McInnes

Redprint
This I posted a few weeks ago if you recall.

I stamped and shouted, and threw toys from pram in support of Millen, because I WANTED to believe, and because I watched a few idiots bring down our best chance in 30 years (GJ).
But the fact is that the longer into this season we went, the more it became obvious that Millen couldnt inspire the troops and his demeanour became increasingly hopeless and clueless. There were shafts of sunlight (last season) and they kept it going, but now the wheels have fallen off.

Onefor
Hates a strong word
Lets just say that, as Wizered has always said, I am Bristol City, whoever calls the tune.
We just have different ways of going about it

RP
"BRR - Some of us are truly gifted."
And some of us are full of it RP
Worth remembering we ARE still on the same side, even if we do see it from a different angle

BRR
You didn't need to post the above. On numerous occasions I've read on here how you regretted backing Millen.

'And some of us are full of it RP' -
I have to admit, I wasn't at the back of the queue when loud mouths were handed out.
I also know I go to far sometimes.

I dont know about numerous occasions RP.
But even the most desperately optimistic of us can see when a manager has lost the plot big stylee.

I will never understand why Millen began to make the most basic of howlers, and why he left our best midfield in the reserves when it was blatantly obvious to everyone else that Scuze isn't good enough, we didnt need 3 left sided midielders/wingers or another center forward as well as Pitman, Maynard and Stead, and we should have replaced our back 4 with better players a year ago.
So the one player we have who could have kept him in a job (Cisse) was left in the reserves and our defence was naked when attacked from deep.

I have no regrets supporting our manager, and I will continue to do so until the idiot (whoever he might be) proves to me that he has not got it.
If more people had got on this board a couple of years ago to support their manager and players when Hanu, Binolair etc were conducting their campaign to oust "The fat controller", we may not have disfigured this club quite so badly, and we could have seen the benefit. I still maintain GJ was a damned good manager, although its now pointless arguing the point with regard to him. But it does indicate why I stuck by Millen like I did, and rightly so.
Stand by your man - and your club

The best way is to support the manager, especially if he has earned that trust. Sadly for him, Millen did not and he had to go! Virtually all fans were in agreement with that.

'when Hanu, Binolair etc were conducting their campaign to oust "The fat controller", we may not have disfigured this club quite so badly, and we could have seen the benefit. I still maintain GJ was a damned good manager'

BRR - I have to put my hand up and say I was one of, if not the first, to warn of problems with GJ.
When Tins left the club GJ was my first choice as I'd heard such glowing reports from friends in Yeovil. He'd built a team, McIndoe, LJ, Gav, Skiverton,Weale, Jevons,Fonts who together were much to good for the Conference and L2. GJ brought most to AG and we won promotion from L1, but here's the problem they weren't good enough, individually or collectively for the Championship and GJ couldn't (or didn't want to) see it.
After getting us up the bounce factor (plus Marv and Basso) nearly got us to the Prem.
I wish I could cut and paste my comments from the old 606 warning it would end in tears because of his demented selection policy and his ridiculous set ups to accommodate 1 player.
Our best team towards the end of out 1st Championship season didn't include LJ, especially the P/Os against Palace.
The beginning of the end came at Wembley by moving Marv to RB and bringing on LJ. It had gone from nepotism to sheer stupidity. Then followed even more stupidity - 4 Right footed CM's, Sno wide left, brawling with players etc etc
GJ was brilliant with the media and raising our profile and credit must go to him for getting us out of L1. His weakness was found out in the Championship.
That's why he's now managing Northampton and his son can only get a game at Chesterfield.

Hello RP.

How come the 'bounce factor' didn't work with Scunny or Blackpool, or Forest the year after - only us?

I'll tell you why: because at THAT time we were a bunch of underdogs thriving on the pessimism of others. We went into almost every game with the bookies expecting us to lose - but we would win - so often would we confound them that the Sun stopped predicting - we upset the norm and the dressing room LOVED it.
We had players who would die for each other and GJ installed that into them - and LJ was part of that camaraderie.

You mentioned the Playoff final when we lost to hull as being a direct result of LJ playing and forcing Marv to RB. Amazingly, you failed to mention the bad run of results we suffered before the playoffs when we went from top of the league to 3rd - which coincided with - guess - LJ being injured.

I could reasonably argue that the reason we needed to go to Wembley at all was because with LJ injured we slipped away.

I do agree that GJ appeared to 'lose it' towards the end, but my personal belief is that it had more to do with managing 'big egos' rather than nepotism.

GJ is a master of managing the underdog. He is not so good at managing big-name charlies who's agent earns more than the manager.

Morning R&W.

The 'bounce' effect is hard to explain, it doesn't work on every occasion or we'd have all one the 'pools' a long time ago. I could mention umpteen other teams who have done well and equally others like you mention that it had no effect, it's obviously not an exact science. 2nd season syndrome is another 'mystery'.
Sorry R&W, nobody will convince me LJ was anything other than ordinary L1. Without GJ that's the best he'll ever play and proof will be there when LJ next finds employment.

'GJ is a master of managing the underdog' -
Let's hope it works better at Northampton than it did at the Posh.

Always good to chat R&W - we'll agree to disagree.

I do agree that GJ appeared to 'lose it' towards the end, but my personal belief is that it had more to do with managing 'big egos' rather than nepotism.
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Spot on R&W, its absurd to blame one player for a clubs demise! Yes, LJ is in League one but so is David Noble who many people rated, Nick Carle is playing in Australia, which is League One standard and million pound hero Trundle is playing non league in Wales.

You are also correct to say, prior to play offs, we weren't playing well as R/p suggests, I think he is blinded by the performances in the plays off, which were more down to Warnock stoking tensions than anything else. Our best football and results was certainly in the earlier part of the season. I also don't buy the fact LJ lost us the play off final, that's madness. First, we were one nil down at the time and the game finished as that. Secondly, Marv was non existent prior to LJ coming on anyway. Thirdly, to put the clumsy slow Vasko against either the super quick Campbell or the wily old Windass would have certainly provided hull with further chances to score, Fourthly, had Carle, Trundle or Adebola done better with the chances that presented themselves we may not be having this conversation at all. It's all theoretical anyway but mine has alot more weight (I would say that wouldn't I?)

GJ's downfall, for me, was being forced to change the way he played his game, which he struggled with. The reason I use the word "forced" is because I got the impression, and also heard a whisper, that the board were leaning on his to produce more "entertainment" as crowds were dwindling because, and you both will have seen this, winning one nil was deemed boring and sub standard. Thats why he adopted random formations and signed numerous players, the panic and fear had clearly set him. He should have gone back to basics full time, like he did when we beat West Brom at home which was out best performance that season (sorry cant remember who played and scored that day) but he didn't and only he will know why.

In which case, GJ was for sure the architect of his own downfall here. He raised expectations beyond a level for too many fans to cope with. Had he merely survived a few season and started to build, the pressure would not have been so great. But that's all history now. We are where we are at present and, in my opinion, deservedly so!

What we need is someone to come in and shake the place again and galvanise the club just like GJ did at that time. Hopefully, McInnes will do just that if appointed.

GJ will sort Northants out, he has started getting a good run of results there recently.

As for LJ, he has been a good servant here and, what worried me about Keef were his comments about LJ's loan to Chesterfield "Lee will enjoy it there as they play a good passing game" which of course, we did not under Keef!

For a club who has never won anything of note, we dont have expect alot out of people with not much to offer in return.

Your last comment Redside, is undeniable and wholly accurate.
It is also the most under-acknowledged fact surrounding our club, and if our glass-half-empty fans would only bear it in mind we would be a much happier bunch, because every step forward would be seen as a triumph rather than something which should have happened last year. It helps going to clubs like West Ham, Wolves and even Coventry, who all have bigger set-ups and a more eminent history than our club.

Not that I see that in itself as a problem, because I would rather support BC than Man U or Chelsea, but a little reality and humility is good sometimes. It helps to appreciate the good times if we can keep things in perspective.
Rather than looking bitterly at what might have been, through a storming effort from our players and manager we shook the Championship, lost to a super goal at Wembley, and gave our fans a season to remember.
Oh, what's this ?
The glass is half full

I think both R/P and R/S have underlined my point which was that GJ was at his best with a team of 'mediocre' players.
RP pointed out that LJ now plays in L1. What about the others? R/S mentioned a couple, but what happened to Vasko? Boomboom? And our top scorer from that season Darren Byfield.
Bradley Orr is the only player from that era who has achieved playing at a higher level - and I don't know if he gets a game for QPR these days. Basso has only just managed to get back playing in the CC, and has McIndoe stll got a job at Cov?

That team overachieved - thanks to GJ - and it was a great ride, but now its time to put our expectations in order and concentrate on staying in this league