comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 5 minutes ago
"With Gakpo's goal he could have stayed on his feet"

Not sure I agree with this, in full speed De Ligt is trying to make up ground and he can't just stop and turn on a 6 pence, he's a big lad.
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Yeah. It's one of those - if Gakpo decides to take it with his left foot and De Ligt doesn't go full stretch to block it, he'd also get criticised.
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I think as a defender there, you keep them on the outside on the tight angle. It has to be some finish to beat the keeper from that kind of angle. Once he cuts back inside be opens up the whole of the goal for himself.
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Would have to look again but I think the danger from Gakpo's left foot would've been the ball across goal rather than a shot. In which case, from that position, I think you've got to do what you have to do to get across and stop it, and the risk of the attacker chopping back inside.

Would just put it down to really good play from Gakpo tbh - even afterwards it's an excellent finish.
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There was no-one within 12 yards of the goal when he checked back onto his right foot.

That said, I do agree that it was a class bit of play from Gakpo. I don't think that it was a huge mistake from De Ligt and really he was doing his best to make up for Ugarte's mistake. Which is why I initially said that he could have stayed on his feet rather than he should. When you are trying to cover someone's mistake like that, things happen quickly and he don't always have the same calrity of thought.

comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 5 minutes ago
"With Gakpo's goal he could have stayed on his feet"

Not sure I agree with this, in full speed De Ligt is trying to make up ground and he can't just stop and turn on a 6 pence, he's a big lad.
----------------
Yeah. It's one of those - if Gakpo decides to take it with his left foot and De Ligt doesn't go full stretch to block it, he'd also get criticised.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think as a defender there, you keep them on the outside on the tight angle. It has to be some finish to beat the keeper from that kind of angle. Once he cuts back inside be opens up the whole of the goal for himself.
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Would have to look again but I think the danger from Gakpo's left foot would've been the ball across goal rather than a shot. In which case, from that position, I think you've got to do what you have to do to get across and stop it, and the risk of the attacker chopping back inside.

Would just put it down to really good play from Gakpo tbh - even afterwards it's an excellent finish.
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I'd agree with this, he was in a position where as a defender you have to gamble one way or the other.

comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 29 minutes ago
"With Gakpo's goal he could have stayed on his feet"

Not sure I agree with this, in full speed De Ligt is trying to make up ground and he can't just stop and turn on a 6 pence, he's a big lad.
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Yeah. It's one of those - if Gakpo decides to take it with his left foot and De Ligt doesn't go full stretch to block it, he'd also get criticised.
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Although I do not think he played bad, I also don't agree with this take. Gakpo is not left footed. If he took a shot with his left foot from that angle that beats our keeper, any one that understands football would agree nothing to do with the defender.

Even whilst running back, his first thought should have been do not let him cut in on his right. As I said earlier though, a great piece of skill.

Wow, we are really giving Gapko's goal the full analysis............

There was no-one within 12 yards of the goal when he checked back onto his right foot.
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But i don't blame De Ligt for not knowing that

Having rewatched the goal just now, truth is, Gakpo has just done De Ligt with the feint.

Gakpo is awful... De Ligt getting done by him says everything. De Ligt must go.

It was poor defending, Gakpo is good at that but you’re taught to stay on your feet there when you’re about 8

I am sure every defender in the world has been caught off their feet - remember Rio when we beat City 4-3 with Owen's last minute goal?
Mistakes happen in the game.
In response to the OP, I don't think De Ligt is a specifically weak link amongst our CBs - his performances over this season don't suggest that so far.
I'm not bothered about whether other clubs wanted him or not - as long as he plays well for us, and I like to think he will improve.
I think some folk would prefer that he just constantly struggled, if only to prove themselves right

Right, watched it back in slow mo about five times.

De Ligt is tight to his man, and, unlike Ugarte who has abandoned his position given the defence hasn’t reset and he’s in for Mazraoui, he’s positioned perfectly.

He actually spots the pass early and starts moving in decent time, but by the time Gakpo receives the ball, De Ligt is two or three yards plus significant momentum behind him.

He actually does well to get anywhere near Gakpo (and he doesn’t even get that close) whose first touch is superb. From De Ligt’s perspective, Gakpo is most likely going to pass the ball straight across the six yard box, and he’s made a split second decision to try to block it. He can’t know where the other Liverpool forwards are, nor can he know that neither Ugarte (who he should be able to see on his left shoulder as he starts after Gakpo) nor Maguire will make it across if Gakpo does cut back. (And Ugarte is very, very close to doing so.)

The bottom line is that it’s an exceptional bit of skill by Gakpo. Great run, first touch and cut back, and then he sorts his feet out and gets an excellent strike away quickly. It’s a weird one to go after a CB for.

If he stays on his feet, rather than flinging himself at a desperate recovery block, Gakpo can shoot or he even has time to look up and pass the ball across or cut it back to a teammate. I don’t see how staying on his feet two yards behind Gakpo helps, at all.

Don’t agree at all with that appraisal tbh. Gakpo does have a great first touch but I can count on one hand tye amount of times he has gone on the outside.

As said, but of carbon copy vs Leicester really. Of course goalposts is going to come inside to his right, his left is for standing on.

He’ll 100% have been given a video on Gakpo by Utd analytics team too.

No need to go to ground either way.

Goalposts?? Gakpo*

I’ve just rewatched it myself and that is not exceptional skill by Gakpo in anyway, shape or form. It’s a bog standard drop of the shoulder.

Agree to disagree on this one I reckon.

comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
De Ligt isn't terrible but he's also not been good enough for Juventus or Bayern to want to hold on to him.

Those warning signs were there. As United aim to progress he's a squad player.
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Firstly, he was bought by United for something more like a squad player price than a long-term first choice price (e.g. we paid about 50% more for Leny Yoro). Secondly, for all the narrative that he failed at Juventus and Bayern, he moved from Italy to Germany for a big fee (similar to what Juve paid Ajax), which suggests that Bayern saw him as a valuable addition to their squad based on his career to date. Both clubs were going through a period of instability / changes in manager and system while he was on their books, and it sometimes happens that good players are not the ideal fit in a different system. Nevertheless, De Ligt was usually Kompany's first choice last season when he was fit to play.

I think sometimes you need to give credit to the attacker. It’s good play by Gakpo and an even better finish.

https://x.com/TheEuropeanLad/status/1875960070678388929

To play Devil's advocate, here's a pretty similar position at the other end of the pitch which Van Dijk was rightly praised for. It was great defending. But if Dalot decides to check back on his right, does he not end up in the exact same position as De Ligt did?

Couldn't find more than a screenshot, so I take the point that Dalot was probably running at greater speed and therefore less likely to cut back. And its also about knowing your opponent - will take Hoody's word for it that Gakpo doesnt use his left much. But still, I find it hard to be overly critical of a defender in that kind of situation.

Point is, ultimately, I think De Ligt had an alright game yesterday.

I thought about bringing that up myself but two things are different.

VVD is having to cover for both Trent and Konate.

He won the ball after waiting for him to cross.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 2 minutes ago
I thought about bringing that up myself but two things are different.

VVD is having to cover for both Trent and Konate.

He won the ball after waiting for him to cross.
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But De Ligt is having to recover for Ugarte (who has slotted in for Mazraoui before going AWOL).

Gakpo isn’t De Ligt’s man; he has to drop his man and try (desperately, because he’s way behind Gakpo) to come across to get a challenge in.

I can’t see how he can possibly get to Gakpo in time whilst staying on his feet, unless he’s sure that a forward who is already ahead of him is going to decide that he has to cut back rather than playing a pass across the box.

Funnily enough, if one of Liverpool’s other forwards had seen Gakpo’s run and made a burst to the edge of the six yard box (something De Ligt can’t know anything about, but if I were him, I’d also be assuming), Gakpo looks at that, sees a tap in, squares the ball, and then we’re talking about a superb last ditch recovery by De Ligt.

Like I said, agree to disagree, but I feel it was poor defending and he was taken out of the game by a very simple bit of skill.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 23 minutes ago
I’ve just rewatched it myself and that is not exceptional skill by Gakpo in anyway, shape or form. It’s a bog standard drop of the shoulder.

Agree to disagree on this one I reckon.
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We might have to agree to disagree, but I think you’re being very harsh on both Gakpo, who does absolutely brilliantly in literally everything he does from spotting the opportunity all the way to his finish, and De Ligt.

The finish was great, but my eldest daughter can drop a shoulder. It’s easy.

Digressing a bit but if Trent had defended like that I feel the appraisal by many would be very different indeed.

comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 2 hours, 17 minutes ago
It was poor defending, Gakpo is good at that but you’re taught to stay on your feet there when you’re about 8
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Yep. And always to keep the attacker on their weak foot. This applies especially when the attacker has no option other than to shoot from a tight angle.

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 2 hours, 17 minutes ago
It was poor defending, Gakpo is good at that but you’re taught to stay on your feet there when you’re about 8
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Yep. And always to keep the attacker on their weak foot. This applies especially when the attacker has no option other than to shoot from a tight angle.
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But MDL couldn't know that Gakpo had no options if shown onto his left foot. As Rosso has pointed out, there could well have been a cut-back across the goal available to him, which may have resulted in an easier scoring chance than the one Gakpo manufactured by checking back onto his right foot. It wasn't outstanding defending, but having been caught on the back foot by the combination of Ugarte's error and Mac Allister's superb pass, it would have required pretty incredible speed and balance to get to a position where De Ligt could both make up the ground to cut out a dangerous cut-back while also being able to react to the change in direction. Maybe an elite, rapid and agile defender like prime Varane manages to do that. I think most have to make a choice there, and then it comes down to luck. If Salah makes a run across the goal, maybe we're praising De Ligt today for preventing a certain goal. But overall, I think if Mainoo slipped in that pass and Fernandes had sat down a defender before finishing like that, we'd see it as a really high quality goal, not as a gift from a clown defence.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 5 hours, 53 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - keepy up arbiter. Don’t talk to me unless you can do ten (U6374)
posted 2 hours, 17 minutes ago
It was poor defending, Gakpo is good at that but you’re taught to stay on your feet there when you’re about 8
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Yep. And always to keep the attacker on their weak foot. This applies especially when the attacker has no option other than to shoot from a tight angle.
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But MDL couldn't know that Gakpo had no options if shown onto his left foot. As Rosso has pointed out, there could well have been a cut-back across the goal available to him, which may have resulted in an easier scoring chance than the one Gakpo manufactured by checking back onto his right foot. It wasn't outstanding defending, but having been caught on the back foot by the combination of Ugarte's error and Mac Allister's superb pass, it would have required pretty incredible speed and balance to get to a position where De Ligt could both make up the ground to cut out a dangerous cut-back while also being able to react to the change in direction. Maybe an elite, rapid and agile defender like prime Varane manages to do that. I think most have to make a choice there, and then it comes down to luck. If Salah makes a run across the goal, maybe we're praising De Ligt today for preventing a certain goal. But overall, I think if Mainoo slipped in that pass and Fernandes had sat down a defender before finishing like that, we'd see it as a really high quality goal, not as a gift from a clown defence.
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Whether De Ligt knew if there was anyone in the box for Liverpool is irrelevant. Gakpo was on a tightt angle on his weak foot. He either had to find a great finish or put a cross in and beat the defenders and keeper. De Ligt had a chance to block any such cross if he had stayed on his feet. As soon as Gakpo checked back he had the full goal to aim at on his stronger foot, as well as the option to cross/pull the ball back if he wanted to. The percentage play from De Ligt was to stay on his feet, keep Gakpo on his weaker foot at the tighter angle and try to block the shot or cross, in the knowledge that his keeper and defenders might be able to cover him if he failed.

But as I've said a couple of times, I don't think it was a huge error. Especially when the move happened so quickly and he was trying to cover for Ugarte's mistake