At the end of the day, you need a bit of both. The eye test is definitely needed to validate what the stats are telling you, but it's being implied here we don't have anyone doing that, and I don't believe that can be true.

Also, that list is all well and good but what about all the crap ones he's recommended over the years? It's easy to look good in hindsight

I would agree that you need an element of both like Bales said, often just to determine the character of the player and see how they react to adversity or whatever.

The issue is that the data doesn't lie, whereas people doing the eye test can easily have blindspots or biases which means less room for old fashioned scouts, but the quality of those scouts in the top leagues probably has to be higher.

Pleat's statement when he resigned seemed to indicate that the game had moved on past him and that it was time for people more comfortable with data and advanced metrics to take over.
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This is exactly what Howard Webb and his PGMOL dinosaurs should say in their resignation letters. The game has passed them by and they don't want to accept data and tech like VAR. Disband the PGMOL and put to pasture anyone associated with them. Start afresh with a new approach and new people.

I'd like to know what kind of data thought Brennan Johnson is worth £45m.

In other news, Levy is refusing to sell Pleats autobiography in the club shop because it's a different publisher or something. A fine way to treat a man who has served Spurs for around 40 years.

Vintage Levy.

comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 33 minutes ago
I'd like to know what kind of data thought Brennan Johnson is worth £45m.

In other news, Levy is refusing to sell Pleats autobiography in the club shop because it's a different publisher or something. A fine way to treat a man who has served Spurs for around 40 years.

Vintage Levy.
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Think we can assume BJ was a panic buy. And I doubt much data was used to buy Gray or Solomon as they are opportunistic signings.

Solanke on the other hand, could be a data signing amoungst other factors. But we know Eze and Neto were first choice targets.

We are back to be the ultimate data team. So data obsessed that Salah and VVD won't get new contracts.

comment by (K̇ash) - Welcome to Mo Trafford - Free Palestine 🇵🇸 (U1108)
posted 47 minutes ago
We are back to be the ultimate data team. So data obsessed that Salah and VVD won't get new contracts.
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Data is just an efficient way of compiling a short list and, in theory, reducing the error margins of buying a donkey. It doesn't eliminate these because so many other environmental factors are at play.

Also, and this is an argument I had with my fvckwit HR over decades, the key thing is answering the question what is the opportunity we are looking to fill and what qualities does that role need and don't just give me a shortlist of scheite that YOU think is the profile YOU would like to see.

i'd have thought scouts would be glad to use such tools that give them vast amounts of information to do their job.

comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 9 minutes ago
i'd have thought scouts would be glad to use such tools that give them vast amounts of information to do their job.
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Remember football is a hugely insular industry with nepotism and favours rife as the way to do business particularly amongst those of an older generation.

comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by InBefore (U20589)
posted 9 minutes ago
i'd have thought scouts would be glad to use such tools that give them vast amounts of information to do their job.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember football is a hugely insular industry with nepotism and favours rife as the way to do business particularly amongst those of an older generation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to mention, that actual data scientists are faaaacking smart and highly sought after - there simply are not enough.

Which means you end up with some utter whoppers analysing data at times and completely misinterpreting it.

comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
I'd like to know what kind of data thought Brennan Johnson is worth £45m.

In other news, Levy is refusing to sell Pleats autobiography in the club shop because it's a different publisher or something. A fine way to treat a man who has served Spurs for around 40 years.

Vintage Levy.
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Brennan is a bench player, last 20-25 mins of games he scares the life out of sides and has scored some crucial late goals for us. He looks lost when he starts though.

Kulu, is the better of the 2 but he has a few absolute stinkers a season where you wonder if he has ever played the game before.

There’s a reason why the club were looking at Neto.

I like what I have seen of Odobert so far, so does Ange presumably as he keeps starting him

comment by (K̇ash) - Welcome to Mo Trafford - Free Palestine 🇵🇸 (U1108)
posted 3 hours, 1 minute ago
We are back to be the ultimate data team. So data obsessed that Salah and VVD won't get new contracts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think that's data, just your owners being penny pinchers

comment by Luka Bosh Brasi (U22178)
posted 3 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by ●Billy The Spur● LEVY OUT- ENIC OUT! (U3924)
posted 33 minutes ago
I'd like to know what kind of data thought Brennan Johnson is worth £45m.

In other news, Levy is refusing to sell Pleats autobiography in the club shop because it's a different publisher or something. A fine way to treat a man who has served Spurs for around 40 years.

Vintage Levy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think we can assume BJ was a panic buy. And I doubt much data was used to buy Gray or Solomon as they are opportunistic signings.

Solanke on the other hand, could be a data signing amoungst other factors. But we know Eze and Neto were first choice targets.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

BJ is a classic data buy.

The eye test tells you that Neto is a better player....but BJ's data tells you his output is better.

Like others, it is definitely a combination of everything - data, eye test, character. While the club may have flip flopped over the years with all sorts of systems, they will have learned from it. If we haven't learned that character is as important as ability after the Ndombele mess then we really are stupid and with the technical team we've now assembled, i doubt we could be that stupid. Thankfully, Levy's voice is not the only one in the room.

comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
Data is just an efficient way of compiling a short list and, in theory, reducing the error margins of buying a donkey. It doesn't eliminate these because so many other environmental factors are at play.

Also, and this is an argument I had with my fvckwit HR over decades, the key thing is answering the question what is the opportunity we are looking to fill and what qualities does that role need and don't just give me a shortlist of scheite that YOU think is the profile YOU would like to see.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing beats an 'Arry Redknapp 'unch. That's all the data we needed right there

"comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
Data is just an efficient way of compiling a short list and, in theory, reducing the error margins of buying a donkey."


Lots of examples, I think, where clubs have clearly signed a donkey because primarily motivated by data & statistics and not enough simple scouting.

There are so many variables in football, compared to say the Moneyball/Baseball scenario, that yeah I think it can be really useful in identifiying players who are probably undervalued in the market but I don't think football as a whole will ever move away from human scouts watching players in person being a huge part of it

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 10 minutes ago
Who did Pleat recommend that we didn’t go for out of interest?
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One was a young Maddison @ Coventry

comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 25 minutes ago
Who did Pleat recommend that we didn’t go for out of interest?
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Pleat says that he advised Tottenham to sign Jarrod Bowen for £8million from Hull City, Ivan Toney for a similar price, and Ollie Watkins when he was still a box-to-box midfielder at Exeter City.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5731742/2024/09/07/tottenham-pleat-levy-sugar-hoddle-dele/

Pretty sure he would recommended some dud players as well. He will only talk about the ones who went on and made it.

Also read he recommended Eze and Olise as well but can't find the source.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Alex Ferguson once said "You have to get 50% of your signings right" So even one of the greatest managers of all time accepted that at best it's 50/50 whether a new signing works out or not.

comment by Tarrico_sees_red (U5595)
posted 10 minutes ago
I’m sure he’d have some misses but those would have potentially been hits.

The interesting thing for me is that those players you mention are all what I’d call proper footballers in terms of touch, control and an ability to scare the opposition. Apart from Watkins who I’m not mad keen on.

Then we get players like Johnson, Richy who have the touch of the proverbial. Is this based on data?

Who knows🤷‍♂️
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Let's be honest, if we signed any players from the championship, you would be a group of others tut tutting away at the ambition of the club by signing such players from a lower league. Mr QC of transfers lol

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

David pleat is still in football in 2024.... Wow that is spursy