No, that would be Sid James.
=======================================
sorry, i'm mixing up my comedians!
arthour lowe + sid james = comedy sports writer sid lowe...
I'm certain the crowd play a part
Hostile atmospheres must surely affect some players whilst others rise above it.
When you look at United's form away last season and home form, I simply cannot fathom why there was such a difference. The players are still playing on a grass pitch with a goal at either end
The ref may have something to do with it in slightly favouring the home team however, It can't really explain the actual performance of the team and individual players.
Playing in front of 75k supporters at OT, knowing they are desperate for us to win must play a part in players minds even though the OT crowd can be bloody quiet at times!!
To be honest though, I never really get why it is so much easier to win at home than it is on your travels, particularly for a big club
Everyone knows that teams have better records at home than they do away – in the Premier League the home team has a 63% winning record, in La Liga it is 65% - but it’s difficult to work out why exactly.
................................
Not really. I think it is quite obvious. All down to support. When the home crowd gets right behind their team the old adrenaline rush kicks in with the players.
@ Vidicschin
No, the whole point of the article is that while that's what everyone thinks, the actual statistical evidence doesn't support it. From the review:
"Fans are so used to this that they take it for granted their team is much more likely to win on its own turf. They also take it for granted that they know why – it’s because the home crowd is cheering the team on. But there is no evidence for this. In fact, despite a fair amount of research in the top sports science journals, there is no conclusive explanation of what makes teams play better at home. This is the real puzzle about home advantage: everyone knows it exists but no one knows why."
@ Mrs UnitedRedMacca said offside is Rocket Science
I agree, the discrepancy between our home and away form is bizarre - surely it can't just be down to refs or the crowd. There must be some seriously complex combination of factors.
Fans are so used to this that they take it for granted their team is much more likely to win on its own turf. They also take it for granted that they know why – it’s because the home crowd is cheering the team on. But there is no evidence for this
............................
There is no evidence against it either. I would probaly say that it is a combination of a lot of little things that favour the home side.
But the crowd is a major influence.
comment by giggsnscholes (U8412)
posted 5 minutes ago
@ oshealegend
?!
.....................
He posted on the wrong thread. It was a reply to me, on a different one.
@ Vidicschin
I agree that it's a combination of small factors but I posted the article specifically because the that's not what the book concludes and the authors try to prove it by looking at a lot of data.
So, for the influence of the crowd on players, they look at a single act in a game that can be easily measured: the stats show that home teams are not more likely to win penalty shoot-outs than away teams.
They argue that this shows the crowd doesn't have much influence. Personally, I disagree and think supporters can play a part in a more general, less easily identifiable and quantifiable way.
Its hardly the ref when United have had some joke decisions even on home turf last season....
Its a combination of many things, crowd, ref, pitch, how players feel on the day.
When United played away last season you could notice they just didn't feel it like they did at home.
comment by giggsnscholes (U8412)
posted 8 minutes ago
@ Vidicschin
I agree that it's a combination of small factors but I posted the article specifically because the that's not what the book concludes and the authors try to prove it by looking at a lot of data.
...................
Not getting at you.
I often find that scientist and these kind of people tend to over analyse things and miss out on the perfectly obvious.
Man Utd do get away with some ridiculous decisions, that only they would get but in fairness Man Utd, as well as Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool are under more media scrutiny than most hence why when decisions go in their favour they make front page news.
If the Pedro Mendes incident in 2004 had happened involving a game outside the top 6 biggest clubs in England (whom I would Identify as the current top 4 + Liverpool and Spurs) then I doubt it would have been given much media publicity. Look at the Reading v Watford game 2 seasons ago, that has nearly been forgotten yet nobody will ever forget the Pedro Mendes goal or even Luis Garcia "goal" .
People also forget the role and influence of opposition managers as well. Certain managers try and play the "worlds against us" card to try and protect their jobs and are quite forgiving and understanding with referees when a decision goes against them when playing a non-top 4 club, yet when they play Chelsea, United or Liverpool they are quick to play the "Big Clubs get all the decisions card". I'd say Steve Bruce, Tony Pulis and Harry Redknapp are classic examples of this.
TBH I have never understood home advantage.
I think its the way coaches approach and set up teams for home games. They might feel that they have a duty to try and entertain their paying fans, so go out with the intention of playing a more expansive game than they would if they were away. Going for the 3 points rather than sitting back and trying to nick a point.
Vocal support is key but sometimes you can go to an away game (like at Blackburn vs United) where the away side has as much vocal support if not more than the home team but still play like the away team.
I think footballers are creatures of habit and either playing at home or away is a well rehearsed ritual.
you don't need to write a book about it, just go to Old Trafford and see the way Man U get all the decisions
comment by henrykamp (U8418)
--------------------------
Go away. The grown ups are talking
also I would add that in the lower leagues and non league especially where there is little or no home support (one man and his dog) home teams still seem to have an advantage.
comment by Never Blowing Bubbles (U7929) posted 12 minutes ago
People also forget the role and influence of opposition managers as well. Certain managers try and play the "worlds against us" card to try and protect their jobs and are quite forgiving and understanding with referees when a decision goes against them when playing a non-top 4 club, yet when they play Chelsea, United or Liverpool they are quick to play the "Big Clubs get all the decisions card". I'd say Steve Bruce, Tony Pulis and Harry Redknapp are classic examples of this.
------------------------
The OP wasn't really talking about particular teams. The topic is a home v away records in general terms for all clubs
The fact that 'Arry's nagging a 4th official isn't really the point of the thread bud
From a general point of view, do you have a standpoint on the issue?
I played for my local side in a local league. Our nearest away game was about two miles and the furthest about 40 miles. Obviously, being a local league you would play in front of tens of people and on a good day maybe a hundred so crowds weren't really a factor or travel. I don't have any stats to hand but I would guess we won two thirds of our home games over the period I was playing and probably a third of our away games. You just feel more comfortable at home, we were a successful side at the level we played but still didn't perform as well away from home as we did at home.
The best way to compare home vs away in football is to drop down to amateur leagues where refs have minimal bias to home teams and factors such as crowds are similar for both teams. I have played amateur football for a while and have always found it harder to play away than at home. I guess its psychological or may be I am not used to the pitch?.
No doubt home teams get most decisions in the PL but its impossible to base that on one factor. It must be a combination of all these factors
comment by henrykamp (U8418
That's more lie it
cant believe he will leave it at that though...
Mrs UnitedRedMacca said offside is Rocket Science (U2024)
From personal experience No. I've seen games like Spurs (home) this season whereby every refereeing decision went against us, yet every linesman decision went for us, in contrast at WHL, most refereeing decisions went for us, yet every linesman decision went against us.
I just think when home teams get decisions, they are highlighted far more in the press and media than if away teams get them.
Although I do go along with the notion that referees can be easily swayed by the crowds.
Lee Mason for instance is a home ref, more often than not he will buckle under the pressure of the home team and give the decision their way. Howard Webb IMO isn't as easily swayed and is far more balanced, as is Mike Dean and to a slightly lesser extent Clattenburg and Atkinson
comment by Never Blowing Bubbles (U7929) posted 48 seconds ago
Mrs UnitedRedMacca said offside is Rocket Science (U2024)
From personal experience No. I've seen games like Spurs (home) this season whereby every refereeing decision went against us, yet every linesman decision went for us, in contrast at WHL, most refereeing decisions went for us, yet every linesman decision went against us.
I just think when home teams get decisions, they are highlighted far more in the press and media than if away teams get them.
Although I do go along with the notion that referees can be easily swayed by the crowds.
Lee Mason for instance is a home ref, more often than not he will buckle under the pressure of the home team and give the decision their way. Howard Webb IMO isn't as easily swayed and is far more balanced, as is Mike Dean and to a slightly lesser extent Clattenburg and Atkinson
-------------------------
Fair points
I've often thought myself that Assistant Referees (Linesmen if your old school like me) can be more swayed by a home crowd than the ref himself mainly due the their close proximity to the crowd itself
When you have thousands of screaming Mancs or Scousers behind you, it must come into your mind when there's a mrginal offside/onside decision to make for example
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Proof that refs are biased?
Page 1 of 2
posted on 28/6/11
No, that would be Sid James.
=======================================
sorry, i'm mixing up my comedians!
arthour lowe + sid james = comedy sports writer sid lowe...
posted on 28/6/11
I'm certain the crowd play a part
Hostile atmospheres must surely affect some players whilst others rise above it.
When you look at United's form away last season and home form, I simply cannot fathom why there was such a difference. The players are still playing on a grass pitch with a goal at either end
The ref may have something to do with it in slightly favouring the home team however, It can't really explain the actual performance of the team and individual players.
Playing in front of 75k supporters at OT, knowing they are desperate for us to win must play a part in players minds even though the OT crowd can be bloody quiet at times!!
To be honest though, I never really get why it is so much easier to win at home than it is on your travels, particularly for a big club
posted on 28/6/11
Everyone knows that teams have better records at home than they do away – in the Premier League the home team has a 63% winning record, in La Liga it is 65% - but it’s difficult to work out why exactly.
................................
Not really. I think it is quite obvious. All down to support. When the home crowd gets right behind their team the old adrenaline rush kicks in with the players.
posted on 28/6/11
@ Vidicschin
No, the whole point of the article is that while that's what everyone thinks, the actual statistical evidence doesn't support it. From the review:
"Fans are so used to this that they take it for granted their team is much more likely to win on its own turf. They also take it for granted that they know why – it’s because the home crowd is cheering the team on. But there is no evidence for this. In fact, despite a fair amount of research in the top sports science journals, there is no conclusive explanation of what makes teams play better at home. This is the real puzzle about home advantage: everyone knows it exists but no one knows why."
posted on 28/6/11
@ Mrs UnitedRedMacca said offside is Rocket Science
I agree, the discrepancy between our home and away form is bizarre - surely it can't just be down to refs or the crowd. There must be some seriously complex combination of factors.
posted on 28/6/11
@ oshealegend
?!
posted on 28/6/11
Fans are so used to this that they take it for granted their team is much more likely to win on its own turf. They also take it for granted that they know why – it’s because the home crowd is cheering the team on. But there is no evidence for this
............................
There is no evidence against it either. I would probaly say that it is a combination of a lot of little things that favour the home side.
But the crowd is a major influence.
posted on 28/6/11
comment by giggsnscholes (U8412)
posted 5 minutes ago
@ oshealegend
?!
.....................
He posted on the wrong thread. It was a reply to me, on a different one.
posted on 28/6/11
@ Vidicschin
I agree that it's a combination of small factors but I posted the article specifically because the that's not what the book concludes and the authors try to prove it by looking at a lot of data.
So, for the influence of the crowd on players, they look at a single act in a game that can be easily measured: the stats show that home teams are not more likely to win penalty shoot-outs than away teams.
They argue that this shows the crowd doesn't have much influence. Personally, I disagree and think supporters can play a part in a more general, less easily identifiable and quantifiable way.
posted on 28/6/11
Its hardly the ref when United have had some joke decisions even on home turf last season....
Its a combination of many things, crowd, ref, pitch, how players feel on the day.
When United played away last season you could notice they just didn't feel it like they did at home.
posted on 28/6/11
comment by giggsnscholes (U8412)
posted 8 minutes ago
@ Vidicschin
I agree that it's a combination of small factors but I posted the article specifically because the that's not what the book concludes and the authors try to prove it by looking at a lot of data.
...................
Not getting at you.
I often find that scientist and these kind of people tend to over analyse things and miss out on the perfectly obvious.
posted on 28/6/11
Man Utd do get away with some ridiculous decisions, that only they would get but in fairness Man Utd, as well as Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool are under more media scrutiny than most hence why when decisions go in their favour they make front page news.
If the Pedro Mendes incident in 2004 had happened involving a game outside the top 6 biggest clubs in England (whom I would Identify as the current top 4 + Liverpool and Spurs) then I doubt it would have been given much media publicity. Look at the Reading v Watford game 2 seasons ago, that has nearly been forgotten yet nobody will ever forget the Pedro Mendes goal or even Luis Garcia "goal" .
posted on 28/6/11
People also forget the role and influence of opposition managers as well. Certain managers try and play the "worlds against us" card to try and protect their jobs and are quite forgiving and understanding with referees when a decision goes against them when playing a non-top 4 club, yet when they play Chelsea, United or Liverpool they are quick to play the "Big Clubs get all the decisions card". I'd say Steve Bruce, Tony Pulis and Harry Redknapp are classic examples of this.
posted on 28/6/11
TBH I have never understood home advantage.
I think its the way coaches approach and set up teams for home games. They might feel that they have a duty to try and entertain their paying fans, so go out with the intention of playing a more expansive game than they would if they were away. Going for the 3 points rather than sitting back and trying to nick a point.
Vocal support is key but sometimes you can go to an away game (like at Blackburn vs United) where the away side has as much vocal support if not more than the home team but still play like the away team.
I think footballers are creatures of habit and either playing at home or away is a well rehearsed ritual.
posted on 28/6/11
you don't need to write a book about it, just go to Old Trafford and see the way Man U get all the decisions
posted on 28/6/11
comment by henrykamp (U8418)
--------------------------
Go away. The grown ups are talking
posted on 28/6/11
also I would add that in the lower leagues and non league especially where there is little or no home support (one man and his dog) home teams still seem to have an advantage.
posted on 28/6/11
comment by Never Blowing Bubbles (U7929) posted 12 minutes ago
People also forget the role and influence of opposition managers as well. Certain managers try and play the "worlds against us" card to try and protect their jobs and are quite forgiving and understanding with referees when a decision goes against them when playing a non-top 4 club, yet when they play Chelsea, United or Liverpool they are quick to play the "Big Clubs get all the decisions card". I'd say Steve Bruce, Tony Pulis and Harry Redknapp are classic examples of this.
------------------------
The OP wasn't really talking about particular teams. The topic is a home v away records in general terms for all clubs
The fact that 'Arry's nagging a 4th official isn't really the point of the thread bud
From a general point of view, do you have a standpoint on the issue?
posted on 28/6/11
I played for my local side in a local league. Our nearest away game was about two miles and the furthest about 40 miles. Obviously, being a local league you would play in front of tens of people and on a good day maybe a hundred so crowds weren't really a factor or travel. I don't have any stats to hand but I would guess we won two thirds of our home games over the period I was playing and probably a third of our away games. You just feel more comfortable at home, we were a successful side at the level we played but still didn't perform as well away from home as we did at home.
posted on 28/6/11
The best way to compare home vs away in football is to drop down to amateur leagues where refs have minimal bias to home teams and factors such as crowds are similar for both teams. I have played amateur football for a while and have always found it harder to play away than at home. I guess its psychological or may be I am not used to the pitch?.
No doubt home teams get most decisions in the PL but its impossible to base that on one factor. It must be a combination of all these factors
posted on 28/6/11
comment by henrykamp (U8418
That's more lie it
posted on 28/6/11
^^^^^
like
posted on 28/6/11
cant believe he will leave it at that though...
posted on 28/6/11
Mrs UnitedRedMacca said offside is Rocket Science (U2024)
From personal experience No. I've seen games like Spurs (home) this season whereby every refereeing decision went against us, yet every linesman decision went for us, in contrast at WHL, most refereeing decisions went for us, yet every linesman decision went against us.
I just think when home teams get decisions, they are highlighted far more in the press and media than if away teams get them.
Although I do go along with the notion that referees can be easily swayed by the crowds.
Lee Mason for instance is a home ref, more often than not he will buckle under the pressure of the home team and give the decision their way. Howard Webb IMO isn't as easily swayed and is far more balanced, as is Mike Dean and to a slightly lesser extent Clattenburg and Atkinson
posted on 28/6/11
comment by Never Blowing Bubbles (U7929) posted 48 seconds ago
Mrs UnitedRedMacca said offside is Rocket Science (U2024)
From personal experience No. I've seen games like Spurs (home) this season whereby every refereeing decision went against us, yet every linesman decision went for us, in contrast at WHL, most refereeing decisions went for us, yet every linesman decision went against us.
I just think when home teams get decisions, they are highlighted far more in the press and media than if away teams get them.
Although I do go along with the notion that referees can be easily swayed by the crowds.
Lee Mason for instance is a home ref, more often than not he will buckle under the pressure of the home team and give the decision their way. Howard Webb IMO isn't as easily swayed and is far more balanced, as is Mike Dean and to a slightly lesser extent Clattenburg and Atkinson
-------------------------
Fair points
I've often thought myself that Assistant Referees (Linesmen if your old school like me) can be more swayed by a home crowd than the ref himself mainly due the their close proximity to the crowd itself
When you have thousands of screaming Mancs or Scousers behind you, it must come into your mind when there's a mrginal offside/onside decision to make for example
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