"Solid and dependable is not good? Fair enough, but its strange that you support Sagna so stoutly when the same can't be said of him. To turn it back on you, name me a bad performance from him, other than the Sunderland game. There hasn't been one that I can recall, which would prove my point that Jenkinson has been more consistent and reliable than Sagna this season. Think different if you wish, I can't be bothered debating with you anymore."

I assume you want me to name a good performance and not a bad one. Well vs Spurs (H), QPR (H), Reading (A), Montpellier (H), Stoke (H), United (A), Bayern (H) he was very good in, and these are just off the top of my head

Mertesacker is playing well for Germany. It works there not because the game is slower but because the defensive midfield protects the defense and the Germany defenders work together well. They step out with Mertesacker when someone like Bale makes a run to put him offside, they don't leave Mertesacker alone against pacy forwards etc
Even at Arsenal, Mertesacker has been quite good. He has been made the scapegoat by the media. A typical example is the Tottenham game where everyone in the media were putting the blame on him when in reality, he was very good. He was not responsible for either goal, he scored a goal himself and I lost count how many times he won aerial duels in defense or made critical interceptions.
The main reasons for his unpopularity is his awkward-looking gait and the fact that he is German. He is slow, but so are many CBs even in England.

All of those are better bets than Etienne Capoue.
=======================
Yet you didn't say why.

To begin with, I'd argue that we need an imposing figure because many of our players are.. well, small, fragile and quite easily bullied.

Nacho Camacho I rate. Never understood why Atleti let him go. Malaga might be having second thoughts about selling us their 3rd player in a row over such a short timeframe though.

Benat's been hyped, and you don't make the Spanish team if you're not good enough, I can give you that. Size/pace might be an issue, he's 5 ft 9

Illarramendi is well rated and has good stats, esp an impressive foul vs. tackle rate, but I haven't seen him enough to comment. Ditto for size/pace as w/ Benat.

Don't rate Mario Suarez even though his team's doing well. 35 fouls on 47 tackles, not good enough in my book. Gotta see past good team performances imo.

Iriney - by applying your logic in the discussion over Capoue - how is a player from a bottom half la liga team gonna improve us, and what exactly does he have over Capoue.

Song - not realistic imo. We just recently sold him (although Shakhter did Barca over Chygrynski, selling him for 25 and buying him back for 15 M), and many a fan agreed that we needed an improvement of Song, a more mobile player, which we didn't get in the end.

I rate Medel as a player but he's 5 ft 7. Even Sevilla are aware of the need or size/muscle in the team by pairing him w/ Maduro or Kondogbia, both imposing players. Now if we had Medel to alternate with Jack in the box-to-box role, id be very happy, but we need an imposing holding player imo.

Im not looking at Capoue as some sort of magic wand to eliminate all our problems.
I am not blindly hyping up a player. I must even admit that I found his tackle/foul rate is unsatisfactory, too. So I am in a kind of dilemma.

But I do believe that generally, we tend to get outmuscled in the middle w/ Arteta, Ramsey and Jack in the middle and need more muscle.

They step out with Mertesacker when someone like Bale makes a run to put him offside, they don't leave Mertesacker alone against pacy forwards etc
-------------------------------

Sorry but a holding player can cover if the runner is from midfield. Bale and Lennon both started the runs from the forward line against the back 4. That can only be covered by the centre backs and full-backs. Of course it doesn't help when both our fast full backs, Gibbs and Sagna were out.


Even at Arsenal, Mertesacker has been quite good. He has been made the scapegoat by the media.
----------------------

Mert has made less catastrophic errors. But he does not have the pace to cover either nor is he able to recover from a mistake because he lacks recovery pace. Thats a huge problem when we expect our full-backs to attack and because we play 4-3-3 our wide players cannot add anything to the defence.

Mertesacker was considered a good defender in Germany. But he was not the very top class player or he wouldn't have only cost £6.5m. His transfer fee reflected the fact that he lacked pace and that limited his options and so how you could use him. Per has tremendous positioning sense but he is no good when the play breaks down and that happens often for a team like ours that is based on attacking football with high amounts of movement.

"Sorry but a holding player can cover if the runner is from midfield. Bale and Lennon both started the runs from the forward line against the back 4."
------------------------
Watch Bale's goal again. No CB could have kept up with Bale's run. Mertesacker did very well to put him offside. Bale's goal counted because not everyone in Arsenal's defense was as smart as Mertesacker.
And Lennon's run had nothing to do with Mertesacker.

And Lennon's run had nothing to do with Mertesacker.
------------------------

No, you are not understanding my point. Neither goals started as a direct fault of Mertesacker. Verm should have covered Bale and Monreal should have run with Lennon.

But just because the initial break is not your fault doesn't mean that other defenders cannot cover the mistake. Thats what good defenders do. Thats why centre backs play in partnerships.

Thats the problem! Mertesacker does not have the pace to cover when play breaks down. And inevitably it does break more at Arsenal because of our style.

"Thats the problem! Mertesacker does not have the pace to cover when play breaks down. And inevitably it does break more at Arsenal because of our style."
------------------------------
There is another solution to this problem: buy more intelligent players who make sure that the play doesn't break down as often.

"Of course it doesn't help when both our fast full backs, Gibbs and Sagna were out."

Sagna is not fast anymore. While Monreal is just as quick as Gibbs.
Jenkinson's acceleration may be poor, but his top speed is decent.

Unfortunately thats the style we play. Barca break down just the same way and thats why they always have fast centre backs. Even converting midfield players to the role, who can spot danger and move to the ball faster.

Per would suit Stoke.

While Monreal is just as quick as Gibbs.
-----------------------
No he isn't. You saying it doesn't make it so.

" No he isn't. You saying it doesn't make it so."

I guess you haven't seen much of Monreal. That or you think Gibbs is 'Walcott fast'. Which is a bit delusional.

Monreal is very quick. That is a fact.

I guess you haven't seen much of Monreal. That or you think Gibbs is 'Walcott fast'. Which is a bit delusional.
-------------------------

Where did I say that Gibbs is Walcott fast? Don't build straw men arguments.

Gibbs is faster than Monreal. Lennon has done nothing against Gibbs when he has played against him whereas Monreal was so scared of his pace that he tried to play offside against him and was completely burned.

Monreal isn't even as fast as Baines. He is a tidy defender but pace is something he doesn't rely on! That takes away from his attacking.

"Where did I say that Gibbs is Walcott fast? Don't build straw men arguments."

You're a sharp dude Jenius. A lot of guys walk head first into that trap.

"Gibbs is faster than Monreal. Lennon has done nothing against Gibbs when he has played against him whereas Monreal was so scared of his pace that he tried to play offside against him and was completely burned."

Gibbs may be faster than him. But not by much. Tactics and what Monreal tried against Lennon is not really that relevant.

I don't think there's too much between them. He's certainly quicker than Sagna, who's lost plenty of pace.

Sagna and Gibbs are both quicker than Jenkinson and Nacho.

Gibbs is probably the fastest in our squad after Walcott.

Tactics and what Monreal tried against Lennon is not really that relevant.
-------------------------

It is relevant because Wenger decided beforehand that there would be only one winner if he left Monreal with Lennon one on one. So to combat it we played the trap. Thats the issue with Mertsesacker as well.

Sagna has lost pace. Thats why I think Wenger will buy another right back. Jenko isn't ready and too often gets caught out deeper than his centre backs.

@Jenius: It is not only Jenkinson. It is also Vermaelen and others. And every time I see Djourou play for Hanover, he gets caught too deep invalidating the offside trap at least once. This seems to be a recurring theme with Arsenal players. Don't they practice offside traps/defensive positioning?

Monreal is not quick, Gibbs is rapid.

Thomas T.

We never even played the offside trap in recent years. I think the last time we played that was with Sol and Kolo. Now both players were fast so whenever anyone timed a run, we had Ashley Cole, Kolo Toure, Sol and even occasionally Lauren able to recover.

I think a lot of this offside stuff has come from Steve Bould and our present players are totally unsuited to it.