Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Interesting theory .... but surely clutching at straws
The FA have looked at this thoroughly and have decided that they have enough evidence to charge him
Suarez has claimed that MU players call Evra the same name ....... ?
So must be a word they all know ..... ?
Though the case has been a complicated one, involving the linguistic nuance of what Suarez allegedly said, the FA is convinced that the Uruguayan “included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra” during the match.
The FA must first prove to a commission — likely to number four people and be chaired by an independent QC — that Suarez did indeed racially abuse the Frenchman.
Let's see ..... but like John Terry .... the damage is done as an allegation is enough to follow him forever
What the article says is true. I live in Spain, where the term is also used. I don't personally like it when used in a 'neutral' context, as I find the diminutive 'negrito' to be somewhat condescending but, ultimately, negro IS the Spanish word for black, no more no less. It would be ridiculous to ask almost 400 million wordlwide to change the word for black in their vernacular language just because it's not admissible in English.
The word has none of the negative connotations of the English meaning.
The article is also right in that it depends on the tone used. It could indeed be intended as a racial slur, but to presume that it is one at face value is grossly mistaken.
Interesting theory .... but surely clutching at straws
--
It's not clutching at straws at all. It's very possible that some United players, like Valencia or Hernandez for example, might use the term.
The sole use of the term does not consitute an insult - it depends entirely on how it is used. That's what the FA should be investigating.
At face value, it's not comparable to what Terry allegedly said, because there can be no denying the intended insult in Terry's alleged words, while the term used by Suarez is debatable at the very least.
Your friend calling you a basteward and someone you don't know calling you a basteward are two different things.
The straws being clutched are unbelievable
Still clutching at straws .....
The FA have looked at this thoroughly ..... why charge him if it is "debatable" ..... ?
Remember the FA have to prove their case and they obviously believe they can ....
Your friend calling you a basteward and someone you don't know calling you a basteward are two different things.
--
The massive flaw in your argument is that you equate 'negrito' at face value to an insult, when it isn't.
Basteward is an insult that can be used endearingly.
Negrito is not an insult but can be used as such.
I'm sure you'd be able to see the difference if this involved a white United player and a black Liverpool player.
And for the record, I'm not a Liverpool fan.
As I have mentioned in numerous other articles the 'key' factor is what do we exactly take the word 'charged' to mean.
The FA 'charge' someone in order to bring a particular case in front of their disciplinary committee. A lot of people are immediately putting 2 and 2 together and assuming the FA have a dossier full of evidence against Suarez.
While this could indeed be the case it could also be the case that they have simply nothing more than both players take on events and no other evidence. It could be as simple as letting the 2 players present their case and getting this long running saga 'done and dusted.'
Whichever way we look at it it is still premature to believe that just because the word 'charged' is used that the FA have in fact any 'concrete' evidence against Suarez.
The FA have looked at this thoroughly ..... why charge him if it is "debatable" ..... ?
Remember the FA have to prove their case and they obviously believe they can ...
---
As I said, the case has to be heard out.
It isn't wrong for the case to be investigated and I haven't categorically said it isn't an insult.
Why would the FA charge him? It could be because they are right, it could be because they have additional evidence that I'm unaware of, but it could also be because they have been ill-advised or that they believe it would be against their good name or reputation as regards their zero-tolerance policy to simply brush the issue under the carpet.
All of the above scenarios are plausible, and the principle of justice is innocent until proved guilty. What I don't understand is why people who only have a small part of the evidence feel the need to pass a guilty sentence before the case is adequately seen through.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/spanish-slang-may-get-suarez-off-the-hook-6261881.html
This article casts some more light on the Man U players call him the same thing issue.
Personally I couldnt care less about Evra and have no sympathy for him whatsoever. He was winding Suarez up by trying to get him sent off. He dived and then was waving the imaginary yellow card so he helped escalate the spat.
I don't think Luis is a racist, and many of the Chelsea fans who fell over themselves to post on our board need to look in their own backyard.
It comes down to wanting Luis banned not because they care about racism, but it being another angle to wind opposition fans up.
Regardless of whether the term is accepted in Spanish speaking countries, we are not in a Spanish speaking country and so if the term is deemed racist in the UK there are grounds for prosecution.
"Charged" means "Charged" .... i.e. The FA believe that there is a case to answer
Let's look at a hypothetical scenario ......
Suarez uses a word to Evra that he finds offensive and complains
Suarez says the word he used was not meant to be racist and is common parlance in his home country
Suarez requests a hearing at the FA and explains that no offence was intended but if offence was taken then he apologises
The FA consult with Evra and he accepts an apology
Could Liverpool have handled this better ..... instead of going on the offensive ..... ?
He could have called him a W........, a C....... or a T...... and be done with it like most blokes do when they have a row on a footy pitch.....
But then again, what do you expect from a player that was banned for spitting and banned for 10 matches for biting somebody's face. Not to mention his disgusting celebrations at the world cup after being sent off for his own cheating.
I can understand why Liverpool fans are defending him......basically because he's your best player.
Doesn't make it right though. If him and Terry are both found guilty then They should be severely punished just like Rio and Cantona were.
Otherwise the Kick Out campaign is deemed worthless.
Negrito is a description not an insult if translated into English. It can be used to poke fun in the Latin culture, but how can English people judge when it's used as such? The term is too much if a grey area to brand someone racist, the expression can even be used as a term of endearment. It's the FA who are clutching at straws.
comment by itsonlyagame - the relegation pace-setter (U6426) posted 17 minutes ago
Interesting theory .... but surely clutching at straws
--
It's not clutching at straws at all. It's very possible that some United players, like Valencia or Hernandez for example, might use the term.
The sole use of the term does not consitute an insult - it depends entirely on how it is used. That's what the FA should be investigating.
At face value, it's not comparable to what Terry allegedly said, because there can be no denying the intended insult in Terry's alleged words, while the term used by Suarez is debatable at the very least.
------------------------
It was said on a British football field and Suarez will be well aware of referring to the colour of a player to wind him up is strictly taboo
There will even be standard racism sections in his contract of employment.
Just because he uses the word back home and it is deemed ok doesn't make it ok here and there can be no doubt that he will be aware that referiing to skin colour in an insulting way here is strictly taboo
Buy a teddy bear, name it Mohammed, nothing will happen
Take the teddy bear to Saudi and you may well be jailed for it
We have our rules and Suarez should abide by them here like the rest of us have too
Aggers
"Black" is also a description ....... ?
Anyway ..... who says he used the word "negrito" ?
Seems to have evolved into a fact .....
Surely though this being a massively multi-cultural league there is the distinct possibility that Suarez is guilty of verbal name calling of Evra but not particularly racist abuse?
I may be clutching at straws but if my teams most influential player is being charged with racist abuse of another player I would sincerely hope that the evidence to hand is totally 100% undeniable and if it is then he should be punished accordingly, if there is the possibility of mis-interpretation on the utd players behalf then the case should be dropped.
comment by bluespensioner (U6049) posted 1 minute ago
Anyway ..... who says he used the word "negrito" ?
-----------------------------------
Suarez does. The word does not even exist here and in some quarters even means "pal" apparently.
Nothing will happen over this anyway.
Anyway ..... who says he used the word "negrito" ?
-----------------------------------
Suarez does. The word does not even exist here and in some quarters even means "pal" apparently.
Nothing will happen over this anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------
Oh well .... that's it then ...... case over ..... why are the FA charging him then ......
To show that they are doing something. Nothing will happen.
To show that they are doing something. Nothing will happen.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Then why charge him ? ..... they could have asked him to appear before a Disciplinary Committee and explain himself
Then they could also be seen to be "doing something"
To show that they are doing something. Nothing will happen.
Suarez does. The word does not even exist here and in some quarters even means "pal" apparently.
Nothing will happen over this anyway.
--------------------
The same way that black people use ni***er as a term of endearment between themselves particularly in the US...
Nani's Screamer! (U1145)
I don't know, just googled the word. Nothing will happen. Maybe a warning.
Just read the same "Suarez cheated at the World Cup" crap.
He did not cheat. He broke a rule, he was sent off, a penalty was given that Gyan should have scored, exactly how the rules dictate. End of story.
Every time you see a foul given in a game of football do you consider that to be cheating? Of course you don't.
So shut up.
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Suarez explained by 'experts'
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posted on 17/11/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 17/11/11
Interesting theory .... but surely clutching at straws
The FA have looked at this thoroughly and have decided that they have enough evidence to charge him
Suarez has claimed that MU players call Evra the same name ....... ?
So must be a word they all know ..... ?
Though the case has been a complicated one, involving the linguistic nuance of what Suarez allegedly said, the FA is convinced that the Uruguayan “included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra” during the match.
The FA must first prove to a commission — likely to number four people and be chaired by an independent QC — that Suarez did indeed racially abuse the Frenchman.
Let's see ..... but like John Terry .... the damage is done as an allegation is enough to follow him forever
posted on 17/11/11
What the article says is true. I live in Spain, where the term is also used. I don't personally like it when used in a 'neutral' context, as I find the diminutive 'negrito' to be somewhat condescending but, ultimately, negro IS the Spanish word for black, no more no less. It would be ridiculous to ask almost 400 million wordlwide to change the word for black in their vernacular language just because it's not admissible in English.
The word has none of the negative connotations of the English meaning.
The article is also right in that it depends on the tone used. It could indeed be intended as a racial slur, but to presume that it is one at face value is grossly mistaken.
posted on 17/11/11
Interesting theory .... but surely clutching at straws
--
It's not clutching at straws at all. It's very possible that some United players, like Valencia or Hernandez for example, might use the term.
The sole use of the term does not consitute an insult - it depends entirely on how it is used. That's what the FA should be investigating.
At face value, it's not comparable to what Terry allegedly said, because there can be no denying the intended insult in Terry's alleged words, while the term used by Suarez is debatable at the very least.
posted on 17/11/11
Your friend calling you a basteward and someone you don't know calling you a basteward are two different things.
The straws being clutched are unbelievable
posted on 17/11/11
Still clutching at straws .....
The FA have looked at this thoroughly ..... why charge him if it is "debatable" ..... ?
Remember the FA have to prove their case and they obviously believe they can ....
posted on 17/11/11
Your friend calling you a basteward and someone you don't know calling you a basteward are two different things.
--
The massive flaw in your argument is that you equate 'negrito' at face value to an insult, when it isn't.
Basteward is an insult that can be used endearingly.
Negrito is not an insult but can be used as such.
I'm sure you'd be able to see the difference if this involved a white United player and a black Liverpool player.
And for the record, I'm not a Liverpool fan.
posted on 17/11/11
As I have mentioned in numerous other articles the 'key' factor is what do we exactly take the word 'charged' to mean.
The FA 'charge' someone in order to bring a particular case in front of their disciplinary committee. A lot of people are immediately putting 2 and 2 together and assuming the FA have a dossier full of evidence against Suarez.
While this could indeed be the case it could also be the case that they have simply nothing more than both players take on events and no other evidence. It could be as simple as letting the 2 players present their case and getting this long running saga 'done and dusted.'
Whichever way we look at it it is still premature to believe that just because the word 'charged' is used that the FA have in fact any 'concrete' evidence against Suarez.
posted on 17/11/11
The FA have looked at this thoroughly ..... why charge him if it is "debatable" ..... ?
Remember the FA have to prove their case and they obviously believe they can ...
---
As I said, the case has to be heard out.
It isn't wrong for the case to be investigated and I haven't categorically said it isn't an insult.
Why would the FA charge him? It could be because they are right, it could be because they have additional evidence that I'm unaware of, but it could also be because they have been ill-advised or that they believe it would be against their good name or reputation as regards their zero-tolerance policy to simply brush the issue under the carpet.
All of the above scenarios are plausible, and the principle of justice is innocent until proved guilty. What I don't understand is why people who only have a small part of the evidence feel the need to pass a guilty sentence before the case is adequately seen through.
posted on 17/11/11
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/spanish-slang-may-get-suarez-off-the-hook-6261881.html
This article casts some more light on the Man U players call him the same thing issue.
Personally I couldnt care less about Evra and have no sympathy for him whatsoever. He was winding Suarez up by trying to get him sent off. He dived and then was waving the imaginary yellow card so he helped escalate the spat.
I don't think Luis is a racist, and many of the Chelsea fans who fell over themselves to post on our board need to look in their own backyard.
It comes down to wanting Luis banned not because they care about racism, but it being another angle to wind opposition fans up.
posted on 17/11/11
Regardless of whether the term is accepted in Spanish speaking countries, we are not in a Spanish speaking country and so if the term is deemed racist in the UK there are grounds for prosecution.
posted on 17/11/11
"Charged" means "Charged" .... i.e. The FA believe that there is a case to answer
Let's look at a hypothetical scenario ......
Suarez uses a word to Evra that he finds offensive and complains
Suarez says the word he used was not meant to be racist and is common parlance in his home country
Suarez requests a hearing at the FA and explains that no offence was intended but if offence was taken then he apologises
The FA consult with Evra and he accepts an apology
Could Liverpool have handled this better ..... instead of going on the offensive ..... ?
posted on 17/11/11
He could have called him a W........, a C....... or a T...... and be done with it like most blokes do when they have a row on a footy pitch.....
But then again, what do you expect from a player that was banned for spitting and banned for 10 matches for biting somebody's face. Not to mention his disgusting celebrations at the world cup after being sent off for his own cheating.
I can understand why Liverpool fans are defending him......basically because he's your best player.
Doesn't make it right though. If him and Terry are both found guilty then They should be severely punished just like Rio and Cantona were.
Otherwise the Kick Out campaign is deemed worthless.
posted on 17/11/11
Negrito is a description not an insult if translated into English. It can be used to poke fun in the Latin culture, but how can English people judge when it's used as such? The term is too much if a grey area to brand someone racist, the expression can even be used as a term of endearment. It's the FA who are clutching at straws.
posted on 17/11/11
comment by itsonlyagame - the relegation pace-setter (U6426) posted 17 minutes ago
Interesting theory .... but surely clutching at straws
--
It's not clutching at straws at all. It's very possible that some United players, like Valencia or Hernandez for example, might use the term.
The sole use of the term does not consitute an insult - it depends entirely on how it is used. That's what the FA should be investigating.
At face value, it's not comparable to what Terry allegedly said, because there can be no denying the intended insult in Terry's alleged words, while the term used by Suarez is debatable at the very least.
------------------------
It was said on a British football field and Suarez will be well aware of referring to the colour of a player to wind him up is strictly taboo
There will even be standard racism sections in his contract of employment.
Just because he uses the word back home and it is deemed ok doesn't make it ok here and there can be no doubt that he will be aware that referiing to skin colour in an insulting way here is strictly taboo
Buy a teddy bear, name it Mohammed, nothing will happen
Take the teddy bear to Saudi and you may well be jailed for it
We have our rules and Suarez should abide by them here like the rest of us have too
posted on 17/11/11
Aggers
"Black" is also a description ....... ?
Anyway ..... who says he used the word "negrito" ?
Seems to have evolved into a fact .....
posted on 17/11/11
Surely though this being a massively multi-cultural league there is the distinct possibility that Suarez is guilty of verbal name calling of Evra but not particularly racist abuse?
I may be clutching at straws but if my teams most influential player is being charged with racist abuse of another player I would sincerely hope that the evidence to hand is totally 100% undeniable and if it is then he should be punished accordingly, if there is the possibility of mis-interpretation on the utd players behalf then the case should be dropped.
posted on 17/11/11
comment by bluespensioner (U6049) posted 1 minute ago
Anyway ..... who says he used the word "negrito" ?
-----------------------------------
Suarez does. The word does not even exist here and in some quarters even means "pal" apparently.
Nothing will happen over this anyway.
posted on 17/11/11
Anyway ..... who says he used the word "negrito" ?
-----------------------------------
Suarez does. The word does not even exist here and in some quarters even means "pal" apparently.
Nothing will happen over this anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------
Oh well .... that's it then ...... case over ..... why are the FA charging him then ......
posted on 17/11/11
To show that they are doing something. Nothing will happen.
posted on 17/11/11
To show that they are doing something. Nothing will happen.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Then why charge him ? ..... they could have asked him to appear before a Disciplinary Committee and explain himself
Then they could also be seen to be "doing something"
posted on 17/11/11
To show that they are doing something. Nothing will happen.
posted on 17/11/11
Suarez does. The word does not even exist here and in some quarters even means "pal" apparently.
Nothing will happen over this anyway.
--------------------
The same way that black people use ni***er as a term of endearment between themselves particularly in the US...
posted on 17/11/11
Nani's Screamer! (U1145)
I don't know, just googled the word. Nothing will happen. Maybe a warning.
posted on 17/11/11
Just read the same "Suarez cheated at the World Cup" crap.
He did not cheat. He broke a rule, he was sent off, a penalty was given that Gyan should have scored, exactly how the rules dictate. End of story.
Every time you see a foul given in a game of football do you consider that to be cheating? Of course you don't.
So shut up.
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