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Decent win in the end yesterday

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posted on 4/11/24

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not the issue. Onana's chance can happen to any team on any given day and the ball was dropped outside of the six yard box. It was just a very good header. You could argue Sonny doesn't do enough to stop the cross coming in in the first place, or at least make it hurried. Like I said though, it was a good passage of play and credit to Villa for that.

The subsequent corner though is where I take issue. Vicario is spending most of his time dancing around Rogers before the ball is dropped INSIDE the six yard box. Vic makes a decent save from the deflection but the very fact that the ball drops inside the six yard box first makes him culpable. Any keeper will say the six yard box is his area. Anything outside that is the responsibility of the others. He has to stop getting distracted by the dancing around him and focus on the ball. If, when he's coming out, he's obstructed, that's a free kick. The issue is that if he doesn't see space, he doesn't come at all. Frankly I don't care if he has to take out half his team. That's his area and he needs to be more commanding.

If you can't see the defensive issue at corners then we'll keep making the same mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch the Villa corner. Its Porro who flicks it on 3 or 4 yards ahead of the front post. That aint GK territory.

It quickly deflects off Bents and Vic makes a superb reaction save.

In this instance I do not see how Vic could have done anything different. You could argue that had the initial flick gone near post, then he was badly positioned to stop it because he was untangling himself from Rogers, but he's not chosing to tangle himself with Rogers, that's the ploy of the attacking side. Saw it when Stones scored that late goal @ Wolves, Sarr being bumped around by Silva until the last second.

In both cases, i feel its the defenders that need to be helping the keeper. The attackers are being left to manhandle the keeper all they want. For me, someone needs to be detailed to protect the keeper.

The mantra that anything in the 6 yard box is the keepers just does not ring true anymore.

For me, i'd want Bentacur at the front post. I'd have Udogie protecting the keeper from who ever is trying to block him. I'd also have Porro back post.

We were actually a bit unlucky in that the flick was from Porro, as if it was Torres, then Rogers was offside.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take your point on this. On second viewing, although it dropped in the six yard box, it probably wasn't Vic's territory. That said, I've definitely seen commanding keepers just smash through a bunch of players to punch those.

It's a combination of errors. We're not a big team and even those that are certainly aren't great with their heads. If we have those issues that makes it even more important to have a commanding keeper to deal with that shortfall. As it stands we have the worst of both worlds. A keeper weak in the air and a defence allergic to taking charge high balls.

What would be good to know is how many of the set piece goals we've conceded come in directly to the centre of the six yard box and how many require flick ons. I know I've seen plenty, like Everton last year, where the ball was dropped right in Vic's territory and he flapped at it under pressure and they scored. If we're missing the first man flick on's then you're right, that needs looking at.

It just annoys me that we keep seeing the same mistakes and the problem begins to multiply because every team than tries the same thing. The only reason we haven't conceded more yet is because teams seem to have forgotten our weaknesses, until now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This season Arsenals was pretty much middle, 6-8 yards out and really the responsibility of Romero losing Gabriel.

Villa obvs near post and a bit unlucky as stated.

I remember City (Ake) & Arsenal (Havertz) last season were near post, as was the other Arsenal one which was a PEH OG. Also the same as Villa yesterday except the near post flick went in.

I definitely think we are coping a lot better this season, although I agree it is far from secure. Defo room to improve but not quite the disaster that some are painting it to be!

posted on 4/11/24

Was really impressive some of our play yesterday and i think significantly we now have Villa on the ropes almost a bogey team to them now battering them twice.

Nick Montgomery the reason for the change in the set pieces.

The actual set piece was ok Vicario made a great save but the way he is faffing about is putting a target on us again in regards to defensive set pieces.

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not the issue. Onana's chance can happen to any team on any given day and the ball was dropped outside of the six yard box. It was just a very good header. You could argue Sonny doesn't do enough to stop the cross coming in in the first place, or at least make it hurried. Like I said though, it was a good passage of play and credit to Villa for that.

The subsequent corner though is where I take issue. Vicario is spending most of his time dancing around Rogers before the ball is dropped INSIDE the six yard box. Vic makes a decent save from the deflection but the very fact that the ball drops inside the six yard box first makes him culpable. Any keeper will say the six yard box is his area. Anything outside that is the responsibility of the others. He has to stop getting distracted by the dancing around him and focus on the ball. If, when he's coming out, he's obstructed, that's a free kick. The issue is that if he doesn't see space, he doesn't come at all. Frankly I don't care if he has to take out half his team. That's his area and he needs to be more commanding.

If you can't see the defensive issue at corners then we'll keep making the same mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch the Villa corner. Its Porro who flicks it on 3 or 4 yards ahead of the front post. That aint GK territory.

It quickly deflects off Bents and Vic makes a superb reaction save.

In this instance I do not see how Vic could have done anything different. You could argue that had the initial flick gone near post, then he was badly positioned to stop it because he was untangling himself from Rogers, but he's not chosing to tangle himself with Rogers, that's the ploy of the attacking side. Saw it when Stones scored that late goal @ Wolves, Sarr being bumped around by Silva until the last second.

In both cases, i feel its the defenders that need to be helping the keeper. The attackers are being left to manhandle the keeper all they want. For me, someone needs to be detailed to protect the keeper.

The mantra that anything in the 6 yard box is the keepers just does not ring true anymore.

For me, i'd want Bentacur at the front post. I'd have Udogie protecting the keeper from who ever is trying to block him. I'd also have Porro back post.

We were actually a bit unlucky in that the flick was from Porro, as if it was Torres, then Rogers was offside.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take your point on this. On second viewing, although it dropped in the six yard box, it probably wasn't Vic's territory. That said, I've definitely seen commanding keepers just smash through a bunch of players to punch those.

It's a combination of errors. We're not a big team and even those that are certainly aren't great with their heads. If we have those issues that makes it even more important to have a commanding keeper to deal with that shortfall. As it stands we have the worst of both worlds. A keeper weak in the air and a defence allergic to taking charge high balls.

What would be good to know is how many of the set piece goals we've conceded come in directly to the centre of the six yard box and how many require flick ons. I know I've seen plenty, like Everton last year, where the ball was dropped right in Vic's territory and he flapped at it under pressure and they scored. If we're missing the first man flick on's then you're right, that needs looking at.

It just annoys me that we keep seeing the same mistakes and the problem begins to multiply because every team than tries the same thing. The only reason we haven't conceded more yet is because teams seem to have forgotten our weaknesses, until now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This season Arsenals was pretty much middle, 6-8 yards out and really the responsibility of Romero losing Gabriel.

Villa obvs near post and a bit unlucky as stated.

I remember City (Ake) & Arsenal (Havertz) last season were near post, as was the other Arsenal one which was a PEH OG. Also the same as Villa yesterday except the near post flick went in.

I definitely think we are coping a lot better this season, although I agree it is far from secure. Defo room to improve but not quite the disaster that some are painting it to be!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then I think a lot of it comes from Vic's style. He flaps which raises anxiety. Even the ones he takes look awkward so that worry transmits across the back four, in the stands, the studio, everywhere. You could even argue that it's that anxiety, which is felt all around the ground when a corner is conceded, is a product of Vic's style, which then impacts how the likes of Porro approach defending them. Not letting Porro off the hook but fear can make you do all sorts of mad things. A calmer presence between the sticks and I guarantee we wouldn't be having issues at set pieces. We should have signed Raya when we had the chance but Levy being Levy didn't want to pull the trigger, I'm guessing because a man of his reputation will have wanted a wage way beyond Vic's. That's where I think we're seeing problems. These set piece issues can directly be linked to an unwillingness to buy proven talent, largely for wage reasons.

posted on 4/11/24

I disagree about set pieces too, we have been good this season despite being absolutely attrocious last season. We've only conceded twice as others have said, and the first was a foul from Gabriel on Romero.

Our xG conceded from set pieces has been pretty low this season as well.

I also don't agree with Strike's point about height. In some lineups it is true but the height of some our players playing at the weekend (taken from the internet):

Dragusin 6'3
Romero 6'1
Udogie 6'2
Bentancur 6'2
Kulusevski 6'1
Son 6'0
Solanke 6'2
Sarr 6'1
BJ 6'1

posted on 4/11/24

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 42 minutes ago
comment by Striketeam7 - staying humble (U18109)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 49 minutes ago
Ive watched Villa like 3 times this season now and theyve been quite poor every time. Vs Arsenal, Utd and now Spurs. You watch them turn up next Saturday though!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Massive CL hangovers for them - suspect it will be the same next weekend.

Emery has an insane Euro record, he won’t rotate and I fancy Villa might even go as far as the semis, but their league form will suffer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Cannot really fancy Villa to go much further than the group stages. First decent side will knock them out. They are a very limited outfit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They’ve beaten Bayern already and top the CL group. They will finish in the top 8 of that in my opinion and skip the first knockout, going straight into the last 16. They will then be seeded for that last 16 tie with the second leg at home - I can see them getting through that.

Worst case scenario for them I think is the Quarters - they would be a favourable draw away from the semis at that point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We want them to stay in. The longer they've got CL distractions the more they'll drop in the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Fridge, I will be astonished if Villa finish in front of Spurs. Anyway far to early to define any league position right now. By next March have a much better idea.

posted on 4/11/24

comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 2 hours, 43 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 22 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 hour, 39 minutes ago
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 minutes ago
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not the issue. Onana's chance can happen to any team on any given day and the ball was dropped outside of the six yard box. It was just a very good header. You could argue Sonny doesn't do enough to stop the cross coming in in the first place, or at least make it hurried. Like I said though, it was a good passage of play and credit to Villa for that.

The subsequent corner though is where I take issue. Vicario is spending most of his time dancing around Rogers before the ball is dropped INSIDE the six yard box. Vic makes a decent save from the deflection but the very fact that the ball drops inside the six yard box first makes him culpable. Any keeper will say the six yard box is his area. Anything outside that is the responsibility of the others. He has to stop getting distracted by the dancing around him and focus on the ball. If, when he's coming out, he's obstructed, that's a free kick. The issue is that if he doesn't see space, he doesn't come at all. Frankly I don't care if he has to take out half his team. That's his area and he needs to be more commanding.

If you can't see the defensive issue at corners then we'll keep making the same mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch the Villa corner. Its Porro who flicks it on 3 or 4 yards ahead of the front post. That aint GK territory.

It quickly deflects off Bents and Vic makes a superb reaction save.

In this instance I do not see how Vic could have done anything different. You could argue that had the initial flick gone near post, then he was badly positioned to stop it because he was untangling himself from Rogers, but he's not chosing to tangle himself with Rogers, that's the ploy of the attacking side. Saw it when Stones scored that late goal @ Wolves, Sarr being bumped around by Silva until the last second.

In both cases, i feel its the defenders that need to be helping the keeper. The attackers are being left to manhandle the keeper all they want. For me, someone needs to be detailed to protect the keeper.

The mantra that anything in the 6 yard box is the keepers just does not ring true anymore.

For me, i'd want Bentacur at the front post. I'd have Udogie protecting the keeper from who ever is trying to block him. I'd also have Porro back post.

We were actually a bit unlucky in that the flick was from Porro, as if it was Torres, then Rogers was offside.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I take your point on this. On second viewing, although it dropped in the six yard box, it probably wasn't Vic's territory. That said, I've definitely seen commanding keepers just smash through a bunch of players to punch those.

It's a combination of errors. We're not a big team and even those that are certainly aren't great with their heads. If we have those issues that makes it even more important to have a commanding keeper to deal with that shortfall. As it stands we have the worst of both worlds. A keeper weak in the air and a defence allergic to taking charge high balls.

What would be good to know is how many of the set piece goals we've conceded come in directly to the centre of the six yard box and how many require flick ons. I know I've seen plenty, like Everton last year, where the ball was dropped right in Vic's territory and he flapped at it under pressure and they scored. If we're missing the first man flick on's then you're right, that needs looking at.

It just annoys me that we keep seeing the same mistakes and the problem begins to multiply because every team than tries the same thing. The only reason we haven't conceded more yet is because teams seem to have forgotten our weaknesses, until now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This season Arsenals was pretty much middle, 6-8 yards out and really the responsibility of Romero losing Gabriel.

Villa obvs near post and a bit unlucky as stated.

I remember City (Ake) & Arsenal (Havertz) last season were near post, as was the other Arsenal one which was a PEH OG. Also the same as Villa yesterday except the near post flick went in.

I definitely think we are coping a lot better this season, although I agree it is far from secure. Defo room to improve but not quite the disaster that some are painting it to be!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then I think a lot of it comes from Vic's style. He flaps which raises anxiety. Even the ones he takes look awkward so that worry transmits across the back four, in the stands, the studio, everywhere. You could even argue that it's that anxiety, which is felt all around the ground when a corner is conceded, is a product of Vic's style, which then impacts how the likes of Porro approach defending them. Not letting Porro off the hook but fear can make you do all sorts of mad things. A calmer presence between the sticks and I guarantee we wouldn't be having issues at set pieces. We should have signed Raya when we had the chance but Levy being Levy didn't want to pull the trigger, I'm guessing because a man of his reputation will have wanted a wage way beyond Vic's. That's where I think we're seeing problems. These set piece issues can directly be linked to an unwillingness to buy proven talent, largely for wage reasons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I didnt see too much wrong with that Villa goal other than the positioning of some players.

If you pause at the moment of flick on then you could argue that Porro should have been much closer to Torres, but if he had then he'd have missed the ball altogether. If he had then BJ was probably on the end of it and clearing it easily, failing that, Solanke behind him. Villa's 2nd near post guy is well martialled by BJ/Sarr/Dom and isnt getting anywhere near. It's the fact that Porro's glancing header is goalwards that causes chaos so being hyper-critical, his contact needed to be directed better, but after that contact the chaos is no ones fault really and certainly not Vicario's.

Its lucky for them. They had 1 player in a dangerous area and after a flick, a ricochet, and a point blank reflex save by the GK it lands at his feet.

comment by Spurtle (U1608)

posted on 4/11/24

comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 3 hours, 25 minutes ago
I disagree about set pieces too, we have been good this season despite being absolutely attrocious last season. We've only conceded twice as others have said, and the first was a foul from Gabriel on Romero.

Our xG conceded from set pieces has been pretty low this season as well.

I also don't agree with Strike's point about height. In some lineups it is true but the height of some our players playing at the weekend (taken from the internet):

Dragusin 6'3
Romero 6'1
Udogie 6'2
Bentancur 6'2
Kulusevski 6'1
Son 6'0
Solanke 6'2
Sarr 6'1
BJ 6'1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Udogie 6'2? That doesn't seem right unless he's grown a bit in recent times.

posted on 4/11/24

Although there have been plenty of times in the last year that our set piece defending/goalkeeping has been shocking Villas goal was more bad luck than anything else.

Had Porro not got his head to it the corner would have been easily dealt with but anybody who has defended corners/freekicks knows that in the heat of the moment you get whatever you can on the ball rather than letting it go past and hoping for the best.

Just one of those things and fair play to the team for rising above it so impressively in the second half.

We may chuck in some head scratching performances like the Brighton second half and Palace game but in general I really like most of what I'm watching this season.

posted on 4/11/24

comment by sandy, golden boot winner fa cup 1901 (U20567)
posted 11 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by PhilspursFGR (U3278)
posted 2 minutes ago
I think our issue with corners is being overstated. That was our second goal conceded from a set piece this season, and it was just unlucky that it bounced the wrong way off the top of Porro's head. Could have happened to any team.

Annoying that if we could've turned just one of our silly losses into a win we'd be sat in third right now, but at least we're still well in touch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe, but I never, or very rarely see a Spurs head to the ball first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Sandy is right about this corners problem.
I doubt your low stat on goals conceded from corners and set pieces.
But of course Sandy is wrong about Romero.....just his usual prejudice.

posted on 4/11/24

Sandy..Romero was playing injured from the get go.

posted on 4/11/24

This was my half-time comment:

Why on earth Spurs cannot defend their goal keeper on corners?
There's Rogers bullying Vicario and nobody steps in to defend Vicario. The ref has to have a word.
This is an obvious management problem. And if the Aussie manager thinks its not important, then he should look at the stats of Spurs opponents scoring goals from corners and set pieces.
FFS, Dragusin should be in there bullying Rodgers. And its Aussieglue that should be ordering him to do it!

posted on 4/11/24

To be fair, I thought Dragusin had a very good game.
And yes, Ange was right to take Son off early as a precaution... he is still a force for the team and we don't want to be without him again.
And Maddison's free kick goal was a terrific way to protest being benched.

posted on 4/11/24

Here's a question for the statistics keepers........

Have Spurs scored from any of their corners this season?

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