comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
I think a lot of the criticism wouldn't be there had he planned a lot better given the number of square pegs in round holes.
- Picking one natural left back who at best will be fit for 3 games.
- Foden has spent the past 18 months exclusively playing RW or in midfield for England but he then puts him LW when the tournament starts.
- He's had basically 2 years to find a Kalvin Phillips replacement or adapt tactics if there's no suitable alternative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So he wouldn't be getting criticism for bad management if he didn't manage badly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He would but he's opened himself up to more criticism by doing things like the above.
If Foden for example was playing in the middle or on the right and not performing you can say that's down to Foden just having a poor tournament, but by playing him on the left it becomes a Southgate issue because we now don't know if it's just because he's playing out of position.
"And the goal comes from all of the defence being drawn to the left to compensate for a perceived weakness."
Disagree with that, the goal came because of a calamity of errors from a few players.
Rice was 10 yards too high up the pitch then doesn't follow his runner. Stones doesn't read the header so Guehi goes for it, then we have two centre halves within 6 yards of each other and two attackers in behind them. Walker makes the right decision to cover the right flank but Stones also moves his body that way leaving them to put a simple pass through.
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 minutes ago
I heard a stat that Southgate's England has played a top 10 ranked team 24 times in his 100 games and won 4 of them..
What makes me chuckle is that for all England's careful possession and tippy tappy ball retention based tactics and setup, its a long throw and 2nd phase from a corner which got us through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The long ball thing was ridiculous. We've got all these quality attacking players and Southgate wants us to be Stoke City under Pulis.
I wish the FA had the balls to do what's right before it's too late.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What sack him on the eve of a quarter final with Switzerland - yer faaaacking mental if you think that’s happening.
He will be here for the duration of our tournament - however long that may be, get over it.
The worst his record will read now is:
Semi final
Final
Quarter final
Quarter final
Statistically he is Englands second greatest tournament manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes sack him. It's only going one way. You can see the players are being held back by negative tactics. He's a nice guy and might get on with the players, who want to protect him, but the set up and coaching is not good enough. As the saying goes, nice guys finish last. You actually need to take risks if you want to be truly successful.
I'd get in touch with Redknapp to see if he would be willing to take over for the remainder of the Euros.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then you are delusional
Faaaacking Redknapp who’s legendary level of tactics amount to “run around a bit”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Redknapp who has won things, got into a top 4 twice with Spurs, got 5th with West Ham.
Who has been a better English manager in the PL era?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why hasn’t Redknapp worked for years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Happy with retirement I assume, I don't know. Who has been a better English manager than him in the last 30 years? Has Redknapp not been as good as Southgate then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has had virtually no competition in the time period - Potter, Dyche, Curbs.
It’s not exactly a great yard stick is it
You could argue Eddie Howe has done more with less. You could mention Redknapp got Southampton relegated and Pompey went financially tiiits up after he left having spent quite a bit.
But yes, Redknapp was a good manager a decade ago - the blokes not managed for years - you are clearly mental if you think he is the answer for England now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if he is the answer but I'd have more faith in that than carrying on with this same riskless manager who persists with not changing what doesn't work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn’t work but we’re in the Quarter final whilst Italy and Croatia are at home and 2 of France, Spain, Germany, Portugal cannot progress further than us. After we’re won our group - which France and Belgium didn’t.
We are unbeaten - Portugal aren’t
But clearly nothing is working
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They've played better teams or had less luck than we have. You cannot convince me we haven't progressed via luck. Absolutely got away with it last night.
I don't really care what other teams are doing, teams by the way who have won things, where we haven't.
Pretty sure you were hyping our defensive record in this tournament the other day too, when we looked particularly shaky at times yesterday. Hardly any of our defenders had a good game. Be interesting to see how it holds up against Switzerland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We had statistically the second best defence in the group stage - I stated that, it isn’t hype, it’s a fact.
At the same time I have been slaughtering the use of Trippier at LB - it’s ridiculous, but Southgate painted himself into a corner by A) picking an unfit Luke Shaw B) picking Wharton over a left back
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Best defence in the group stages means very little though. There'd be what, only 1 or 2 goals in it between us and other teams? We still haven't played anyone of note either. It's just not a stat even worth bringing up to try and justify England doing well in this tournament so far.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn’t use it for that purpose, I was asked what the positives were for England at the end of the group stage - and used that fact. We never really looked like conceding in the group stage whereas yesterday we were woeful and Slovakia had they kept attacking us would have almost certainly scored again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our defence was solid in the group almost by default. Weak teams in the group and a couple of those (Slovenia mostly) were just happy to put players behind the ball and get a point out of us by making it difficult for us to penetrate them.
If it looks solid against the better teams then it may be worth mentioning.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were up against 3 of the hottest strikers in Europe - Vlahovic, Rasmus and Sesko - about £250m between them.
If I or you had just dismissed them pre tournament we would have been called arrogant, etc. But now England have neutralised them the narrative changes to how they aren’t that good and those sides aren’t that good blah blah.
It’s boring, we were defensively strong in the group but were poor yesterday - and Slovakia didn’t have an attacker of the level of the other 3 sides, so it was even more frustrating as we were essentially undone by their speed out wide and Walker not holding his position properly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guehi's yellow yesterday was the fault of a hospital pass from Trippier. And the goal comes from all of the defence being drawn to the left to compensate for a perceived weakness. In fact, Walker had an awful game last night, but if you look carefully, the position of the whole defence was skewed a little to the left so Walker had too much space to cover and was being passed both inside and down the line. That's highlighted more by not having an established midfield partnership to help out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good analysis, I had missed that. I don’t think it’s a perceived weakness down the left - Trippier is awful in that position - if Ndoye drift to the right on Saturday then we’re in a world of trouble.
We need Shaw back
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 40 minutes ago
Wrote this on another thread but it's relevant to much that has been expressed here. Southgate is just inept and is lucky to have good players who have a moment in matches that swings them our way.
Southgate seems to stagger his way through matches. But you really must question his ability as a coach and tactically.
For a start, taking just one left back, who was injured and hasn't played for 5 months. WTF??? Mitchell or Chilwell had to go, just to give balance and width and players who run beyond and not have to turn in and slow play down always. With our defensive frailties, even Colwill would have been a better option, he's left footed and although doesn't excel at wing back, would do a hell of a lot more than our other options. He also covers central defence.
Then, the midfield conundrum. He waits until the Euros before he tries to find a partner for Rice. Mainoo did okay last night, at least he was positive in looking to go forward always. But this should have been sorted months back.
Not taking Grealish. He's not one of my favourite players but we are always being told abouot players who offer something different. Well, when we're 1-0 up or 0-1 down, Grealish can actually dribble the ball, change the pace of the game and most importantly draw free kicks.
His reluctance to drop Saka for Palmer. Palmer is a more positive player who wants to get involved in the game, If we are dominating and attacking well, Saka is a danger, but we look better when Palmer comes on because he finds positions to pick up the ball and his intention is always forward. We lack players who want to grab the initiative and Palmer is one.
Bringing Eze on in front of Gordon, who will stay wide and actually run at the full back. It makes no sense. Continuing with Foden and Bellingham taking space away from each other.
In short, balance won´t come just from changing Rice's midfield partner. Mistakes were made even before we got the the Euros in terms of personnel and bigger errors are being commited with team selections during the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
I think a lot of the criticism wouldn't be there had he planned a lot better given the number of square pegs in round holes.
- Picking one natural left back who at best will be fit for 3 games.
- Foden has spent the past 18 months exclusively playing RW or in midfield for England but he then puts him LW when the tournament starts.
- He's had basically 2 years to find a Kalvin Phillips replacement or adapt tactics if there's no suitable alternative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So he wouldn't be getting criticism for bad management if he didn't manage badly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He would but he's opened himself up to more criticism by doing things like the above.
If Foden for example was playing in the middle or on the right and not performing you can say that's down to Foden just having a poor tournament, but by playing him on the left it becomes a Southgate issue because we now don't know if it's just because he's playing out of position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was joking mate I agree, the balance is off and it's obvious why.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
I think a lot of the criticism wouldn't be there had he planned a lot better given the number of square pegs in round holes.
- Picking one natural left back who at best will be fit for 3 games.
- Foden has spent the past 18 months exclusively playing RW or in midfield for England but he then puts him LW when the tournament starts.
- He's had basically 2 years to find a Kalvin Phillips replacement or adapt tactics if there's no suitable alternative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So he wouldn't be getting criticism for bad management if he didn't manage badly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He would but he's opened himself up to more criticism by doing things like the above.
If Foden for example was playing in the middle or on the right and not performing you can say that's down to Foden just having a poor tournament, but by playing him on the left it becomes a Southgate issue because we now don't know if it's just because he's playing out of position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing wrong with him playing Foden at LW when he has Saka and Palmer as options for the right. Technically adept players will adapt. Iniesta and David Silva who are central playmakers used to play on the wings for Spain, and Spain won Euro 2012 with Fabregas as a false 9. England has a lot of depth in the wide positions, so no matter who Southgate plays or drops there, there'll always be fans second-guessing his decision.
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 4 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spain had a ridiculous plethora of talent - they won’t produce another side that good in a 100 years - I mean between 08-12 their CB options were Pique, Ramos, Puyol, with Carvajal and Alba at FB. Then Midfield was Senna, Alonso, Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta. Then up top Torres, Fabregas and Villa. They literally had no weakness.
Yeah, the obvious flaw in that argument is that the Spain system was built from the ground up to use those players' skills in effective areas despite starting in unorthodox positions. Like Alba overlapping to account for Iniesta drifting centrally, having Pedro and/or Villa running in behind when Fabregas dropped deep, etc
Whereas England have Trippier (no pace or left foot) offering nothing on the overlap, and Bellingham drifting left and tripping over Foden when he moves inside - and there are no runners in behind full stop since Kane can't do that any more and the attacking midfielders all want ball to feet.
Foden/Bellingham/Saka could work together, but the system simply doesn't work for that setup without a proper attacking full back on the left. Tbh it would equally work better if Saka and Foden just switched flanks
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
Uefa is investigating England midfielder Jude Bellingham for a gesture he made following his late equaliser against Slovakia in the Euro 2024 last-16 tie on Sunday.
European football's governing body says it is looking into a "potential violation" regarding "the basic rules of decent conduct" by Bellingham.
Bellingham was seen making a crotch-grabbing gesture towards the Slovakian bench after scoring an overhead kick in stoppage time.
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 40 minutes ago
Wrote this on another thread but it's relevant to much that has been expressed here. Southgate is just inept and is lucky to have good players who have a moment in matches that swings them our way.
Southgate seems to stagger his way through matches. But you really must question his ability as a coach and tactically.
For a start, taking just one left back, who was injured and hasn't played for 5 months. WTF??? Mitchell or Chilwell had to go, just to give balance and width and players who run beyond and not have to turn in and slow play down always. With our defensive frailties, even Colwill would have been a better option, he's left footed and although doesn't excel at wing back, would do a hell of a lot more than our other options. He also covers central defence.
Then, the midfield conundrum. He waits until the Euros before he tries to find a partner for Rice. Mainoo did okay last night, at least he was positive in looking to go forward always. But this should have been sorted months back.
Not taking Grealish. He's not one of my favourite players but we are always being told abouot players who offer something different. Well, when we're 1-0 up or 0-1 down, Grealish can actually dribble the ball, change the pace of the game and most importantly draw free kicks.
His reluctance to drop Saka for Palmer. Palmer is a more positive player who wants to get involved in the game, If we are dominating and attacking well, Saka is a danger, but we look better when Palmer comes on because he finds positions to pick up the ball and his intention is always forward. We lack players who want to grab the initiative and Palmer is one.
Bringing Eze on in front of Gordon, who will stay wide and actually run at the full back. It makes no sense. Continuing with Foden and Bellingham taking space away from each other.
In short, balance won´t come just from changing Rice's midfield partner. Mistakes were made even before we got the the Euros in terms of personnel and bigger errors are being commited with team selections during the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What compounds the annoyance of Southgate sitting on his hands and no making timely, effective substitutions is that he's still scrabbling around trying to find a mix that see us play good, attacking and controlling football.
We've gone in under prepared, with some combinations having never been given game time together, not knowing who is best along side Rice, whether a 3 of Rice, Bells & Foden could work, taking Shaw with us at the expense of someone who could have made a difference. Wharton has 30 minutes international experience in a key CM role
Jeez, if Henderson & Phillips had shown even any sort of form this season you know they would have been in that squad.
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 30 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the difference is that Silva and Iniesta were levels above Foden as footballers.
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 30 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the difference is that Silva and Iniesta were levels above Foden as footballers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even with all the talent they had. Spain were a difficult watch - especially in 2010, defensive possession was a snooze fest. The final was awful, the Dutch resorting to thuggery - terrible final.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Mbappe has 1, Lukaku 0, Ronaldo 0 - doesn’t mean they aren’t great players.
England held their own at the back.
Everyone raved about Portugal and their side - they conceded to Czechia and twice to Georgia - people still cream over that back line though.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 40 minutes ago
Wrote this on another thread but it's relevant to much that has been expressed here. Southgate is just inept and is lucky to have good players who have a moment in matches that swings them our way.
Southgate seems to stagger his way through matches. But you really must question his ability as a coach and tactically.
For a start, taking just one left back, who was injured and hasn't played for 5 months. WTF??? Mitchell or Chilwell had to go, just to give balance and width and players who run beyond and not have to turn in and slow play down always. With our defensive frailties, even Colwill would have been a better option, he's left footed and although doesn't excel at wing back, would do a hell of a lot more than our other options. He also covers central defence.
Then, the midfield conundrum. He waits until the Euros before he tries to find a partner for Rice. Mainoo did okay last night, at least he was positive in looking to go forward always. But this should have been sorted months back.
Not taking Grealish. He's not one of my favourite players but we are always being told abouot players who offer something different. Well, when we're 1-0 up or 0-1 down, Grealish can actually dribble the ball, change the pace of the game and most importantly draw free kicks.
His reluctance to drop Saka for Palmer. Palmer is a more positive player who wants to get involved in the game, If we are dominating and attacking well, Saka is a danger, but we look better when Palmer comes on because he finds positions to pick up the ball and his intention is always forward. We lack players who want to grab the initiative and Palmer is one.
Bringing Eze on in front of Gordon, who will stay wide and actually run at the full back. It makes no sense. Continuing with Foden and Bellingham taking space away from each other.
In short, balance won´t come just from changing Rice's midfield partner. Mistakes were made even before we got the the Euros in terms of personnel and bigger errors are being commited with team selections during the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What compounds the annoyance of Southgate sitting on his hands and no making timely, effective substitutions is that he's still scrabbling around trying to find a mix that see us play good, attacking and controlling football.
We've gone in under prepared, with some combinations having never been given game time together, not knowing who is best along side Rice, whether a 3 of Rice, Bells & Foden could work, taking Shaw with us at the expense of someone who could have made a difference. Wharton has 30 minutes international experience in a key CM role
Jeez, if Henderson & Phillips had shown even any sort of form this season you know they would have been in that squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And despite all that the nation will be glued to their TV screens come 5pm Saturday.
He hasn’t got everything wrong
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Mbappe has 1, Lukaku 0, Ronaldo 0 - doesn’t mean they aren’t great players.
England held their own at the back.
Everyone raved about Portugal and their side - they conceded to Czechia and twice to Georgia - people still cream over that back line though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one creams over a back line with Pepe (41, yes, forty-one) in it. And after they won their first 2 they had the luxury of resting a job lot of players, which is exactly what they did.
Meanwhile England are wasting energy playing ET, flogging largely the same XI players each time
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 30 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the difference is that Silva and Iniesta were levels above Foden as footballers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even with all the talent they had. Spain were a difficult watch - especially in 2010, defensive possession was a snooze fest. The final was awful, the Dutch resorting to thuggery - terrible final.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah they were much more entertaining under Aragones.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Mbappe has 1, Lukaku 0, Ronaldo 0 - doesn’t mean they aren’t great players.
England held their own at the back.
Everyone raved about Portugal and their side - they conceded to Czechia and twice to Georgia - people still cream over that back line though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one creams over a back line with Pepe (41, yes, forty-one) in it. And after they won their first 2 they had the luxury of resting a job lot of players, which is exactly what they did.
Meanwhile England are wasting energy playing ET, flogging largely the same XI players each time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we should rotate and lose like the Portuguese did?
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 37 minutes ago
Yeah, the obvious flaw in that argument is that the Spain system was built from the ground up to use those players' skills in effective areas despite starting in unorthodox positions. Like Alba overlapping to account for Iniesta drifting centrally, having Pedro and/or Villa running in behind when Fabregas dropped deep, etc
Whereas England have Trippier (no pace or left foot) offering nothing on the overlap, and Bellingham drifting left and tripping over Foden when he moves inside - and there are no runners in behind full stop since Kane can't do that any more and the attacking midfielders all want ball to feet.
Foden/Bellingham/Saka could work together, but the system simply doesn't work for that setup without a proper attacking full back on the left. Tbh it would equally work better if Saka and Foden just switched flanks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think it would work better if they switched flanks too. I still don’t think it would be great though until he sorts out the midfield and Bellinghams position. We’ve had the same issue in every game where it’s leading to the midfield either being overran when we don’t have the ball or unable to pass the ball forward when we do as there’s too much of a gap.
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 40 minutes ago
Wrote this on another thread but it's relevant to much that has been expressed here. Southgate is just inept and is lucky to have good players who have a moment in matches that swings them our way.
Southgate seems to stagger his way through matches. But you really must question his ability as a coach and tactically.
For a start, taking just one left back, who was injured and hasn't played for 5 months. WTF??? Mitchell or Chilwell had to go, just to give balance and width and players who run beyond and not have to turn in and slow play down always. With our defensive frailties, even Colwill would have been a better option, he's left footed and although doesn't excel at wing back, would do a hell of a lot more than our other options. He also covers central defence.
Then, the midfield conundrum. He waits until the Euros before he tries to find a partner for Rice. Mainoo did okay last night, at least he was positive in looking to go forward always. But this should have been sorted months back.
Not taking Grealish. He's not one of my favourite players but we are always being told abouot players who offer something different. Well, when we're 1-0 up or 0-1 down, Grealish can actually dribble the ball, change the pace of the game and most importantly draw free kicks.
His reluctance to drop Saka for Palmer. Palmer is a more positive player who wants to get involved in the game, If we are dominating and attacking well, Saka is a danger, but we look better when Palmer comes on because he finds positions to pick up the ball and his intention is always forward. We lack players who want to grab the initiative and Palmer is one.
Bringing Eze on in front of Gordon, who will stay wide and actually run at the full back. It makes no sense. Continuing with Foden and Bellingham taking space away from each other.
In short, balance won´t come just from changing Rice's midfield partner. Mistakes were made even before we got the the Euros in terms of personnel and bigger errors are being commited with team selections during the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What compounds the annoyance of Southgate sitting on his hands and no making timely, effective substitutions is that he's still scrabbling around trying to find a mix that see us play good, attacking and controlling football.
We've gone in under prepared, with some combinations having never been given game time together, not knowing who is best along side Rice, whether a 3 of Rice, Bells & Foden could work, taking Shaw with us at the expense of someone who could have made a difference. Wharton has 30 minutes international experience in a key CM role
Jeez, if Henderson & Phillips had shown even any sort of form this season you know they would have been in that squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And despite all that the nation will be glued to their TV screens come 5pm Saturday.
He hasn’t got everything wrong
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one is saying he's got everything wrong.
What he has done is made us very defensive and scared to take a risk.
It reminds me of Conte's Spurs. General levels of unhappiness simmering in the background as we ground our way to results with negative defensive football and players paralysed by fear of making a mistake.
We could play the same XI in the same formation but under instructions to up the tempo, to put the ball at risk to play with quick thought and action, front foot
with real purpose and energy...but we don't and that is the problem most people have.
Every team we have played against has been inferior to us in terms of the quality but superior in terms of desire, determination and energy.
I was surprised than Foden played anyway after missing a couple of days for the birth of his baby. Surely that period would be an important time for preparation, plus the travelling back and forth?
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Mbappe has 1, Lukaku 0, Ronaldo 0 - doesn’t mean they aren’t great players.
England held their own at the back.
Everyone raved about Portugal and their side - they conceded to Czechia and twice to Georgia - people still cream over that back line though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one creams over a back line with Pepe (41, yes, forty-one) in it. And after they won their first 2 they had the luxury of resting a job lot of players, which is exactly what they did.
Meanwhile England are wasting energy playing ET, flogging largely the same XI players each time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we should rotate and lose like the Portuguese did?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Portugal had topped their group. They werent hanging on and hoping the other group game ended a certain way in order for them to top their group. They had taken care of business and the 3rd game was a chance to rest and rotate.
So yes, i would have rather we WW and L having given some players a bit of game time and others a bit of rest. We've had 4 games, all gone to the wire, one requiring ET...talk about "managing tournament football" , scrapping through 4 games is far from the best way to go about it.
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 30 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the difference is that Silva and Iniesta were levels above Foden as footballers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah I was gonna mention that too, almost like it's not a good comparison or something
Sign in if you want to comment
Is there a jammier manager than Southgate?
Page 5 of 6
6
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
I think a lot of the criticism wouldn't be there had he planned a lot better given the number of square pegs in round holes.
- Picking one natural left back who at best will be fit for 3 games.
- Foden has spent the past 18 months exclusively playing RW or in midfield for England but he then puts him LW when the tournament starts.
- He's had basically 2 years to find a Kalvin Phillips replacement or adapt tactics if there's no suitable alternative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So he wouldn't be getting criticism for bad management if he didn't manage badly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He would but he's opened himself up to more criticism by doing things like the above.
If Foden for example was playing in the middle or on the right and not performing you can say that's down to Foden just having a poor tournament, but by playing him on the left it becomes a Southgate issue because we now don't know if it's just because he's playing out of position.
posted on 1/7/24
"And the goal comes from all of the defence being drawn to the left to compensate for a perceived weakness."
Disagree with that, the goal came because of a calamity of errors from a few players.
Rice was 10 yards too high up the pitch then doesn't follow his runner. Stones doesn't read the header so Guehi goes for it, then we have two centre halves within 6 yards of each other and two attackers in behind them. Walker makes the right decision to cover the right flank but Stones also moves his body that way leaving them to put a simple pass through.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 38 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 5 minutes ago
I heard a stat that Southgate's England has played a top 10 ranked team 24 times in his 100 games and won 4 of them..
What makes me chuckle is that for all England's careful possession and tippy tappy ball retention based tactics and setup, its a long throw and 2nd phase from a corner which got us through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The long ball thing was ridiculous. We've got all these quality attacking players and Southgate wants us to be Stoke City under Pulis.
I wish the FA had the balls to do what's right before it's too late.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What sack him on the eve of a quarter final with Switzerland - yer faaaacking mental if you think that’s happening.
He will be here for the duration of our tournament - however long that may be, get over it.
The worst his record will read now is:
Semi final
Final
Quarter final
Quarter final
Statistically he is Englands second greatest tournament manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes sack him. It's only going one way. You can see the players are being held back by negative tactics. He's a nice guy and might get on with the players, who want to protect him, but the set up and coaching is not good enough. As the saying goes, nice guys finish last. You actually need to take risks if you want to be truly successful.
I'd get in touch with Redknapp to see if he would be willing to take over for the remainder of the Euros.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then you are delusional
Faaaacking Redknapp who’s legendary level of tactics amount to “run around a bit”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Redknapp who has won things, got into a top 4 twice with Spurs, got 5th with West Ham.
Who has been a better English manager in the PL era?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why hasn’t Redknapp worked for years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Happy with retirement I assume, I don't know. Who has been a better English manager than him in the last 30 years? Has Redknapp not been as good as Southgate then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has had virtually no competition in the time period - Potter, Dyche, Curbs.
It’s not exactly a great yard stick is it
You could argue Eddie Howe has done more with less. You could mention Redknapp got Southampton relegated and Pompey went financially tiiits up after he left having spent quite a bit.
But yes, Redknapp was a good manager a decade ago - the blokes not managed for years - you are clearly mental if you think he is the answer for England now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if he is the answer but I'd have more faith in that than carrying on with this same riskless manager who persists with not changing what doesn't work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn’t work but we’re in the Quarter final whilst Italy and Croatia are at home and 2 of France, Spain, Germany, Portugal cannot progress further than us. After we’re won our group - which France and Belgium didn’t.
We are unbeaten - Portugal aren’t
But clearly nothing is working
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They've played better teams or had less luck than we have. You cannot convince me we haven't progressed via luck. Absolutely got away with it last night.
I don't really care what other teams are doing, teams by the way who have won things, where we haven't.
Pretty sure you were hyping our defensive record in this tournament the other day too, when we looked particularly shaky at times yesterday. Hardly any of our defenders had a good game. Be interesting to see how it holds up against Switzerland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We had statistically the second best defence in the group stage - I stated that, it isn’t hype, it’s a fact.
At the same time I have been slaughtering the use of Trippier at LB - it’s ridiculous, but Southgate painted himself into a corner by A) picking an unfit Luke Shaw B) picking Wharton over a left back
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Best defence in the group stages means very little though. There'd be what, only 1 or 2 goals in it between us and other teams? We still haven't played anyone of note either. It's just not a stat even worth bringing up to try and justify England doing well in this tournament so far.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn’t use it for that purpose, I was asked what the positives were for England at the end of the group stage - and used that fact. We never really looked like conceding in the group stage whereas yesterday we were woeful and Slovakia had they kept attacking us would have almost certainly scored again
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our defence was solid in the group almost by default. Weak teams in the group and a couple of those (Slovenia mostly) were just happy to put players behind the ball and get a point out of us by making it difficult for us to penetrate them.
If it looks solid against the better teams then it may be worth mentioning.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We were up against 3 of the hottest strikers in Europe - Vlahovic, Rasmus and Sesko - about £250m between them.
If I or you had just dismissed them pre tournament we would have been called arrogant, etc. But now England have neutralised them the narrative changes to how they aren’t that good and those sides aren’t that good blah blah.
It’s boring, we were defensively strong in the group but were poor yesterday - and Slovakia didn’t have an attacker of the level of the other 3 sides, so it was even more frustrating as we were essentially undone by their speed out wide and Walker not holding his position properly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guehi's yellow yesterday was the fault of a hospital pass from Trippier. And the goal comes from all of the defence being drawn to the left to compensate for a perceived weakness. In fact, Walker had an awful game last night, but if you look carefully, the position of the whole defence was skewed a little to the left so Walker had too much space to cover and was being passed both inside and down the line. That's highlighted more by not having an established midfield partnership to help out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good analysis, I had missed that. I don’t think it’s a perceived weakness down the left - Trippier is awful in that position - if Ndoye drift to the right on Saturday then we’re in a world of trouble.
We need Shaw back
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 40 minutes ago
Wrote this on another thread but it's relevant to much that has been expressed here. Southgate is just inept and is lucky to have good players who have a moment in matches that swings them our way.
Southgate seems to stagger his way through matches. But you really must question his ability as a coach and tactically.
For a start, taking just one left back, who was injured and hasn't played for 5 months. WTF??? Mitchell or Chilwell had to go, just to give balance and width and players who run beyond and not have to turn in and slow play down always. With our defensive frailties, even Colwill would have been a better option, he's left footed and although doesn't excel at wing back, would do a hell of a lot more than our other options. He also covers central defence.
Then, the midfield conundrum. He waits until the Euros before he tries to find a partner for Rice. Mainoo did okay last night, at least he was positive in looking to go forward always. But this should have been sorted months back.
Not taking Grealish. He's not one of my favourite players but we are always being told abouot players who offer something different. Well, when we're 1-0 up or 0-1 down, Grealish can actually dribble the ball, change the pace of the game and most importantly draw free kicks.
His reluctance to drop Saka for Palmer. Palmer is a more positive player who wants to get involved in the game, If we are dominating and attacking well, Saka is a danger, but we look better when Palmer comes on because he finds positions to pick up the ball and his intention is always forward. We lack players who want to grab the initiative and Palmer is one.
Bringing Eze on in front of Gordon, who will stay wide and actually run at the full back. It makes no sense. Continuing with Foden and Bellingham taking space away from each other.
In short, balance won´t come just from changing Rice's midfield partner. Mistakes were made even before we got the the Euros in terms of personnel and bigger errors are being commited with team selections during the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post
posted on 1/7/24
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
posted on 1/7/24
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
I think a lot of the criticism wouldn't be there had he planned a lot better given the number of square pegs in round holes.
- Picking one natural left back who at best will be fit for 3 games.
- Foden has spent the past 18 months exclusively playing RW or in midfield for England but he then puts him LW when the tournament starts.
- He's had basically 2 years to find a Kalvin Phillips replacement or adapt tactics if there's no suitable alternative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So he wouldn't be getting criticism for bad management if he didn't manage badly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He would but he's opened himself up to more criticism by doing things like the above.
If Foden for example was playing in the middle or on the right and not performing you can say that's down to Foden just having a poor tournament, but by playing him on the left it becomes a Southgate issue because we now don't know if it's just because he's playing out of position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was joking mate I agree, the balance is off and it's obvious why.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 13 minutes ago
I think a lot of the criticism wouldn't be there had he planned a lot better given the number of square pegs in round holes.
- Picking one natural left back who at best will be fit for 3 games.
- Foden has spent the past 18 months exclusively playing RW or in midfield for England but he then puts him LW when the tournament starts.
- He's had basically 2 years to find a Kalvin Phillips replacement or adapt tactics if there's no suitable alternative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So he wouldn't be getting criticism for bad management if he didn't manage badly?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He would but he's opened himself up to more criticism by doing things like the above.
If Foden for example was playing in the middle or on the right and not performing you can say that's down to Foden just having a poor tournament, but by playing him on the left it becomes a Southgate issue because we now don't know if it's just because he's playing out of position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing wrong with him playing Foden at LW when he has Saka and Palmer as options for the right. Technically adept players will adapt. Iniesta and David Silva who are central playmakers used to play on the wings for Spain, and Spain won Euro 2012 with Fabregas as a false 9. England has a lot of depth in the wide positions, so no matter who Southgate plays or drops there, there'll always be fans second-guessing his decision.
posted on 1/7/24
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 4 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spain had a ridiculous plethora of talent - they won’t produce another side that good in a 100 years - I mean between 08-12 their CB options were Pique, Ramos, Puyol, with Carvajal and Alba at FB. Then Midfield was Senna, Alonso, Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta. Then up top Torres, Fabregas and Villa. They literally had no weakness.
posted on 1/7/24
Yeah, the obvious flaw in that argument is that the Spain system was built from the ground up to use those players' skills in effective areas despite starting in unorthodox positions. Like Alba overlapping to account for Iniesta drifting centrally, having Pedro and/or Villa running in behind when Fabregas dropped deep, etc
Whereas England have Trippier (no pace or left foot) offering nothing on the overlap, and Bellingham drifting left and tripping over Foden when he moves inside - and there are no runners in behind full stop since Kane can't do that any more and the attacking midfielders all want ball to feet.
Foden/Bellingham/Saka could work together, but the system simply doesn't work for that setup without a proper attacking full back on the left. Tbh it would equally work better if Saka and Foden just switched flanks
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
posted on 1/7/24
Uefa is investigating England midfielder Jude Bellingham for a gesture he made following his late equaliser against Slovakia in the Euro 2024 last-16 tie on Sunday.
European football's governing body says it is looking into a "potential violation" regarding "the basic rules of decent conduct" by Bellingham.
Bellingham was seen making a crotch-grabbing gesture towards the Slovakian bench after scoring an overhead kick in stoppage time.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 40 minutes ago
Wrote this on another thread but it's relevant to much that has been expressed here. Southgate is just inept and is lucky to have good players who have a moment in matches that swings them our way.
Southgate seems to stagger his way through matches. But you really must question his ability as a coach and tactically.
For a start, taking just one left back, who was injured and hasn't played for 5 months. WTF??? Mitchell or Chilwell had to go, just to give balance and width and players who run beyond and not have to turn in and slow play down always. With our defensive frailties, even Colwill would have been a better option, he's left footed and although doesn't excel at wing back, would do a hell of a lot more than our other options. He also covers central defence.
Then, the midfield conundrum. He waits until the Euros before he tries to find a partner for Rice. Mainoo did okay last night, at least he was positive in looking to go forward always. But this should have been sorted months back.
Not taking Grealish. He's not one of my favourite players but we are always being told abouot players who offer something different. Well, when we're 1-0 up or 0-1 down, Grealish can actually dribble the ball, change the pace of the game and most importantly draw free kicks.
His reluctance to drop Saka for Palmer. Palmer is a more positive player who wants to get involved in the game, If we are dominating and attacking well, Saka is a danger, but we look better when Palmer comes on because he finds positions to pick up the ball and his intention is always forward. We lack players who want to grab the initiative and Palmer is one.
Bringing Eze on in front of Gordon, who will stay wide and actually run at the full back. It makes no sense. Continuing with Foden and Bellingham taking space away from each other.
In short, balance won´t come just from changing Rice's midfield partner. Mistakes were made even before we got the the Euros in terms of personnel and bigger errors are being commited with team selections during the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What compounds the annoyance of Southgate sitting on his hands and no making timely, effective substitutions is that he's still scrabbling around trying to find a mix that see us play good, attacking and controlling football.
We've gone in under prepared, with some combinations having never been given game time together, not knowing who is best along side Rice, whether a 3 of Rice, Bells & Foden could work, taking Shaw with us at the expense of someone who could have made a difference. Wharton has 30 minutes international experience in a key CM role
Jeez, if Henderson & Phillips had shown even any sort of form this season you know they would have been in that squad.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 30 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the difference is that Silva and Iniesta were levels above Foden as footballers.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 30 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the difference is that Silva and Iniesta were levels above Foden as footballers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even with all the talent they had. Spain were a difficult watch - especially in 2010, defensive possession was a snooze fest. The final was awful, the Dutch resorting to thuggery - terrible final.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Mbappe has 1, Lukaku 0, Ronaldo 0 - doesn’t mean they aren’t great players.
England held their own at the back.
Everyone raved about Portugal and their side - they conceded to Czechia and twice to Georgia - people still cream over that back line though.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 40 minutes ago
Wrote this on another thread but it's relevant to much that has been expressed here. Southgate is just inept and is lucky to have good players who have a moment in matches that swings them our way.
Southgate seems to stagger his way through matches. But you really must question his ability as a coach and tactically.
For a start, taking just one left back, who was injured and hasn't played for 5 months. WTF??? Mitchell or Chilwell had to go, just to give balance and width and players who run beyond and not have to turn in and slow play down always. With our defensive frailties, even Colwill would have been a better option, he's left footed and although doesn't excel at wing back, would do a hell of a lot more than our other options. He also covers central defence.
Then, the midfield conundrum. He waits until the Euros before he tries to find a partner for Rice. Mainoo did okay last night, at least he was positive in looking to go forward always. But this should have been sorted months back.
Not taking Grealish. He's not one of my favourite players but we are always being told abouot players who offer something different. Well, when we're 1-0 up or 0-1 down, Grealish can actually dribble the ball, change the pace of the game and most importantly draw free kicks.
His reluctance to drop Saka for Palmer. Palmer is a more positive player who wants to get involved in the game, If we are dominating and attacking well, Saka is a danger, but we look better when Palmer comes on because he finds positions to pick up the ball and his intention is always forward. We lack players who want to grab the initiative and Palmer is one.
Bringing Eze on in front of Gordon, who will stay wide and actually run at the full back. It makes no sense. Continuing with Foden and Bellingham taking space away from each other.
In short, balance won´t come just from changing Rice's midfield partner. Mistakes were made even before we got the the Euros in terms of personnel and bigger errors are being commited with team selections during the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What compounds the annoyance of Southgate sitting on his hands and no making timely, effective substitutions is that he's still scrabbling around trying to find a mix that see us play good, attacking and controlling football.
We've gone in under prepared, with some combinations having never been given game time together, not knowing who is best along side Rice, whether a 3 of Rice, Bells & Foden could work, taking Shaw with us at the expense of someone who could have made a difference. Wharton has 30 minutes international experience in a key CM role
Jeez, if Henderson & Phillips had shown even any sort of form this season you know they would have been in that squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And despite all that the nation will be glued to their TV screens come 5pm Saturday.
He hasn’t got everything wrong
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
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And Mbappe has 1, Lukaku 0, Ronaldo 0 - doesn’t mean they aren’t great players.
England held their own at the back.
Everyone raved about Portugal and their side - they conceded to Czechia and twice to Georgia - people still cream over that back line though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one creams over a back line with Pepe (41, yes, forty-one) in it. And after they won their first 2 they had the luxury of resting a job lot of players, which is exactly what they did.
Meanwhile England are wasting energy playing ET, flogging largely the same XI players each time
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s nearly slaaaags (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 30 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
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I’d say the difference is that Silva and Iniesta were levels above Foden as footballers.
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Even with all the talent they had. Spain were a difficult watch - especially in 2010, defensive possession was a snooze fest. The final was awful, the Dutch resorting to thuggery - terrible final.
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Yeah they were much more entertaining under Aragones.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Mbappe has 1, Lukaku 0, Ronaldo 0 - doesn’t mean they aren’t great players.
England held their own at the back.
Everyone raved about Portugal and their side - they conceded to Czechia and twice to Georgia - people still cream over that back line though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one creams over a back line with Pepe (41, yes, forty-one) in it. And after they won their first 2 they had the luxury of resting a job lot of players, which is exactly what they did.
Meanwhile England are wasting energy playing ET, flogging largely the same XI players each time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we should rotate and lose like the Portuguese did?
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 37 minutes ago
Yeah, the obvious flaw in that argument is that the Spain system was built from the ground up to use those players' skills in effective areas despite starting in unorthodox positions. Like Alba overlapping to account for Iniesta drifting centrally, having Pedro and/or Villa running in behind when Fabregas dropped deep, etc
Whereas England have Trippier (no pace or left foot) offering nothing on the overlap, and Bellingham drifting left and tripping over Foden when he moves inside - and there are no runners in behind full stop since Kane can't do that any more and the attacking midfielders all want ball to feet.
Foden/Bellingham/Saka could work together, but the system simply doesn't work for that setup without a proper attacking full back on the left. Tbh it would equally work better if Saka and Foden just switched flanks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think it would work better if they switched flanks too. I still don’t think it would be great though until he sorts out the midfield and Bellinghams position. We’ve had the same issue in every game where it’s leading to the midfield either being overran when we don’t have the ball or unable to pass the ball forward when we do as there’s too much of a gap.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Amanda Hugginkiss (U11574)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by Eric_Draven (U20260)
posted 40 minutes ago
Wrote this on another thread but it's relevant to much that has been expressed here. Southgate is just inept and is lucky to have good players who have a moment in matches that swings them our way.
Southgate seems to stagger his way through matches. But you really must question his ability as a coach and tactically.
For a start, taking just one left back, who was injured and hasn't played for 5 months. WTF??? Mitchell or Chilwell had to go, just to give balance and width and players who run beyond and not have to turn in and slow play down always. With our defensive frailties, even Colwill would have been a better option, he's left footed and although doesn't excel at wing back, would do a hell of a lot more than our other options. He also covers central defence.
Then, the midfield conundrum. He waits until the Euros before he tries to find a partner for Rice. Mainoo did okay last night, at least he was positive in looking to go forward always. But this should have been sorted months back.
Not taking Grealish. He's not one of my favourite players but we are always being told abouot players who offer something different. Well, when we're 1-0 up or 0-1 down, Grealish can actually dribble the ball, change the pace of the game and most importantly draw free kicks.
His reluctance to drop Saka for Palmer. Palmer is a more positive player who wants to get involved in the game, If we are dominating and attacking well, Saka is a danger, but we look better when Palmer comes on because he finds positions to pick up the ball and his intention is always forward. We lack players who want to grab the initiative and Palmer is one.
Bringing Eze on in front of Gordon, who will stay wide and actually run at the full back. It makes no sense. Continuing with Foden and Bellingham taking space away from each other.
In short, balance won´t come just from changing Rice's midfield partner. Mistakes were made even before we got the the Euros in terms of personnel and bigger errors are being commited with team selections during the competition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What compounds the annoyance of Southgate sitting on his hands and no making timely, effective substitutions is that he's still scrabbling around trying to find a mix that see us play good, attacking and controlling football.
We've gone in under prepared, with some combinations having never been given game time together, not knowing who is best along side Rice, whether a 3 of Rice, Bells & Foden could work, taking Shaw with us at the expense of someone who could have made a difference. Wharton has 30 minutes international experience in a key CM role
Jeez, if Henderson & Phillips had shown even any sort of form this season you know they would have been in that squad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And despite all that the nation will be glued to their TV screens come 5pm Saturday.
He hasn’t got everything wrong
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one is saying he's got everything wrong.
What he has done is made us very defensive and scared to take a risk.
It reminds me of Conte's Spurs. General levels of unhappiness simmering in the background as we ground our way to results with negative defensive football and players paralysed by fear of making a mistake.
We could play the same XI in the same formation but under instructions to up the tempo, to put the ball at risk to play with quick thought and action, front foot
with real purpose and energy...but we don't and that is the problem most people have.
Every team we have played against has been inferior to us in terms of the quality but superior in terms of desire, determination and energy.
posted on 1/7/24
I was surprised than Foden played anyway after missing a couple of days for the birth of his baby. Surely that period would be an important time for preparation, plus the travelling back and forth?
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - confident for Southgate’s ... (U18109)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 8 minutes ago
To those still backing Southgate - do you think two shots on target against Slovakia is acceptable?
Technically we've created the fewest chances of any team left in the tournament. For all the supposed defensive solidity (which I think is way overblown - we've played four blunt teams who can't really create much themselves anyway) it's really not working because we're not creating enough to win games.
We are not in the quarters because we've deserved it. We've got here through blind luck.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We are here because we’ve scored 4 and conceded 2. Furthermore, aside from the goals Pickford barely had a save to make.
We were poor defensively yesterday but in the group we kept all of Rasmus, Eriksen, Vlahovic, Mitrovic and Sesko quiet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be Rasmus (zero goals) Vlahovic (zero goals) Mitrovic (zero goals) Sesko (zero goals) Eriksen (1 goal).
Yes, England have done amazingly well to keep that prolific lot out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Mbappe has 1, Lukaku 0, Ronaldo 0 - doesn’t mean they aren’t great players.
England held their own at the back.
Everyone raved about Portugal and their side - they conceded to Czechia and twice to Georgia - people still cream over that back line though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No one creams over a back line with Pepe (41, yes, forty-one) in it. And after they won their first 2 they had the luxury of resting a job lot of players, which is exactly what they did.
Meanwhile England are wasting energy playing ET, flogging largely the same XI players each time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we should rotate and lose like the Portuguese did?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Portugal had topped their group. They werent hanging on and hoping the other group game ended a certain way in order for them to top their group. They had taken care of business and the 3rd game was a chance to rest and rotate.
So yes, i would have rather we WW and L having given some players a bit of game time and others a bit of rest. We've had 4 games, all gone to the wire, one requiring ET...talk about "managing tournament football" , scrapping through 4 games is far from the best way to go about it.
posted on 1/7/24
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 30 minutes ago
difference is Spain had Jordi Alba overlapping on the left
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d say the difference is that Silva and Iniesta were levels above Foden as footballers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah I was gonna mention that too, almost like it's not a good comparison or something
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