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‘Clear and obvious error’

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posted 4 weeks ago

And he makes contentious numerous decisions which go in favour of City

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4922732/2023/10/03/referees-var-diaz-liverpool?source=user-shared-article

And used to enjoy nice lucrative working holidays paid for by the owners of City

posted 4 weeks ago

I mean they arrived at the correct decision and whilst I agree it wasn't a clear and obvious error and one people may interpret differently, for me it's all about the correct decision. Instead of United fans complaining about VAR correcting an error that's wasn't clear and obvious you'd have everybody else complaining the referee made the wrong decision and VAR didn't intervene.

They can't win as it's set up currently. For me they should just remove this 'clear and obvious' nonsense. If the VAR believes the referee has made a mistake he calls him to the screen to make up his own mind. If he knows hes made a mistake, ie it's factual, he simply tells him.

posted 4 weeks ago

TOOR being Michael Oliver's ja606 account makes a lot of sense actually.

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 51 seconds ago
TOOR being Michael Oliver's ja606 account makes a lot of sense actually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hardly. Oliver for me was the best referee in the league until Newcastle got bought over and started fighting up the top end of the table, then suddenly 'mistakes' crept in, like when he didn't give Liverpool a penalty at the end of the game against City when Doku kung fu kicked Diaz in the box, high up the chest.

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 53 minutes ago

comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 11 minutes ago

Oliver as ref team winrates

Man Utd 39.13% 46 games
Liverpool 47.62% 63 games
Chelsea 49.06% 53 games
Arsenal 50.00% 60 games
Spurs 50.94% 50 games
Lesta 53.49% 43 games








Man Cheaty 73.68% in 57 games

---------------------------------------------------------

do me a favour

those teams win rates are higher because they are better at playing football.

United have had their fair share of being awarded soft penalties, take the rough with the smooth
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come off it, even as the best team in the prem thats a crazy high win % over 50 odd games... and for so many big teams to have just around 50% or less with him too... The disparity is absurd.

--------------------

the irony tho, a United fan complaining about ref decisions

United were by far the best side for 20 years, the 90's especially... but you had your fair share of refs awarding you things over that period. these things usually even out.

unless you're calling a professional ref an actual cheat?

posted 4 weeks ago

I mean they arrived at the correct decision
———

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 53 minutes ago

comment by The Spanish Italians - Its all coming home again (U21595)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 11 minutes ago

Oliver as ref team winrates

Man Utd 39.13% 46 games
Liverpool 47.62% 63 games
Chelsea 49.06% 53 games
Arsenal 50.00% 60 games
Spurs 50.94% 50 games
Lesta 53.49% 43 games








Man Cheaty 73.68% in 57 games

---------------------------------------------------------

do me a favour

those teams win rates are higher because they are better at playing football.

United have had their fair share of being awarded soft penalties, take the rough with the smooth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
come off it, even as the best team in the prem thats a crazy high win % over 50 odd games... and for so many big teams to have just around 50% or less with him too... The disparity is absurd.

--------------------

the irony tho, a United fan complaining about ref decisions

United were by far the best side for 20 years, the 90's especially... but you had your fair share of refs awarding you things over that period. these things usually even out.

unless you're calling a professional ref an actual cheat?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think Inbefore will be horrified to be called a United fan.

As for Michael Oliver, the stats speak for themselves. As do his actions.

posted 4 weeks ago

Let's not forget Oliver refused to send off a City player for 2 obvious reds as he didn't want to impact the game, then a year later in the same fixture had no hesitation in sending off a player against City in the first half for kicking the ball away even though it didn't delay the restart as a player was injured and City didn't have the ball.

posted 4 weeks ago

Michael Oliver once sent off Ander Herrera (2 yellow cards) for persistent fouling. He made 1 foul in the entire time he was on the pitch.

posted 4 weeks ago

Michael Oliver once didn't send off Pickford for a two foot lunge on VVD which put him out for the season. It was offside so it was fine.

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 1 minute ago
Michael Oliver once didn't send off Pickford for a two foot lunge on VVD which put him out for the season. It was offside so it was fine.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

If feel fans of all clubs could pick out many incidents like this and others mentioned above. Well I say all clubs. There is possibly one that couldn't.

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
I mean they arrived at the correct decision
———

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports has disagreed with the decision. I'm not sure people understand how horrifically bad a decision has to be for him to do that...

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
I mean they arrived at the correct decision
———

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports has disagreed with the decision. I'm not sure people understand how horrifically bad a decision has to be for him to do that...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn't believe De Ligt fouled the attacker? Or you mean he disagreed for VAR to become involved? How in the world can you disagree it was a foul? The player bombs into the box, De Ligt doesn't get the ball but gets the man. That's a foul, no?

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
I mean they arrived at the correct decision
———

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports has disagreed with the decision. I'm not sure people understand how horrifically bad a decision has to be for him to do that...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. But Toor is a bit disabled, so…

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
I mean they arrived at the correct decision
———

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports has disagreed with the decision. I'm not sure people understand how horrifically bad a decision has to be for him to do that...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn't believe De Ligt fouled the attacker? Or you mean he disagreed for VAR to become involved? How in the world can you disagree it was a foul? The player bombs into the box, De Ligt doesn't get the ball but gets the man. That's a foul, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He does get the ball

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 5 hours, 25 minutes ago
I mean they arrived at the correct decision and whilst I agree it wasn't a clear and obvious error and one people may interpret differently, for me it's all about the correct decision. Instead of United fans complaining about VAR correcting an error that's wasn't clear and obvious you'd have everybody else complaining the referee made the wrong decision and VAR didn't intervene.

They can't win as it's set up currently. For me they should just remove this 'clear and obvious' nonsense. If the VAR believes the referee has made a mistake he calls him to the screen to make up his own mind. If he knows hes made a mistake, ie it's factual, he simply tells him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it wasn’t a clear and obvious error, in accordance with the guidelines, they didn’t in fact arrive at the correct decision.

posted 4 weeks ago

So now both Keith Hackett and Dermot Gallagher, among many others, have questioned the decision. TOOR is in the mud!

posted 4 weeks ago

“ Instead of United fans complaining about VAR correcting an error that's wasn't clear and obvious you'd have everybody else complaining the referee made the wrong decision and VAR didn't intervene. “

Going by the punditry and general comments across fan bases this week, I’d say this isn’t true at all.

I don’t think many people would have bat an eyelid if that wasn’t reviewed, personally.

posted 4 weeks ago

On the general subject, it’s a fundamental flaw of VAR.

You cannot have clear guidelines on anything that is subjective. It doesn’t work and won’t ever work, in the way people want it to anyway.

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Joshua The King Of Kings Zirkzee (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
I mean they arrived at the correct decision
———

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports has disagreed with the decision. I'm not sure people understand how horrifically bad a decision has to be for him to do that...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He didn't believe De Ligt fouled the attacker? Or you mean he disagreed for VAR to become involved? How in the world can you disagree it was a foul? The player bombs into the box, De Ligt doesn't get the ball but gets the man. That's a foul, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He does get the ball
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh. I watched it a few times this morning and didn't see that.

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 46 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 5 hours, 25 minutes ago
I mean they arrived at the correct decision and whilst I agree it wasn't a clear and obvious error and one people may interpret differently, for me it's all about the correct decision. Instead of United fans complaining about VAR correcting an error that's wasn't clear and obvious you'd have everybody else complaining the referee made the wrong decision and VAR didn't intervene.

They can't win as it's set up currently. For me they should just remove this 'clear and obvious' nonsense. If the VAR believes the referee has made a mistake he calls him to the screen to make up his own mind. If he knows hes made a mistake, ie it's factual, he simply tells him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it wasn’t a clear and obvious error, in accordance with the guidelines, they didn’t in fact arrive at the correct decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well they did, in my opinion and the VARs opinion but because it wasn't a clear and obvious error they shouldn't have as they had to stick with the 'incorrect' decision of the referee. Although with it not being clear and obvious, ie some people are saying he got the ball, then obviously in their opinion, they didn't arrive at the correct decision.

I haven't see any replay which shows him getting the ball. The ones I watched this morning he didn't. Perhaps there was an angle which proved he did?

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
“ Instead of United fans complaining about VAR correcting an error that's wasn't clear and obvious you'd have everybody else complaining the referee made the wrong decision and VAR didn't intervene. “

Going by the punditry and general comments across fan bases this week, I’d say this isn’t true at all.

I don’t think many people would have bat an eyelid if that wasn’t reviewed, personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree it shouldn't have been reviewed but I'm sure many would have complained about it. That's the nature of football fans on subjective decisions like this one.

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
On the general subject, it’s a fundamental flaw of VAR.

You cannot have clear guidelines on anything that is subjective. It doesn’t work and won’t ever work, in the way people want it to anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this, which is why I'd remove 'clear and obvious'. If the VAR disagrees on the subjective decision let the referee have a look at it to make his own mind up, as they did in this case.

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 4 minutes ago
“ Instead of United fans complaining about VAR correcting an error that's wasn't clear and obvious you'd have everybody else complaining the referee made the wrong decision and VAR didn't intervene. “

Going by the punditry and general comments across fan bases this week, I’d say this isn’t true at all.

I don’t think many people would have bat an eyelid if that wasn’t reviewed, personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree it shouldn't have been reviewed but I'm sure many would have complained about it. That's the nature of football fans on subjective decisions like this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don’t agree.

There’s always a minority that will complain about everything but I’d say ‘everyone else’ complaining would be reserved for a controversial decision.

I’m not sure many people would be calling that controversial, had it not been given.

I base that on the sheer volume of people - outside Man Utd fans - calling it a wrong decision, harsh etc.

posted 4 weeks ago

comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unl... (U17054)
posted 1 hour, 46 minutes ago
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 5 hours, 25 minutes ago
I mean they arrived at the correct decision and whilst I agree it wasn't a clear and obvious error and one people may interpret differently, for me it's all about the correct decision. Instead of United fans complaining about VAR correcting an error that's wasn't clear and obvious you'd have everybody else complaining the referee made the wrong decision and VAR didn't intervene.

They can't win as it's set up currently. For me they should just remove this 'clear and obvious' nonsense. If the VAR believes the referee has made a mistake he calls him to the screen to make up his own mind. If he knows hes made a mistake, ie it's factual, he simply tells him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If it wasn’t a clear and obvious error, in accordance with the guidelines, they didn’t in fact arrive at the correct decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well they did, in my opinion and the VARs opinion but because it wasn't a clear and obvious error they shouldn't have as they had to stick with the 'incorrect' decision of the referee. Although with it not being clear and obvious, ie some people are saying he got the ball, then obviously in their opinion, they didn't arrive at the correct decision.

I haven't see any replay which shows him getting the ball. The ones I watched this morning he didn't. Perhaps there was an angle which proved he did?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s irrelevant.

If the ref sees the incident and judges it not to be a foul, which he did; and it wasn’t, quote, “without doubt” a “clear error”, which it wasn’t; then the decisions to intervene and to award the penalty are both wrong.

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