posted 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
A lot of sense in this...
AS a Scot who has played and coached in Norway for the past 20 years or so, Kevin Nicol was looking forward to the Conference League qualifiers between St Mirren and Brann and Kilmarnock and Tromso back in August.
Nicol was intrigued to see how two top flight clubs from his homeland would fare against rivals from the country which he has made his home in the third qualifying round.
What he witnessed in those double headers, though, troubled him greatly.
He was taken aback by both the lack of homegrown players in the St Mirren and Kilmarnock sides and the superior technical ability of Brann and Tromso teams packed full of young talent which they had developed in their own academies.
“I was actually shocked to see St Mirren’s starting line-up against Brann,” he said. “They only had two Scottish players [Marcus Fraser and Shaun Rooney] in the starting XI.
“But what really shocked me, without being disrespectful, is that they had all these players from League One, League Two and even non-league in England.
“These guys have certainly got strength and power. But surely we must be able to find players, young players in particular, who have just as much quality and more potential than guys who have come from non-league down south?
“Kilmarnock ended up winning and going through to the play-off. But I thought Tromso were by far the better team over the two games. They had youth players on the pitch who showed really good quality on the ball.
“I follow Scottish football quite closely and I was very surprised there was not some kind of uproar about the lack of chances for young Scottish players in these games. Playing young players is the way forward. Over here it is very different.”
Followers of the Scottish national team, who enjoyed a dramatic Euro 2024 qualifying win over Norway in Oslo last year, may feel the game on these shores is superior to that in the Nordic nation.
However, Nicoll, the manager at First Division outfit Mjondalen, knows for his personal experience that it is some considerable distance behind when it comes to developing and promoting native prospects.
The statistics back up his viewpoint. A Transfermarkt study in the summer showed the Eliteserien in Norway had the second highest percentage of total minutes (11.4) played by under-21 players of any top flight league in Europe in the 2023/24 season.
The Premiership in Scotland (3.2) was some distance behind in 11th place. The Eredivisie in the Netherlands (8.8), Ligue 1 in France (8.0), Bundesliga in Germany (6.6), La Liga in Spain (4.0), Primera Liga in Portugal (3.9) and even the Premier League in England (3.8) were all higher.
Nicol acknowledged that having a 16 team top flight enables managers to give emerging prospects game time. However, he revealed that there has been a concerted effort to develop and play homegrown footballers at all levels which is starting to bear fruit both on and off the pitch.
Rules which stipulate that 16 members of a 25 man squad must be locally trained, and at least two club trained, help greatly. There is, too, an emphasis on technique over physicality and results.
“There was a marked change in philosophy in Norwegian football in around 2010 when the national team started to struggle,” said Nicol. “They had great success under Egil Olsen in the 1990s. But they had started to fall away.
“There’s been a huge effort put into playing young players at every top club and also making money from selling young players. Norwegian top football, as they call it over here, puts a lot of money into the academy system.
“Clubs like Stabaek have invested in their academy over many years. But they have probably made as much money back by selling players. Antonio Nusa, who was sold to Club Brugge for €5.7m and has now been sold to RB Leipzig in Germany for €21m, is a perfect example.
“But they are by no means alone. Martin Odegaard played for Stromsgodset at the age of 15 or 16 and Erling Haaland played for Bryne at the age of 16. There isn’t as much of a fear factor in the Eliteserien when it comes to giving young players game time if they are a special talent.
“What we have in the Eliteserien is 16 teams, two relegation spots and one play-off relegation place. That helps with the fear factor. If any more clubs were relegated it might make a manager a bit more cynical. In general, I think there is a fear factor in Scottish football because of the size of the Premiership and the size of the Championship as well.
“If you go on a bad run then you could find yourself around the relegation spots. So I totally understand why St Mirren and Kilmarnock don’t have many young Scottish players playing for them.
“A 16 team league is something worth considering in Scotland. I think it would be interesting, would give a different feel to things. Falkirk, Dunfermline, Raith Rovers, Partick Thistle, these are good sized clubs. There would be less of a fear factor about going down for clubs like Motherwell, St Mirren and Ross County if there were 16 teams.”
Nicol added: “But the main thing for me in Norway is the mentality. It is about having a willingness to play youngsters, a willingness to play football, a willingness to look for skill and technique over physique. That starts at a young age here.
“The main difference is that at a very young age in Scotland we are taught that it is all about winning. When I was a young player of 13 or 14, my father would get phone calls from boys clubs who wanted me to join them. It is all about finishing on top of the league. There is less focus on development in Scotland.
“If I went back to Scotland I would be looking to get the players to play more football, to play in a more entertaining style. A lot of the football I watch back home is very basic. There is some way to go for Scotland when it comes to emulating the style of football elsewhere in Europe, maybe even in England.
“It leads us towards a more physical style of individual who competes hard and wins his battles. If you do play direct football that leads towards a more experienced football team and there are less opportunities for players who might be less developed physically.
“I can’t play direct football because young players who have come through an academy have been brought up in a different manner. The weakness of playing academy players is that they struggle with the physical style of the game, winning duels in their own box and defending set pieces. It can be difficult with a young team. But the benefits far outweigh the negatives for me in the long run.
“We sold a player last year called Sondre Grammas to Molde and made £1m on that transfer. That keeps us alive. He played in the first team in the second tier when he was 16. He was one of our main players. You can build a club, make sure a club is financially stable. We have to play our young players, we have no choice.
“In Scandinavia, especially Norway and Denmark, they have made millions and millions from selling players to clubs in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. It has helped grow football in the country. A lot of the money goes back into development to make it even better in the long run.
“There is almost a snowball effect. Clubs see other clubs selling players to clubs in Europe and they want a part of it. They know that over time it helps the economy of the club and also helps them to sign better players from other countries. I think it is a win-win situation.
“The Norwegian youth teams are doing really well at the moment. They are competing well against the top teams in Europe. The Norway Under-19 team have qualified for the Under-20 World Cup in Chile next year. So, yeah, it is looking very, very bright over here in terms of youth development.
“It takes a bit of time. But there must be talent there in Scotland. It is our national game. We might only be a country of five million people, but other countries of the same size, such as Denmark, manage to do well. We have got some way to go.”
Nicol, a former defensive midfielder who started out at Raith Rovers in his home town of Kirkcaldy before moving on to play for Hibernian and then Stromsgodset, Haugesund, Mjondalen, Moss, Frigg and Asker in Norway, was pleased to see the SFA publish a “transition phase” paper back in May which proposed the introduction of cooperation clubs in Scotland.
At the moment, many leading clubs, not least Celtic and Rangers, keep their best academy players in their first team squad for an entire season rather than farm them out to lower league clubs because UEFA stipulate they need to have eight locally trained players in their squads for the Champions League and Europa League.
However, that means aspiring professionals stagnate due to a lack of competitive minutes. The SFA would like parent clubs to be able to recall them when needed outside of transfer windows. Nicol explained that a similar scheme has existed in Norway for a number of years.
“We have six players on loan from other clubs at Mjondalen,” he said. “We have special agreements in place. The NFF allow a player under 23 who is on loan at a club in Norway to be called back any time. We have five players who can be called back at any time.
“It is a bit of a concern when that happens. We had a central defender who was called back by Brann in the summer and that was a blow. But we have benefited enormously from taking these players, who are usually youth internationals, from top clubs on loan.
“We have one player from Bodo/Glimt, two players from Stromsgodset, a player from Odd and a player from KFUM. It has been tremendous for us to get these young players in. It gives a bit of extra quality in terms of touch and technique because they can all play. They are also not very expensive so it helps us financially as well.
“The one drawback is they are not our players so you are developing players for another team. But at the same time it helps us win football matches. I have really enjoyed it and I think it would be a great idea in Scotland. It will take the young lads a step closer to playing for a big club. It also helps them to take the physicality a step up.
“Also, if the player has not got a future at Celtic or Rangers and they are playing regularly it increases their value and helps their club make money. That is another tactical aspect of it. By giving the young players game time at League One level, say, it actually increases their value.”
Norway have not qualified for a World Cup since 1998 or a European Championship since 2000 and are currently in the B Division of the Nations League. But Nicol can only see their fortunes improving in the near future due to the youth system they now have in place.
“The national teams have struggled to find good enough central defenders, maybe top goalkeepers,” he said. “But when I look at their midfield players and offensive options I believe they can actually challenge for qualification when it comes to the next two major tournaments.
“They have the best striker in the world (Haaland) and one of the best attacking midfield players in the world (Odegaard) as well. Going forward, they are very exciting. There is also Oscar Bobb at Manchester City and Antonio Nusa at RB Leipzig, very talented wingers.
“It is almost the opposite from Scotland. Under Steve Clarke, they have been very solid. He has done a wonderful job with the players he has had. I agree with him focusing on the defensive side of the game. I don’t think we would have qualified for the Euros if he didn’t do that.
“But we miss the attacking flair. We have the toughness that gets us through games, such as the one against Norway. Scotland had the extra mental strength and spirit to get through that game.
“A little balance is in order for both countries – Norway need to be stronger defensively and tougher and Scotland need more attacking flair. Maybe back in the day when kids played street football more we developed players with touch and technique who we don’t have any more. We need to get back to that.
“I did my coaching badges over in Scotland and there are great people there. I say these things from a position of humility. But I think we need to focus more on football and less on physicality and fighting. We could make great steps if we did so.”
ARE YOU SACKING CLARKE?
Page 3 of 3
posted 13 hours, 20 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 3 minutes ago
ALEX Scott's BBC future is in jeopardy over a perceived "lack of support" surrounding Football Focus.
The star was said to be "deeply hurt" by the Corporation's handling of the situation after she was blamed for falling viewing figures - prompting the star to make a complaint to bosses last year.
------------
Imagine blaming your boss for your underperformanceMaybe all those promotions on the back of multiple minority status are coming home to roost?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A factor but not completely to blame. No one really bothers with these kind of shows on TV anymore. If Adrian Chiles took over would it really make the ratings shoot right up?
posted 13 hours, 12 minutes ago
comment by Fabián Caballero (U1734)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 3 minutes ago
ALEX Scott's BBC future is in jeopardy over a perceived "lack of support" surrounding Football Focus.
The star was said to be "deeply hurt" by the Corporation's handling of the situation after she was blamed for falling viewing figures - prompting the star to make a complaint to bosses last year.
------------
Imagine blaming your boss for your underperformanceMaybe all those promotions on the back of multiple minority status are coming home to roost?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A factor but not completely to blame. No one really bothers with these kind of shows on TV anymore. If Adrian Chiles took over would it really make the ratings shoot right up?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No idea who watches it or why.
posted 12 hours, 55 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Fabián Caballero (U1734)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 3 minutes ago
ALEX Scott's BBC future is in jeopardy over a perceived "lack of support" surrounding Football Focus.
The star was said to be "deeply hurt" by the Corporation's handling of the situation after she was blamed for falling viewing figures - prompting the star to make a complaint to bosses last year.
------------
Imagine blaming your boss for your underperformanceMaybe all those promotions on the back of multiple minority status are coming home to roost?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A factor but not completely to blame. No one really bothers with these kind of shows on TV anymore. If Adrian Chiles took over would it really make the ratings shoot right up?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No idea who watches it or why.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Before the internet it could be mildly interesting for learning stuff about current football stuff and stuff happening that weekend. Other option was Teletext
posted 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
A lot of sense in this...
AS a Scot who has played and coached in Norway for the past 20 years or so, Kevin Nicol was looking forward to the Conference League qualifiers between St Mirren and Brann and Kilmarnock and Tromso back in August.
Nicol was intrigued to see how two top flight clubs from his homeland would fare against rivals from the country which he has made his home in the third qualifying round.
What he witnessed in those double headers, though, troubled him greatly.
He was taken aback by both the lack of homegrown players in the St Mirren and Kilmarnock sides and the superior technical ability of Brann and Tromso teams packed full of young talent which they had developed in their own academies.
“I was actually shocked to see St Mirren’s starting line-up against Brann,” he said. “They only had two Scottish players [Marcus Fraser and Shaun Rooney] in the starting XI.
“But what really shocked me, without being disrespectful, is that they had all these players from League One, League Two and even non-league in England.
“These guys have certainly got strength and power. But surely we must be able to find players, young players in particular, who have just as much quality and more potential than guys who have come from non-league down south?
“Kilmarnock ended up winning and going through to the play-off. But I thought Tromso were by far the better team over the two games. They had youth players on the pitch who showed really good quality on the ball.
“I follow Scottish football quite closely and I was very surprised there was not some kind of uproar about the lack of chances for young Scottish players in these games. Playing young players is the way forward. Over here it is very different.”
Followers of the Scottish national team, who enjoyed a dramatic Euro 2024 qualifying win over Norway in Oslo last year, may feel the game on these shores is superior to that in the Nordic nation.
However, Nicoll, the manager at First Division outfit Mjondalen, knows for his personal experience that it is some considerable distance behind when it comes to developing and promoting native prospects.
The statistics back up his viewpoint. A Transfermarkt study in the summer showed the Eliteserien in Norway had the second highest percentage of total minutes (11.4) played by under-21 players of any top flight league in Europe in the 2023/24 season.
The Premiership in Scotland (3.2) was some distance behind in 11th place. The Eredivisie in the Netherlands (8.8), Ligue 1 in France (8.0), Bundesliga in Germany (6.6), La Liga in Spain (4.0), Primera Liga in Portugal (3.9) and even the Premier League in England (3.8) were all higher.
Nicol acknowledged that having a 16 team top flight enables managers to give emerging prospects game time. However, he revealed that there has been a concerted effort to develop and play homegrown footballers at all levels which is starting to bear fruit both on and off the pitch.
Rules which stipulate that 16 members of a 25 man squad must be locally trained, and at least two club trained, help greatly. There is, too, an emphasis on technique over physicality and results.
“There was a marked change in philosophy in Norwegian football in around 2010 when the national team started to struggle,” said Nicol. “They had great success under Egil Olsen in the 1990s. But they had started to fall away.
“There’s been a huge effort put into playing young players at every top club and also making money from selling young players. Norwegian top football, as they call it over here, puts a lot of money into the academy system.
“Clubs like Stabaek have invested in their academy over many years. But they have probably made as much money back by selling players. Antonio Nusa, who was sold to Club Brugge for €5.7m and has now been sold to RB Leipzig in Germany for €21m, is a perfect example.
“But they are by no means alone. Martin Odegaard played for Stromsgodset at the age of 15 or 16 and Erling Haaland played for Bryne at the age of 16. There isn’t as much of a fear factor in the Eliteserien when it comes to giving young players game time if they are a special talent.
“What we have in the Eliteserien is 16 teams, two relegation spots and one play-off relegation place. That helps with the fear factor. If any more clubs were relegated it might make a manager a bit more cynical. In general, I think there is a fear factor in Scottish football because of the size of the Premiership and the size of the Championship as well.
“If you go on a bad run then you could find yourself around the relegation spots. So I totally understand why St Mirren and Kilmarnock don’t have many young Scottish players playing for them.
“A 16 team league is something worth considering in Scotland. I think it would be interesting, would give a different feel to things. Falkirk, Dunfermline, Raith Rovers, Partick Thistle, these are good sized clubs. There would be less of a fear factor about going down for clubs like Motherwell, St Mirren and Ross County if there were 16 teams.”
Nicol added: “But the main thing for me in Norway is the mentality. It is about having a willingness to play youngsters, a willingness to play football, a willingness to look for skill and technique over physique. That starts at a young age here.
“The main difference is that at a very young age in Scotland we are taught that it is all about winning. When I was a young player of 13 or 14, my father would get phone calls from boys clubs who wanted me to join them. It is all about finishing on top of the league. There is less focus on development in Scotland.
“If I went back to Scotland I would be looking to get the players to play more football, to play in a more entertaining style. A lot of the football I watch back home is very basic. There is some way to go for Scotland when it comes to emulating the style of football elsewhere in Europe, maybe even in England.
“It leads us towards a more physical style of individual who competes hard and wins his battles. If you do play direct football that leads towards a more experienced football team and there are less opportunities for players who might be less developed physically.
“I can’t play direct football because young players who have come through an academy have been brought up in a different manner. The weakness of playing academy players is that they struggle with the physical style of the game, winning duels in their own box and defending set pieces. It can be difficult with a young team. But the benefits far outweigh the negatives for me in the long run.
“We sold a player last year called Sondre Grammas to Molde and made £1m on that transfer. That keeps us alive. He played in the first team in the second tier when he was 16. He was one of our main players. You can build a club, make sure a club is financially stable. We have to play our young players, we have no choice.
“In Scandinavia, especially Norway and Denmark, they have made millions and millions from selling players to clubs in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. It has helped grow football in the country. A lot of the money goes back into development to make it even better in the long run.
“There is almost a snowball effect. Clubs see other clubs selling players to clubs in Europe and they want a part of it. They know that over time it helps the economy of the club and also helps them to sign better players from other countries. I think it is a win-win situation.
“The Norwegian youth teams are doing really well at the moment. They are competing well against the top teams in Europe. The Norway Under-19 team have qualified for the Under-20 World Cup in Chile next year. So, yeah, it is looking very, very bright over here in terms of youth development.
“It takes a bit of time. But there must be talent there in Scotland. It is our national game. We might only be a country of five million people, but other countries of the same size, such as Denmark, manage to do well. We have got some way to go.”
Nicol, a former defensive midfielder who started out at Raith Rovers in his home town of Kirkcaldy before moving on to play for Hibernian and then Stromsgodset, Haugesund, Mjondalen, Moss, Frigg and Asker in Norway, was pleased to see the SFA publish a “transition phase” paper back in May which proposed the introduction of cooperation clubs in Scotland.
At the moment, many leading clubs, not least Celtic and Rangers, keep their best academy players in their first team squad for an entire season rather than farm them out to lower league clubs because UEFA stipulate they need to have eight locally trained players in their squads for the Champions League and Europa League.
However, that means aspiring professionals stagnate due to a lack of competitive minutes. The SFA would like parent clubs to be able to recall them when needed outside of transfer windows. Nicol explained that a similar scheme has existed in Norway for a number of years.
“We have six players on loan from other clubs at Mjondalen,” he said. “We have special agreements in place. The NFF allow a player under 23 who is on loan at a club in Norway to be called back any time. We have five players who can be called back at any time.
“It is a bit of a concern when that happens. We had a central defender who was called back by Brann in the summer and that was a blow. But we have benefited enormously from taking these players, who are usually youth internationals, from top clubs on loan.
“We have one player from Bodo/Glimt, two players from Stromsgodset, a player from Odd and a player from KFUM. It has been tremendous for us to get these young players in. It gives a bit of extra quality in terms of touch and technique because they can all play. They are also not very expensive so it helps us financially as well.
“The one drawback is they are not our players so you are developing players for another team. But at the same time it helps us win football matches. I have really enjoyed it and I think it would be a great idea in Scotland. It will take the young lads a step closer to playing for a big club. It also helps them to take the physicality a step up.
“Also, if the player has not got a future at Celtic or Rangers and they are playing regularly it increases their value and helps their club make money. That is another tactical aspect of it. By giving the young players game time at League One level, say, it actually increases their value.”
Norway have not qualified for a World Cup since 1998 or a European Championship since 2000 and are currently in the B Division of the Nations League. But Nicol can only see their fortunes improving in the near future due to the youth system they now have in place.
“The national teams have struggled to find good enough central defenders, maybe top goalkeepers,” he said. “But when I look at their midfield players and offensive options I believe they can actually challenge for qualification when it comes to the next two major tournaments.
“They have the best striker in the world (Haaland) and one of the best attacking midfield players in the world (Odegaard) as well. Going forward, they are very exciting. There is also Oscar Bobb at Manchester City and Antonio Nusa at RB Leipzig, very talented wingers.
“It is almost the opposite from Scotland. Under Steve Clarke, they have been very solid. He has done a wonderful job with the players he has had. I agree with him focusing on the defensive side of the game. I don’t think we would have qualified for the Euros if he didn’t do that.
“But we miss the attacking flair. We have the toughness that gets us through games, such as the one against Norway. Scotland had the extra mental strength and spirit to get through that game.
“A little balance is in order for both countries – Norway need to be stronger defensively and tougher and Scotland need more attacking flair. Maybe back in the day when kids played street football more we developed players with touch and technique who we don’t have any more. We need to get back to that.
“I did my coaching badges over in Scotland and there are great people there. I say these things from a position of humility. But I think we need to focus more on football and less on physicality and fighting. We could make great steps if we did so.”
posted 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 10 hours, 31 minutes ago
ALEX Scott's BBC future is in jeopardy over a perceived "lack of support" surrounding Football Focus.
The star was said to be "deeply hurt" by the Corporation's handling of the situation after she was blamed for falling viewing figures - prompting the star to make a complaint to bosses last year.
------------
Imagine blaming your boss for your underperformanceMaybe all those promotions on the back of multiple minority status are coming home to roost?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I were to mention that about some in my company, I wouldn't be in a job long. Promoted to their level of incompetence.
posted 2 hours, 40 minutes ago
Good read Silver
I've argued for years that we should have 2 divisions in Scotland, 20 club top flight, 22 club second tier
Would mean that half the young players that get farmed out on loan could play top flight football, would mean better money and a higher level of competition for clubs that are currently championship level, and the national game would benefit from it
Nothing will ever change though, unless theres a change in the thinking regards the old firm dollar being the top priority for both broadcasters and the other top flight clubs
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by St3vie (U11028)
posted 33 minutes ago
Good read Silver
I've argued for years that we should have 2 divisions in Scotland, 20 club top flight, 22 club second tier
Would mean that half the young players that get farmed out on loan could play top flight football, would mean better money and a higher level of competition for clubs that are currently championship level, and the national game would benefit from it
Nothing will ever change though, unless theres a change in the thinking regards the old firm dollar being the top priority for both broadcasters and the other top flight clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree - the big 2 fck it for everyone else and should be in a different league - then 2 leagues might make sense.
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
I still maintain that 42 clubs is way too many for a country the size of Scotland.
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Why the pallaver (apathe....ah what's the... (U10168)
posted 47 minutes ago
I still maintain that 42 clubs is way too many for a country the size of Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Technically there are way more than42 clubs. But I am being obtuse in that regard. The problem is we have 42 clubs that are classed as professional.
The tier system that is in place now works and should be heralded for it but it still hits barriers around what being league 2 actually means.
There are many junior clubs better than most of league 2 or at the very leats on a par. League 2 clubs stadiums etc are no better than the best of the junior set up.
I would say the Championship splitting in half with half into the Prem and the other half joining current League 1 would be significantly better for a lot of teams.
The old adage of there wouyld be too many meaningless games - guess what - no one goes anyway and Sky TV don't care about meaningful gamesin Scotland
Push League 2 into the pyramid and let they clubs prove their worth. East Stirling and then Albion Rovers have shown that the only thing keeping them in the professional set up was simply having no relegation. Let's allow more clubs like Cove to flourish.Then either the lower clubs step up to the plate or get replaced - but not at a cost to the professional teams further up
posted 37 minutes ago
The old adage of there wouyld be too many meaningless games - guess what - no one goes anyway and Sky TV don't care about meaningful gamesin Scotland"
Are we not the best represented league in Europe?
Page 3 of 3