distance also.
====================
Not really.
Consider all the tough decisions, what does the ref do? he passes these to the VAR thus the ref has not need to be be up with the laws of the game as he is not making these calls, but people sat miles away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
they are fitter, far better trained, have better resources, have better data research, are full time.
IMO they are far better than they ever where, before it was just mates who are in "professional" jobs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes they maybe fitter as they have cut down on pies at HT
But being fitter does not make them "better". Better means their decisions are more accurate but I have yet to see a ref make any kind of "hard" decisions on the field. They ref these to 3 other people sat in a tiny room with ChatGPT on!
No, I think they are not as refs "better". None of them is any better than Pier Luigi Collina as an example.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
being fitter means their decision making and concentration dont drop as much as the game progresses.
Collina got plenty wrong, PLENTY. he wasnt scrutinised anywhere near as much as current refs get scrutinised, I also dont think you can use one example of a ref and apply that to the rest as a whole.
If you think refs that are fitter, better trained, have better resources to prepare are not better than the refs that didnt have these then fair enough.
posted on 6/12/23
comment by The Hybrid Postecogdoos (U10416)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Soft to milk (U23092)
posted 2 minutes ago
Referees should be phased out for AI over the coming few years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AI can’t control players on the pitch when it gets heated
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tazers 👍
posted on 6/12/23
Bigger picture and longer term solutions please. You are an intelligent bunch when you want to be. Your contributions are key.
posted on 6/12/23
people just need to accept that any activity that involves human judgement and interpretation will through up things you dont agree with.
its impossible to get right all we can do is try and restrict the mistakes or have the people in charge the help they need.
posted on 6/12/23
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 53 seconds ago
people just need to accept that any activity that involves human judgement and interpretation will through up things you dont agree with.
its impossible to get right all we can do is try and restrict the mistakes or have the people in charge the help they need.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. The same applies for defenders. Mistakes will always happen. But there is a lot of investment in players and development to ensure that these mistakes are minimised both in the short term and longer term. We have evolved from big brutes of centre backs to quick ball playing ones. This has come through longer term investment in players, tactics etc. Or you could have just said that mistakes always happen with defenders and did nothing to try and improve it.
posted on 6/12/23
comment by Frank van Eijs (U1734)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 53 seconds ago
people just need to accept that any activity that involves human judgement and interpretation will through up things you dont agree with.
its impossible to get right all we can do is try and restrict the mistakes or have the people in charge the help they need.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. The same applies for defenders. Mistakes will always happen. But there is a lot of investment in players and development to ensure that these mistakes are minimised both in the short term and longer term. We have evolved from big brutes of centre backs to quick ball playing ones. This has come through longer term investment in players, tactics etc. Or you could have just said that mistakes always happen with defenders and did nothing to try and improve it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree we should always be looking for ways to improve and support them which is what the game seems to have started (just took them a while).
I dont think refs are anywhere near as bad as people make it, they are just scapegoats. IMO they are certainly better than they used to be, and British refs are actually pretty good in comparison it seems after witnessing some of the ref performances in europe.
posted on 6/12/23
Refs are held to a higher standard than anyone else on the pitch. Every single player on a field of play makes multiple mistakes in every game but unless it’s a complete disaster that leads to a goal it’s rarely highlighted. Referees are castigated for every poor decision they make, even tho in most games they make a hell of a lot fewer mistakes than the players.
posted on 6/12/23
comment by DoireDevilBhoy (U10745)
posted 1 minute ago
Refs are held to a higher standard than anyone else on the pitch. Every single player on a field of play makes multiple mistakes in every game but unless it’s a complete disaster that leads to a goal it’s rarely highlighted. Referees are castigated for every poor decision they make, even tho in most games they make a hell of a lot fewer mistakes than the players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this
posted on 6/12/23
just out of curiosity......
Are English refs anti Celtic also or is that just Scottish refs?
what training do these Scottish refs get to really fulfil their role as anti Celtic?
posted on 6/12/23
Nope. Still not good enough. Think about the many BILLIONS of pounds invested into just a few matches. Everyone is thinking too small scale. There should be NASA levels of investment into refereeing with so much money at stake. Give them the time and money and they will solve the issue through innovation. Not things like "refs can run faster now, so that's that solved".
posted on 6/12/23
comment by Frank van Eijs (U1734)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nope. Still not good enough. Think about the many BILLIONS of pounds invested into just a few matches. Everyone is thinking too small scale. There should be NASA levels of investment into refereeing with so much money at stake. Give them the time and money and they will solve the issue through innovation. Not things like "refs can run faster now, so that's that solved".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes
Page 1 of 4