comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 minutes ago
isnt the FIFA award given to the player who the players and managers think is the best? ie its the players and managers who are voting for their player of the year. Unless your saying the vote was rigged it cant be awarded wrongly surely?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The selection criteria tor The Best FIFA Men's Player and The Best FIFA Men's Goalkeeper 2023 are sporting performance and general conduct on and off the pitch from 19 December 2022 to 20 August 2023 (inclusive).
Those are the criteria, as per the instructions issued by FIFA.
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
I like the bit about "general conduct on and off the pitch", because it endorses Emi using the Golden Gloves trophy as a massive diick in the face of all the authorities. Now we might all know it was one of the grate World Cup moments, but the world of football implicitly acknowledging him for it is just beautiful.
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 2 hours, 20 minutes ago
I didn’t realise he was the sole member of the Argentina team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disingenuous misrepresentation of something I didn't say. Which is very you.
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I fully agree.
Overall, which footballer would you say put in the best performances in 2023?
I'll be honest, I haven't given it much thought myself.
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I fully agree.
Overall, which footballer would you say put in the best performances in 2023?
I'll be honest, I haven't given it much thought myself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably one of Haaland or KDB
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 minutes ago
isnt the FIFA award given to the player who the players and managers think is the best? ie its the players and managers who are voting for their player of the year. Unless your saying the vote was rigged it cant be awarded wrongly surely?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The selection criteria tor The Best FIFA Men's Player and The Best FIFA Men's Goalkeeper 2023 are sporting performance and general conduct on and off the pitch from 19 December 2022 to 20 August 2023 (inclusive).
Those are the criteria, as per the instructions issued by FIFA.
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
I like the bit about "general conduct on and off the pitch", because it endorses Emi using the Golden Gloves trophy as a massive diick in the face of all the authorities. Now we might all know it was one of the grate World Cup moments, but the world of football implicitly acknowledging him for it is just beautiful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok but its voted by his peers, so its who his peers thought performed better. if you want to be pedantic. I just said it was the best player cos most would assume thats the criteria, the person who performs the best was the best.
the only way it can be wrong is if the vote is rigged.
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I fully agree.
Overall, which footballer would you say put in the best performances in 2023?
I'll be honest, I haven't given it much thought myself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s Harry Kane.
comment by Robb - Glenn Maxwell. Legend. Hero. Icon. (U22716)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I fully agree.
Overall, which footballer would you say put in the best performances in 2023?
I'll be honest, I haven't given it much thought myself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably one of Haaland or KDB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mbappe. Domestically dominant and hattricks and heroics at the world cup. Performs across all platforms, not just club football unlike Haaland.
I mean, the only thing Haaland has that's better than Mbappe is goals scored. Mbappe is better at everything else.
Mbappe also performs internationally. Haaland has 3 goals in fack knows how many games. You can't be the best when you don't even exist internationally IMO.
So Haaland scores more goals but Mbappe is better rounded, has tricks and beats players, hardly ever scores tap ins like Haaland and performs across the spectrum.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 minutes ago
isnt the FIFA award given to the player who the players and managers think is the best? ie its the players and managers who are voting for their player of the year. Unless your saying the vote was rigged it cant be awarded wrongly surely?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The selection criteria tor The Best FIFA Men's Player and The Best FIFA Men's Goalkeeper 2023 are sporting performance and general conduct on and off the pitch from 19 December 2022 to 20 August 2023 (inclusive).
Those are the criteria, as per the instructions issued by FIFA.
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
I like the bit about "general conduct on and off the pitch", because it endorses Emi using the Golden Gloves trophy as a massive diick in the face of all the authorities. Now we might all know it was one of the grate World Cup moments, but the world of football implicitly acknowledging him for it is just beautiful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok but its voted by his peers, so its who his peers thought performed better. if you want to be pedantic. I just said it was the best player cos most would assume thats the criteria, the person who performs the best was the best.
the only way it can be wrong is if the vote is rigged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The criteria are established by the organisers of the awards and sent out to every single voting member.
People ignoring those criteria and making their choices on whatever criteria they fancy doesn't make them right at all.
FIFA types the criteria out in black and white for every voter to take into account. In that context "best player" clearly ought to be taken as shorthand for what the award is actually meant to recognise.
The fact that a lot of the voters seem to have difficulty taking that very simple idea on board doesn't make them right.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the essence of your argument seems to be that whoever performed best is a subjective issue, and that therefore voting for someone who did very little of note during the year but who everyone thinks is the most talented footballer is not wrong, because FIFA has awarded them voting rights.
"People ignoring those criteria and making their choices on whatever criteria they fancy doesn't make them right at all."
"The fact that a lot of the voters seem to have difficulty taking that very simple idea on board doesn't make them right."
random statements that have zero authenticity or validity.
the award is for who players and managers think performed the best, there is no actual specific gauge or criteria. its who the pros thought performed the best therfore the only way the vote can be wrong is if its rigged.
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 9 minutes ago
Mbappe also performs internationally. Haaland has 3 goals in fack knows how many games. You can't be the best when you don't even exist internationally IMO.
So Haaland scores more goals but Mbappe is better rounded, has tricks and beats players, hardly ever scores tap ins like Haaland and performs across the spectrum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tend to agree, but the issue is that in 2023 there were no major international tournaments, and in the CL PSG went out with a whimper at the first ko hurdle, all of which greatly reduces the impact of Mbappé's performances, since in term of its level Ligue 1 is only about "the worst of the best" or "the best of the rest".
I'm not sure about KDB - wasn't he injured for a significant stretch?
If I had to think of a player who seems to perform at a very high level whenever I watch him and whose team also had an excellent year, I think I might go for Bernardo Silva - but he go through a bit of a slump for a while when there were mumblings about his contract situation?
Great player nevertheless, probably underrated.
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 4 hours, 41 minutes ago
Haaland probably lost out on reputation and standing in the game, rather than for for voters perceive as actual sporting merit for the year.
Personally, however, there could only be one winner, regardless of whatever else happened, and that's Messi.
Leading your team to a World Cup title is still the absolute pinnacle of what can be achieved in the game. You don't just carry the expectations of the fans, but of an entire nation. It actually took Messi his entire career to reach the point where he could actually withstand the pressure of such an extraordinary level of expectation. It's the crowning moment of an entire career of arguably the best player ever to kick a ball.
I'm aware some nations aren't going to be able to compete, Norway perhaps being one of them - although, if countries like Uruguay or Croatia can, then what's Norway's excuse, with almost double the population and probably 4 or 5 times the financial resources, or more?
Moreover, what about the overall contribution of each
player to their team's performance. City were already at the level required to achieve what they did last season. Close enough to only have been denied by the finest of margins.
Plus, what even was his contribution in the really big games? It's all well and good to muller RB Leipzig in the R16, but what did this record-breaking goalscorer contribute in the real high-stakes games? 0 goals in 3 games for the finals or semis, and virtually no impact whatsoever. Even in the QFs, his goals only served to add comfort to an already very comfortable 2-goal cushion.
Are those really the kind of standout performances that distinguish the world's best player?
Compare to Messi. Six direct goal contributions in the final three games of the World Cup. A brace in the final. 7 goals and 3 assists over 7 World Cup games.
And the unquestionable leadership throughout.
That, versus best in the world based on goals against Grimsby or Bournemouth? Pur-lease.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
World Cup wasn’t supposed to be included though was it?
Sorry, just read the rest of the thread and saw that was covered.
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 4 hours, 54 minutes ago
Haaland probably lost out on reputation and standing in the game, rather than for for voters perceive as actual sporting merit for the year.
Personally, however, there could only be one winner, regardless of whatever else happened, and that's Messi.
Leading your team to a World Cup title is still the absolute pinnacle of what can be achieved in the game. You don't just carry the expectations of the fans, but of an entire nation. It actually took Messi his entire career to reach the point where he could actually withstand the pressure of such an extraordinary level of expectation. It's the crowning moment of an entire career of arguably the best player ever to kick a ball.
I'm aware some nations aren't going to be able to compete, Norway perhaps being one of them - although, if countries like Uruguay or Croatia can, then what's Norway's excuse, with almost double the population and probably 4 or 5 times the financial resources, or more?
Moreover, what about the overall contribution of each
player to their team's performance. City were already at the level required to achieve what they did last season. Close enough to only have been denied by the finest of margins.
Plus, what even was his contribution in the really big games? It's all well and good to muller RB Leipzig in the R16, but what did this record-breaking goalscorer contribute in the real high-stakes games? 0 goals in 3 games for the finals or semis, and virtually no impact whatsoever. Even in the QFs, his goals only served to add comfort to an already very comfortable 2-goal cushion.
Are those really the kind of standout performances that distinguish the world's best player?
Compare to Messi. Six direct goal contributions in the final three games of the World Cup. A brace in the final. 7 goals and 3 assists over 7 World Cup games.
And the unquestionable leadership throughout.
That, versus best in the world based on goals against Grimsby or Bournemouth? Pur-lease.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He won the WC on 18 December, the FIFA award includes the period 19 December to 18 August or something. So that WC was not included, or should not have been. So you wrote an essay without even knowing how the award works.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
Im sure the nominations were to include the world cup and the previous years wasnt due to the dates of the world cup. hence why Benzema won it the year previous
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No they werent included, it specifically stated from 19 December, a day after the WC, because the WC was included in last year's award.
comment by Cloggy (U1250)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
Im sure the nominations were to include the world cup and the previous years wasnt due to the dates of the world cup. hence why Benzema won it the year previous
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No they werent included, it specifically stated from 19 December, a day after the WC, because the WC was included in last year's award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah we already covered this
There is one reason and only one reason Messi won this award and that is FIFA trying to get their grubby hands on the American dollar
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 21 hours, 12 minutes ago
Sorry, just read the rest of the thread and saw that was covered.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup.
Thoughts on Bernardo Silva, melton? What kind of back end of the season did he have?
comment by gone but never forgotten (U21659)
posted 18 hours, 46 minutes ago
There is one reason and only one reason Messi won this award and that is FIFA trying to get their grubby hands on the American dollar
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but FIFA did not decide the winner .... fellow pros and managers voted him the winner. this isnt eh Ballon D'or !
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by gone but never forgotten (U21659)
posted 18 hours, 46 minutes ago
There is one reason and only one reason Messi won this award and that is FIFA trying to get their grubby hands on the American dollar
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but FIFA did not decide the winner .... fellow pros and managers voted him the winner. this isnt eh Ballon D'or !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks that way at face value, doesn't it. However, that does also seem to require a high degree of faith in FIFA not to rig a tight vote in order to achieve a particular desired outcome.
comment by Ding-dong, Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by gone but never forgotten (U21659)
posted 18 hours, 46 minutes ago
There is one reason and only one reason Messi won this award and that is FIFA trying to get their grubby hands on the American dollar
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but FIFA did not decide the winner .... fellow pros and managers voted him the winner. this isnt eh Ballon D'or !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks that way at face value, doesn't it. However, that does also seem to require a high degree of faith in FIFA not to rig a tight vote in order to achieve a particular desired outcome.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
like I said the only way it could be wrong is if the vote was rigged. but there is zero to suggest this is the case.
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 23 hours, 34 minutes ago
"People ignoring those criteria and making their choices on whatever criteria they fancy doesn't make them right at all."
"The fact that a lot of the voters seem to have difficulty taking that very simple idea on board doesn't make them right."
random statements that have zero authenticity or validity.
the award is for who players and managers think performed the best, there is no actual specific gauge or criteria. its who the pros thought performed the best therfore the only way the vote can be wrong is if its rigged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I actually missed this post of yours yesterday.
Those statements might have zero validity for you, but this is a discussion of opinions, not some high court that requires burden of proof.
It's your choice if you want to act as if you really believe those were the genuine grounds that all of those surveyed took into account for the award, but by doing so you come across as either a disingenuous liar, a blind fanboy, and complete idiot, or any combination of the three.
I think that also answers your latest post above. No, of course vote rigging isn't the only explanation for why Messi landed the award.
comment by Ding-dong, Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 23 hours, 34 minutes ago
"People ignoring those criteria and making their choices on whatever criteria they fancy doesn't make them right at all."
"The fact that a lot of the voters seem to have difficulty taking that very simple idea on board doesn't make them right."
random statements that have zero authenticity or validity.
the award is for who players and managers think performed the best, there is no actual specific gauge or criteria. its who the pros thought performed the best therfore the only way the vote can be wrong is if its rigged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I actually missed this post of yours yesterday.
Those statements might have zero validity for you, but this is a discussion of opinions, not some high court that requires burden of proof.
It's your choice if you want to act as if you really believe those were the genuine grounds that all of those surveyed took into account for the award, but by doing so you come across as either a disingenuous liar, a blind fanboy, and complete idiot, or any combination of the three.
I think that also answers your latest post above. No, of course vote rigging isn't the only explanation for why Messi landed the award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you validate the statements that would be helpful.
unless you can provide evidence for this it will just remain a possibility rather than probability.
the past winners do not seem to carry your logic though. cos if it did the most marketable or similar would have won it and not Lewandowski for they two years.
if you can provide proof of your claims then you have a point otherwise its just a random claim.
ps there is only two possible outcomes... either the vote was legit and he won the award voted by his fellow pro's (you and I's opinion of who deserves to win it means absolutely zero as its not an award by fan votes)
we are not the ones that decide the vote.
so either Messi was voted the best by other players and managers or the vote was rigged. what other possibilities are there?
Sign in if you want to comment
Haaland robbed
Page 3 of 4
posted on 16/1/24
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 minutes ago
isnt the FIFA award given to the player who the players and managers think is the best? ie its the players and managers who are voting for their player of the year. Unless your saying the vote was rigged it cant be awarded wrongly surely?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The selection criteria tor The Best FIFA Men's Player and The Best FIFA Men's Goalkeeper 2023 are sporting performance and general conduct on and off the pitch from 19 December 2022 to 20 August 2023 (inclusive).
Those are the criteria, as per the instructions issued by FIFA.
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
I like the bit about "general conduct on and off the pitch", because it endorses Emi using the Golden Gloves trophy as a massive diick in the face of all the authorities. Now we might all know it was one of the grate World Cup moments, but the world of football implicitly acknowledging him for it is just beautiful.
posted on 16/1/24
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 2 hours, 20 minutes ago
I didn’t realise he was the sole member of the Argentina team
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disingenuous misrepresentation of something I didn't say. Which is very you.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I fully agree.
Overall, which footballer would you say put in the best performances in 2023?
I'll be honest, I haven't given it much thought myself.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I fully agree.
Overall, which footballer would you say put in the best performances in 2023?
I'll be honest, I haven't given it much thought myself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably one of Haaland or KDB
posted on 16/1/24
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 minutes ago
isnt the FIFA award given to the player who the players and managers think is the best? ie its the players and managers who are voting for their player of the year. Unless your saying the vote was rigged it cant be awarded wrongly surely?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The selection criteria tor The Best FIFA Men's Player and The Best FIFA Men's Goalkeeper 2023 are sporting performance and general conduct on and off the pitch from 19 December 2022 to 20 August 2023 (inclusive).
Those are the criteria, as per the instructions issued by FIFA.
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
I like the bit about "general conduct on and off the pitch", because it endorses Emi using the Golden Gloves trophy as a massive diick in the face of all the authorities. Now we might all know it was one of the grate World Cup moments, but the world of football implicitly acknowledging him for it is just beautiful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok but its voted by his peers, so its who his peers thought performed better. if you want to be pedantic. I just said it was the best player cos most would assume thats the criteria, the person who performs the best was the best.
the only way it can be wrong is if the vote is rigged.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I fully agree.
Overall, which footballer would you say put in the best performances in 2023?
I'll be honest, I haven't given it much thought myself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s Harry Kane.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by Robb - Glenn Maxwell. Legend. Hero. Icon. (U22716)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 2 minutes ago
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
====
Performance is more than just scoring goals alone. Scoring goals alone should only win the top scorer award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I fully agree.
Overall, which footballer would you say put in the best performances in 2023?
I'll be honest, I haven't given it much thought myself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably one of Haaland or KDB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mbappe. Domestically dominant and hattricks and heroics at the world cup. Performs across all platforms, not just club football unlike Haaland.
I mean, the only thing Haaland has that's better than Mbappe is goals scored. Mbappe is better at everything else.
posted on 16/1/24
Mbappe also performs internationally. Haaland has 3 goals in fack knows how many games. You can't be the best when you don't even exist internationally IMO.
So Haaland scores more goals but Mbappe is better rounded, has tricks and beats players, hardly ever scores tap ins like Haaland and performs across the spectrum.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 5 minutes ago
isnt the FIFA award given to the player who the players and managers think is the best? ie its the players and managers who are voting for their player of the year. Unless your saying the vote was rigged it cant be awarded wrongly surely?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The selection criteria tor The Best FIFA Men's Player and The Best FIFA Men's Goalkeeper 2023 are sporting performance and general conduct on and off the pitch from 19 December 2022 to 20 August 2023 (inclusive).
Those are the criteria, as per the instructions issued by FIFA.
Therefore no, it isn't who "is the best" but who performed better over the selected dates.
I like the bit about "general conduct on and off the pitch", because it endorses Emi using the Golden Gloves trophy as a massive diick in the face of all the authorities. Now we might all know it was one of the grate World Cup moments, but the world of football implicitly acknowledging him for it is just beautiful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ok but its voted by his peers, so its who his peers thought performed better. if you want to be pedantic. I just said it was the best player cos most would assume thats the criteria, the person who performs the best was the best.
the only way it can be wrong is if the vote is rigged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The criteria are established by the organisers of the awards and sent out to every single voting member.
People ignoring those criteria and making their choices on whatever criteria they fancy doesn't make them right at all.
FIFA types the criteria out in black and white for every voter to take into account. In that context "best player" clearly ought to be taken as shorthand for what the award is actually meant to recognise.
The fact that a lot of the voters seem to have difficulty taking that very simple idea on board doesn't make them right.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the essence of your argument seems to be that whoever performed best is a subjective issue, and that therefore voting for someone who did very little of note during the year but who everyone thinks is the most talented footballer is not wrong, because FIFA has awarded them voting rights.
posted on 16/1/24
"People ignoring those criteria and making their choices on whatever criteria they fancy doesn't make them right at all."
"The fact that a lot of the voters seem to have difficulty taking that very simple idea on board doesn't make them right."
random statements that have zero authenticity or validity.
the award is for who players and managers think performed the best, there is no actual specific gauge or criteria. its who the pros thought performed the best therfore the only way the vote can be wrong is if its rigged.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by Thorgen Kloppinson - "When the facts are in your favour, you argue the facts. When facts are not in your favour you argue the process." (U1282)
posted 9 minutes ago
Mbappe also performs internationally. Haaland has 3 goals in fack knows how many games. You can't be the best when you don't even exist internationally IMO.
So Haaland scores more goals but Mbappe is better rounded, has tricks and beats players, hardly ever scores tap ins like Haaland and performs across the spectrum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tend to agree, but the issue is that in 2023 there were no major international tournaments, and in the CL PSG went out with a whimper at the first ko hurdle, all of which greatly reduces the impact of Mbappé's performances, since in term of its level Ligue 1 is only about "the worst of the best" or "the best of the rest".
I'm not sure about KDB - wasn't he injured for a significant stretch?
If I had to think of a player who seems to perform at a very high level whenever I watch him and whose team also had an excellent year, I think I might go for Bernardo Silva - but he go through a bit of a slump for a while when there were mumblings about his contract situation?
Great player nevertheless, probably underrated.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 4 hours, 41 minutes ago
Haaland probably lost out on reputation and standing in the game, rather than for for voters perceive as actual sporting merit for the year.
Personally, however, there could only be one winner, regardless of whatever else happened, and that's Messi.
Leading your team to a World Cup title is still the absolute pinnacle of what can be achieved in the game. You don't just carry the expectations of the fans, but of an entire nation. It actually took Messi his entire career to reach the point where he could actually withstand the pressure of such an extraordinary level of expectation. It's the crowning moment of an entire career of arguably the best player ever to kick a ball.
I'm aware some nations aren't going to be able to compete, Norway perhaps being one of them - although, if countries like Uruguay or Croatia can, then what's Norway's excuse, with almost double the population and probably 4 or 5 times the financial resources, or more?
Moreover, what about the overall contribution of each
player to their team's performance. City were already at the level required to achieve what they did last season. Close enough to only have been denied by the finest of margins.
Plus, what even was his contribution in the really big games? It's all well and good to muller RB Leipzig in the R16, but what did this record-breaking goalscorer contribute in the real high-stakes games? 0 goals in 3 games for the finals or semis, and virtually no impact whatsoever. Even in the QFs, his goals only served to add comfort to an already very comfortable 2-goal cushion.
Are those really the kind of standout performances that distinguish the world's best player?
Compare to Messi. Six direct goal contributions in the final three games of the World Cup. A brace in the final. 7 goals and 3 assists over 7 World Cup games.
And the unquestionable leadership throughout.
That, versus best in the world based on goals against Grimsby or Bournemouth? Pur-lease.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
World Cup wasn’t supposed to be included though was it?
posted on 16/1/24
Sorry, just read the rest of the thread and saw that was covered.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by it'sonlyaludus (U6426)
posted 4 hours, 54 minutes ago
Haaland probably lost out on reputation and standing in the game, rather than for for voters perceive as actual sporting merit for the year.
Personally, however, there could only be one winner, regardless of whatever else happened, and that's Messi.
Leading your team to a World Cup title is still the absolute pinnacle of what can be achieved in the game. You don't just carry the expectations of the fans, but of an entire nation. It actually took Messi his entire career to reach the point where he could actually withstand the pressure of such an extraordinary level of expectation. It's the crowning moment of an entire career of arguably the best player ever to kick a ball.
I'm aware some nations aren't going to be able to compete, Norway perhaps being one of them - although, if countries like Uruguay or Croatia can, then what's Norway's excuse, with almost double the population and probably 4 or 5 times the financial resources, or more?
Moreover, what about the overall contribution of each
player to their team's performance. City were already at the level required to achieve what they did last season. Close enough to only have been denied by the finest of margins.
Plus, what even was his contribution in the really big games? It's all well and good to muller RB Leipzig in the R16, but what did this record-breaking goalscorer contribute in the real high-stakes games? 0 goals in 3 games for the finals or semis, and virtually no impact whatsoever. Even in the QFs, his goals only served to add comfort to an already very comfortable 2-goal cushion.
Are those really the kind of standout performances that distinguish the world's best player?
Compare to Messi. Six direct goal contributions in the final three games of the World Cup. A brace in the final. 7 goals and 3 assists over 7 World Cup games.
And the unquestionable leadership throughout.
That, versus best in the world based on goals against Grimsby or Bournemouth? Pur-lease.
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He won the WC on 18 December, the FIFA award includes the period 19 December to 18 August or something. So that WC was not included, or should not have been. So you wrote an essay without even knowing how the award works.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
Im sure the nominations were to include the world cup and the previous years wasnt due to the dates of the world cup. hence why Benzema won it the year previous
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No they werent included, it specifically stated from 19 December, a day after the WC, because the WC was included in last year's award.
posted on 16/1/24
comment by Cloggy (U1250)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
Im sure the nominations were to include the world cup and the previous years wasnt due to the dates of the world cup. hence why Benzema won it the year previous
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No they werent included, it specifically stated from 19 December, a day after the WC, because the WC was included in last year's award.
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yeah we already covered this
posted on 16/1/24
There is one reason and only one reason Messi won this award and that is FIFA trying to get their grubby hands on the American dollar
posted on 17/1/24
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 21 hours, 12 minutes ago
Sorry, just read the rest of the thread and saw that was covered.
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Yup.
Thoughts on Bernardo Silva, melton? What kind of back end of the season did he have?
posted on 17/1/24
comment by gone but never forgotten (U21659)
posted 18 hours, 46 minutes ago
There is one reason and only one reason Messi won this award and that is FIFA trying to get their grubby hands on the American dollar
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but FIFA did not decide the winner .... fellow pros and managers voted him the winner. this isnt eh Ballon D'or !
posted on 17/1/24
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by gone but never forgotten (U21659)
posted 18 hours, 46 minutes ago
There is one reason and only one reason Messi won this award and that is FIFA trying to get their grubby hands on the American dollar
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but FIFA did not decide the winner .... fellow pros and managers voted him the winner. this isnt eh Ballon D'or !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks that way at face value, doesn't it. However, that does also seem to require a high degree of faith in FIFA not to rig a tight vote in order to achieve a particular desired outcome.
posted on 17/1/24
comment by Ding-dong, Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by gone but never forgotten (U21659)
posted 18 hours, 46 minutes ago
There is one reason and only one reason Messi won this award and that is FIFA trying to get their grubby hands on the American dollar
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but FIFA did not decide the winner .... fellow pros and managers voted him the winner. this isnt eh Ballon D'or !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks that way at face value, doesn't it. However, that does also seem to require a high degree of faith in FIFA not to rig a tight vote in order to achieve a particular desired outcome.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
like I said the only way it could be wrong is if the vote was rigged. but there is zero to suggest this is the case.
posted on 17/1/24
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 23 hours, 34 minutes ago
"People ignoring those criteria and making their choices on whatever criteria they fancy doesn't make them right at all."
"The fact that a lot of the voters seem to have difficulty taking that very simple idea on board doesn't make them right."
random statements that have zero authenticity or validity.
the award is for who players and managers think performed the best, there is no actual specific gauge or criteria. its who the pros thought performed the best therfore the only way the vote can be wrong is if its rigged.
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Sorry, I actually missed this post of yours yesterday.
Those statements might have zero validity for you, but this is a discussion of opinions, not some high court that requires burden of proof.
It's your choice if you want to act as if you really believe those were the genuine grounds that all of those surveyed took into account for the award, but by doing so you come across as either a disingenuous liar, a blind fanboy, and complete idiot, or any combination of the three.
I think that also answers your latest post above. No, of course vote rigging isn't the only explanation for why Messi landed the award.
posted on 17/1/24
comment by Ding-dong, Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by whodunnit (U22710)
posted 23 hours, 34 minutes ago
"People ignoring those criteria and making their choices on whatever criteria they fancy doesn't make them right at all."
"The fact that a lot of the voters seem to have difficulty taking that very simple idea on board doesn't make them right."
random statements that have zero authenticity or validity.
the award is for who players and managers think performed the best, there is no actual specific gauge or criteria. its who the pros thought performed the best therfore the only way the vote can be wrong is if its rigged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I actually missed this post of yours yesterday.
Those statements might have zero validity for you, but this is a discussion of opinions, not some high court that requires burden of proof.
It's your choice if you want to act as if you really believe those were the genuine grounds that all of those surveyed took into account for the award, but by doing so you come across as either a disingenuous liar, a blind fanboy, and complete idiot, or any combination of the three.
I think that also answers your latest post above. No, of course vote rigging isn't the only explanation for why Messi landed the award.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
if you validate the statements that would be helpful.
unless you can provide evidence for this it will just remain a possibility rather than probability.
the past winners do not seem to carry your logic though. cos if it did the most marketable or similar would have won it and not Lewandowski for they two years.
if you can provide proof of your claims then you have a point otherwise its just a random claim.
posted on 17/1/24
ps there is only two possible outcomes... either the vote was legit and he won the award voted by his fellow pro's (you and I's opinion of who deserves to win it means absolutely zero as its not an award by fan votes)
we are not the ones that decide the vote.
so either Messi was voted the best by other players and managers or the vote was rigged. what other possibilities are there?
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