No Scouse heart you are right Young does seem to be lacking confidence so far but I was talking in general Downing appears to have no self belief.
Young could spark into life tonight, I'm sure Roy will play him.
I'll be stunned if he changes the side much, I reckon only Rooney for Carroll and Walcott for Milner.
Maybe four years ago. Gerrard of now is very limited and is not the most 'tactically disciplined' of players.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont want him to be..i think he should be the CM that pushes forward and makes things happen, he also has a good understanding with Rooney...
parker sits...gerrard pushes on...i think its Parkers legs that are more of a worry.
No Scouse heart you are right (diva)
Come here cheeky.. i knew we'd make it!!!
arh...
I can see your point on Downing however he had a few nice pre-tournament games and he can whip a cross in.
For me if we are struggling tonight i would use downing and carroll... i know you dont like it VCD but if needs must...
If it benefits England I don't care who they are.
Just want us to win and hopefully top group to avoid harder draw.
comment by scouse-heart (U3234)
posted 1 minute ago
Maybe four years ago. Gerrard of now is very limited and is not the most 'tactically disciplined' of players.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont want him to be..i think he should be the CM that pushes forward and makes things happen, he also has a good understanding with Rooney...
parker sits...gerrard pushes on...i think its Parkers legs that are more of a worry.
---------------------------------------
I agree that Parker's legs are also a worry.
Rooney has a good relationship with Gerrard - this is one of those oft media cliches that i dont buy. Yes, they bot have Scouse roots and are good friends but in an England shirt, i have seen very little evidence of this 'understanding'.
It is like one of those myths like 'Roy Hodgson speaks five languages and communicates reasonably well in three others' - does that mean he is a polyglot who speaks eight languages.
Yes, he worked abroad but come on, i can order sushi in Japanese doesnt mean i am fluent in Japanese.
Robbing_Hoody
I didn't say Gerrard couldn't. I was talking about the sum total of that Gerrard-Parker pairing.
I must say, Gerrard has surpassed my preconceptions so far in the Euros, i.e. I've always thought he's a much better player in a free role in front of two midfielders than as a central midfielder, with the positional constraints and patience involved and the frequent need to play it simple. Gerrard's great strength is his dynamism and ability to penetrate with a great pass or shot. Sometimes I've found it frustrating seeing him play too ambitious a ball too early or too often when he has been in midfield. But I've been pleasantly surprised by his decision making and discipline in the first two games. There have been one or two attempted passes that weren't really on but every player does that from time to time. I would say he has faded a bit towards the ends of games in terms of pressing.
As for Parker, I don't think he is the best player we could have picked in that position. He is energetic (though he also faded) but not that great at helping the team keep the ball for an extra pass or two before the right out-ball presents itself.
Red Russian (U4715)
I think in light of Carrick being out then Parker is our best bet there but I do think he is very overrated. The lad cannot pass.
Thing with Gerrard is people think he is indisciplined but for me he is not. I think people need to recognise that the chances are he does what he is told. If he is told to roam he can do that. If he is told to play wide left or rigt he can do that. If he is told to sit he can do that.
He can play intricate football but he needs others to do that with. Rooney and Wilshere are those people. To a lesser extent Cleveley but that opinion is based on me not seeing loads of him.
Robbing_Hoody
I'd say Gerrard is proving he can play a more disciplined, restricted game. However, it doesn't strike me as his natural game, it's a role that makes less of his assets. Having said that, as his athleticism fades he may evolve into a more considered player, as several others have.
I may have my United hat on a bit here, but I do think Carrick would have been a much better option than Parker in that midfield. He is good at defending the space in front of the defence and a much better passer than Parker. Hodgson has partially dodged the issue by saying that Carrick didn't make himself available. However, he supposedly didn't bother to talk to Carrick to clarify his stance and (at least before the likes of Lampard and Barry withdrew) made it pretty clear he didn't feel there would have been a space in the team for Carrick.
He hasn't really done it for England do far. He hasn't scored at a finals for 8 years!!!!!!!
_________________
Comments like this are meaningless. How many matches are we actually talking about? 6 or 7? And how well did England play as a whole in those matches? How many chances were created for him to score?
It annoys me when people expect strikers to score goals even when they receive no service.
And, with all due respect, Roo does not have to justify walking into the team ahead of any of England's other strikers because he shows every season that he is the best England have got. How many goals did Roo score last season? How many goals did Carroll, Welbeck or Defoe score? There's your answer...
VDC.. i want having a dig as to who the players are i meant a more route one style...
How many goals did Roo score last season? How many goals did Carroll, Welbeck or Defoe score? There's your answer...
-----------
Rooney - 35
Defoe - 17
Welbeck - 12
Carroll - 9
If you combine Defoe's, Welbeck and Carrolls goals, they only scored 3 more than Rooney alone last season.
we need to start Rooney with Valencia, Nani, and Giggs.
They set up all his goals at club level so why wouldn't it work for internationals?
Come on Roy, sort it out.
In all honesty it doesn't matter which 2 start tonight, we should wipe the flooor with this lot.
It's really just a warm up for Rooney for the quarters.
I'm guessing 3-0 no matter who starts.
"we should wipe the flooor with this lot."
Should. Probably the most unfortunate word in the English footballing language.
Not that this has any relevance whatsoever, but I get so fed up of the senseless Roy bashing...
"It is like one of those myths like 'Roy Hodgson speaks five languages and communicates reasonably well in three others' - does that mean he is a polyglot who speaks eight languages. "
Yes, it does. To be a polyglot, you only need a language to a conversational level for it to count, so he is very definitely a polyglot with 8 languages.
"Yes, he worked abroad but come on, i can order sushi in Japanese doesnt mean i am fluent in Japanese."
There's a difference between working abroad and learning a language and Roy can do a whole lot better than order a plate of fiskeboller and a bottle of Hansa. Plus, given his profile, he'd be found out in minutes if he'd lied about his linguistic ability.
comment by Mæstro (U8867) posted 26 minutes ago
How many goals did Roo score last season? How many goals did Carroll, Welbeck or Defoe score? There's your answer...
-----------
Rooney - 35
Defoe - 17
Welbeck - 12
Carroll - 9
If you combine Defoe's, Welbeck and Carrolls goals, they only scored 3 more than Rooney alone last season.
________________
Cheers Maestro. I couldn't be bothered to check those stats but I imagined they would look something like that!
comment by leopold (U10439)
-------------------------
You clearly worhsip about the altar of Roy. I did not bash Roy, i bashed the media - Roy himself has not stated that he is fluent in any of the languages the media attributed to him.
Has he spoken those five or eight languages publicly?
I have lived in four continents. I speak a few languages but i dont speak five or eight fluently.
He has not lied but he has not confirmed his linguistic prowess either. It is the media which assumes that because he coached in so-so he has a mastery of their native tongue.
I am guessing you think Capello is fluent in English or McLaren is fluent in Dutch?
did the OP take into account that England didn't play in the Euros in 2008 and Rooney had 2 broken bones in his foot in 2006 and a very bad ankle injury in 2010.......now if he doesnt do well tonight that's a different story! The one championship he was fully fit he was outstanding in 2004.....but I feel people just slate Rooney beacuse he plays for united, sad really
but I feel people just slate Rooney beacuse he plays for united, sad really
___________________
Nail on head.
As I said (red misty and salfordred) in my op "putting aside my club bias" Rooney hasn't really done it for England. By that I meant at all comps and wualifiers and friendlys. Yes I brought up an interesting fact about finals which, let's be honest, is what most history books will show ( not accounting his fitness etc). There is absolutely no bias in this statement as it is true. He hasn't really been the same player for England with his 30+ goal seasons at utd. I will be delighted if u r proved right and he finally becomes the legend he could be! But ATM like many others(inc stevie g) for England he just hasn't done it
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Rooney for England??
Page 8 of 9
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posted on 19/6/12
No Scouse heart you are right Young does seem to be lacking confidence so far but I was talking in general Downing appears to have no self belief.
Young could spark into life tonight, I'm sure Roy will play him.
I'll be stunned if he changes the side much, I reckon only Rooney for Carroll and Walcott for Milner.
posted on 19/6/12
Maybe four years ago. Gerrard of now is very limited and is not the most 'tactically disciplined' of players.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont want him to be..i think he should be the CM that pushes forward and makes things happen, he also has a good understanding with Rooney...
parker sits...gerrard pushes on...i think its Parkers legs that are more of a worry.
posted on 19/6/12
No Scouse heart you are right (diva)
Come here cheeky.. i knew we'd make it!!!
posted on 19/6/12
smiley diva fail...
posted on 19/6/12
Scouse
There you go
posted on 19/6/12
arh...
I can see your point on Downing however he had a few nice pre-tournament games and he can whip a cross in.
For me if we are struggling tonight i would use downing and carroll... i know you dont like it VCD but if needs must...
posted on 19/6/12
If it benefits England I don't care who they are.
Just want us to win and hopefully top group to avoid harder draw.
posted on 19/6/12
comment by scouse-heart (U3234)
posted 1 minute ago
Maybe four years ago. Gerrard of now is very limited and is not the most 'tactically disciplined' of players.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont want him to be..i think he should be the CM that pushes forward and makes things happen, he also has a good understanding with Rooney...
parker sits...gerrard pushes on...i think its Parkers legs that are more of a worry.
---------------------------------------
I agree that Parker's legs are also a worry.
Rooney has a good relationship with Gerrard - this is one of those oft media cliches that i dont buy. Yes, they bot have Scouse roots and are good friends but in an England shirt, i have seen very little evidence of this 'understanding'.
It is like one of those myths like 'Roy Hodgson speaks five languages and communicates reasonably well in three others' - does that mean he is a polyglot who speaks eight languages.
Yes, he worked abroad but come on, i can order sushi in Japanese doesnt mean i am fluent in Japanese.
posted on 19/6/12
Robbing_Hoody
I didn't say Gerrard couldn't. I was talking about the sum total of that Gerrard-Parker pairing.
I must say, Gerrard has surpassed my preconceptions so far in the Euros, i.e. I've always thought he's a much better player in a free role in front of two midfielders than as a central midfielder, with the positional constraints and patience involved and the frequent need to play it simple. Gerrard's great strength is his dynamism and ability to penetrate with a great pass or shot. Sometimes I've found it frustrating seeing him play too ambitious a ball too early or too often when he has been in midfield. But I've been pleasantly surprised by his decision making and discipline in the first two games. There have been one or two attempted passes that weren't really on but every player does that from time to time. I would say he has faded a bit towards the ends of games in terms of pressing.
As for Parker, I don't think he is the best player we could have picked in that position. He is energetic (though he also faded) but not that great at helping the team keep the ball for an extra pass or two before the right out-ball presents itself.
posted on 19/6/12
Red Russian (U4715)
I think in light of Carrick being out then Parker is our best bet there but I do think he is very overrated. The lad cannot pass.
Thing with Gerrard is people think he is indisciplined but for me he is not. I think people need to recognise that the chances are he does what he is told. If he is told to roam he can do that. If he is told to play wide left or rigt he can do that. If he is told to sit he can do that.
He can play intricate football but he needs others to do that with. Rooney and Wilshere are those people. To a lesser extent Cleveley but that opinion is based on me not seeing loads of him.
posted on 19/6/12
Robbing_Hoody
I'd say Gerrard is proving he can play a more disciplined, restricted game. However, it doesn't strike me as his natural game, it's a role that makes less of his assets. Having said that, as his athleticism fades he may evolve into a more considered player, as several others have.
I may have my United hat on a bit here, but I do think Carrick would have been a much better option than Parker in that midfield. He is good at defending the space in front of the defence and a much better passer than Parker. Hodgson has partially dodged the issue by saying that Carrick didn't make himself available. However, he supposedly didn't bother to talk to Carrick to clarify his stance and (at least before the likes of Lampard and Barry withdrew) made it pretty clear he didn't feel there would have been a space in the team for Carrick.
posted on 19/6/12
He hasn't really done it for England do far. He hasn't scored at a finals for 8 years!!!!!!!
_________________
Comments like this are meaningless. How many matches are we actually talking about? 6 or 7? And how well did England play as a whole in those matches? How many chances were created for him to score?
It annoys me when people expect strikers to score goals even when they receive no service.
And, with all due respect, Roo does not have to justify walking into the team ahead of any of England's other strikers because he shows every season that he is the best England have got. How many goals did Roo score last season? How many goals did Carroll, Welbeck or Defoe score? There's your answer...
posted on 19/6/12
VDC.. i want having a dig as to who the players are i meant a more route one style...
posted on 19/6/12
How many goals did Roo score last season? How many goals did Carroll, Welbeck or Defoe score? There's your answer...
-----------
Rooney - 35
Defoe - 17
Welbeck - 12
Carroll - 9
If you combine Defoe's, Welbeck and Carrolls goals, they only scored 3 more than Rooney alone last season.
posted on 19/6/12
we need to start Rooney with Valencia, Nani, and Giggs.
They set up all his goals at club level so why wouldn't it work for internationals?
Come on Roy, sort it out.
posted on 19/6/12
In all honesty it doesn't matter which 2 start tonight, we should wipe the flooor with this lot.
It's really just a warm up for Rooney for the quarters.
I'm guessing 3-0 no matter who starts.
posted on 19/6/12
"we should wipe the flooor with this lot."
Should. Probably the most unfortunate word in the English footballing language.
posted on 19/6/12
redconn
posted on 19/6/12
Not that this has any relevance whatsoever, but I get so fed up of the senseless Roy bashing...
"It is like one of those myths like 'Roy Hodgson speaks five languages and communicates reasonably well in three others' - does that mean he is a polyglot who speaks eight languages. "
Yes, it does. To be a polyglot, you only need a language to a conversational level for it to count, so he is very definitely a polyglot with 8 languages.
"Yes, he worked abroad but come on, i can order sushi in Japanese doesnt mean i am fluent in Japanese."
There's a difference between working abroad and learning a language and Roy can do a whole lot better than order a plate of fiskeboller and a bottle of Hansa. Plus, given his profile, he'd be found out in minutes if he'd lied about his linguistic ability.
posted on 19/6/12
comment by Mæstro (U8867) posted 26 minutes ago
How many goals did Roo score last season? How many goals did Carroll, Welbeck or Defoe score? There's your answer...
-----------
Rooney - 35
Defoe - 17
Welbeck - 12
Carroll - 9
If you combine Defoe's, Welbeck and Carrolls goals, they only scored 3 more than Rooney alone last season.
________________
Cheers Maestro. I couldn't be bothered to check those stats but I imagined they would look something like that!
posted on 19/6/12
comment by leopold (U10439)
-------------------------
You clearly worhsip about the altar of Roy. I did not bash Roy, i bashed the media - Roy himself has not stated that he is fluent in any of the languages the media attributed to him.
Has he spoken those five or eight languages publicly?
I have lived in four continents. I speak a few languages but i dont speak five or eight fluently.
He has not lied but he has not confirmed his linguistic prowess either. It is the media which assumes that because he coached in so-so he has a mastery of their native tongue.
I am guessing you think Capello is fluent in English or McLaren is fluent in Dutch?
posted on 19/6/12
Konnichiwa b&*ches
posted on 19/6/12
did the OP take into account that England didn't play in the Euros in 2008 and Rooney had 2 broken bones in his foot in 2006 and a very bad ankle injury in 2010.......now if he doesnt do well tonight that's a different story! The one championship he was fully fit he was outstanding in 2004.....but I feel people just slate Rooney beacuse he plays for united, sad really
posted on 19/6/12
but I feel people just slate Rooney beacuse he plays for united, sad really
___________________
Nail on head.
posted on 19/6/12
As I said (red misty and salfordred) in my op "putting aside my club bias" Rooney hasn't really done it for England. By that I meant at all comps and wualifiers and friendlys. Yes I brought up an interesting fact about finals which, let's be honest, is what most history books will show ( not accounting his fitness etc). There is absolutely no bias in this statement as it is true. He hasn't really been the same player for England with his 30+ goal seasons at utd. I will be delighted if u r proved right and he finally becomes the legend he could be! But ATM like many others(inc stevie g) for England he just hasn't done it
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