The difference with football/sport and manyother businesses is brand loyalty.
It's very very hard if not impossible to influence brand loyalty in football, ie customers don't switch from one brand (club) to another that easily.
Bearing this in mind, clubs should be looking to ensure that young fans are hooked on their brand as soon as possible as once they have chosen their brand it will be very hard to influence them to switch to your brand.
It also means that some clubs can get 'lazy' in retaining their customers/supporters knowing that their propensity to support will remain really high however they are treated.
don’t give players stupid contracts just because they might leave
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thing is cas we do.
Dont listen to the bates spin
Bromby would only come for a four year deal.
At 29 it was utter madness and i said it at the time and look whats happened, been a complet waste of money.
What about obrien, went and talked to cardiff and said unless we matched their offer he was off.
We gave and look at the mess now, stuck with a donkey on big money.
And losing players who are worth a transfer fee for nothing aint good business.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
And am going to pull you up on your ftse thing.
Yes alot are based away from this country to avoid as much tax as possible, but we know who owns them because they are public listed companies.
Leeds arent held offshore for tax reasons and you know they are not.
YOu cant compare FTSE companies to Leeds United
Jonty, your right in some respects but kids now do change based on success or peer pressure. Others will stick to a club loyally due to upbringing to the Leeds way
LIW, or I listen to your spin? Does Ferguson get every transfer right. Do not other clubs lose players on free transfers? Don't get me wrong I understand what your saying but what about other signings that have been succesful. Why always bring up the negative?
Cas
You said we dont give in to players
Am just saying thats not true.
Am I right or not.
I actually think somethimes you have to give in, or put it another way accommodate certain players, thats the hard part, making sure you get that right
But, who's choice is it to give in. SG or Bates? I believe it is SG who will have a say on how much he thinks player is worth then Harvey does the rest.
Taking O'Brien you mention Cardiff so we weren't the only ones interested! As for some of those who have left of free's maybe I am wrong, but it would be interesting to know what they were asking? If it's true Kilkenny was wanting to more than double his salary then I'm glad he's gone as he wasn't worth it.
I like the fact we are now run as a business and don’t give players stupid contracts
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Youve dodged the question, do you think we dont give in and give players stupid contracts.
Mccartney, another player we give too much money too.
Supporters will generally be UK based fans...customers
will be foreign based...this division of fans will be to the
detriment of football in this country, in my opinion.
Customers will go for the most successful in the PL and
will further dilute the competition...monies earnt
abroad my clubs through tv rights will further alienate
clubs not in the top 5/6 of PL...the margins further
widened financially.
Those clubs are selfish but shortsighted only seeing
their own greed...forgetting they need opposition to
play...what's the point in keep beating teams that cant
keep equal in status.
So you could get to a point where the customers
[overseas] are more catered for in terms of winning
trophies and prestige, visiting venues of finals than
the supporters of clubs outside the top 3/4 in the UK.
Thus creating a two tier football hierarchy which is
against the definition of a competitive league.
Cas, the ability of media to help determine young fans allegienaces is exactly why Leeds should be doing more than in it to attract young fans - because we don't get the media coverage that top Prem teams get and these are the ones that are fashionable and we're up against in terms of popularity stakes whilst we're also up against other local teams in the price stakes.
Brillant post njs
Just what I think.
I dont class all these far east people has fans
LIW, you pick up on one thing in my topic.
Well the answer is no. O'Brien is on £11k (quoted) this is not giving in as was premiership player. You are right he has been disappointing since signing but that was the managers choice of player.
McCartney, not sure what we were paying so cannot answer this. Bet it wasn't his full salary!!
Bromby, a 4 year contract is not giving in if you think he can contribute over that period. Again this is a managers choice.
Over to you as I'm sure you'll come back to this rather than the spirit of my topic
Thanks for all the great responses to the debate. If njs' response was your thought LIW why did you just pick me up on small points (although you do sometimes have good points ) and not write that yourself?
We're both. I'm a supporter of my team and I always will be, but when I turn up to Elland Road, I'm also a customer. Therefore, I don't expect to be insulted by the owner.
If I can't afford to go to ER (which with these prices I can't that often) then I'm not a customer, but I'll still be a supporter.
The thing is, as Jonty has said, the club isn't attracting new supporters/customers to the ground. With half the ground no concessions, what does that do to get kids to support Leeds? The only way a kid gets hooked on a football team is actually going to a game. The club make it impossible for parents to take their children with these prices and we're losing a new generation of fans.
For example, if your father is Leeds fans, chances are they'll be your team too, but unless you actually go to a game, you don't become properly hooked on the team.
If you want to take your kid to their first game and you live near Leeds, would you choose Leeds where you will either have to pay full whack for you and your kid, or have to buy a membership to get in teh family stand, or go to one of teh other local clubs who might do kids for a quid or a fiver or whatever?
Once they have gone to their first game will be very hard to get them to swicth to you afterwards.
10k+ empty seats each home game on average are 10k+ missed opportunities.
If have less fans in at higher prices is best then airlines would never cancel their half full flights, cinemas wouldn't offer cheaper tickets during quiet periods etc.
Take this scenario:
It's any match. The North and South stands are sold out. Someone decides they want to take their kid to a football game. They look at the prices left. They don't have a membership so can't go in the family stand, and the only tickets left are £34 no concession. They simply wouldn't bother or would just go to another club.
Cas
Your missing my point, to be successfull you have to give in or accommodate certain players at certain times.
Obrien wouldnt have come unless we matched cardiff offer which was without doubt a year too long, we gave in .
Bromby said he would only come if we gave him a four year deal, it was giving in
And come on Bromby hasnt been value for money, hardly played for 2 years.
Am not picking on anything, your saying the club doesnt give in, when clearly it has with certain players.
Like i say i think you have to sometimes, but think the club got it wrong on this one
As a season ticket holder I have bought family stand tickets for a work colleague and his son on a few occasions. Maybe this is a scheme the fans can do for each other?
Maybe this is a scheme the fans can do for each other?
--
Why should people have to resort to that? The club should be encouraging the fans to come, not restricting them to borrowing tickets from friends.
NJS
Its just how i feel too about these rent a fans in the far east.
If it happens where clubs can sell their rights abroad on their own, say good bye to a competitive league
Completely agree with Best Fans.
The problem with concessions being all round the ground, I agree with family stand concept, is it will be and was abused in the past.
Why and how can it be abused.
If your talking about people buying kids tickets and going in as adults, thats what the stewards are checking for at the turnstiles.
I dont get what you mean
LIW, I know for a fact it was abused previously. There is how many stewards to a turnstile?
But I perfer the family stand concept, but this doesn't mean I agree that you need a membership to get a ticket. If you are a member maybe it should be £20 adult and £5 (under 12) and £10 (under 16) with a non member paying full for adult (as per other parts of ground) with kids the same????
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Page 1 of 2
posted on 14/10/11
The difference with football/sport and manyother businesses is brand loyalty.
It's very very hard if not impossible to influence brand loyalty in football, ie customers don't switch from one brand (club) to another that easily.
Bearing this in mind, clubs should be looking to ensure that young fans are hooked on their brand as soon as possible as once they have chosen their brand it will be very hard to influence them to switch to your brand.
It also means that some clubs can get 'lazy' in retaining their customers/supporters knowing that their propensity to support will remain really high however they are treated.
posted on 14/10/11
don’t give players stupid contracts just because they might leave
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thing is cas we do.
Dont listen to the bates spin
Bromby would only come for a four year deal.
At 29 it was utter madness and i said it at the time and look whats happened, been a complet waste of money.
What about obrien, went and talked to cardiff and said unless we matched their offer he was off.
We gave and look at the mess now, stuck with a donkey on big money.
And losing players who are worth a transfer fee for nothing aint good business.
posted on 14/10/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 14/10/11
And am going to pull you up on your ftse thing.
Yes alot are based away from this country to avoid as much tax as possible, but we know who owns them because they are public listed companies.
Leeds arent held offshore for tax reasons and you know they are not.
YOu cant compare FTSE companies to Leeds United
posted on 14/10/11
Jonty, your right in some respects but kids now do change based on success or peer pressure. Others will stick to a club loyally due to upbringing to the Leeds way
LIW, or I listen to your spin? Does Ferguson get every transfer right. Do not other clubs lose players on free transfers? Don't get me wrong I understand what your saying but what about other signings that have been succesful. Why always bring up the negative?
posted on 14/10/11
Cas
You said we dont give in to players
Am just saying thats not true.
Am I right or not.
I actually think somethimes you have to give in, or put it another way accommodate certain players, thats the hard part, making sure you get that right
posted on 14/10/11
But, who's choice is it to give in. SG or Bates? I believe it is SG who will have a say on how much he thinks player is worth then Harvey does the rest.
Taking O'Brien you mention Cardiff so we weren't the only ones interested! As for some of those who have left of free's maybe I am wrong, but it would be interesting to know what they were asking? If it's true Kilkenny was wanting to more than double his salary then I'm glad he's gone as he wasn't worth it.
posted on 14/10/11
I like the fact we are now run as a business and don’t give players stupid contracts
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Youve dodged the question, do you think we dont give in and give players stupid contracts.
Mccartney, another player we give too much money too.
posted on 14/10/11
Supporters will generally be UK based fans...customers
will be foreign based...this division of fans will be to the
detriment of football in this country, in my opinion.
Customers will go for the most successful in the PL and
will further dilute the competition...monies earnt
abroad my clubs through tv rights will further alienate
clubs not in the top 5/6 of PL...the margins further
widened financially.
Those clubs are selfish but shortsighted only seeing
their own greed...forgetting they need opposition to
play...what's the point in keep beating teams that cant
keep equal in status.
So you could get to a point where the customers
[overseas] are more catered for in terms of winning
trophies and prestige, visiting venues of finals than
the supporters of clubs outside the top 3/4 in the UK.
Thus creating a two tier football hierarchy which is
against the definition of a competitive league.
posted on 14/10/11
Cas, the ability of media to help determine young fans allegienaces is exactly why Leeds should be doing more than in it to attract young fans - because we don't get the media coverage that top Prem teams get and these are the ones that are fashionable and we're up against in terms of popularity stakes whilst we're also up against other local teams in the price stakes.
posted on 14/10/11
Brillant post njs
Just what I think.
I dont class all these far east people has fans
posted on 14/10/11
LIW, you pick up on one thing in my topic.
Well the answer is no. O'Brien is on £11k (quoted) this is not giving in as was premiership player. You are right he has been disappointing since signing but that was the managers choice of player.
McCartney, not sure what we were paying so cannot answer this. Bet it wasn't his full salary!!
Bromby, a 4 year contract is not giving in if you think he can contribute over that period. Again this is a managers choice.
Over to you as I'm sure you'll come back to this rather than the spirit of my topic
posted on 14/10/11
Thanks for all the great responses to the debate. If njs' response was your thought LIW why did you just pick me up on small points (although you do sometimes have good points ) and not write that yourself?
posted on 14/10/11
We're both. I'm a supporter of my team and I always will be, but when I turn up to Elland Road, I'm also a customer. Therefore, I don't expect to be insulted by the owner.
If I can't afford to go to ER (which with these prices I can't that often) then I'm not a customer, but I'll still be a supporter.
The thing is, as Jonty has said, the club isn't attracting new supporters/customers to the ground. With half the ground no concessions, what does that do to get kids to support Leeds? The only way a kid gets hooked on a football team is actually going to a game. The club make it impossible for parents to take their children with these prices and we're losing a new generation of fans.
For example, if your father is Leeds fans, chances are they'll be your team too, but unless you actually go to a game, you don't become properly hooked on the team.
posted on 14/10/11
If you want to take your kid to their first game and you live near Leeds, would you choose Leeds where you will either have to pay full whack for you and your kid, or have to buy a membership to get in teh family stand, or go to one of teh other local clubs who might do kids for a quid or a fiver or whatever?
Once they have gone to their first game will be very hard to get them to swicth to you afterwards.
10k+ empty seats each home game on average are 10k+ missed opportunities.
If have less fans in at higher prices is best then airlines would never cancel their half full flights, cinemas wouldn't offer cheaper tickets during quiet periods etc.
posted on 14/10/11
Take this scenario:
It's any match. The North and South stands are sold out. Someone decides they want to take their kid to a football game. They look at the prices left. They don't have a membership so can't go in the family stand, and the only tickets left are £34 no concession. They simply wouldn't bother or would just go to another club.
posted on 14/10/11
Cas
Your missing my point, to be successfull you have to give in or accommodate certain players at certain times.
Obrien wouldnt have come unless we matched cardiff offer which was without doubt a year too long, we gave in .
Bromby said he would only come if we gave him a four year deal, it was giving in
And come on Bromby hasnt been value for money, hardly played for 2 years.
Am not picking on anything, your saying the club doesnt give in, when clearly it has with certain players.
Like i say i think you have to sometimes, but think the club got it wrong on this one
posted on 14/10/11
As a season ticket holder I have bought family stand tickets for a work colleague and his son on a few occasions. Maybe this is a scheme the fans can do for each other?
posted on 14/10/11
Cheers my friend...LIW
posted on 14/10/11
Maybe this is a scheme the fans can do for each other?
--
Why should people have to resort to that? The club should be encouraging the fans to come, not restricting them to borrowing tickets from friends.
posted on 14/10/11
NJS
Its just how i feel too about these rent a fans in the far east.
If it happens where clubs can sell their rights abroad on their own, say good bye to a competitive league
posted on 14/10/11
Completely agree with Best Fans.
posted on 14/10/11
The problem with concessions being all round the ground, I agree with family stand concept, is it will be and was abused in the past.
posted on 14/10/11
Why and how can it be abused.
If your talking about people buying kids tickets and going in as adults, thats what the stewards are checking for at the turnstiles.
I dont get what you mean
posted on 14/10/11
LIW, I know for a fact it was abused previously. There is how many stewards to a turnstile?
But I perfer the family stand concept, but this doesn't mean I agree that you need a membership to get a ticket. If you are a member maybe it should be £20 adult and £5 (under 12) and £10 (under 16) with a non member paying full for adult (as per other parts of ground) with kids the same????
Page 1 of 2