Sounds like you need an Extraction, not a distraction


Southgate will be the reason England fall short again in the summer

Doubt he will go into club management tbh. Probably go "upstairs" at a club like Boro.

comment by Mack (U6574)
posted 17 minutes ago
Sounds like you need an Extraction, not a distraction


Southgate will be the reason England fall short again in the summer
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Made me smile

You could level this at most managers of the top international nations. Italy and Germany are the only ones that have a manager that would be welcomed by many fans of top half clubs around Europe. The best managers aren’t usually in international management, for obvious reasons.

comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
You could level this at most managers of the top international nations. Italy and Germany are the only ones that have a manager that would be welcomed by many fans of top half clubs around Europe. The best managers aren’t usually in international management, for obvious reasons.
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France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal (maybe) definitely top half jobs in offing, probably more fore people in the know, I mean, Brighton pick em from somewhere.

Just think, if we do win the Euros, Gareth will become Sir Gareth ! will it be merited then ?

comment by Not So Bored As Fudge (U21998)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
You could level this at most managers of the top international nations. Italy and Germany are the only ones that have a manager that would be welcomed by many fans of top half clubs around Europe. The best managers aren’t usually in international management, for obvious reasons.
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France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal (maybe) definitely top half jobs in offing, probably more fore people in the know, I mean, Brighton pick em from somewhere.
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I doubt that. Roberto Martinez and Dechamps don’t have good reputations, despite their results at international level, and nobody has even bloody heard of the Spain manager outside of Spain.

international managers have a completely different job to club managers that require different skills. it's like a different sport almost.

comment by Not So Bored As Fudge (U21998)
posted 52 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 9 minutes ago
You could level this at most managers of the top international nations. Italy and Germany are the only ones that have a manager that would be welcomed by many fans of top half clubs around Europe. The best managers aren’t usually in international management, for obvious reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal (maybe) definitely top half jobs in offing, probably more fore people in the know, I mean, Brighton pick em from somewhere.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, but they are all foreign, so they will naturally be more of a target for top clubs over an English manager.

How many international managers anywhere would clubs want?

It’s a complete non-issue and Southgate is par for an international role.

Can see Darren has beat me to it.

hes cack

I think Southgate gets a bit of a raw deal. Since he got the job in 2016 he's never really had any truly top class central defenders. The best he's had is Maguire, who is routinely derided at every away game at club level, and John Stones, who, whilst technically brilliant playing progressively, isn't a great defender unless he's playing for a side that doesn't have to defend all that much. There's no Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, King, Adams or Carragher to lean on. He has no choice but to play cautious football really. Playing two holding I think is a product of those centre halves needing protection more than those of previous generations.

The problem with that method is that we don't tend to have the ball as much as we should and that means at an international tournament with games every few days, fatigue kicks in more than it would with sides that have the ball more.

I just think Southgate gets labelled a defensive manager when in reality it's the make up of his squad that makes him that way. At club level, he could buy who he needed to play 'his' way. That said, it's a completely different game. International managers don't make great club managers and vice versa, unless those club managers were heralded for their man-management over their tactical nous. There's a reason Robson and Venables were the two stand outs prior to Southgate's tenure. Their strengths always lied in dealing with the person behind the player and that's what international management is. It's no good getting someone like Pep in because how on earth do you drill complex tactics in a group you maybe see once every few months? The best international managers keep the message simple and the morale high.

If Southgate does go, and I'm not sure he should, if he does go back into club management he's going to find it really hard I think. Completely different game.

he is a defensive manager.

I don't really have a problem with that. international football is defensive.

comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 6 minutes ago
he is a defensive manager.

I don't really have a problem with that. international football is defensive.
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Isn't he best described as a pragmatic manager? He's only defensive on account of his lack of truly strong defensive options. I think we're just labelling him defensive because he was a defender.

Remember he used to play with a back three and then we got overrun in midfield against Croatia in 2018 and he went back to a flat back four for subsequent tournaments. He's opened up a bit more now we have a greater midfield talent pool and I think he'd do the same if we had a truly world class centre half to call upon like a VVD.

comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 23 minutes ago
he is a defensive manager.

I don't really have a problem with that. international football is defensive.
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Perception is a weird thing as well. Saw someone say that France and Portugal don’t play defensively at tournaments.

Defensive or not, the main issue with Southgate for me is squad and team selection. He never does anything inventive or surprising. He lacks the nous to get us across the line. Hopefully I'm proven wrong this summer

comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 23 minutes ago
he is a defensive manager.

I don't really have a problem with that. international football is defensive.
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Perception is a weird thing as well. Saw someone say that France and Portugal don’t play defensively at tournaments.
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Yeah that was on my thread I think, going on like Deschamps plays free flowing total football.

Imo the criticism of Southgate is more often than not lazy and poorly thought out.

comment by Robbing Hoody (U6374)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 23 minutes ago
he is a defensive manager.

I don't really have a problem with that. international football is defensive.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perception is a weird thing as well. Saw someone say that France and Portugal don’t play defensively at tournaments.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah that was on my thread I think, going on like Deschamps plays free flowing total football.

Imo the criticism of Southgate is more often than not lazy and poorly thought out.
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Agree with that.

I get the feeling people also think the squad has been as strong as it is now since his first game in charge.

It really wasn’t, it had huge problems with balance (and still does but to a lesser degree).

Southgate's starting back four in Russia in 2018 was:

Walker Stones Maguire Trippier

Six years on, his starting back four in Germany will be:

Walker Stones Maguire Trippier

And that, right there, is the main problem. There's no one coming through trusted enough to do the job. Braithewaite might be decent but clearly him and Quansah are subs for a reason. This is why we won't win the Euros. We've just not had a brilliant generation of players that spread across the entire squad. Our best players are further up the pitch.

And that, right there, is the main problem. Southgate can't or won't do anything even slightly outside the box. Something something doing the same thing over and over

What kind of thing would you be looking for Bales? Are there examples of other International managers doing the same kind of things?

I mean if I knew I'd be a football manager but I think we know it when we see it. As examples though, I'd be looking for him moving on from players like Maguire and Henderson earlier, when they've shown they've not done it like Germany does. Making big calls in big games to make a difference, like Mancini did to beat us in the last Euros.

It's fine margins and I don't hate Southgate. He's alright. I'm just saying alright gets you through tournaments with a decent squad but won't win you them.

Is beating us on penalties thinking outside of the box? I don’t think so myself.

I mean it gets to the point, imo, that the players should be held accountable to a degree.