In days of yesteryear pilks would have stayed to prove his fitness, Nobody would have taken a risk on him till he did so, Nor would pilks have a range rover sport ? Not playing in the third tier.
I do wonder if Town could have increased the fee if they had let him join the Foxes ? Instead of cutting their nose off to spite their face, Selling only to prem clubs.
38 Years
You will be able to find out the transfer fee if you read the club's accounts. Trouble is the 2011 / 12 season ones will not be published until around December 2012! Also they will only show the total in the year without a break down for individual players.
As it is a limited company the accounts need to be filed at Companies House from where they can be purchased - only costs a pound.
I got the 2009 /10 season ones which were filed at the end of last year. We paid out over £1m in transfer fees that season (and got in next to nothing). I don't recall specifically who we signed in that season but I imagine Rhodes was a large part of it with Pilkington being signed in the 2008 / 09 season.
The accounts make very interesting reading for a number of other reasons - they show the overall wage bill and turnover and suggest that we would need to make significant cuts to be able to operate within the cap that is now being talked about.
They also show just how much Hoyle has put in to the club (£8m at that point), which I expect will only have increased in the last season. Interestingly Davy still had about £3m outstanding of loans that he had made to the club at the end of that season. If they have been paid back now it will only have been possible by Hoyle putting yet more money into the club.
You may be peeved at him not disclosing the Pilkington figures but with all he has put into the club I fully respect his decision to withold any information he wants.
u seen pilks twitter profile pic? pfffttt grunt
Cryer,
What a load of old cobblers. Stop trying to pull the rug from under Clarky's feet. As manager Clark decides which players he wants and he was responsible for signing Pilkington the month after he was appointed manager.
As Manager he takes all the flak when things go wrong, so give the bloke some credit for making the club a couple of million on the transfer market.
You'll be telling us next that Clarky had nowt to do with signing Peltier and that it was you and 38 who spotted him first.
comment by Town Fan (U4903)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
In Deano's statement is says "Multi Million Pound deal". So I'd take that at meaning more than £1M.
===================
Town_Fan, that's not what he said. He said that it could bea multi-million pound deal.
I suspect that the deal is for much less than £1 million and there are large add ons for games played, ie for proving his fitness.
i suspect the deal is the bare minimum that would trigger pilkingtons agent to be able to talk to another club..
the add ons that may or may not come our way dont count for very much at the moment..
dean appears to be getting a spanking in the world of professional football.. sad to say and witness..
by the way dean hoyles lends the club money.. same as davy and same as any chairman...he might do it a bit cheaper, but its still a loan..
he might be a town fan but he is not "the second coming" and will not be sainted...
If either Davy's or Hoyle's loans to the club incurred interest it would show in the accounts. It doesn't. There is a further loan of just under £1m which incurs interest. I believe that is a loan from KSDL in respect of completing the lower tier of the FM stand. How that got on to Town's balance sheet rather than KSDL's is a mystery to me.
I don't believe Hoyle is expecting to be knighted or made a saint or whatever. He has however made those loans with little realistic chance of them being paid back in the short term.
I wouldn't quibble if he used the money from Pilkington's and Peltier's sales to pay back part of what he has put in but that would still leave a shortfall on the wages bill to cover for the coming season which can only realistically be funded if he put the loan back in again. I expect he will use the sales receipts to fund this year's shortfall rather than have to anti up further money. As such I don't expect any big name signings as some appear to be. I wouldn't complain if I was wrong though!
The only chance Hoyle has of seeing his money again is if we become established in the Championship so that the income matches the outgoings and he finds someone else prepared to buy his shares (or part of them) and as part of that deal money comes in to pay the loans back.
comment by 38YEARS (U5913)
posted 58 minutes ago
by the way dean hoyles lends the club money.. same as davy and same as any chairman...he might do it a bit cheaper, but its still a loan..
he might be a town fan but he is not "the second coming" and will not be sainted...
========================
Of course 38, I have dealt with similar situations throughout my working life.
They way that it goes is that Hoyle will have a balance sheet "Current Account. Anything that Hoyle pays for will be Cr Hoyle's current account, which means the club owes Hoyle the money.
Then what will happen the club will pay Hoyle interest on the balance of the current account, usually on a monthly basis and usually a significant amount of percentage points above the Bank of England base rate. Quite a good investment if you ask me.
Most people thinks that the sun shines out of Hoyle's backside but there's more to it than meets the eye.
The sh-t hit the fan all those years ago when Ruberry wanted the balance on his Current Account settling to pay for his Caribbean Island pad.
TC..
i have nothing against dean hoyle, apart from he does appear to be a wee bit out of his depth in the world of pro football.. its probably why he went with and has stuck with lee clark..
but as a business man he must have taken full advice before taking over the club and must have protected his "investment" ...
he should also know you cant fool the long standing fans with t shirts and waffle, smoke and mirrors..
Berkshire the players we paid for that season would have been
Rhodes
Peltier
Simpson
Robinson
and i believe we also paid some money to gateshead as Novak hit an appearence bonus or something
that year Kay,Clarke also came to the club but i think they were free
Peltier was nominal
Rhodes £250k plus add ons
Simpson £300k
Robinson £250k
Krystian Pearce - undisclosed
Dean Heffernan - undisclosed
All outs were Free. Dean Heffernan was end of contract
Cryer
You're right in that the club will owe Hoyle the money that he is currently spending but wrong in that he is charging interest on it (see my earlier post).
As such it would hardly class as a good investment particularly when repayment of the capital is also questionable.
Yes Rubery wanted to get some of his money back hence the Stewart sale but the trouble is when you are a director you can't just pay yourself in 'preference' to other creditors of the club - if the club becomes insolvent it's illegal. As a result Rubery had to write off his substantial loans (more than Hoyle has currently put in) when the club went into Administration.
He could have claimed a few pennies for every pound he was owned as other creditors were paid but I believe chose not to. Whereas when our near neighbours were in Administration the money Bates was owed was used to ensure the club was sold to the invisible man aka his shadow.
Hoyle will be well aware of how vulnerable his loan is and that is why he will only put in as much as he is prepared to lose. It means the pressure to get promoted to the Championship where he believes the club can pay its way without him needing to keep putting his hand in his pocket is even greater - the club is running out of chances.
Oh Cryer, thanks for those numbers they tie in with the c£1m I mentioned from the accounts.
38 Years
Ken 'protected' his loan by transferring the stadium shares. Even if he wanted to there is nothing Hoyle could do to secure his loans unless he wanted to follow Bate's example which I would doubt.
You believe he is being given the run around. I think he is fully aware of what he is doing but just hope that the promotion comes before we come to the end of the funds he is prepared to lose.
All this talk about Pilkington asking to move last week seems a litle strange now I have read one of his fellow pro and ex team mates tweet.
It says "congrats on the move now it's out in the open ha ha"
Maybe it has been known for quite some time and the fans have been kept well in the dark again by the club!
At least Dean Hoyle came out good in all this, in my eyes, because it shows we wont stand in a players way if they want to better their career. Good on you Deano, as no point trying to stand in a players way! Take note Mr Levy at Spurs
We received enquiries for Pilks from quite a few teams which enabled us to hold out for an offer we thought was reasonable. From what I've been told it stands at around £2m now and what could be an extra £0.75m in add ons through the course of his career. I would have rather kept him but that is a bloody good deal. The fact we got more for Pilks that Brighton got for Bennett does surprise me though!
BerksTerrier, theres ways and means of hiding the interest payments.
Inter, I put it out last January that Pilkington had a 'done deal' with a Championship club.
Well, it's well and truly done now.
Norwich are skating on thin ice buying all of these relatively inexperienced and untried lower league players to play Premier League football.
Pilkington will have to buk up with defensive side of his game otherwise there's gonna be laughter and hysterics watching MOTD next season
I remember that Mr C and you got slated for that too from a few Folk on here. I'm happy for anyone to look after themselves and their career, as I know I have done in the past, so good luck to him and we move on.
We all wait now to see what, if any, players will be brought in.
2 new signings will be announced tomorrow if the formalities can be completed today, haven't got a clue who they are though. There's also a nasty rumour on DATM from a usually reliable source (knew about Pelts and Pilks long before they happened) that Robbo is refusing to sign a new contract and wants out.
2 new players??
Where ya heard that one Cas?
Am intrigued
Same lad on DATM who was in the know on the 2 deals last week. Very cryptic but it seems we may be getting 2 new lads in tomorrow as well.
Cryer
Yes there are ways (around paying interest) but in a document he has signed which he knows will be on public record I am prepared to believe Hoyle when he states the only interest paid is on the KSDL loan.
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Pilks leaves us...........
Page 2 of 3
posted on 6/7/11
In days of yesteryear pilks would have stayed to prove his fitness, Nobody would have taken a risk on him till he did so, Nor would pilks have a range rover sport ? Not playing in the third tier.
I do wonder if Town could have increased the fee if they had let him join the Foxes ? Instead of cutting their nose off to spite their face, Selling only to prem clubs.
posted on 6/7/11
38 Years
You will be able to find out the transfer fee if you read the club's accounts. Trouble is the 2011 / 12 season ones will not be published until around December 2012! Also they will only show the total in the year without a break down for individual players.
As it is a limited company the accounts need to be filed at Companies House from where they can be purchased - only costs a pound.
I got the 2009 /10 season ones which were filed at the end of last year. We paid out over £1m in transfer fees that season (and got in next to nothing). I don't recall specifically who we signed in that season but I imagine Rhodes was a large part of it with Pilkington being signed in the 2008 / 09 season.
The accounts make very interesting reading for a number of other reasons - they show the overall wage bill and turnover and suggest that we would need to make significant cuts to be able to operate within the cap that is now being talked about.
They also show just how much Hoyle has put in to the club (£8m at that point), which I expect will only have increased in the last season. Interestingly Davy still had about £3m outstanding of loans that he had made to the club at the end of that season. If they have been paid back now it will only have been possible by Hoyle putting yet more money into the club.
You may be peeved at him not disclosing the Pilkington figures but with all he has put into the club I fully respect his decision to withold any information he wants.
posted on 6/7/11
u seen pilks twitter profile pic? pfffttt grunt
posted on 6/7/11
Cryer,
What a load of old cobblers. Stop trying to pull the rug from under Clarky's feet. As manager Clark decides which players he wants and he was responsible for signing Pilkington the month after he was appointed manager.
As Manager he takes all the flak when things go wrong, so give the bloke some credit for making the club a couple of million on the transfer market.
You'll be telling us next that Clarky had nowt to do with signing Peltier and that it was you and 38 who spotted him first.
posted on 6/7/11
comment by Town Fan (U4903)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
In Deano's statement is says "Multi Million Pound deal". So I'd take that at meaning more than £1M.
===================
Town_Fan, that's not what he said. He said that it could bea multi-million pound deal.
I suspect that the deal is for much less than £1 million and there are large add ons for games played, ie for proving his fitness.
posted on 6/7/11
i suspect the deal is the bare minimum that would trigger pilkingtons agent to be able to talk to another club..
the add ons that may or may not come our way dont count for very much at the moment..
dean appears to be getting a spanking in the world of professional football.. sad to say and witness..
posted on 6/7/11
by the way dean hoyles lends the club money.. same as davy and same as any chairman...he might do it a bit cheaper, but its still a loan..
he might be a town fan but he is not "the second coming" and will not be sainted...
posted on 6/7/11
If either Davy's or Hoyle's loans to the club incurred interest it would show in the accounts. It doesn't. There is a further loan of just under £1m which incurs interest. I believe that is a loan from KSDL in respect of completing the lower tier of the FM stand. How that got on to Town's balance sheet rather than KSDL's is a mystery to me.
I don't believe Hoyle is expecting to be knighted or made a saint or whatever. He has however made those loans with little realistic chance of them being paid back in the short term.
I wouldn't quibble if he used the money from Pilkington's and Peltier's sales to pay back part of what he has put in but that would still leave a shortfall on the wages bill to cover for the coming season which can only realistically be funded if he put the loan back in again. I expect he will use the sales receipts to fund this year's shortfall rather than have to anti up further money. As such I don't expect any big name signings as some appear to be. I wouldn't complain if I was wrong though!
The only chance Hoyle has of seeing his money again is if we become established in the Championship so that the income matches the outgoings and he finds someone else prepared to buy his shares (or part of them) and as part of that deal money comes in to pay the loans back.
posted on 6/7/11
comment by 38YEARS (U5913)
posted 58 minutes ago
by the way dean hoyles lends the club money.. same as davy and same as any chairman...he might do it a bit cheaper, but its still a loan..
he might be a town fan but he is not "the second coming" and will not be sainted...
========================
Of course 38, I have dealt with similar situations throughout my working life.
They way that it goes is that Hoyle will have a balance sheet "Current Account. Anything that Hoyle pays for will be Cr Hoyle's current account, which means the club owes Hoyle the money.
Then what will happen the club will pay Hoyle interest on the balance of the current account, usually on a monthly basis and usually a significant amount of percentage points above the Bank of England base rate. Quite a good investment if you ask me.
Most people thinks that the sun shines out of Hoyle's backside but there's more to it than meets the eye.
The sh-t hit the fan all those years ago when Ruberry wanted the balance on his Current Account settling to pay for his Caribbean Island pad.
posted on 6/7/11
TC..
i have nothing against dean hoyle, apart from he does appear to be a wee bit out of his depth in the world of pro football.. its probably why he went with and has stuck with lee clark..
but as a business man he must have taken full advice before taking over the club and must have protected his "investment" ...
he should also know you cant fool the long standing fans with t shirts and waffle, smoke and mirrors..
posted on 6/7/11
Berkshire the players we paid for that season would have been
Rhodes
Peltier
Simpson
Robinson
and i believe we also paid some money to gateshead as Novak hit an appearence bonus or something
that year Kay,Clarke also came to the club but i think they were free
posted on 6/7/11
Peltier was nominal
Rhodes £250k plus add ons
Simpson £300k
Robinson £250k
Krystian Pearce - undisclosed
Dean Heffernan - undisclosed
All outs were Free. Dean Heffernan was end of contract
posted on 7/7/11
Cryer
You're right in that the club will owe Hoyle the money that he is currently spending but wrong in that he is charging interest on it (see my earlier post).
As such it would hardly class as a good investment particularly when repayment of the capital is also questionable.
Yes Rubery wanted to get some of his money back hence the Stewart sale but the trouble is when you are a director you can't just pay yourself in 'preference' to other creditors of the club - if the club becomes insolvent it's illegal. As a result Rubery had to write off his substantial loans (more than Hoyle has currently put in) when the club went into Administration.
He could have claimed a few pennies for every pound he was owned as other creditors were paid but I believe chose not to. Whereas when our near neighbours were in Administration the money Bates was owed was used to ensure the club was sold to the invisible man aka his shadow.
Hoyle will be well aware of how vulnerable his loan is and that is why he will only put in as much as he is prepared to lose. It means the pressure to get promoted to the Championship where he believes the club can pay its way without him needing to keep putting his hand in his pocket is even greater - the club is running out of chances.
posted on 7/7/11
Oh Cryer, thanks for those numbers they tie in with the c£1m I mentioned from the accounts.
posted on 7/7/11
38 Years
Ken 'protected' his loan by transferring the stadium shares. Even if he wanted to there is nothing Hoyle could do to secure his loans unless he wanted to follow Bate's example which I would doubt.
You believe he is being given the run around. I think he is fully aware of what he is doing but just hope that the promotion comes before we come to the end of the funds he is prepared to lose.
posted on 7/7/11
All this talk about Pilkington asking to move last week seems a litle strange now I have read one of his fellow pro and ex team mates tweet.
It says "congrats on the move now it's out in the open ha ha"
Maybe it has been known for quite some time and the fans have been kept well in the dark again by the club!
At least Dean Hoyle came out good in all this, in my eyes, because it shows we wont stand in a players way if they want to better their career. Good on you Deano, as no point trying to stand in a players way! Take note Mr Levy at Spurs
posted on 7/7/11
We received enquiries for Pilks from quite a few teams which enabled us to hold out for an offer we thought was reasonable. From what I've been told it stands at around £2m now and what could be an extra £0.75m in add ons through the course of his career. I would have rather kept him but that is a bloody good deal. The fact we got more for Pilks that Brighton got for Bennett does surprise me though!
posted on 7/7/11
BerksTerrier, theres ways and means of hiding the interest payments.
posted on 7/7/11
Inter, I put it out last January that Pilkington had a 'done deal' with a Championship club.
Well, it's well and truly done now.
posted on 7/7/11
Norwich are skating on thin ice buying all of these relatively inexperienced and untried lower league players to play Premier League football.
Pilkington will have to buk up with defensive side of his game otherwise there's gonna be laughter and hysterics watching MOTD next season
posted on 7/7/11
I remember that Mr C and you got slated for that too from a few Folk on here. I'm happy for anyone to look after themselves and their career, as I know I have done in the past, so good luck to him and we move on.
We all wait now to see what, if any, players will be brought in.
posted on 7/7/11
2 new signings will be announced tomorrow if the formalities can be completed today, haven't got a clue who they are though. There's also a nasty rumour on DATM from a usually reliable source (knew about Pelts and Pilks long before they happened) that Robbo is refusing to sign a new contract and wants out.
posted on 7/7/11
2 new players??
Where ya heard that one Cas?
Am intrigued
posted on 7/7/11
Same lad on DATM who was in the know on the 2 deals last week. Very cryptic but it seems we may be getting 2 new lads in tomorrow as well.
posted on 7/7/11
Cryer
Yes there are ways (around paying interest) but in a document he has signed which he knows will be on public record I am prepared to believe Hoyle when he states the only interest paid is on the KSDL loan.
Page 2 of 3