Winning cups certainly shows progress. It kept ten hag in a job for starters.
But theres realistically 2/3 trophies available for most clubs each year. Getting to a final or winning a trophy is no joke.

I'd rather win a trophy every year then get top 4, obviously might not be maintainable for the financials of the club but still as a fan what i'd prefer.

Well for the current team, Top4 and/or a trophy.

So basically back to where we were under Poch.

Except Poch never won a trophy. We did get top 4, but what’s the point in that even if you’ve no chance of winning it?
Let’s be clear, levy only wants champions league due to the ticket sales and sponsorship deals it brings. Winning the things isn’t on the agenda, else we wouldn’t keep seeing the likes of Werner, Davies and 17 year old kids in the starting XI

I'm so baffled why spurs don't seem to win trophies. Spurs is obviously a big club and has history. I'm a United supporter and if if we're not going to win whatever tournament then I'd love to see Spurs win it instead. That CL final a few years ago I would have been so happy to see Spurs lift it. Even an FA Cup win I think would be a huge platform for Spurs to build further success from

comment by #1 House - (U17162)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm so baffled why spurs don't seem to win trophies. Spurs is obviously a big club and has history. I'm a United supporter and if if we're not going to win whatever tournament then I'd love to see Spurs win it instead. That CL final a few years ago I would have been so happy to see Spurs lift it. Even an FA Cup win I think would be a huge platform for Spurs to build further success from
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I do sometimes wonder what would have happened had we won that CL. We were 90 minutes from it which seems crazy right now, but maybe just maybe it would have been a springboard, but deep down I kind of know ENIC would probably have just rested on their laurels and not kicked on.

comment by Sir Tottenham of Hotspur (U17379)
posted 26 minutes ago
Except Poch never won a trophy. We did get top 4, but what’s the point in that even if you’ve no chance of winning it?
Let’s be clear, levy only wants champions league due to the ticket sales and sponsorship deals it brings. Winning the things isn’t on the agenda, else we wouldn’t keep seeing the likes of Werner, Davies and 17 year old kids in the starting XI
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We got Top 4 regularly though, and we competed in semi’s and finals, so I’d like to get back to at least that please.

The thing about using cups as a measure is that there is a lot of luck involved in the process.

We've drawn City in the EFL and we did so in the FA cup last season. Then we had an injury crisis and players off on AFCON and Asia Cup.

Tonight our injury situation is OK, we should be able to put out a challenging team but City remain the benchmark. They won this comp like 4 times in 5 years or something like that. Didn't lose in it for years so even where they are weakened they are well able to put out a very strong team that has beaten most in their path.

Also, look at United. Dog awful last season and going backwards, but won a cup....progress of just a one off exception to a general rule of being mediocre.

I actually think the Europa is easier to win than any domestic trophy. The best other PL in it is Utd and while there are some strong g European teams not to be underestimated no one really better than a top 6 PL team.

For me.progress is competing in everything we do to a higher level. It might not mean a trophy but we need to be getting close...and one must also have regard to the luck of the draw when assessing progress.

There's no ignoring the fact we just need any trophy to get the monkey off our backs. And also to stop losing our best players when they get bored of making up the numbers

Progress would be appointing a manager that takes the cups seriously.

I will be furious if I see nine changes tonight. Is it any wonder Spurs never win anything when the managers disrespect every cup competition they are in.

Spurs won all their cups in the 60s, 70s and 80s because the managers gave respect to the cup competitions.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 minutes ago
The thing about using cups as a measure is that there is a lot of luck involved in the process.

We've drawn City in the EFL and we did so in the FA cup last season. Then we had an injury crisis and players off on AFCON and Asia Cup.

Tonight our injury situation is OK, we should be able to put out a challenging team but City remain the benchmark. They won this comp like 4 times in 5 years or something like that. Didn't lose in it for years so even where they are weakened they are well able to put out a very strong team that has beaten most in their path.

Also, look at United. Dog awful last season and going backwards, but won a cup....progress of just a one off exception to a general rule of being mediocre.

I actually think the Europa is easier to win than any domestic trophy. The best other PL in it is Utd and while there are some strong g European teams not to be underestimated no one really better than a top 6 PL team.

For me.progress is competing in everything we do to a higher level. It might not mean a trophy but we need to be getting close...and one must also have regard to the luck of the draw when assessing progress.
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I get what you are saying. But absolutely no excuse for not going full strength tonight to at least try to progress. If this was a CL midweek match, would a manager be putting the reserves out? Of course he wouldn't.

comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 18 minutes ago
The thing about using cups as a measure is that there is a lot of luck involved in the process.

We've drawn City in the EFL and we did so in the FA cup last season. Then we had an injury crisis and players off on AFCON and Asia Cup.

Tonight our injury situation is OK, we should be able to put out a challenging team but City remain the benchmark. They won this comp like 4 times in 5 years or something like that. Didn't lose in it for years so even where they are weakened they are well able to put out a very strong team that has beaten most in their path.

Also, look at United. Dog awful last season and going backwards, but won a cup....progress of just a one off exception to a general rule of being mediocre.

I actually think the Europa is easier to win than any domestic trophy. The best other PL in it is Utd and while there are some strong g European teams not to be underestimated no one really better than a top 6 PL team.

For me.progress is competing in everything we do to a higher level. It might not mean a trophy but we need to be getting close...and one must also have regard to the luck of the draw when assessing progress.
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I get what you are saying. But absolutely no excuse for not going full strength tonight to at least try to progress. If this was a CL midweek match, would a manager be putting the reserves out? Of course he wouldn't.
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Will be toss up who makes most changes, city or Spurs

Definitely see a load of changes and an exit tonight

Not sure who made the point but had to nod in agreement …..does Ange risk a strong team and go out to a weakened team and really kill the mood or go under strength lose anyway and fall back on the fact it wasn’t our first team

The strongest focus should be on winning the Europa because that gets you a trophy and CL football.

However, you can get through to the league cup final before the knock out phase begins and so that should be priority right now.

The FA cup early rounds should only become important if we are knocked out of league cup before it starts.

Progress is definitely winning the Europa

It ticks every box for the fans and Enic (not that i care about ticking any boxes for them)

I still want to finish top 6 though

We don't have the luxury of picking and choosing what vuo we can win. We never win cups even when favourites.

We keep our chances of winning ANY trophy as high as possible for as long as possible. That starts with going full strength tonight IMO.

comment by Sir Tottenham of Hotspur (U17379)
posted 2 hours, 1 minute ago
comment by #1 House - (U17162)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm so baffled why spurs don't seem to win trophies. Spurs is obviously a big club and has history. I'm a United supporter and if if we're not going to win whatever tournament then I'd love to see Spurs win it instead. That CL final a few years ago I would have been so happy to see Spurs lift it. Even an FA Cup win I think would be a huge platform for Spurs to build further success from
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I do sometimes wonder what would have happened had we won that CL. We were 90 minutes from it which seems crazy right now, but maybe just maybe it would have been a springboard, but deep down I kind of know ENIC would probably have just rested on their laurels and not kicked on.
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Im not gonna lie and pretend to know the internal stuff with ENIC etc.
As a kind of outsider looking in Spurs look like they have a better team than us United, and ontop of that it's also far more simple for Tottenham than say for us. Win a trophy, just win a trophy and build upon it.

If Spurs win or don't win a trophy this season I'm sure you'll hovering around top 4 either way.

comment by Bake 'em away toys (U7303)
posted 13 minutes ago
We don't have the luxury of picking and choosing what vuo we can win. We never win cups even when favourites.

We keep our chances of winning ANY trophy as high as possible for as long as possible. That starts with going full strength tonight IMO.
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100 per cent correct. Absolutely no way can Spurs prioritise what trophy to go for when they haven't won anything for so long. City may be able to. But Spurs need to take every cup competition ultra serious. Let's hope Ange gets that.

I think Ange will hide behind a weakened team tonight

I hope I’m very wrong

I think every supporter would take a cup win over league position at the moment, other than being 1st, but I don't see why progress can't involve doing well on a number of fronts. That is what progress should look like, not just finishing 10th but winning a League Cup.

Obviously it depends how low in the league you'd finish. Let's be honest though, nobody really remembers Ramos as being a good Spurs manager despite the league win. We're looking for a manager to take us to the next level, and that should hopefully mean doing better in cup competitions AND in the league. Another Ramos is not really what we're looking for, even if we'd all love a cup win.

Leicester progressed spectacularly, it was way beyond the spectrum of what was sustainable under the clubs means though.

United with their 2 cups under ETH were still overall underperforming massively based on their means.