Look at the state of footballers back in the day, it's a different sport now.
Yes some of the tubby beer guzzling players of the past were skilful players but put them in a team of today and they would be our modern Taarabts, Mido, Ndombellys. Talented maybe top finishers but miles off the physical standards.
Yes but it’s all relative. I could also say the players today couldn’t play on heavy pitches with shiiiiiiiiit boots and a wet ball that weighed about 3kg whilst other players were allowed to kick the sh!t out of you.
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
Speaking of the Bundesliga title race, despite the fact that the odds favour Bayern eventually reeling them in, Leverkusen have been seriously impressive under Alonso. It feels inevitable he'll move to Real Madrid next, but if we're replacing ETH in the summer I certainly wouldn't be put off by Alonso's mid-career aberration.
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 54 seconds ago
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I don’t think the two records are due to lifestyle choices but have some attention anyway.
You’re welcome
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 seconds ago
Speaking of the Bundesliga title race, despite the fact that the odds favour Bayern eventually reeling them in, Leverkusen have been seriously impressive under Alonso. It feels inevitable he'll move to Real Madrid next, but if we're replacing ETH in the summer I certainly wouldn't be put off by Alonso's mid-career aberration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlo’s contract extension puts that in doubt I reckon. I’m kinda hoping he stays at Leverkusen, does well in the CL and then takes over from Klopp (if Klopp himself doesn’t extend which of course I hope he does).
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Speaking of the Bundesliga title race, despite the fact that the odds favour Bayern eventually reeling them in, Leverkusen have been seriously impressive under Alonso. It feels inevitable he'll move to Real Madrid next, but if we're replacing ETH in the summer I certainly wouldn't be put off by Alonso's mid-career aberration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Playing for Madrid isn’t that bad surely?
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes but it’s all relative. I could also say the players today couldn’t play on heavy pitches with shiiiiiiiiit boots and a wet ball that weighed about 3kg whilst other players were allowed to kick the sh!t out of you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You just described gladiators from the 1600s...not footballers
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're talking as though they suddenly switched from black and white to colour in September 1992. Professionalisation of all aspects of the sport happened gradually and began long before the PL, which did of course accelerate that process due to the money flooding in. Late 90s football is still more like 80s football than today's game. Would Alan Shearer have been as impactful in today's football as he was in his time? I doubt it.
This post perfectly captures the delusion of the United fan. You still believe you're that same club from the Ferguson years with all the draw it came with. You're not. As it stands, Spurs are the more attractive proposition. Heading in the right direction, playing great football, able to spend well in an era of FFP, best stadium and training ground in the league, the lure of London. This list goes on.
I think you've lost sight of how far your stock has fallen. You're not going to pick up the Kane's of this world anymore and neither should you. You'll have more luck transforming the recruitment model and following our lead of buying young up and coming players to build for the future rather than splurging on the finished article time and again. You've already tried that and all you're left with is a bunch of 30-something creaking bones and long, expensive contracts.
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 9 minutes ago
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure the start of the Prem should be the cut off for modern football though if you're talking about the difference in skill.
Some of the football in the 90s was abysmal.
fridgeboy
I agree with much of what you said, e.g. doubt that Kane would have agreed to join United last summer, and agree that our recruitment needs to focus on players approaching their prime (we also need to profile players much better and act decisively when the right ones become available - the defects of our operation are a long story).
I think you slightly overcook the "Spurs is the future / United can't buy top players" narrative. As you say, we've splurged time and again, often injudiciously, on supposedly 'finished article' players since Fergie left. Despite financial and strategic mismanagement, the club still has consistently bought sought-after and very expensive players, which I think reflects both the continuing revenues and spending power (to which which FFP is only a temporary interruption) and the "super club" draw. Spurs have been well run for a long period of time and reached a level of sporting achievement that certainly competes with the United overseen by the complacent and incompetent Glazers. I would expect that if INEOS provides intelligent leadership and recruits people from the top of the industry to take responsibility for sporting and business strategy, we'll see a much more potent team taking shape on the field.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
fridgeboy
I agree with much of what you said, e.g. doubt that Kane would have agreed to join United last summer, and agree that our recruitment needs to focus on players approaching their prime (we also need to profile players much better and act decisively when the right ones become available - the defects of our operation are a long story).
I think you slightly overcook the "Spurs is the future / United can't buy top players" narrative. As you say, we've splurged time and again, often injudiciously, on supposedly 'finished article' players since Fergie left. Despite financial and strategic mismanagement, the club still has consistently bought sought-after and very expensive players, which I think reflects both the continuing revenues and spending power (to which which FFP is only a temporary interruption) and the "super club" draw. Spurs have been well run for a long period of time and reached a level of sporting achievement that certainly competes with the United overseen by the complacent and incompetent Glazers. I would expect that if INEOS provides intelligent leadership and recruits people from the top of the industry to take responsibility for sporting and business strategy, we'll see a much more potent team taking shape on the field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That I do agree with.
If United were as well run as Spurs, they'd be in another stratosphere. You still generate huge funds worldwide so you still have some wiggle room. Mistakes are often patched up with further big name signings, which, absurdly, long-term, become mistakes themselves.
I know that Gary Neville seems to suggest that the financial mite of United is dwindling fast and they won't be able to spend as well in the coming years although I can't quite understand where he's coming from there as I thought you were still one of the top earners in world football. Maybe he means that with each passing generation, there are more and more City fans, more and more fans of teams competing for the CL so the revenue, although huge, maybe slowing down.
There's absolutely no doubt about it though. United at their worst basically puts them level with Spurs at their best. We have to work hard to maintain this level. If Ineos get things right, United will be a force again. I just think you're a long, long way from it and really you need everything ripped up and built from scratch. Ten Hag shouldn't be dictating signings. Let him coach and get a Sporting Director in to sign the players with a long term vision, in collaboration with ETH (without autonomy).
You also need to need to put huge funds into rebuilding your scouting network to recapture the talent, particularly in the north west. Think of the Foden's and Palmer's you could have got if you had the network you used to have. You need young lads in that understand what it means to play for their local club. You also need real leaders in that dressing room to coach those younger lads the professionalism to do their very best every single day, not just on match day. Control, discipline and professionalism. It's all gone. Honestly, SAF must be tearing his hair out watch this rabble.
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Cinciwolf----JA06 NFL Fantasy CHAMP 2023 (U11551)
posted 8 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by downtheplughole (U22523)
posted 2 hours, 14 minutes ago
Doesn't mean JOT. being all time leading goal scorer in the premier league. he would be still miles behind the whole time,top league scorer. (people seem to think football started with the premier league)
If hes doesn't win the league Bayern this season. he''ll do it next season.. No chance of that with Man-united or Tottenham
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is bizarre how people consider the premier league a new competition. It was a fackin name change, the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
name changed
After PL came in, in 1992, the whole structure of football changed. More money in the game, better players, world class players no less, and world class managers, with the more competitive squads, better training regimes. more focused on being athletes
But yeah a name change
-------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve just described football, not the Premier League
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
Agree with all that, Fridgeboy. I don't assume it's a quick path back to being well run, and there's no direct line from being well run to being successful on the pitch - especially in the exceedingly competitive PL. But I'm OK with that. My formative years as a United supporter were in the 80s, a time of mediocre football and disappointment, so I never had the instinctive sense that we had a 'rightful place' at the top of the tree.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Agree with all that, Fridgeboy. I don't assume it's a quick path back to being well run, and there's no direct line from being well run to being successful on the pitch - especially in the exceedingly competitive PL. But I'm OK with that. My formative years as a United supporter were in the 80s, a time of mediocre football and disappointment, so I never had the instinctive sense that we had a 'rightful place' at the top of the tree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So were mine, so I've barely seen Spurs lift any kind of trophy, aside from the 91 cup final. I was too young for the early 80s success.
One thing is for sure, FFP, whilst good for Spurs because of how we're run, is amazing news for Liverpool and United. It keeps the traditional big hitters at the top of the tree. You will be back but it'll require patience whilst the rebuild takes place. I think that's part of the problem. As Spurs fans we don't expect anything so we can quietly build stadiums and training grounds without much fuss. At United, there's an expectation to win and win now, which I think is hampering you're ability to think long term. Whoever comes in and makes a plan needs to ignore the noise and focus on the vision.
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 22 minutes ago
It’s not hard to work out why the prem has its own records, and it isn’t just because of a name change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's basically a very convenient marketing exercise. No other national league that I'm aware of does it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was more than that as it was established to be separate from the EFL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Corporately different.
It meant no substantial change to the competition format. It was still the top flight of English football, relegated sides into the same division, took promoted sides from the same division.
In what major way was the actual competition itself different from the 1991-92 season, other than in name?
Essentially, it was just a reorganisation from a business perspective. There's no substantial reason to carve it away from the history of top flight English football.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about the reduction in the number of teams and thus games and opportunities to score goals.
I believe it was the 93/94 season when it was reduced to the 20 team format that we have now.
Jimmy Greaves played for 22 seasons. Those 4 extras games per season add up over the course of a career. So it makes perfect sense to have a separate goal scoring record for the PL.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're talking as though they suddenly switched from black and white to colour in September 1992. Professionalisation of all aspects of the sport happened gradually and began long before the PL, which did of course accelerate that process due to the money flooding in. Late 90s football is still more like 80s football than today's game. Would Alan Shearer have been as impactful in today's football as he was in his time? I doubt it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. The post you replied to would have you believe football actually was reinvented in 1992.
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I have to correct myself there.
The top flight was indeed 22 teams in most of the Football League era. My own memory playing trick on me there.
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I have to correct myself there.
The top flight was indeed 22 teams in most of the Football League era. My own memory playing trick on me there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that they reduced it to 21 teams one season then down to 20 the following season.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I have to correct myself there.
The top flight was indeed 22 teams in most of the Football League era. My own memory playing trick on me there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that they reduced it to 21 teams one season then down to 20 the following season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. Funny that, I would've sworn it was 20, I just completely misremembered it.
I thought maybe I'd conflated it with La Liga, as I'd also have sworn La Liga was 20 teams for as long as I could remember except for a similarly brief 22-team spell in the '90s. Checking back, it turns out it only went from 18 to 20 in the late '80s.
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I have to correct myself there.
The top flight was indeed 22 teams in most of the Football League era. My own memory playing trick on me there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that they reduced it to 21 teams one season then down to 20 the following season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. Funny that, I would've sworn it was 20, I just completely misremembered it.
I thought maybe I'd conflated it with La Liga, as I'd also have sworn La Liga was 20 teams for as long as I could remember except for a similarly brief 22-team spell in the '90s. Checking back, it turns out it only went from 18 to 20 in the late '80s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Mandela effect!
That said though, Elvis, Shearer's PL record also includes a number of 22-team seasons, but it's still considered the PL record nonetheless.
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 8 minutes ago
That said though, Elvis, Shearer's PL record also includes a number of 22-team seasons, but it's still considered the PL record nonetheless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just having a look and Shearer played 3 seasons with 22 teams.
He also has 23 goals in the old first division that aren't included in his PL record.
So I guess that kind of evens it out.
I was wrong about the league being reduced by 1 team for 2 consecutive seasons. It was actually 5 teams that were relegated at the end of the 94/95 season.
Sign in if you want to comment
Harry Kane
Page 2 of 3
posted on 24/1/24
Look at the state of footballers back in the day, it's a different sport now.
Yes some of the tubby beer guzzling players of the past were skilful players but put them in a team of today and they would be our modern Taarabts, Mido, Ndombellys. Talented maybe top finishers but miles off the physical standards.
posted on 24/1/24
Yes but it’s all relative. I could also say the players today couldn’t play on heavy pitches with shiiiiiiiiit boots and a wet ball that weighed about 3kg whilst other players were allowed to kick the sh!t out of you.
posted on 24/1/24
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
posted on 24/1/24
Speaking of the Bundesliga title race, despite the fact that the odds favour Bayern eventually reeling them in, Leverkusen have been seriously impressive under Alonso. It feels inevitable he'll move to Real Madrid next, but if we're replacing ETH in the summer I certainly wouldn't be put off by Alonso's mid-career aberration.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 54 seconds ago
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I don’t think the two records are due to lifestyle choices but have some attention anyway.
You’re welcome
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 18 seconds ago
Speaking of the Bundesliga title race, despite the fact that the odds favour Bayern eventually reeling them in, Leverkusen have been seriously impressive under Alonso. It feels inevitable he'll move to Real Madrid next, but if we're replacing ETH in the summer I certainly wouldn't be put off by Alonso's mid-career aberration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Carlo’s contract extension puts that in doubt I reckon. I’m kinda hoping he stays at Leverkusen, does well in the CL and then takes over from Klopp (if Klopp himself doesn’t extend which of course I hope he does).
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Speaking of the Bundesliga title race, despite the fact that the odds favour Bayern eventually reeling them in, Leverkusen have been seriously impressive under Alonso. It feels inevitable he'll move to Real Madrid next, but if we're replacing ETH in the summer I certainly wouldn't be put off by Alonso's mid-career aberration.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Playing for Madrid isn’t that bad surely?
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
Yes but it’s all relative. I could also say the players today couldn’t play on heavy pitches with shiiiiiiiiit boots and a wet ball that weighed about 3kg whilst other players were allowed to kick the sh!t out of you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You just described gladiators from the 1600s...not footballers
posted on 24/1/24
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're talking as though they suddenly switched from black and white to colour in September 1992. Professionalisation of all aspects of the sport happened gradually and began long before the PL, which did of course accelerate that process due to the money flooding in. Late 90s football is still more like 80s football than today's game. Would Alan Shearer have been as impactful in today's football as he was in his time? I doubt it.
posted on 24/1/24
This post perfectly captures the delusion of the United fan. You still believe you're that same club from the Ferguson years with all the draw it came with. You're not. As it stands, Spurs are the more attractive proposition. Heading in the right direction, playing great football, able to spend well in an era of FFP, best stadium and training ground in the league, the lure of London. This list goes on.
I think you've lost sight of how far your stock has fallen. You're not going to pick up the Kane's of this world anymore and neither should you. You'll have more luck transforming the recruitment model and following our lead of buying young up and coming players to build for the future rather than splurging on the finished article time and again. You've already tried that and all you're left with is a bunch of 30-something creaking bones and long, expensive contracts.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 9 minutes ago
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure the start of the Prem should be the cut off for modern football though if you're talking about the difference in skill.
Some of the football in the 90s was abysmal.
posted on 24/1/24
fridgeboy
I agree with much of what you said, e.g. doubt that Kane would have agreed to join United last summer, and agree that our recruitment needs to focus on players approaching their prime (we also need to profile players much better and act decisively when the right ones become available - the defects of our operation are a long story).
I think you slightly overcook the "Spurs is the future / United can't buy top players" narrative. As you say, we've splurged time and again, often injudiciously, on supposedly 'finished article' players since Fergie left. Despite financial and strategic mismanagement, the club still has consistently bought sought-after and very expensive players, which I think reflects both the continuing revenues and spending power (to which which FFP is only a temporary interruption) and the "super club" draw. Spurs have been well run for a long period of time and reached a level of sporting achievement that certainly competes with the United overseen by the complacent and incompetent Glazers. I would expect that if INEOS provides intelligent leadership and recruits people from the top of the industry to take responsibility for sporting and business strategy, we'll see a much more potent team taking shape on the field.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 21 minutes ago
fridgeboy
I agree with much of what you said, e.g. doubt that Kane would have agreed to join United last summer, and agree that our recruitment needs to focus on players approaching their prime (we also need to profile players much better and act decisively when the right ones become available - the defects of our operation are a long story).
I think you slightly overcook the "Spurs is the future / United can't buy top players" narrative. As you say, we've splurged time and again, often injudiciously, on supposedly 'finished article' players since Fergie left. Despite financial and strategic mismanagement, the club still has consistently bought sought-after and very expensive players, which I think reflects both the continuing revenues and spending power (to which which FFP is only a temporary interruption) and the "super club" draw. Spurs have been well run for a long period of time and reached a level of sporting achievement that certainly competes with the United overseen by the complacent and incompetent Glazers. I would expect that if INEOS provides intelligent leadership and recruits people from the top of the industry to take responsibility for sporting and business strategy, we'll see a much more potent team taking shape on the field.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That I do agree with.
If United were as well run as Spurs, they'd be in another stratosphere. You still generate huge funds worldwide so you still have some wiggle room. Mistakes are often patched up with further big name signings, which, absurdly, long-term, become mistakes themselves.
I know that Gary Neville seems to suggest that the financial mite of United is dwindling fast and they won't be able to spend as well in the coming years although I can't quite understand where he's coming from there as I thought you were still one of the top earners in world football. Maybe he means that with each passing generation, there are more and more City fans, more and more fans of teams competing for the CL so the revenue, although huge, maybe slowing down.
There's absolutely no doubt about it though. United at their worst basically puts them level with Spurs at their best. We have to work hard to maintain this level. If Ineos get things right, United will be a force again. I just think you're a long, long way from it and really you need everything ripped up and built from scratch. Ten Hag shouldn't be dictating signings. Let him coach and get a Sporting Director in to sign the players with a long term vision, in collaboration with ETH (without autonomy).
You also need to need to put huge funds into rebuilding your scouting network to recapture the talent, particularly in the north west. Think of the Foden's and Palmer's you could have got if you had the network you used to have. You need young lads in that understand what it means to play for their local club. You also need real leaders in that dressing room to coach those younger lads the professionalism to do their very best every single day, not just on match day. Control, discipline and professionalism. It's all gone. Honestly, SAF must be tearing his hair out watch this rabble.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by He who Dares, waits for Trophies (U15748)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Cinciwolf----JA06 NFL Fantasy CHAMP 2023 (U11551)
posted 8 hours, 18 minutes ago
comment by downtheplughole (U22523)
posted 2 hours, 14 minutes ago
Doesn't mean JOT. being all time leading goal scorer in the premier league. he would be still miles behind the whole time,top league scorer. (people seem to think football started with the premier league)
If hes doesn't win the league Bayern this season. he''ll do it next season.. No chance of that with Man-united or Tottenham
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is bizarre how people consider the premier league a new competition. It was a fackin name change, the end.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
name changed
After PL came in, in 1992, the whole structure of football changed. More money in the game, better players, world class players no less, and world class managers, with the more competitive squads, better training regimes. more focused on being athletes
But yeah a name change
-------------------------------------------------------------------
You’ve just described football, not the Premier League
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
posted on 24/1/24
Agree with all that, Fridgeboy. I don't assume it's a quick path back to being well run, and there's no direct line from being well run to being successful on the pitch - especially in the exceedingly competitive PL. But I'm OK with that. My formative years as a United supporter were in the 80s, a time of mediocre football and disappointment, so I never had the instinctive sense that we had a 'rightful place' at the top of the tree.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 minute ago
Agree with all that, Fridgeboy. I don't assume it's a quick path back to being well run, and there's no direct line from being well run to being successful on the pitch - especially in the exceedingly competitive PL. But I'm OK with that. My formative years as a United supporter were in the 80s, a time of mediocre football and disappointment, so I never had the instinctive sense that we had a 'rightful place' at the top of the tree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So were mine, so I've barely seen Spurs lift any kind of trophy, aside from the 91 cup final. I was too young for the early 80s success.
One thing is for sure, FFP, whilst good for Spurs because of how we're run, is amazing news for Liverpool and United. It keeps the traditional big hitters at the top of the tree. You will be back but it'll require patience whilst the rebuild takes place. I think that's part of the problem. As Spurs fans we don't expect anything so we can quietly build stadiums and training grounds without much fuss. At United, there's an expectation to win and win now, which I think is hampering you're ability to think long term. Whoever comes in and makes a plan needs to ignore the noise and focus on the vision.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Kobbie The King Mainoo (U10026)
posted 22 minutes ago
It’s not hard to work out why the prem has its own records, and it isn’t just because of a name change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's basically a very convenient marketing exercise. No other national league that I'm aware of does it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was more than that as it was established to be separate from the EFL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Corporately different.
It meant no substantial change to the competition format. It was still the top flight of English football, relegated sides into the same division, took promoted sides from the same division.
In what major way was the actual competition itself different from the 1991-92 season, other than in name?
Essentially, it was just a reorganisation from a business perspective. There's no substantial reason to carve it away from the history of top flight English football.
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What about the reduction in the number of teams and thus games and opportunities to score goals.
I believe it was the 93/94 season when it was reduced to the 20 team format that we have now.
Jimmy Greaves played for 22 seasons. Those 4 extras games per season add up over the course of a career. So it makes perfect sense to have a separate goal scoring record for the PL.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
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That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by HB Maybe Beale wasn't the mastermind (U21935)
posted 1 minute ago
So there's a clear difference in the football, hence why 2 different records are kept.
One for nostalgia fluffers and one for real modern football for proper athletes.
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You're talking as though they suddenly switched from black and white to colour in September 1992. Professionalisation of all aspects of the sport happened gradually and began long before the PL, which did of course accelerate that process due to the money flooding in. Late 90s football is still more like 80s football than today's game. Would Alan Shearer have been as impactful in today's football as he was in his time? I doubt it.
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Exactly. The post you replied to would have you believe football actually was reinvented in 1992.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I have to correct myself there.
The top flight was indeed 22 teams in most of the Football League era. My own memory playing trick on me there.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I have to correct myself there.
The top flight was indeed 22 teams in most of the Football League era. My own memory playing trick on me there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that they reduced it to 21 teams one season then down to 20 the following season.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I have to correct myself there.
The top flight was indeed 22 teams in most of the Football League era. My own memory playing trick on me there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that they reduced it to 21 teams one season then down to 20 the following season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. Funny that, I would've sworn it was 20, I just completely misremembered it.
I thought maybe I'd conflated it with La Liga, as I'd also have sworn La Liga was 20 teams for as long as I could remember except for a similarly brief 22-team spell in the '90s. Checking back, it turns out it only went from 18 to 20 in the late '80s.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone!LAJM!(U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 6 minutes ago
The only change that matters when is comes to goals scoring records is the number of games played in the season. Obviously there were more league games back in the day so more chances to score.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was only a temporary change made in 1991-92. It was actually a 22-team league for longer under the PL than it was as the old First Division.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I have to correct myself there.
The top flight was indeed 22 teams in most of the Football League era. My own memory playing trick on me there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that they reduced it to 21 teams one season then down to 20 the following season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. Funny that, I would've sworn it was 20, I just completely misremembered it.
I thought maybe I'd conflated it with La Liga, as I'd also have sworn La Liga was 20 teams for as long as I could remember except for a similarly brief 22-team spell in the '90s. Checking back, it turns out it only went from 18 to 20 in the late '80s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Mandela effect!
posted on 24/1/24
That said though, Elvis, Shearer's PL record also includes a number of 22-team seasons, but it's still considered the PL record nonetheless.
posted on 24/1/24
comment by Ding! Dong! Mourinho's gone! LAJM! (U6426)
posted 8 minutes ago
That said though, Elvis, Shearer's PL record also includes a number of 22-team seasons, but it's still considered the PL record nonetheless.
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Just having a look and Shearer played 3 seasons with 22 teams.
He also has 23 goals in the old first division that aren't included in his PL record.
So I guess that kind of evens it out.
I was wrong about the league being reduced by 1 team for 2 consecutive seasons. It was actually 5 teams that were relegated at the end of the 94/95 season.
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