comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 13 minutes ago
They'll be kicking themselves for not accepting 45m + 5m add ons!
Just shows how right our team were to walk away from talks when Everton demanded more in the region of 70m+ !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you're all delighted with an 18 yo for £55m who you have never seen play
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn't anyone be happy signing a player with massive potential?
Also if we do pay all the add ons that means we've been very successful. Something people don't seem to understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Branthwaite would have been 15m more but homegrown more experienced with prem exp? Interesting i don't think thats too bad, but Utd finally acting like a club with backbone so fair play to them walking away if they didnt agree with the valuation.
Personally think ttheyre signing well, the striker will offer strength in depth and sumin diff, the cb is regarded as a huge talent and Ugarte if they get him will compliment Penandez and Mainoo very well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Their signings make sense from a 'future building' perspective but, a bit like Spurs who have brought in 2 quality 18 yo's, i don't see these solving any of their immediate issues. They need a few "oven ready" signings to strengthen all three areas of the team...as do Spurs.
Ugarte would be a great start and I was hopeful we'd look at him before he went to PSG, and hopefully we'd look at hi-jacking that deal, but i am not sure if we now see Gray as the CM we needed or if he is still one for the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This seems to be assuming we don't continue to buy though? If we buy De Ligt and Yoro, that's hardly just 'future building'.
It feels to me like we wanted two CBs. One a bit more experienced and a younger prospect that we can develop over a few years. Yoro is seemingly within the top few in the world in terms of potential at his age and position, so possibly a deal where you get it done even if you weren't desperate for it.
There are some signings that you just work with because the upside is too great to pass them up. I feel like Yoro fits into that band.
Yeah always a risk getting in someone that young from abroad and expecting them to start regularly but he's been a starter for Lille for over a year and is seen as an incredible talent (better than Branthwaite who's only had 1 season in the PL).
The big issue for me is that the club have been terrible at buying and developing players post Ferguson. Hopefully we've turned a corner in that respect though.
United need more oven ready signings than we could possibly afford to compete for a serious trophy next season. To me it seems very sensible to focus on acquiring players who will have capacity to grow into title-winning starters before they have oven-ready price tags.
I do think it's quite likely Yoro doesn't automatically start next season, so a more experienced player like De Ligt might still come in.
We still may buy a second CB like you say but the fact we went for Yoro first over de Ligt who by all accounts is waiting for us to make a bid would possibly suggest he's considered more important and thus more likely to start?
I think the club identified Yoro and Branthwaite which is why we bid for both while de Ligt is a signing based on the fact Bayern want to sell and he's getable for a reasonable fee rather than being a top target.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 seconds ago
United need more oven ready signings than we could possibly afford to compete for a serious trophy next season. To me it seems very sensible to focus on acquiring players who will have capacity to grow into title-winning starters before they have oven-ready price tags.
I do think it's quite likely Yoro doesn't automatically start next season, so a more experienced player like De Ligt might still come in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point, he'll probably be eased into CB but may play more at FB.
Btw hate that expression, brings back memories of Bozo Boris!
1982 I never know to what extent the order of signings tells us about the priority vs other considerations such as opportunism, selling club's timetables, etc. Presumably, it's a bit of both. I would imagine that buying a second CB may rest on how much certainty we have that we can shift either Maguire or (more likely) Lindelof.
he'll probably be eased into CB but may play more at FB
------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen any indication that he has played at FB or that this would be a good idea. From where I'm standing his skill set doesn't look particularly transferable to playing as a full back.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
he'll probably be eased into CB but may play more at FB
------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen any indication that he has played at FB or that this would be a good idea. From where I'm standing his skill set doesn't look particularly transferable to playing as a full back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn't be against playing a lopsided (or asymmetric as I'm sure you've called it in the past) back four where we have three CBs and one full back playing. For example Dalot, Yoro, New CB, Martinez or Yoro, New CB, Martinez, Shaw or similar. May help us build up etc. I'm not a tactical genius though so perhaps that thinking is flawed but I'm sure Pep has played a CB or two in the full back positions before.
Russian
But surely the idea that we have to sell before we can buy another CB would suggest that Yoro (or Branthwaite as we bid for him) was of great priority over de Ligt?
If we don't sell Lindelof or Slabhead then it's highly unlikely we get de Ligt and it isn't certain we can sell either one.
comment by Red Russian
posted 3 minutes ago
he'll probably be eased into CB but may play more at FB
------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen any indication that he has played at FB or that this would be a good idea. From where I'm standing his skill set doesn't look particularly transferable to playing as a full back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good on the ball, quick. May not have the qualities in attacking areas but nor does AWB!
Martinez has played emergency FB. If I recall so has Smalling once upon time when he was at Utd.
Not necessary the best FBs but maybe can do a job.
But I generally like the idea of easing him into the team rather than throwing him at the deep end. He's a long term investment, at 18 he'll make mistakes and every error will be scrutinised by people like Devonshirespur! If in the face of intense competition Yoro prevails then so be it, win-win for Utd.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 39 minutes ago
United need more oven ready signings than we could possibly afford to compete for a serious trophy next season. To me it seems very sensible to focus on acquiring players who will have capacity to grow into title-winning starters before they have oven-ready price tags.
I do think it's quite likely Yoro doesn't automatically start next season, so a more experienced player like De Ligt might still come in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’ll depend on cost, and if Everton can be haggled down. I think the club might actually prefer to sign Branthwaite over De Ligt due to the former being homegrown, and could potentially be someone to play on the left and the right.
It’s also worth considering that we may actually look to replace Martinez as a starter in the short term due to his lack of speed and height.
Let's put in a 40 mill offer and see what they want to do. We can move on either way
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 59 seconds ago
Let's put in a 40 mill offer and see what they want to do. We can move on either way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most recent offer was 45m plus 5m adds, surely it will be the same offer. On reflection, Everton were stupid to turn it down, probably thought the club sale was guaranteed and as a result Everton held on all the aces and didn't need to sell Branthwaite.
I wonder how far our new team go to lower the asking price or would they simply offer the same take it or leave deal?
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 21 minutes ago
Russian
But surely the idea that we have to sell before we can buy another CB would suggest that Yoro (or Branthwaite as we bid for him) was of great priority over de Ligt?
If we don't sell Lindelof or Slabhead then it's highly unlikely we get de Ligt and it isn't certain we can sell either one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not arguing that Yoro wasn't higher priority, just speculating that order of incomings doesn't absolutely correlate with hierarchy of importance. I'd imagine that sometimes there's a sense that you need to act fast to pull off a deal during a window of opportunity, e.g. with Yoro being sought after, while e.g. De Ligt looks like a simple deal to complete and (again, I speculate) there's a high degree of confidence that a deal will be done for Lindelof.
But back to your original point about Yoro being likely to start: I think he has been acquired as a building block of a future title challenging team, and it doesn't mean it's a bad investment if in the short term he's not quite ready. I've read / listened to three or four detailed assessments of his attributes, and common themes are 1) that he has an extremely high ceiling and is remarkably good for an 18 year-old, and 2) that there are various areas of his game that need to improve - some of his decision making (which seems to be a hangover from having such a physical and technical superiority at youth level that he could rely on his agility and pace to win duels), his defending against strikers receiving the ball back to goal, his physical strength. They all say his weaknesses are to be expected in a player of his age and he should have no trouble ironing them out in time, but they agree he'll have a steep learning curve against the superior attacking quality in the PL and tend to conclude that either we'll need to cut him a lot of slack for the mistakes he will inevitably make or we should expect him to be eased in with a more experienced defender playing a lot of minutes in his position.
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 39 minutes ago
United need more oven ready signings than we could possibly afford to compete for a serious trophy next season. To me it seems very sensible to focus on acquiring players who will have capacity to grow into title-winning starters before they have oven-ready price tags.
I do think it's quite likely Yoro doesn't automatically start next season, so a more experienced player like De Ligt might still come in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’ll depend on cost, and if Everton can be haggled down. I think the club might actually prefer to sign Branthwaite over De Ligt due to the former being homegrown, and could potentially be someone to play on the left and the right.
It’s also worth considering that we may actually look to replace Martinez as a starter in the short term due to his lack of speed and height.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, someone who can cover both sides would be ideal.
comment by Red Russian
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982
posted 21 minutes ago
Russian
But surely the idea that we have to sell before we can buy another CB would suggest that Yoro (or Branthwaite as we bid for him) was of great priority over de Ligt?
If we don't sell Lindelof or Slabhead then it's highly unlikely we get de Ligt and it isn't certain we can sell either one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not arguing that Yoro wasn't higher priority, just speculating that order of incomings doesn't absolutely correlate with hierarchy of importance. I'd imagine that sometimes there's a sense that you need to act fast to pull off a deal during a window of opportunity, e.g. with Yoro being sought after, while e.g. De Ligt looks like a simple deal to complete and (again, I speculate) there's a high degree of confidence that a deal will be done for Lindelof.
But back to your original point about Yoro being likely to start: I think he has been acquired as a building block of a future title challenging team, and it doesn't mean it's a bad investment if in the short term he's not quite ready. I've read / listened to three or four detailed assessments of his attributes, and common themes are 1) that he has an extremely high ceiling and is remarkably good for an 18 year-old, and 2) that there are various areas of his game that need to improve - some of his decision making (which seems to be a hangover from having such a physical and technical superiority at youth level that he could rely on his agility and pace to win duels), his defending against strikers receiving the ball back to goal, his physical strength. They all say his weaknesses are to be expected in a player of his age and he should have no trouble ironing them out in time, but they agree he'll have a steep learning curve against the superior attacking quality in the PL and tend to conclude that either we'll need to cut him a lot of slack for the mistakes he will inevitably make or we should expect him to be eased in with a more experienced defender playing a lot of minutes in his position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Look at Saliba now compared to when Arsenal first purchased him. He had to go out on loan to regain confidence and form, he's now a Rolls Royce of a defender. During all that while his club didn't lose faith when most of the fanbase wanted him sold. I have no doubt similar murmurings will surface amongst our own fanbase, I just hope he hits the ground running quickly to avoid the obvious negativity. Negativity for a young player at a club like Utd is very different from Arsenal no doubt. But it looks like Yoro has the mental strength to succeed.
I'm quite convinced we do need another CB. Yoro is obviously very, very young. I'd hope and expect the plan is for him to be in rotation rather than expected to start week in, week out at 18.
The question then comes down to De Ligt versus Branthwaite it would seem. The fall through of the Everton sale would suggest their appetite for selling should increase and the transfer fee isn't going to be what they were originally holding out for, which we might be able to exploit.
De Ligt is more experienced and superior on the ball, probably slightly cheaper in terms of the transfer fee but higher in wages and has a mark against him due to injuries. He's known as a big character and leader despite his age and he's got a goal in him from set-pieces as well. He's also worked with ETH before, so will be familiar with his methods and demands. More "ready-made" (or "oven-ready", if we prefer) despite only being 24 years old and given we're likely losing/already lost some experience from the squad (Varane, maybe Casemiro, maybe Lindelof & Maguire), he could help fill some of that void.
Branthwaite is faster and like De Ligt, fantastic in the duel. He's left footed as well which provides a more natural balance to the defensive options given that right & left footed CB partnerships are somewhat in vogue. He isn't as cute on the ball with his passing, though his passing stats were better at PSV than Everton (that may be accounted for via stylistic differences, or it could be that the lower quality of the Dutch league better facilitated superior passing stats). Higher fee but lower wages and no known injury issues to date. Worked with Ruud at PSV also. Has shown that he's already a very good PL-level defender with lots of room to improve further.
Personally I'd be happy with either player though Branthwaite probably offers a little more versatility in terms of maybe being able to play at LB on occasion and he's played both L&RCB at PSV and Everton. Always nice to have talented British & Irish players in the squad as well.
In an ideal scenario we ease Yoro into the first team and let him acclimatise to a new league and country while he’s still a teenager. Sadly we lack depth or quality in defence and he might need to play more than we’d like.
Just look at Mainoo and Garnacho, neither should have been played as much as they were last season but we sadly had little choice.
Knowing us we get de Ligt and he’s out injured most of the season and Yoro has to play.
Look at Saliba now compared to when Arsenal first purchased him. He had to go out on loan to regain confidence and form, he's now a Rolls Royce of a defender
*************************
Saliba seems a good example but we forget he was good enough before he was sent off and Arteta was soundly criticized considering the options they had.
Yoro ging on loan would be a waste, especially when he'll come in and be one of the better defenders immediately. What we need to worry about is the manager knows how to rotate them well (I cannot trust ETH) but surely he Yoro should be playing.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
Just look at Mainoo and Garnacho, neither should have been played as much as they were last season but we sadly had little choice.
----------------------------------------------
And Rasmus, too. We saw how effective Rasmus could be coming on later in games from the bench with more space to operate in and using his pace and power up against tired legs.
Obviously we now have Zirkzee to rotate in that CF position, but I think the wide attacking areas need to be addressed at some point soon (probably not possible this summer).
Who was criticising Arteta for loaning out Saliba? It was an example of a loan working perfectly for everyone involved.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 15 minutes ago
Who was criticising Arteta for loaning out Saliba? It was an example of a loan working perfectly for everyone involved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal fans
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 16 minutes ago
Who was criticising Arteta for loaning out Saliba? It was an example of a loan working perfectly for everyone involved.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loads of Arsenal fans.
Always nice to have talented British & Irish players in the squad as well.
-------------------------------------------------
Alright, Lee Anderson!
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson... (U12026)
posted 30 minutes ago
Look at Saliba now compared to when Arsenal first purchased him. He had to go out on loan to regain confidence and form, he's now a Rolls Royce of a defender
*************************
Saliba seems a good example but we forget he was good enough before he was sent off and Arteta was soundly criticized considering the options they had.
Yoro ging on loan would be a waste, especially when he'll come in and be one of the better defenders immediately. What we need to worry about is the manager knows how to rotate them well (I cannot trust ETH) but surely he Yoro should be playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Better squad depth should give ETH plenty of options. One thing for sure we need to utilise the squad better.
Sign in if you want to comment
Everton sale off!
Page 2 of 3
posted on 19/7/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 32 minutes ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Vengeance (U23079)
posted 13 minutes ago
They'll be kicking themselves for not accepting 45m + 5m add ons!
Just shows how right our team were to walk away from talks when Everton demanded more in the region of 70m+ !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But you're all delighted with an 18 yo for £55m who you have never seen play
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn't anyone be happy signing a player with massive potential?
Also if we do pay all the add ons that means we've been very successful. Something people don't seem to understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Branthwaite would have been 15m more but homegrown more experienced with prem exp? Interesting i don't think thats too bad, but Utd finally acting like a club with backbone so fair play to them walking away if they didnt agree with the valuation.
Personally think ttheyre signing well, the striker will offer strength in depth and sumin diff, the cb is regarded as a huge talent and Ugarte if they get him will compliment Penandez and Mainoo very well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Their signings make sense from a 'future building' perspective but, a bit like Spurs who have brought in 2 quality 18 yo's, i don't see these solving any of their immediate issues. They need a few "oven ready" signings to strengthen all three areas of the team...as do Spurs.
Ugarte would be a great start and I was hopeful we'd look at him before he went to PSG, and hopefully we'd look at hi-jacking that deal, but i am not sure if we now see Gray as the CM we needed or if he is still one for the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This seems to be assuming we don't continue to buy though? If we buy De Ligt and Yoro, that's hardly just 'future building'.
It feels to me like we wanted two CBs. One a bit more experienced and a younger prospect that we can develop over a few years. Yoro is seemingly within the top few in the world in terms of potential at his age and position, so possibly a deal where you get it done even if you weren't desperate for it.
There are some signings that you just work with because the upside is too great to pass them up. I feel like Yoro fits into that band.
posted on 19/7/24
Yeah always a risk getting in someone that young from abroad and expecting them to start regularly but he's been a starter for Lille for over a year and is seen as an incredible talent (better than Branthwaite who's only had 1 season in the PL).
The big issue for me is that the club have been terrible at buying and developing players post Ferguson. Hopefully we've turned a corner in that respect though.
posted on 19/7/24
United need more oven ready signings than we could possibly afford to compete for a serious trophy next season. To me it seems very sensible to focus on acquiring players who will have capacity to grow into title-winning starters before they have oven-ready price tags.
I do think it's quite likely Yoro doesn't automatically start next season, so a more experienced player like De Ligt might still come in.
posted on 19/7/24
We still may buy a second CB like you say but the fact we went for Yoro first over de Ligt who by all accounts is waiting for us to make a bid would possibly suggest he's considered more important and thus more likely to start?
I think the club identified Yoro and Branthwaite which is why we bid for both while de Ligt is a signing based on the fact Bayern want to sell and he's getable for a reasonable fee rather than being a top target.
posted on 19/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 seconds ago
United need more oven ready signings than we could possibly afford to compete for a serious trophy next season. To me it seems very sensible to focus on acquiring players who will have capacity to grow into title-winning starters before they have oven-ready price tags.
I do think it's quite likely Yoro doesn't automatically start next season, so a more experienced player like De Ligt might still come in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point, he'll probably be eased into CB but may play more at FB.
Btw hate that expression, brings back memories of Bozo Boris!
posted on 19/7/24
1982 I never know to what extent the order of signings tells us about the priority vs other considerations such as opportunism, selling club's timetables, etc. Presumably, it's a bit of both. I would imagine that buying a second CB may rest on how much certainty we have that we can shift either Maguire or (more likely) Lindelof.
posted on 19/7/24
he'll probably be eased into CB but may play more at FB
------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen any indication that he has played at FB or that this would be a good idea. From where I'm standing his skill set doesn't look particularly transferable to playing as a full back.
posted on 19/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 6 minutes ago
he'll probably be eased into CB but may play more at FB
------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen any indication that he has played at FB or that this would be a good idea. From where I'm standing his skill set doesn't look particularly transferable to playing as a full back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn't be against playing a lopsided (or asymmetric as I'm sure you've called it in the past) back four where we have three CBs and one full back playing. For example Dalot, Yoro, New CB, Martinez or Yoro, New CB, Martinez, Shaw or similar. May help us build up etc. I'm not a tactical genius though so perhaps that thinking is flawed but I'm sure Pep has played a CB or two in the full back positions before.
posted on 19/7/24
Russian
But surely the idea that we have to sell before we can buy another CB would suggest that Yoro (or Branthwaite as we bid for him) was of great priority over de Ligt?
If we don't sell Lindelof or Slabhead then it's highly unlikely we get de Ligt and it isn't certain we can sell either one.
posted on 19/7/24
comment by Red Russian
posted 3 minutes ago
he'll probably be eased into CB but may play more at FB
------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen any indication that he has played at FB or that this would be a good idea. From where I'm standing his skill set doesn't look particularly transferable to playing as a full back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good on the ball, quick. May not have the qualities in attacking areas but nor does AWB!
Martinez has played emergency FB. If I recall so has Smalling once upon time when he was at Utd.
Not necessary the best FBs but maybe can do a job.
But I generally like the idea of easing him into the team rather than throwing him at the deep end. He's a long term investment, at 18 he'll make mistakes and every error will be scrutinised by people like Devonshirespur! If in the face of intense competition Yoro prevails then so be it, win-win for Utd.
posted on 19/7/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 39 minutes ago
United need more oven ready signings than we could possibly afford to compete for a serious trophy next season. To me it seems very sensible to focus on acquiring players who will have capacity to grow into title-winning starters before they have oven-ready price tags.
I do think it's quite likely Yoro doesn't automatically start next season, so a more experienced player like De Ligt might still come in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’ll depend on cost, and if Everton can be haggled down. I think the club might actually prefer to sign Branthwaite over De Ligt due to the former being homegrown, and could potentially be someone to play on the left and the right.
It’s also worth considering that we may actually look to replace Martinez as a starter in the short term due to his lack of speed and height.
posted on 19/7/24
Let's put in a 40 mill offer and see what they want to do. We can move on either way
posted on 19/7/24
comment by Onana what's my name? (U14210)
posted 59 seconds ago
Let's put in a 40 mill offer and see what they want to do. We can move on either way
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most recent offer was 45m plus 5m adds, surely it will be the same offer. On reflection, Everton were stupid to turn it down, probably thought the club sale was guaranteed and as a result Everton held on all the aces and didn't need to sell Branthwaite.
I wonder how far our new team go to lower the asking price or would they simply offer the same take it or leave deal?
posted on 19/7/24
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 21 minutes ago
Russian
But surely the idea that we have to sell before we can buy another CB would suggest that Yoro (or Branthwaite as we bid for him) was of great priority over de Ligt?
If we don't sell Lindelof or Slabhead then it's highly unlikely we get de Ligt and it isn't certain we can sell either one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not arguing that Yoro wasn't higher priority, just speculating that order of incomings doesn't absolutely correlate with hierarchy of importance. I'd imagine that sometimes there's a sense that you need to act fast to pull off a deal during a window of opportunity, e.g. with Yoro being sought after, while e.g. De Ligt looks like a simple deal to complete and (again, I speculate) there's a high degree of confidence that a deal will be done for Lindelof.
But back to your original point about Yoro being likely to start: I think he has been acquired as a building block of a future title challenging team, and it doesn't mean it's a bad investment if in the short term he's not quite ready. I've read / listened to three or four detailed assessments of his attributes, and common themes are 1) that he has an extremely high ceiling and is remarkably good for an 18 year-old, and 2) that there are various areas of his game that need to improve - some of his decision making (which seems to be a hangover from having such a physical and technical superiority at youth level that he could rely on his agility and pace to win duels), his defending against strikers receiving the ball back to goal, his physical strength. They all say his weaknesses are to be expected in a player of his age and he should have no trouble ironing them out in time, but they agree he'll have a steep learning curve against the superior attacking quality in the PL and tend to conclude that either we'll need to cut him a lot of slack for the mistakes he will inevitably make or we should expect him to be eased in with a more experienced defender playing a lot of minutes in his position.
posted on 19/7/24
comment by Darren The String Fletcher (U10026)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 39 minutes ago
United need more oven ready signings than we could possibly afford to compete for a serious trophy next season. To me it seems very sensible to focus on acquiring players who will have capacity to grow into title-winning starters before they have oven-ready price tags.
I do think it's quite likely Yoro doesn't automatically start next season, so a more experienced player like De Ligt might still come in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it’ll depend on cost, and if Everton can be haggled down. I think the club might actually prefer to sign Branthwaite over De Ligt due to the former being homegrown, and could potentially be someone to play on the left and the right.
It’s also worth considering that we may actually look to replace Martinez as a starter in the short term due to his lack of speed and height.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, someone who can cover both sides would be ideal.
posted on 19/7/24
comment by Red Russian
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by manutd1982
posted 21 minutes ago
Russian
But surely the idea that we have to sell before we can buy another CB would suggest that Yoro (or Branthwaite as we bid for him) was of great priority over de Ligt?
If we don't sell Lindelof or Slabhead then it's highly unlikely we get de Ligt and it isn't certain we can sell either one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not arguing that Yoro wasn't higher priority, just speculating that order of incomings doesn't absolutely correlate with hierarchy of importance. I'd imagine that sometimes there's a sense that you need to act fast to pull off a deal during a window of opportunity, e.g. with Yoro being sought after, while e.g. De Ligt looks like a simple deal to complete and (again, I speculate) there's a high degree of confidence that a deal will be done for Lindelof.
But back to your original point about Yoro being likely to start: I think he has been acquired as a building block of a future title challenging team, and it doesn't mean it's a bad investment if in the short term he's not quite ready. I've read / listened to three or four detailed assessments of his attributes, and common themes are 1) that he has an extremely high ceiling and is remarkably good for an 18 year-old, and 2) that there are various areas of his game that need to improve - some of his decision making (which seems to be a hangover from having such a physical and technical superiority at youth level that he could rely on his agility and pace to win duels), his defending against strikers receiving the ball back to goal, his physical strength. They all say his weaknesses are to be expected in a player of his age and he should have no trouble ironing them out in time, but they agree he'll have a steep learning curve against the superior attacking quality in the PL and tend to conclude that either we'll need to cut him a lot of slack for the mistakes he will inevitably make or we should expect him to be eased in with a more experienced defender playing a lot of minutes in his position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Look at Saliba now compared to when Arsenal first purchased him. He had to go out on loan to regain confidence and form, he's now a Rolls Royce of a defender. During all that while his club didn't lose faith when most of the fanbase wanted him sold. I have no doubt similar murmurings will surface amongst our own fanbase, I just hope he hits the ground running quickly to avoid the obvious negativity. Negativity for a young player at a club like Utd is very different from Arsenal no doubt. But it looks like Yoro has the mental strength to succeed.
posted on 19/7/24
I'm quite convinced we do need another CB. Yoro is obviously very, very young. I'd hope and expect the plan is for him to be in rotation rather than expected to start week in, week out at 18.
The question then comes down to De Ligt versus Branthwaite it would seem. The fall through of the Everton sale would suggest their appetite for selling should increase and the transfer fee isn't going to be what they were originally holding out for, which we might be able to exploit.
De Ligt is more experienced and superior on the ball, probably slightly cheaper in terms of the transfer fee but higher in wages and has a mark against him due to injuries. He's known as a big character and leader despite his age and he's got a goal in him from set-pieces as well. He's also worked with ETH before, so will be familiar with his methods and demands. More "ready-made" (or "oven-ready", if we prefer) despite only being 24 years old and given we're likely losing/already lost some experience from the squad (Varane, maybe Casemiro, maybe Lindelof & Maguire), he could help fill some of that void.
Branthwaite is faster and like De Ligt, fantastic in the duel. He's left footed as well which provides a more natural balance to the defensive options given that right & left footed CB partnerships are somewhat in vogue. He isn't as cute on the ball with his passing, though his passing stats were better at PSV than Everton (that may be accounted for via stylistic differences, or it could be that the lower quality of the Dutch league better facilitated superior passing stats). Higher fee but lower wages and no known injury issues to date. Worked with Ruud at PSV also. Has shown that he's already a very good PL-level defender with lots of room to improve further.
Personally I'd be happy with either player though Branthwaite probably offers a little more versatility in terms of maybe being able to play at LB on occasion and he's played both L&RCB at PSV and Everton. Always nice to have talented British & Irish players in the squad as well.
posted on 19/7/24
In an ideal scenario we ease Yoro into the first team and let him acclimatise to a new league and country while he’s still a teenager. Sadly we lack depth or quality in defence and he might need to play more than we’d like.
Just look at Mainoo and Garnacho, neither should have been played as much as they were last season but we sadly had little choice.
Knowing us we get de Ligt and he’s out injured most of the season and Yoro has to play.
posted on 19/7/24
Look at Saliba now compared to when Arsenal first purchased him. He had to go out on loan to regain confidence and form, he's now a Rolls Royce of a defender
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Saliba seems a good example but we forget he was good enough before he was sent off and Arteta was soundly criticized considering the options they had.
Yoro ging on loan would be a waste, especially when he'll come in and be one of the better defenders immediately. What we need to worry about is the manager knows how to rotate them well (I cannot trust ETH) but surely he Yoro should be playing.
posted on 19/7/24
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
Just look at Mainoo and Garnacho, neither should have been played as much as they were last season but we sadly had little choice.
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And Rasmus, too. We saw how effective Rasmus could be coming on later in games from the bench with more space to operate in and using his pace and power up against tired legs.
Obviously we now have Zirkzee to rotate in that CF position, but I think the wide attacking areas need to be addressed at some point soon (probably not possible this summer).
posted on 19/7/24
Who was criticising Arteta for loaning out Saliba? It was an example of a loan working perfectly for everyone involved.
posted on 19/7/24
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 15 minutes ago
Who was criticising Arteta for loaning out Saliba? It was an example of a loan working perfectly for everyone involved.
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Arsenal fans
posted on 19/7/24
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 16 minutes ago
Who was criticising Arteta for loaning out Saliba? It was an example of a loan working perfectly for everyone involved.
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Loads of Arsenal fans.
posted on 19/7/24
Always nice to have talented British & Irish players in the squad as well.
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Alright, Lee Anderson!
posted on 19/7/24
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson... (U12026)
posted 30 minutes ago
Look at Saliba now compared to when Arsenal first purchased him. He had to go out on loan to regain confidence and form, he's now a Rolls Royce of a defender
*************************
Saliba seems a good example but we forget he was good enough before he was sent off and Arteta was soundly criticized considering the options they had.
Yoro ging on loan would be a waste, especially when he'll come in and be one of the better defenders immediately. What we need to worry about is the manager knows how to rotate them well (I cannot trust ETH) but surely he Yoro should be playing.
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Better squad depth should give ETH plenty of options. One thing for sure we need to utilise the squad better.
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