comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 10 minutes ago
This feels like Brexit, one of those things where people don't even know what they're voting for they just want "out". No thought or research behind any decision made.
People took their vote away from the Tories and spread them across other parties, purely with the aim of getting the Tories out.
Now we have labour in charge, who pretty much won by default.
This country is in the bin.
++
I think manypeople have not only considererd their own situation and the Country's predicament over the last few years but lived it too. Which is why we have the results we have this morning. I think the fact that you think its been won by a landslide by Labour due to a technicality and that it puts the country on the rubbish tip says more about your own lack of understanding of how politics works in this country and also your own lack of understanding of the core issues and concerns of the vast majority of normal working people who have been moved enough to deliver this statement today. Britain clearly needed a change in direction and the people of Britain have spoken. The future for most people in the UK suddenly feels a lot brighter this morning.
Try and read more well written, authoritative books websites and newspapers.in the future to understand better what is happening in politics.
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 2 minutes ago
Have to agree with Ali. While some may have done tactical voting. More wanted to Tories out and to punish them. SNP and Labour in Wales also didn't do so well like the Tories.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We're a Tory free zone here in Wales and we managed to get more Plaid Cymru seats. The Reform vote number was worrying though even though they didn't get a seat. Hopefully they'll have fallen by the wayside by our elections here in 2026 as it's PR here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://x.com/sundersays/status/1797659934806728962
Where has Farage been elected?
The stupidity of some is unbound
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, people really are stupid.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted something about different systems of representation yesterday.
I don't think direct proportional representation is the ideal way to go, because it would entail local and regional issues and sentiment being neglected. Plaid Cymru, for example, would stand very little chance of fairly representing the voice of the Welsh people.
As for FPTP, alongside the obvious drawback of millions upon millions of votes getting binned, it does have the merit of making a single politician directly answerable to a constituency, which we don't get in Spain, for example. That said, perhaps it would require providing the individual constituencies with a degree of power to demand adequate and answerable representation from their MPs. No ideas, however, as to how that could be done without creating huge instability.
Germany has a system whereby half of MPs are voted in by the regions, and the other half by pooling the nationwide vote. (Roughly speaking, that is - I don't have the full details at hand.)
To me that feels like a sensible way of addressing it, in that -at least to an extent- it balances out regional and nationwide sentiment.
The UK could work a similar system with a proportion of MPs elected by somewhat larger constituencies on a FPTP basis, and the other part by nationwide pooling.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted something about different systems of representation yesterday.
I don't think direct proportional representation is the ideal way to go, because it would entail local and regional issues and sentiment being neglected. Plaid Cymru, for example, would stand very little chance of fairly representing the voice of the Welsh people.
As for FPTP, alongside the obvious drawback of millions upon millions of votes getting binned, it does have the merit of making a single politician directly answerable to a constituency, which we don't get in Spain, for example. That said, perhaps it would require providing the individual constituencies with a degree of power to demand adequate and answerable representation from their MPs. No ideas, however, as to how that could be done without creating huge instability.
Germany has a system whereby half of MPs are voted in by the regions, and the other half by pooling the nationwide vote. (Roughly speaking, that is - I don't have the full details at hand.)
To me that feels like a sensible way of addressing it, in that -at least to an extent- it balances out regional and nationwide sentiment.
The UK could work a similar system with a proportion of MPs elected by somewhat larger constituencies on a FPTP basis, and the other part by nationwide pooling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Germany is a Federal country.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted something about different systems of representation yesterday.
I don't think direct proportional representation is the ideal way to go, because it would entail local and regional issues and sentiment being neglected. Plaid Cymru, for example, would stand very little chance of fairly representing the voice of the Welsh people.
As for FPTP, alongside the obvious drawback of millions upon millions of votes getting binned, it does have the merit of making a single politician directly answerable to a constituency, which we don't get in Spain, for example. That said, perhaps it would require providing the individual constituencies with a degree of power to demand adequate and answerable representation from their MPs. No ideas, however, as to how that could be done without creating huge instability.
Germany has a system whereby half of MPs are voted in by the regions, and the other half by pooling the nationwide vote. (Roughly speaking, that is - I don't have the full details at hand.)
To me that feels like a sensible way of addressing it, in that -at least to an extent- it balances out regional and nationwide sentiment.
The UK could work a similar system with a proportion of MPs elected by somewhat larger constituencies on a FPTP basis, and the other part by nationwide pooling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think here in Wales we don't have specific PR. It seems to be more of a mix between FPTP and regional lists taken from the wider vote:
Changes brought about by the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act
On 8 May 2024, Members of the Senedd voted to:
increase the size of the Senedd to 96 Members.
change the electoral system to one fully based on the principle of proportional representation, with names of all candidates on the ballot paper. From the 2026 Senedd election, the D’Hondt formula will be used (this formula has been used to determine the Senedd’s regional list Members (Senedd reform: a glossary).
make 16 new Senedd constituencies, which will be created by pairing the 32 UK Parliamentary constituencies, in time for the 2026 Senedd election. There will be a full boundary review after the 2026 Senedd election
have 6 Members of the Senedd elected, from closed lists, in each of the 16 constituencies.
increase the limit on the number of Welsh Ministers who can be appointed from 12 to 17 (plus the First Minister and the Counsel General) with the ability to further increase the number to 18 or 19 with the Senedd’s approval.
give Members of the Senedd the flexibility to elect a second Deputy Presiding Officer.
make it law that all candidates for Senedd elections and Members of the Senedd are resident in Wales.
hold Senedd elections every 4 years from 2026 onwards.
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted something about different systems of representation yesterday.
I don't think direct proportional representation is the ideal way to go, because it would entail local and regional issues and sentiment being neglected. Plaid Cymru, for example, would stand very little chance of fairly representing the voice of the Welsh people.
As for FPTP, alongside the obvious drawback of millions upon millions of votes getting binned, it does have the merit of making a single politician directly answerable to a constituency, which we don't get in Spain, for example. That said, perhaps it would require providing the individual constituencies with a degree of power to demand adequate and answerable representation from their MPs. No ideas, however, as to how that could be done without creating huge instability.
Germany has a system whereby half of MPs are voted in by the regions, and the other half by pooling the nationwide vote. (Roughly speaking, that is - I don't have the full details at hand.)
To me that feels like a sensible way of addressing it, in that -at least to an extent- it balances out regional and nationwide sentiment.
The UK could work a similar system with a proportion of MPs elected by somewhat larger constituencies on a FPTP basis, and the other part by nationwide pooling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Germany is a Federal country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't predetermine the voting system though.
IOAG - this is how it is currently - https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/resources/resources-young-people/who-responsible/senedd-cymru/how-mss-are-elected
is sunak in the rain again?
@Diafol - without reading the entire link, at first glance it looks to me to be a more sensible system of representation.
Some will of course argue that outright PR is closer to the principle of 1 person 1 vote, and perhaps rightly so, but very few modern nations are a homogeneous monolith, and imo for a nation state to represent its people it needs to take into account the concerns of its constituent regions too.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read that it has won 14% of the votes. It could seriously challenge the Conservative party by the time the next election comes around.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
@Diafol - without reading the entire link, at first glance it looks to me to be a more sensible system of representation.
Some will of course argue that outright PR is closer to the principle of 1 person 1 vote, and perhaps rightly so, but very few modern nations are a homogeneous monolith, and imo for a nation state to represent its people it needs to take into account the concerns of its constituent regions too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but I suppose you'll never please all the people all of the time.
For some reason people in the UK have been conditioned into thinking coalitions are a bad thing. I think we need to change that mindset.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read that it has won 14% of the votes. It could seriously challenge the Conservative party by the time the next election comes around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's impossible to tell from here as so many things can happen before the next election and there are loads many variables involved that don't all depend on Reform themselves.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read that it has won 14% of the votes. It could seriously challenge the Conservative party by the time the next election comes around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’ll be interesting to watch that space. Combined, Conservatives and Reform got 5pp higher vote share than Labour. I imagine we will see defections as Reform continues to gain momentum.
What Starmer needs to do is ensure this is Reform's peak. I think it will be as I don't think Farage will be as effective now he's an MP. He'll be under scrutiny now and I think people will see through him.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’ll probably lose those seats between now and the next election due to scandal and Farage leaving.
Sunak has stepped down.
As we speak Farage is looking to defect to the Tories to become their leader...
good night for the greens, a lot of second place finishes to accompany those 4 seats, all their wins were pretty comfortable too
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 minutes ago
good night for the greens, a lot of second place finishes to accompany those 4 seats, all their wins were pretty comfortable too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially interesting given that they don't receive anywhere near the media coverage the Neofascists do.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 minutes ago
good night for the greens, a lot of second place finishes to accompany those 4 seats, all their wins were pretty comfortable too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially interesting given that they don't receive anywhere near the media coverage the Neofascists do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greens vote share is significantly lower than reform
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 minutes ago
good night for the greens, a lot of second place finishes to accompany those 4 seats, all their wins were pretty comfortable too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Especially interesting given that they don't receive anywhere near the media coverage the Neofascists do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greens vote share is significantly lower than reform
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume the Greens down South are a totally different animal to the party north of the border? The Scottish Greens are a bunch of Marxist nutjobs who’ve been a total disaster in coalition with the SNP.
Tbf once farage retires ... reform are finished. They haven't got another communicator to replace him
Robot Starmer
https://x.com/haveigotnews/status/1801248209014055044?t=fWDlEUG9zR5qPolfngorXg&s=19
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 36 minutes ago
Labour and Tory don't support PR (as far as I know) because quite simply, they don't want to share power. Time to grow up. Most other elections are based on a PR system, so consistency would be there.
It's not a 'sexy subject', but in many ways PR affects everything else, it gives a fairer result, and if done properly, would maybe give you the best ideas of all views, and rule out anything too extreme happening.
..............But that's dependent on having competent MPs / government, which is a whole other ball game............
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fully agree on the pre-eminent of PR. I suspect the pragmatist in Labour leadership aren't far-sighted enough to go for it but many Labour MPs do advocate electoral reform, and the membership has formally backed it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The definition of Christmas is up for discussion though. FPTP has delivered sustained periods of Tory rule based on minority support for the Tory party. It's very conceivable, and would only require small shifts in the political landscape, that it brings the right wing back to power in 2029.
To be clear, the reason to bring in electoral reform is that it is fairer and better for democracy. But if Labour strategists are looking at it purely from a pragmatic point of view, their chances of having long-term access to power (and also freeing themselves from having to pander to the Right) are boosted by proportional representation.
Sign in if you want to comment
Labour landslide
Page 5 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 5/7/24
comment by Ali - (U1192)
posted 10 minutes ago
This feels like Brexit, one of those things where people don't even know what they're voting for they just want "out". No thought or research behind any decision made.
People took their vote away from the Tories and spread them across other parties, purely with the aim of getting the Tories out.
Now we have labour in charge, who pretty much won by default.
This country is in the bin.
++
I think manypeople have not only considererd their own situation and the Country's predicament over the last few years but lived it too. Which is why we have the results we have this morning. I think the fact that you think its been won by a landslide by Labour due to a technicality and that it puts the country on the rubbish tip says more about your own lack of understanding of how politics works in this country and also your own lack of understanding of the core issues and concerns of the vast majority of normal working people who have been moved enough to deliver this statement today. Britain clearly needed a change in direction and the people of Britain have spoken. The future for most people in the UK suddenly feels a lot brighter this morning.
Try and read more well written, authoritative books websites and newspapers.in the future to understand better what is happening in politics.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
posted on 5/7/24
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by CurrentlyInPoland (U11181)
posted 2 minutes ago
Have to agree with Ali. While some may have done tactical voting. More wanted to Tories out and to punish them. SNP and Labour in Wales also didn't do so well like the Tories.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We're a Tory free zone here in Wales and we managed to get more Plaid Cymru seats. The Reform vote number was worrying though even though they didn't get a seat. Hopefully they'll have fallen by the wayside by our elections here in 2026 as it's PR here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://x.com/sundersays/status/1797659934806728962
Where has Farage been elected?
The stupidity of some is unbound
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, people really are stupid.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted something about different systems of representation yesterday.
I don't think direct proportional representation is the ideal way to go, because it would entail local and regional issues and sentiment being neglected. Plaid Cymru, for example, would stand very little chance of fairly representing the voice of the Welsh people.
As for FPTP, alongside the obvious drawback of millions upon millions of votes getting binned, it does have the merit of making a single politician directly answerable to a constituency, which we don't get in Spain, for example. That said, perhaps it would require providing the individual constituencies with a degree of power to demand adequate and answerable representation from their MPs. No ideas, however, as to how that could be done without creating huge instability.
Germany has a system whereby half of MPs are voted in by the regions, and the other half by pooling the nationwide vote. (Roughly speaking, that is - I don't have the full details at hand.)
To me that feels like a sensible way of addressing it, in that -at least to an extent- it balances out regional and nationwide sentiment.
The UK could work a similar system with a proportion of MPs elected by somewhat larger constituencies on a FPTP basis, and the other part by nationwide pooling.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted something about different systems of representation yesterday.
I don't think direct proportional representation is the ideal way to go, because it would entail local and regional issues and sentiment being neglected. Plaid Cymru, for example, would stand very little chance of fairly representing the voice of the Welsh people.
As for FPTP, alongside the obvious drawback of millions upon millions of votes getting binned, it does have the merit of making a single politician directly answerable to a constituency, which we don't get in Spain, for example. That said, perhaps it would require providing the individual constituencies with a degree of power to demand adequate and answerable representation from their MPs. No ideas, however, as to how that could be done without creating huge instability.
Germany has a system whereby half of MPs are voted in by the regions, and the other half by pooling the nationwide vote. (Roughly speaking, that is - I don't have the full details at hand.)
To me that feels like a sensible way of addressing it, in that -at least to an extent- it balances out regional and nationwide sentiment.
The UK could work a similar system with a proportion of MPs elected by somewhat larger constituencies on a FPTP basis, and the other part by nationwide pooling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Germany is a Federal country.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted something about different systems of representation yesterday.
I don't think direct proportional representation is the ideal way to go, because it would entail local and regional issues and sentiment being neglected. Plaid Cymru, for example, would stand very little chance of fairly representing the voice of the Welsh people.
As for FPTP, alongside the obvious drawback of millions upon millions of votes getting binned, it does have the merit of making a single politician directly answerable to a constituency, which we don't get in Spain, for example. That said, perhaps it would require providing the individual constituencies with a degree of power to demand adequate and answerable representation from their MPs. No ideas, however, as to how that could be done without creating huge instability.
Germany has a system whereby half of MPs are voted in by the regions, and the other half by pooling the nationwide vote. (Roughly speaking, that is - I don't have the full details at hand.)
To me that feels like a sensible way of addressing it, in that -at least to an extent- it balances out regional and nationwide sentiment.
The UK could work a similar system with a proportion of MPs elected by somewhat larger constituencies on a FPTP basis, and the other part by nationwide pooling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think here in Wales we don't have specific PR. It seems to be more of a mix between FPTP and regional lists taken from the wider vote:
Changes brought about by the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act
On 8 May 2024, Members of the Senedd voted to:
increase the size of the Senedd to 96 Members.
change the electoral system to one fully based on the principle of proportional representation, with names of all candidates on the ballot paper. From the 2026 Senedd election, the D’Hondt formula will be used (this formula has been used to determine the Senedd’s regional list Members (Senedd reform: a glossary).
make 16 new Senedd constituencies, which will be created by pairing the 32 UK Parliamentary constituencies, in time for the 2026 Senedd election. There will be a full boundary review after the 2026 Senedd election
have 6 Members of the Senedd elected, from closed lists, in each of the 16 constituencies.
increase the limit on the number of Welsh Ministers who can be appointed from 12 to 17 (plus the First Minister and the Counsel General) with the ability to further increase the number to 18 or 19 with the Senedd’s approval.
give Members of the Senedd the flexibility to elect a second Deputy Presiding Officer.
make it law that all candidates for Senedd elections and Members of the Senedd are resident in Wales.
hold Senedd elections every 4 years from 2026 onwards.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by RB&W - He kicked lumps out of them (U21434)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 (U2462)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A benefit of FPTP. I do suspect the votes would be different though if there was PR.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted something about different systems of representation yesterday.
I don't think direct proportional representation is the ideal way to go, because it would entail local and regional issues and sentiment being neglected. Plaid Cymru, for example, would stand very little chance of fairly representing the voice of the Welsh people.
As for FPTP, alongside the obvious drawback of millions upon millions of votes getting binned, it does have the merit of making a single politician directly answerable to a constituency, which we don't get in Spain, for example. That said, perhaps it would require providing the individual constituencies with a degree of power to demand adequate and answerable representation from their MPs. No ideas, however, as to how that could be done without creating huge instability.
Germany has a system whereby half of MPs are voted in by the regions, and the other half by pooling the nationwide vote. (Roughly speaking, that is - I don't have the full details at hand.)
To me that feels like a sensible way of addressing it, in that -at least to an extent- it balances out regional and nationwide sentiment.
The UK could work a similar system with a proportion of MPs elected by somewhat larger constituencies on a FPTP basis, and the other part by nationwide pooling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Germany is a Federal country.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That doesn't predetermine the voting system though.
posted on 5/7/24
IOAG - this is how it is currently - https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/resources/resources-young-people/who-responsible/senedd-cymru/how-mss-are-elected
posted on 5/7/24
is sunak in the rain again?
posted on 5/7/24
@Diafol - without reading the entire link, at first glance it looks to me to be a more sensible system of representation.
Some will of course argue that outright PR is closer to the principle of 1 person 1 vote, and perhaps rightly so, but very few modern nations are a homogeneous monolith, and imo for a nation state to represent its people it needs to take into account the concerns of its constituent regions too.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read that it has won 14% of the votes. It could seriously challenge the Conservative party by the time the next election comes around.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
@Diafol - without reading the entire link, at first glance it looks to me to be a more sensible system of representation.
Some will of course argue that outright PR is closer to the principle of 1 person 1 vote, and perhaps rightly so, but very few modern nations are a homogeneous monolith, and imo for a nation state to represent its people it needs to take into account the concerns of its constituent regions too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but I suppose you'll never please all the people all of the time.
For some reason people in the UK have been conditioned into thinking coalitions are a bad thing. I think we need to change that mindset.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read that it has won 14% of the votes. It could seriously challenge the Conservative party by the time the next election comes around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's impossible to tell from here as so many things can happen before the next election and there are loads many variables involved that don't all depend on Reform themselves.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Every cloud...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read that it has won 14% of the votes. It could seriously challenge the Conservative party by the time the next election comes around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’ll be interesting to watch that space. Combined, Conservatives and Reform got 5pp higher vote share than Labour. I imagine we will see defections as Reform continues to gain momentum.
posted on 5/7/24
What Starmer needs to do is ensure this is Reform's peak. I think it will be as I don't think Farage will be as effective now he's an MP. He'll be under scrutiny now and I think people will see through him.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Peks - Comanche Moon (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
Lib Dems got 3.5M votes & 71 seats
Reform got 4M votes & 4 seats
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Every cloud...
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They’ll probably lose those seats between now and the next election due to scandal and Farage leaving.
posted on 5/7/24
Sunak has stepped down.
As we speak Farage is looking to defect to the Tories to become their leader...
posted on 5/7/24
good night for the greens, a lot of second place finishes to accompany those 4 seats, all their wins were pretty comfortable too
posted on 5/7/24
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 minutes ago
good night for the greens, a lot of second place finishes to accompany those 4 seats, all their wins were pretty comfortable too
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Especially interesting given that they don't receive anywhere near the media coverage the Neofascists do.
posted on 5/7/24
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 minutes ago
good night for the greens, a lot of second place finishes to accompany those 4 seats, all their wins were pretty comfortable too
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Especially interesting given that they don't receive anywhere near the media coverage the Neofascists do.
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Greens vote share is significantly lower than reform
posted on 5/7/24
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 41 minutes ago
comment by Christopher (U20930)
posted 8 minutes ago
good night for the greens, a lot of second place finishes to accompany those 4 seats, all their wins were pretty comfortable too
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Especially interesting given that they don't receive anywhere near the media coverage the Neofascists do.
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Greens vote share is significantly lower than reform
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I assume the Greens down South are a totally different animal to the party north of the border? The Scottish Greens are a bunch of Marxist nutjobs who’ve been a total disaster in coalition with the SNP.
posted on 5/7/24
Tbf once farage retires ... reform are finished. They haven't got another communicator to replace him
posted on 5/7/24
Robot Starmer
https://x.com/haveigotnews/status/1801248209014055044?t=fWDlEUG9zR5qPolfngorXg&s=19
posted on 5/7/24
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 3 hours, 14 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 36 minutes ago
Labour and Tory don't support PR (as far as I know) because quite simply, they don't want to share power. Time to grow up. Most other elections are based on a PR system, so consistency would be there.
It's not a 'sexy subject', but in many ways PR affects everything else, it gives a fairer result, and if done properly, would maybe give you the best ideas of all views, and rule out anything too extreme happening.
..............But that's dependent on having competent MPs / government, which is a whole other ball game............
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Fully agree on the pre-eminent of PR. I suspect the pragmatist in Labour leadership aren't far-sighted enough to go for it but many Labour MPs do advocate electoral reform, and the membership has formally backed it.
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Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
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The definition of Christmas is up for discussion though. FPTP has delivered sustained periods of Tory rule based on minority support for the Tory party. It's very conceivable, and would only require small shifts in the political landscape, that it brings the right wing back to power in 2029.
To be clear, the reason to bring in electoral reform is that it is fairer and better for democracy. But if Labour strategists are looking at it purely from a pragmatic point of view, their chances of having long-term access to power (and also freeing themselves from having to pander to the Right) are boosted by proportional representation.
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