Where do you sit with the owners now Dev? Do you think their priority is success on the field?

This deal smacks of maximising revenue from the GLC sale rather than upgrading anyone within our squad. We might end up signing him, but even then I'd have my doubts whether this will a footballing decision. Just as the Solomon deal was a money-grab, I think this one would be too. We'd likely only be signing to then sell on for profit. If we were that keen from a footballing perspective, we wouldn't have taken their second option of a percentage of any sale to another buying club.

How do you view the strategic lowering of wages to levels not seen since Spurs were at White Hart Lane, currently below Brighton's wage bill? I'm just curious to know where the line is for you between smart, sustainable financial decisions and a downright lack of ambition.

n a nutshell

If they make a profit on GLC we get a cut.

If they sell Cardoso (not to us) we get a cut.

If Cardoso comes good and we're interested, we get him cheap.

Levy's dna all over this deal.

Maybe smart business for this specific deal but overall there needs to be a big shift against support (or apathy) for ENIC to stay. That's the only way it will improve on the football pitch.

Seems to make a ton of business sense so fair play to the club for that. On the downside, no help to us in the here & now and is becoming a little symbolic of a club that's always focused on a bright future (lots of young players, loans with options etc) that never materializes.

Nothing to get excited or annoyed about in equal measure

I wonder if Levy, in a moment of quiet reflection, ever sits back and thinks to himself.... This business would be so easy and hassle free if it weren't for those pesky football matches ?

What happened to that special relationship you lot had with Real Madrid after Bale went there?

comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
What happened to that special relationship you lot had with Real Madrid after Bale went there?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
deal agreed to sign Vinicius Jnr in January

comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Fred: Sign Someone!!!! (U3979)
posted 14 minutes ago
What happened to that special relationship you lot had with Real Madrid after Bale went there?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
deal agreed to sign Vinicius Jnr in January
----------------------------------------------------------------------

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 9 minutes ago
Where do you sit with the owners now Dev? Do you think their priority is success on the field?

This deal smacks of maximising revenue from the GLC sale rather than upgrading anyone within our squad. We might end up signing him, but even then I'd have my doubts whether this will a footballing decision. Just as the Solomon deal was a money-grab, I think this one would be too. We'd likely only be signing to then sell on for profit. If we were that keen from a footballing perspective, we wouldn't have taken their second option of a percentage of any sale to another buying club.

How do you view the strategic lowering of wages to levels not seen since Spurs were at White Hart Lane, currently below Brighton's wage bill? I'm just curious to know where the line is for you between smart, sustainable financial decisions and a downright lack of ambition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Its a difficult one to explain, succinctly (which is never my forte anyway!)

I totally believe success on the field is the priority but not at any cost. With PSR being enforced now, no one can chase success at any cost.

I have read many giving the view that we are strategically lowering wages, may be with an eye on selling the club or part. I do not fully buy into that.

I see the impact on wages from our current buying to be more of a positive side effect rather than the driving force.

I do no think our decisions in the market have been driven by wages per se. There's no evidence to support that they are, expect may be if the likes of Toney are asking for, reportedly, £18m a year (£350k a week !!!) We're never doing that and nor should we.

In my opinion with our new off-pitch team in charge - Lange, Munn, Ange with Levy still at the top - the approach was always going to be targeting players for now and players for the future. You do not bring in this sort of expertise and then go out and buy oven-ready players who you or I could scout.

Whether we deem our buys to be ambitious enough or not really depends on our financial position, and we have no real idea of what that is.

We spent abut £130m. Did we have more to spend? Who knows. Few clubs spent more than us. We didnt have many assets to sell and had to write-off the expensive NDombele purchase.

Given where we were 1 year ago, given the ok progress we made under Ange and given our strong but not maximised financial position (no UCl, no Europe last season), i do not think we were in a position to spend enough money now to make us serious contenders.

Where we are not able to do so, we have chosen to make more stepped progression - spending big on Solanke for the first XI but then adding to the squad, with a lot of talented younger players.

Accepting that we are not going to go from 5th to 1st or 2nd, we have instead chosen the root of the tortoise, not the hare.

My feeling about this window is that I am comfortable with this approach and with the type of buys we have made, accepting that we probably didnt have £200m available to instantly project us to challenging at the top.

However, I am disappointed that we have left definitely 1, probably 2 and you could argue 3 positions poorly covered.

I am disappointed we did not show a bit more creativity in filling some or all those gaps, even if loans or short term experienced buys like we saw with Perisic for example.

If we had done that then we stood a better chance of improving more NOW.

Instead, what we have done improves us slightly now, and potentially significantly in the future.

But that future improvement depends on the youth we have bought fulfilling their potential. As we have seen in the passed (and why i dont blame fans for being tired of this approach) it doesnt always work - Bale Modric Alli Dier Modric Walker all wonderful examples of success but there re just as many who have disappointed.

So overall, I think our ambitions are large. I just see them as being a considered build up, like we saw with Poch in teh beginning, like you have seen with Arsenal, and not a Chelsea-esque £250m splurge hoping to hit the jackpot. Look what a mess they're now in. Look at how the Bale money and then Poch's 2019 big spending saw far from great results.

But we have failed to give proper squad cover to Ange, even if we couldn't afford big names we should have done something. It could be the difference between top 4 and not and whatever we have saved by doing nothing may cost us. That said, we have ben more active in January's in recent years and i think there is still a bit of money left over, so may be we get that cover for the 2nd half of the season.


I also think Spurs and a few other clubs are looking to rebuild on a post-Pep timeline (may be even a post-City 115 charges timeline) . It will take something massive to break City's dominance now, its hardly worth trying from where we are now, that may not be so in 2 years time and may be we're building on that sort of timeline.

Using Arsenal as a reference , the year we beat them to 4th, Arteta's 2nd season, they had just got rid of Aubameyang, still had Lacazette, with Holding filling in cost them the game with his red card and by generally being a shiiit player.

Even now they have just filled the LB position and have decent cover there, same in CM with Merino and a bit of loan cover for Saka with Sterling. They're now refining what they have and can still argue that they lack a proper striker

But they are a very strong outfit now but this has taken time to come to fruition. Getting players out. Letting younger players develop, being in a position to make big acquisitions.

This is what we will be trying to emulate IMO.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 9 minutes ago
Where do you sit with the owners now Dev? Do you think their priority is success on the field?

This deal smacks of maximising revenue from the GLC sale rather than upgrading anyone within our squad. We might end up signing him, but even then I'd have my doubts whether this will a footballing decision. Just as the Solomon deal was a money-grab, I think this one would be too. We'd likely only be signing to then sell on for profit. If we were that keen from a footballing perspective, we wouldn't have taken their second option of a percentage of any sale to another buying club.

How do you view the strategic lowering of wages to levels not seen since Spurs were at White Hart Lane, currently below Brighton's wage bill? I'm just curious to know where the line is for you between smart, sustainable financial decisions and a downright lack of ambition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Its a difficult one to explain, succinctly (which is never my forte anyway!)

I totally believe success on the field is the priority but not at any cost. With PSR being enforced now, no one can chase success at any cost.

I have read many giving the view that we are strategically lowering wages, may be with an eye on selling the club or part. I do not fully buy into that.

I see the impact on wages from our current buying to be more of a positive side effect rather than the driving force.

I do no think our decisions in the market have been driven by wages per se. There's no evidence to support that they are, expect may be if the likes of Toney are asking for, reportedly, £18m a year (£350k a week !!!) We're never doing that and nor should we.

In my opinion with our new off-pitch team in charge - Lange, Munn, Ange with Levy still at the top - the approach was always going to be targeting players for now and players for the future. You do not bring in this sort of expertise and then go out and buy oven-ready players who you or I could scout.

Whether we deem our buys to be ambitious enough or not really depends on our financial position, and we have no real idea of what that is.

We spent abut £130m. Did we have more to spend? Who knows. Few clubs spent more than us. We didnt have many assets to sell and had to write-off the expensive NDombele purchase.

Given where we were 1 year ago, given the ok progress we made under Ange and given our strong but not maximised financial position (no UCl, no Europe last season), i do not think we were in a position to spend enough money now to make us serious contenders.

Where we are not able to do so, we have chosen to make more stepped progression - spending big on Solanke for the first XI but then adding to the squad, with a lot of talented younger players.

Accepting that we are not going to go from 5th to 1st or 2nd, we have instead chosen the root of the tortoise, not the hare.

My feeling about this window is that I am comfortable with this approach and with the type of buys we have made, accepting that we probably didnt have £200m available to instantly project us to challenging at the top.

However, I am disappointed that we have left definitely 1, probably 2 and you could argue 3 positions poorly covered.

I am disappointed we did not show a bit more creativity in filling some or all those gaps, even if loans or short term experienced buys like we saw with Perisic for example.

If we had done that then we stood a better chance of improving more NOW.

Instead, what we have done improves us slightly now, and potentially significantly in the future.

But that future improvement depends on the youth we have bought fulfilling their potential. As we have seen in the passed (and why i dont blame fans for being tired of this approach) it doesnt always work - Bale Modric Alli Dier Modric Walker all wonderful examples of success but there re just as many who have disappointed.

So overall, I think our ambitions are large. I just see them as being a considered build up, like we saw with Poch in teh beginning, like you have seen with Arsenal, and not a Chelsea-esque £250m splurge hoping to hit the jackpot. Look what a mess they're now in. Look at how the Bale money and then Poch's 2019 big spending saw far from great results.

But we have failed to give proper squad cover to Ange, even if we couldn't afford big names we should have done something. It could be the difference between top 4 and not and whatever we have saved by doing nothing may cost us. That said, we have ben more active in January's in recent years and i think there is still a bit of money left over, so may be we get that cover for the 2nd half of the season.


I also think Spurs and a few other clubs are looking to rebuild on a post-Pep timeline (may be even a post-City 115 charges timeline) . It will take something massive to break City's dominance now, its hardly worth trying from where we are now, that may not be so in 2 years time and may be we're building on that sort of timeline.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats a very fair assessment

Dev,

As DiamondLights says, very fair assessment. You make a lot of good points and I'd be happier should your understanding of events be the closest to the truth. It's all about perceptions though. Are the signings of Gray and Bergvall driven by low cost and more specifically, low wages first and foremost? Or have the been signed because we have every faith they're going to have higher ceilings than those we could ordinarily afford? Both arguments could be made with credibility, which suggests both are likely true.

The issue I have is that they're relative unknowns. For every Dele Alli, there's a Sessegnon. For every Bale, there's a Clarke. Like I've said before, the risks we take are often on low cost teenagers rather than big money 'ready now' players. I appreciate we have Solanke on board so that contradicts my point a little, but I just wish we'd bought one more 'top player' like a Neto, rather than gambling on Odobert. Someone you categorically know is going to turn up and absolutely nail down a position. Part of the issue with this summer's recruitment is that aside from Solanke, I don't think we've signed one player you can say is any better than what we already had in our squad. In fact Ange's preferred 11 is largely the same, aside from Solanke's injury.

I said a long time ago, when the idea of following data-led recruitment was first mooted, that Levy would abuse it a little. That he might use it as a tool to justify buying cheap. A way out of spending big and we're seeing that play out, if only in part. Buying cheaper and younger allows him to trim the fat off the wage bill which is a huge win financially. I just don't believe that it's just a happy consequence of buying the players we still believe will bring us success. In other words, the priority is bringing down the wage bill and success on the pitch is secondary. You believe it's the other way around.

It worries me when I hear disparaging comments from the likes of Paul O'Keefe, who, with many contacts at the club, has a better idea of the intentions of the hierarchy than we do. He insists the wage bill cut is the pre-cursor to a more palatable investment. In fact he says it's going to get a lot worse. That doesn't sound like opinion to me. Any opinion he has is based on more informed sources than we have.

We'll see I guess and I really hope I'm proved wrong in this but, like many Spurs fans now, I've lost all faith that Levy is in this for success. He'd like it, as everyone would, but he won't dig deep financially to get there.

Regarding PSR, I've little faith it'll go anywhere. My feeling is that, ironically, the current rules are unsustainable so somewhere along the line, compromises will be agreed and the likes of City, Newcastle and Chelsea will end up with more flexibility to spend their own money. That will only hurt Spurs long time, unless we have an owner that shows the same ambition they do, albeit a bit gung-ho and messy, particularly in Chelsea's case.

I like this one. Should put a bit of pressure on Bissouma to perform consistently. Either way we're onto a winner

is he good defensively?

Top of the stats in La Liga apparently. Saw some YouTuber jizzing about him the other day

prob a spurs fan whos never seen him play

comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 31 minutes ago
I like this one. Should put a bit of pressure on Bissouma to perform consistently. Either way we're onto a winner
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Retweet but do we even need another CM?

I feel this spells the end of Devine. Could see us selling the likes of Donley and Devine like other clubs sell their youth players in a few years.

Devine is going to the Belgium league on loan unless the club are thinking of selling Biss and Bents, maybe Madders too next summer. Given their ages it's possible.

I have no idea. This is another opportunist signing like Gray, Bergvall, Soloman and BJ to name a few.

comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 11 minutes ago
prob a spurs fan whos never seen him play
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's that bird who's a United fan, I think. She was bigging Cardoso up as a hipster alternative to Ugarte

comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Phenom (U20037)
posted 11 minutes ago
prob a spurs fan whos never seen him play
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's that bird who's a United fan, I think. She was bigging Cardoso up as a hipster alternative to Ugarte
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The YB bird who has done 10 micky vids? She loves us more than the other clique on here

Dunno, she's a blond and seems proper into stats n that

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 38 minutes ago
Dev,

As DiamondLights says, very fair assessment. You make a lot of good points and I'd be happier should your understanding of events be the closest to the truth. It's all about perceptions though. Are the signings of Gray and Bergvall driven by low cost and more specifically, low wages first and foremost? Or have the been signed because we have every faith they're going to have higher ceilings than those we could ordinarily afford? Both arguments could be made with credibility, which suggests both are likely true.

The issue I have is that they're relative unknowns. For every Dele Alli, there's a Sessegnon. For every Bale, there's a Clarke. Like I've said before, the risks we take are often on low cost teenagers rather than big money 'ready now' players. I appreciate we have Solanke on board so that contradicts my point a little, but I just wish we'd bought one more 'top player' like a Neto, rather than gambling on Odobert. Someone you categorically know is going to turn up and absolutely nail down a position. Part of the issue with this summer's recruitment is that aside from Solanke, I don't think we've signed one player you can say is any better than what we already had in our squad. In fact Ange's preferred 11 is largely the same, aside from Solanke's injury.

I said a long time ago, when the idea of following data-led recruitment was first mooted, that Levy would abuse it a little. That he might use it as a tool to justify buying cheap. A way out of spending big and we're seeing that play out, if only in part. Buying cheaper and younger allows him to trim the fat off the wage bill which is a huge win financially. I just don't believe that it's just a happy consequence of buying the players we still believe will bring us success. In other words, the priority is bringing down the wage bill and success on the pitch is secondary. You believe it's the other way around.

It worries me when I hear disparaging comments from the likes of Paul O'Keefe, who, with many contacts at the club, has a better idea of the intentions of the hierarchy than we do. He insists the wage bill cut is the pre-cursor to a more palatable investment. In fact he says it's going to get a lot worse. That doesn't sound like opinion to me. Any opinion he has is based on more informed sources than we have.

We'll see I guess and I really hope I'm proved wrong in this but, like many Spurs fans now, I've lost all faith that Levy is in this for success. He'd like it, as everyone would, but he won't dig deep financially to get there.

Regarding PSR, I've little faith it'll go anywhere. My feeling is that, ironically, the current rules are unsustainable so somewhere along the line, compromises will be agreed and the likes of City, Newcastle and Chelsea will end up with more flexibility to spend their own money. That will only hurt Spurs long time, unless we have an owner that shows the same ambition they do, albeit a bit gung-ho and messy, particularly in Chelsea's case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Similarly, good points made by you

The reason why i do not think that our transfers are wage driven is because our wages are comfortably under control. We have one of the best wage to revenue ratios in the league, probably still the best.

Swiss Rambles review shows we're bottom (best) in the league on the 22/23 season (the latest financial figures) and since then we have lost the likes of Kane and Perisics big wages, as well as a few others - Lloris, Dier. Kane aside, we wanted those players gone. and we will be paying the likes of Maddison a decent wedge.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1bdznxz/the_swiss_ramble_premier_league_clubs/#lightbox

I am not sure you could point to a better CB that we could realistically attract than VDV. He happens to be young. He's happy, reportedly, to accept £50k a week.

Now i do not believe we targeted someone like that because he's cheap, more that we've gone for him because he's quality, with potential to improve and offers the skill set we need. The fact he's young and will accept lesser wages is also, no doubt, a factor, but not the driving factor.

If another player costs more and demands more wages, then the club have to assess whether that extra money is worth it, and I guess their data driven approach helps here.

Levy seems to take a long time to learn lessons and we have gone around the houses it would seem with managers, DOFs, transfer strategy.

What i think he is trying to emulate is when we did it well and that was with Poch. How the likes of cheap players like Walker, Dele, Dier were supplemented with good experienced buys like Toby and Wanyama etc and how all of them developed together.

And as said above, in an era where we will struggle to compete with City & Pep may be there is a focus on building up more slowly, with well scouted players who will be the mainstay of the club for 5+ years if they develop as expected. Throwing £200m at the team this summer would guarantee nothing. Even Arsenal cannot get the better of City and they've thrown a lot of money at it over multiple seasons.

SO i can understand the approach. That's not to say i wouldnt want us to buy a £50m - £60m player in every position we need to fill. Just realistically know we cannot.

comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dunno, she's a blond and seems proper into stats n that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would ya?

comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dunno, she's a blond and seems proper into stats n that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would ya?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd do any bird with a Spurs shirt on

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dunno, she's a blond and seems proper into stats n that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would ya?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd do any bird with a Spurs shirt on
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She usually wears a utd shirt 😂

comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Bãleș left boot (U22081)
posted 3 minutes ago
Dunno, she's a blond and seems proper into stats n that
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would ya?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd do any bird with a Spurs shirt on
----------------------------------------------------------------------
She usually wears a utd shirt 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Makes it more exciting tbf

Just to confirm

https://youtu.be/MHunIZZYq2I?si=i9A9sp_AzZ2nmm0o

This bird Bales?