Same with mainoo. Both been awful since returning.

Needs to be sold

Mainoo was good against Everton.

Yes Martinez is in a poor bit of form, but we know what he’s capable of so it’s down to him to sort it out.

I think we have good completion for the CB positions now, shame we can’t keep Shaw fit for the lcb spot.

Why he was marking Milenkovic yesterday for the first goal beggars belief

comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 19 minutes ago
Same with mainoo. Both been awful since returning.
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Huh? He's literally just returned from injury, was decent against Everton and I thought he had a decent game again yesterday.

He's also just a kid. When did we suddenly starting going in on kids who are years away from their peak years? Players of his age are not supposed to putting in top performances week in week out.

As for Martinez, he's been a real mixed bag since the injury, probably not helped by our defensive woes generally as well as being deployed alongside different players, and being deployed in the last several months as a CB, a LB and now LCB.

I've said it before but I'd rather see him repositioned as a CDM/CM and then go and get someone more athletic and powerful as the CB/LCB.

comment by Glen Bulb (U1449)
posted 9 minutes ago
Why he was marking Milenkovic yesterday for the first goal beggars belief
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He wasn't marking anyone. That's the nature of zonal marking and why I have never been a fan personally.

Man for man marking at set pieces always for me. Big players on their big players etc.

Never once heard a convincing argument for why zonal is supposedly better.

On Mainoo, it is the same as I said about Rashford about six years ago. He isn’t as good as some of our fans think.

On Martinez. His one asset that he did have was quick forward accurate passing.

Instead he has developed this frustrating habit that befalls most of our players in slowing it down or just passing it to the opposition.

Garnacho and Dalot made so many good runs yesterday and he didn’t see most of them.

I don’t see it with Martinez at all. Just an overhyped Marcos Rojo.

I think the general rule of thumb is that whatever player we sign or bring through they will get worse after a period of exposure to the first team.

Don't think he's as good as what some fans said he was. However we have far bigger issues to fix first.

fack off carra

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 48 minutes ago
On Mainoo, it is the same as I said about Rashford about six years ago. He isn’t as good as some of our fans think.
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Whilst that might be the case right now, the kid is 19 years old. It’s no age at all.

I’m not suggesting that he’ll reach the levels of the following, because very, very few do; but compare him to the likes of even Scholesy and Carrick, who were recognised as talents relatively early in their careers, and Kobbie is ahead of even that curve.

How many as impressive CMs are there under the age of twenty in world football right now? Lewis, Lavia, Gavi, Neves? Can’t think of any more off the top of my head.

Whilst that might be the case right now, the kid is 19 years old. It’s no age at all.

.................

This is very true and I am not suggesting he is the finished article right now. Merely that a lot of our fans are massively over rating him.

Too many of our fans are reactionary and overrate average players

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
Whilst that might be the case right now, the kid is 19 years old. It’s no age at all.

.................

This is very true and I am not suggesting he is the finished article right now. Merely that a lot of our fans are massively over rating him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 48 minutes ago
On Mainoo, it is the same as I said about Rashford about six years ago. He isn’t as good as some of our fans think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst that might be the case right now, the kid is 19 years old. It’s no age at all.

I’m not suggesting that he’ll reach the levels of the following, because very, very few do; but compare him to the likes of even Scholesy and Carrick, who were recognised as talents relatively early in their careers, and Kobbie is ahead of even that curve.

How many as impressive CMs are there under the age of twenty in world football right now? Lewis, Lavia, Gavi, Neves? Can’t think of any more off the top of my head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He doesn’t have the passing range or vision to fit with those you’ve mentioned. I’m with VC I just don’t think he’s that good (atleast not up to the massive hype). Sure he’s been fresh air coming in and doing well last season, he’s been injured which hasn’t helped at all. But it was my fear that he’d been talked up unreasonably far, and it would harm his development, but football is football. Hopefully with more game time we’ll see levels like last season.

Martinez has often been overhyped. Varane made him look better defensively imo. Now that we don’t have another defender of that quality he’s getting found out.

Varane was our best CB easily

comment by Slack Alice (U9489)
posted 1 minute ago
Varane was our best CB easily
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, since prime Rio & Vidic

comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 48 minutes ago
On Mainoo, it is the same as I said about Rashford about six years ago. He isn’t as good as some of our fans think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst that might be the case right now, the kid is 19 years old. It’s no age at all.

I’m not suggesting that he’ll reach the levels of the following, because very, very few do; but compare him to the likes of even Scholesy and Carrick, who were recognised as talents relatively early in their careers, and Kobbie is ahead of even that curve.

How many as impressive CMs are there under the age of twenty in world football right now? Lewis, Lavia, Gavi, Neves? Can’t think of any more off the top of my head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He doesn’t have the passing range or vision to fit with those you’ve mentioned. I’m with VC I just don’t think he’s that good (atleast not up to the massive hype). Sure he’s been fresh air coming in and doing well last season, he’s been injured which hasn’t helped at all. But it was my fear that he’d been talked up unreasonably far, and it would harm his development, but football is football. Hopefully with more game time we’ll see levels like last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn’t directly comparing their attributes; just where they were in their development at his age.

Neither Scholes nor Carrick had great passing range at Kobbie’s age either btw.

comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Baz tard - ineos your face (U19119)
posted 1 hour, 1 minute ago
comment by RRRU-ben a-moo-REENG (U17054)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 48 minutes ago
On Mainoo, it is the same as I said about Rashford about six years ago. He isn’t as good as some of our fans think.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst that might be the case right now, the kid is 19 years old. It’s no age at all.

I’m not suggesting that he’ll reach the levels of the following, because very, very few do; but compare him to the likes of even Scholesy and Carrick, who were recognised as talents relatively early in their careers, and Kobbie is ahead of even that curve.

How many as impressive CMs are there under the age of twenty in world football right now? Lewis, Lavia, Gavi, Neves? Can’t think of any more off the top of my head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He doesn’t have the passing range or vision to fit with those you’ve mentioned. I’m with VC I just don’t think he’s that good (atleast not up to the massive hype). Sure he’s been fresh air coming in and doing well last season, he’s been injured which hasn’t helped at all. But it was my fear that he’d been talked up unreasonably far, and it would harm his development, but football is football. Hopefully with more game time we’ll see levels like last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn’t directly comparing their attributes; just where they were in their development at his age.

Neither Scholes nor Carrick had great passing range at Kobbie’s age either btw.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough

Both Scholes and Carrick were playing far further forward earlier on in their career so you weren’t really seeing their passing range and only played deeper later on. Mainoo I recall was also playing further forward in the youth set ups but since breaking into the first team has started far deeper than those 2.

Mainoo seems quite different to both, the way he keeps hold of the ball using the sole of his feet you can see futsal has had a huge impact on his style.

comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 34 minutes ago
comment by Slack Alice (U9489)
posted 1 minute ago
Varane was our best CB easily
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, since prime Rio & Vidic
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When fit he was our best box defender. He was our worst CB with the ball at his feet, which many of our fan base gave him a free pass for, presumably because they were so invested in hating all the others that they were crying out for someone to contrast them with.

comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 46 minutes ago
Both Scholes and Carrick were playing far further forward earlier on in their career so you weren’t really seeing their passing range and only played deeper later on. Mainoo I recall was also playing further forward in the youth set ups but since breaking into the first team has started far deeper than those 2.

Mainoo seems quite different to both, the way he keeps hold of the ball using the sole of his feet you can see futsal has had a huge impact on his style.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scholes certainly was. He was playing as a second striker before moving to eight, then dropping further back later in his career.

Carrick was already playing at CM/DM at West Ham I think. They had Joe Cole playing higher up behind Di Canio and Defoe?