comment by ai'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 59 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 33 minutes ago

Portuguese league isn't top level. Dutch league is better and we've seen how players can smash it in that league and look totally lost in the PL. He's scored against a couple of good teams at national level and European club level. Thats it really.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, is it so hard to see past such basic generalisations?

There are loads of Portuguese and Dutch imports who've smashed in the big leagues and loads of 'PL-proved' and big league imports who've flopped.

In the end it comes down to how each individual player adapts not only to a different league, but to every individual club.

How much extra do you have to pay nowadays for someone who's already stood out in the PL, and is it worth it?

It's well over a decade since Fergie spoke of 'value in the market'. The same arguably applies now more than ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The lad isn't premier league proven and hasn't performed in a top league at 26 years old. I'm not saying he can't make it in the PL. Just saying that 60m or whatever it would take to sign him is a lot of money for someone with his body of work/past.

I'd much rather we concentrated on actually providing Hojlund with some service and seeing what he is capable of, before risking such a big amount on another striker

IOAG, it's a fair cop: that was a crude generalisation. But I'd defend the broader point that while there's a great deal of talent emerging from / passing through the Portuguese league, the transition to the PL is a significant challenge, and one can't assume the kind of productivity a dominant player in that league will translate to equivalent performance in England.

In reply to you both, on the one hand, Robb knows about as much about this fella as the next of us; this article is just his typical bandwagoning.

It's very obvious too that not every player signed from Portugal or the Netherlands is going to be a success, but there are currently over 100 Portuguese and Dutch players plying their trade in the big European leagues (plus many others who've 'graduated' through those leagues). The PL particularly is awash with them; this is far from being a United thing.

Similarly, the 'PL-proven' adage is greatly overstated, imo. It does make sense to want to see a player in action in higher-pressure environments, but it's also true that a lot of domestic signings flop too.

It's way, way too simplistic to pin United's shortcomings under Ten Hag on the lack of 'proven PL' signings, like Strikforce did, when none of the PL signings since Fergie left has been that great a success either.

Fellaini, Mata, Lukaku, Schneiderlin, Matic, Wan Bissaka, Mason Mount, James, Maguire ... none of those players are going to go down in United folklore for the right reasons.

I'd even argue that despite all his flaws and shortcomings, Bruno Fernandes is arguably one of your most successful signings in recent years, and where did he come from?

And United aren't really an exception either. The top sides are awash with players who arrived at their current clubs with no prior PL experience.

Take a quick look at the Player of the Season award. Going back a decade, only one of the winners -Kanté- had previous experience at a different PL club to the one where he won the award.

In fact, out of all of the winners this century, less than one in six (Kanté, Lampard, Bale and Rooney) had had prior PL experience at a different club.

IOAG I think all of those are reasonable points. I'm certainly not arguing that any player from any 'lesser' league has less chance of making it than a so-called PL proven footballer. Just that it is a step up, particularly in terms of the athleticism, speed and quality a forward will face. Of course the rest of the world develops more footballing talent than Great Britain does, and since the PL is the richest league, it will obviously import talent and obviously a majority of its best players will have emerged in weaker or at least less wealthy leagues. So no one sensible should suggest that player X isn't good enough because he plays abroad. What we also can't credibly argue is that player Y who is tearing it up in Portugal is obviously going to replicate that productivity, because look at the other top players from that league who successfully made that transition. For one thing, the players who succeeded in the PL not only performed well in Portugal, but we're scouted and analysed exhaustively by professionals who felt confident to invest millions in the probability that they would thrive in the PL. If an English club bites Gyökeres, that's already much more validation of his ability to transfer his performances in Portugal to the PL. In the meantime, at the moment he looks great when up against defences that aren't quite as elite, that give him that modicum of extra time and space which just might make a difference to how prolific he can be.

What we also can't credibly argue is that player Y who is tearing it up in Portugal is obviously going to replicate that productivity, because look at the other top players from that league who successfully made that transition.
-----

Definitely. I don't really object to any of that. Regarding your comment, it was just the tone as regards the less competitive teams.

Regarding who makes it and who doesn't, it's really a question of each individual player's merits and how he fits with a particular manager, playing style and/or squad.

The PL is broadly considered the toughest league, but having experience in that league doesn't automatically mean you will do well at another.

I also think it really is pushing the envelope way too much to suggest - as others have done here - that it's any less of a step up to go to United from Brentford or Forest than from Sporting, PSV, Ajax or Benfica. It's even more ridiculous when one of the footballers Strikeforce labelled a 'top PL player' has never even hit 10 goals in a PL season.

I don't really see a problem with where the CF comes from. The problem for me is the real lack of quality in general in CFs around Europe and South America.

It's such a shame to me the game seems to have changed so much so that players like RVN, Drogba, Shevchenko, Van Basten, Inzaghi, who were pure goalscorer number 9s can't really exist anymore. Instead they need to press, bring others into play, work back. I wonder whether academies are even bothering to develop them. It all seems to be about developing passing midfielders. The classic 10 is dead too.

The focus of the attack seems to have moved to the wings and now the top scorers and superstars play out wide. Players who would traditionally play through the middle now work the channels.create space, hassle defenders and that will let wingers or midfielders score more goals. In fact, from what I can see many don't even want to play the CF role. Mbappe, Vinicius, Martinelli, Rashford, Salah. All of those guys would probably have been strikers in the past.

I haven't seen much of Gyokeres I must admit, but I look around Europe and don't really see much in terms of quality CFs. I'd like to think since INEOS came in and the change in structure we now have a scouting system capable of doing their job. So much so that we're not just going after a player simply because they're a big name, or suddenly hit the spotlight because the bloke in charge managed them yet nobody mentioned them once before that. I'd like to think that because the way we've been recruiting over the past decade I've had my doubts tbh and that's putting it mildly.

https://x.com/skysportspl/status/1853568793039016061?s=61&t=ncpdEcJLIN1zPASIYpgYDA

Berba 👏👏👏

Scores vs City 👏

comment by Robben Amorim (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
Scores vs City 👏
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's one helluva delayed stream you're watching on.

Everyone scores against City this season.

Now he has 2 goals. He’s the real deal

The white Lukaku.

Gyokaku