I'd just like to see us moving in the right direction.
how can you say trophies arent important? ridicolous thing to say.
how can you say trophies arent important? ridicolous thing to say.
----
Think he's saying that he'd rather see us moving in the right direction and win no trophies rather than continuing to decline, but picking up a cup on our way down.
Tbh the same goes for me. I want Arsenal at least to be contenders for all titles and that we are taken seriously from our opponents instead for being a laughing stock.
But how far we have come? We are now challenge for CL League place that is for me the most frustrating thing.
Spurs fan in peace (I think this might be the first time I have ventured on the Arsenal board).
I agree with you in that trophies aren't as important as we often make them out to be, sure for the players I can imagine they have a bigger draw as they have what 10+ years to win one, but as supporters we have a lifetime.
I don't even hold league placing important, I don't find progression important. To me sport is entertainment and I would rather watch something that is entertaining and never win anything, than to win playing dull football.
Whilst trophies give us something to wind up opposition fans and a benchmark for great teams, the simple fact is that I am watching to be entertained. Granted the thrill of winning adds to that,and I would love us to win more trophies, but really thats just icing on the cake.
Entertainment and Style over a bit of silverware anyday for me. Hopefully though both are possible.
I said at the start of the season I didn't care if we went another season trophyless. I just wanted signs that we were turning things around and going in the right direction. Sadly the only signs are that things are getting worse.
Sadly we're not, we're instead selling our best players and giving our poor one's long lucrative contract...
----------
This is the bit that upsets me the most.
Think he's saying that he'd rather see us moving in the right direction and win no trophies rather than continuing to decline, but picking up a cup on our way down.
---------------
Yeah that's exactly it AU although sadly we're not looking like doing either at the moment.
All I want is the Manager and the team to be hungry for success, trophies is just an added bonus!
Trophies mean nothing to you?
What a pathetic fan you are.
That is exactly the problem with football now.
These lot shouldn't be at our club.
Almunia
Fabianski
Squillaci
Djourou
Gibbs
Denilson
Diaby
Arshavin
Vela
Bendtner
Chamakh
And I want us to start playing attractive football again, it was the only thing good about Arsenal for the past 4 seasons and sadly we don't even have that anymore.
You could add Rosicky and Ramsey to the list.
Read the article again Fred and see why
Trophies mean nothing to you?
What a pathetic fan you are.
----
Sigh. As Portsmouth recently entered administration for the second time and currently languish in the Championship, was the way they conducted themselves and the resulting consequences worth the FA Cup that they won?
As a Liverpool fan; we support our club to win trophies.
That's probably because our club has had so much success and that's what everybody should strive for in sport, win a cup and be remembered.
Nobody remembers the teams that finish fourth or third or second.
Bill Shankly once said, first is first and second is nothing and he had a point. Look where that philosophy got him. I'd hate to see a great club like Arsenal lose that aim of silverware and focus on getting into the CL every season without winning anything.
Trophies are all you can measure success by. Progression is arbitrary really, you can have a great season and finish 2nd, then 7th the next. Or you can do a Man City and rise to the upper echelons out of nowhere.
Fred the Liverpool fan
Surely if you progress enough then you win trophies. I'm not saying don't aim for trophies, that would be silly. I'm saying it's not what means most to me, IMO the club moving and progressing in the right direction means far more.
I'd hate to see a great club like Arsenal lose that aim of silverware and focus on getting into the CL every season without winning anything.
----
You're missing the point of the article. Winning your first trophy as part of a hopfully prolonged era of success is what we all aspire to as Arsenal supporters.
Winning a cup-competition which serves as nothing else but a distraction in a period of decline is little more than vanity.
The bigger picture is more important. It's more important that Arsenal start operating properly and progressively as a football club, before they win any trophies. If anything, it's probably a blessing that we won't win a cup competition as that would just serve to delay the major reconstruction our club needs.
But what do you think you're progressing towards? Trophies!
Liverpool finished 2nd, great, we didn't make the final push and finished 7th the next season.
Well said Au.
Yes Fred, Liverpool did decline but what's your point?
That's the OP's point Fred.
What's the point in finishing 2nd one year if you finish 3rd (or lower) the year after? Progression on finishing 2nd will surely be finishing 1st will it not?
As long as the club is continually progressing, continually trying to better itself, then that is what is important.
Look at it this way - Portsmouth won an FA cup a few years ago. Now they are entering yet another administration. The cost of chasing that FA cup was beyond their financial capabilities and they are now paying the price of that. Progression, both on the field and off it may have meant not winning that FA cup, but may have resulted in a more long term realisation of that progress. Meaning it could have meant that the club was in a better position to compete at a higher level over a longer period of time.
I think that's what the OP is trying to get across. A long term plan should be in place in favour of short term gain.
And winning a trophy shouldn't be regarded as a culmination of that progress. On the contrary, it should be regarded as just the start. Even when success has been attained, a club should still look to better itself.
You don't want trophies ????
Goodness gracious me
They've gone bonkers
Thanks Ripley. You and Au are spot on but I fear the fella's you're explaining the point to, will in fact, never get it... As demonstrated in the post above by metro.
As a Liverpool fan; we support our club to win trophies.
That's probably because our club has had so much success and that's what everybody should strive for in sport, win a cup and be remembered.
Nobody remembers the teams that finish fourth or third or second.
Bill Shankly once said, first is first and second is nothing and he had a point. Look where that philosophy got him. I'd hate to see a great club like Arsenal lose that aim of silverware and focus on getting into the CL every season without winning anything.
===
I'm sorry, but the thing I gathered from that is you only support Liverpool because they won a lot of trophies once.
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Seven years without a trophy...
Page 1 of 2
posted on 19/2/12
I'd just like to see us moving in the right direction.
posted on 19/2/12
how can you say trophies arent important? ridicolous thing to say.
posted on 19/2/12
how can you say trophies arent important? ridicolous thing to say.
----
Think he's saying that he'd rather see us moving in the right direction and win no trophies rather than continuing to decline, but picking up a cup on our way down.
posted on 19/2/12
Tbh the same goes for me. I want Arsenal at least to be contenders for all titles and that we are taken seriously from our opponents instead for being a laughing stock.
But how far we have come? We are now challenge for CL League place that is for me the most frustrating thing.
posted on 19/2/12
Spurs fan in peace (I think this might be the first time I have ventured on the Arsenal board).
I agree with you in that trophies aren't as important as we often make them out to be, sure for the players I can imagine they have a bigger draw as they have what 10+ years to win one, but as supporters we have a lifetime.
I don't even hold league placing important, I don't find progression important. To me sport is entertainment and I would rather watch something that is entertaining and never win anything, than to win playing dull football.
Whilst trophies give us something to wind up opposition fans and a benchmark for great teams, the simple fact is that I am watching to be entertained. Granted the thrill of winning adds to that,and I would love us to win more trophies, but really thats just icing on the cake.
Entertainment and Style over a bit of silverware anyday for me. Hopefully though both are possible.
posted on 19/2/12
I said at the start of the season I didn't care if we went another season trophyless. I just wanted signs that we were turning things around and going in the right direction. Sadly the only signs are that things are getting worse.
posted on 19/2/12
Sadly we're not, we're instead selling our best players and giving our poor one's long lucrative contract...
----------
This is the bit that upsets me the most.
posted on 19/2/12
Think he's saying that he'd rather see us moving in the right direction and win no trophies rather than continuing to decline, but picking up a cup on our way down.
---------------
Yeah that's exactly it AU although sadly we're not looking like doing either at the moment.
posted on 19/2/12
All I want is the Manager and the team to be hungry for success, trophies is just an added bonus!
posted on 19/2/12
Trophies mean nothing to you?
What a pathetic fan you are.
That is exactly the problem with football now.
posted on 19/2/12
These lot shouldn't be at our club.
Almunia
Fabianski
Squillaci
Djourou
Gibbs
Denilson
Diaby
Arshavin
Vela
Bendtner
Chamakh
posted on 19/2/12
And I want us to start playing attractive football again, it was the only thing good about Arsenal for the past 4 seasons and sadly we don't even have that anymore.
posted on 19/2/12
You could add Rosicky and Ramsey to the list.
posted on 19/2/12
Read the article again Fred and see why
posted on 19/2/12
Trophies mean nothing to you?
What a pathetic fan you are.
----
Sigh. As Portsmouth recently entered administration for the second time and currently languish in the Championship, was the way they conducted themselves and the resulting consequences worth the FA Cup that they won?
posted on 19/2/12
As a Liverpool fan; we support our club to win trophies.
That's probably because our club has had so much success and that's what everybody should strive for in sport, win a cup and be remembered.
Nobody remembers the teams that finish fourth or third or second.
Bill Shankly once said, first is first and second is nothing and he had a point. Look where that philosophy got him. I'd hate to see a great club like Arsenal lose that aim of silverware and focus on getting into the CL every season without winning anything.
posted on 19/2/12
Trophies are all you can measure success by. Progression is arbitrary really, you can have a great season and finish 2nd, then 7th the next. Or you can do a Man City and rise to the upper echelons out of nowhere.
posted on 19/2/12
Fred the Liverpool fan
Surely if you progress enough then you win trophies. I'm not saying don't aim for trophies, that would be silly. I'm saying it's not what means most to me, IMO the club moving and progressing in the right direction means far more.
posted on 19/2/12
I'd hate to see a great club like Arsenal lose that aim of silverware and focus on getting into the CL every season without winning anything.
----
You're missing the point of the article. Winning your first trophy as part of a hopfully prolonged era of success is what we all aspire to as Arsenal supporters.
Winning a cup-competition which serves as nothing else but a distraction in a period of decline is little more than vanity.
The bigger picture is more important. It's more important that Arsenal start operating properly and progressively as a football club, before they win any trophies. If anything, it's probably a blessing that we won't win a cup competition as that would just serve to delay the major reconstruction our club needs.
posted on 19/2/12
But what do you think you're progressing towards? Trophies!
Liverpool finished 2nd, great, we didn't make the final push and finished 7th the next season.
posted on 19/2/12
Well said Au.
Yes Fred, Liverpool did decline but what's your point?
posted on 19/2/12
That's the OP's point Fred.
What's the point in finishing 2nd one year if you finish 3rd (or lower) the year after? Progression on finishing 2nd will surely be finishing 1st will it not?
As long as the club is continually progressing, continually trying to better itself, then that is what is important.
Look at it this way - Portsmouth won an FA cup a few years ago. Now they are entering yet another administration. The cost of chasing that FA cup was beyond their financial capabilities and they are now paying the price of that. Progression, both on the field and off it may have meant not winning that FA cup, but may have resulted in a more long term realisation of that progress. Meaning it could have meant that the club was in a better position to compete at a higher level over a longer period of time.
I think that's what the OP is trying to get across. A long term plan should be in place in favour of short term gain.
And winning a trophy shouldn't be regarded as a culmination of that progress. On the contrary, it should be regarded as just the start. Even when success has been attained, a club should still look to better itself.
posted on 19/2/12
You don't want trophies ????
Goodness gracious me
They've gone bonkers
posted on 19/2/12
Thanks Ripley. You and Au are spot on but I fear the fella's you're explaining the point to, will in fact, never get it... As demonstrated in the post above by metro.
posted on 19/2/12
As a Liverpool fan; we support our club to win trophies.
That's probably because our club has had so much success and that's what everybody should strive for in sport, win a cup and be remembered.
Nobody remembers the teams that finish fourth or third or second.
Bill Shankly once said, first is first and second is nothing and he had a point. Look where that philosophy got him. I'd hate to see a great club like Arsenal lose that aim of silverware and focus on getting into the CL every season without winning anything.
===
I'm sorry, but the thing I gathered from that is you only support Liverpool because they won a lot of trophies once.
Page 1 of 2