Arab, that was 3-5 games and then we started playing kak again

I highlighted why, because the City game gave the manager a kick up the backside. It left us way too leaky in defence, since then we've been more solid at the back. We conceded 6 less goals last year compared to 10/11

I'm sorry, we've been playing horrible football for years. Not just this season.

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The start of last season was the most exciting and entertaining we have been for years. Right up until Andersons injury and the demolition at OT by City we were playing our best football for a long while.

United fans are now becoming the ABUs that speak about our decline. So many United 'fans' on here love criticising our players and our style of football. I for one am enjoying the fact that we have been regular ECL finalists, won 6 of the last 8 league titles and have some of the best players and most exciting young prospects in the league.

It's as if people are bored of success.

I for one am enjoying the fact that we have been regular ECL finalists, won 6 of the last 8 league titles and have some of the best players and most exciting young prospects in the league.
***

so does everybody else. But there is more too it than just that.

Another factor to consider.

Vidic and Ferdinand are still our most accomplished central defenders and have that experience which is all important in the position. On the other hand, they aren't that quick any more. This means we still rely on them but also that we can't afford to play a high line when they play. This has the knock-on effect of less pressing high up the pitch or too much distance between midfield and attack.

It would be interesting to explore whether there is any correlation between playing Smalling & Evans and our attacking play looking more effective (or playing Ferdinand & Vidic and sitting back more).

Thoughts?

That is it Red Russian.

I am criticising the football we play and not the players. I do not do player bashing, it's not my style.

The quality of football we play is nowhere as good as it used to be.

Would you rather lose an ECL final or a league game 7-6 in 90 minutes of end-to-end enthralling heart-pounding football...

..or win 1-0 with an efficient performance?

I'd take the win.

i think you are right RR, and ive said that many times before.

our two CB's sit deep because of a lack of pace.

because of this the gap between them and the front 2 is bigger than it needs to be.

that causes 2 problems/

1 - the midfield area between the front and back is bigger than it needs to be, this means the CM have more area to cover than they should be, which in turn means more energy is being used.

this then causes the midfield to drop deeper, which in turn means the front 2 drop deeper to get into the game.

2- because the gap is larger, it is easier for the opposition, especially if there is 3 in the middle to pass around our midfield.

RR

Yeah, that is an opinion that has been explored on here but playing a high line comes with its own hazards. We played too far a high line in that 6-1 game and since then we've played very conservatively and I can't remember too many goals we've conceded on the break since then. Must be a couple at most.

I personally think the purchase of RVP has affected our wingers due to the way he plays. Last season Valencia had one objective. Get up the wing with the ball and ping it in the area and Rooney was bombing in and would be pretty much where Valencia knew he would be. But this season, like you say RVP likes to play through the middle more and doesn't cane it upfield so Valencia has more time to think when he has time on the ball.

To be honest the purchase of RVP guaranteed us the title with his goals and also stopping Chelsea and City getting him but it also made our style of football very mixed up and he probably needs a full pre-season with our players to get some understanding with the rest of them.

The quality of football we play is nowhere as good as it used to be.

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The League table would beg to differ. I think people are failing to make the distinction between flamboyance and effectiveness.

The League table would beg to differ. I think people are failing to make the distinction between flamboyance and effectiveness.

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Exactly. We've still managed to score 69 goals in 29 matches. Not quite boring the pants of everyone!

Rob

It's about getting the right balance. You can have too high a line but you can extract some advantage to playing higher if you have fast defenders and the right mix of pressing / passing in midfield. Barcelona are the obvious example of a high line that usually works spectacularly well.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that we should play like that. Just questioning whether the relative slowness of Ferdinand and Vidic these days might sometimes cause us to play deeper than the optimum for a more attacking / proactive approach.

i disagree Rob sorry

the 6-1 defeat to city wasnt down to a high line as such.

it was down to the fact that even against 10 men we went gung ho to try and score, this left massive spaces all over the pitch, and thats why we lost so badly, not because of a high line.

had we actually played sensibly, we could have won the league.

that game alone gave city a +10 goal advantage over us.

as for RVP i dont see the major problem.

you cant blame him coming into the team on valencia's dog shiete season.

regardless who is up front valnecias role is simple.

attack your full back and get the ball in the box, regardless of whether its RVP, Rooney or Heskey in the middle.

if you get that ball in and the striker doesnt score, youve done your job.

George Graham's Arsenal team won the league, they were still boring.

If we had a few decent games and a few poor ones, I wouldn't mind at all.

However most of the games we play even at OT, we are poor.

The quality of football we play is nowhere as good as it used to be.

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The League table would beg to differ. I think people are failing to make the distinction between flamboyance and effectiveness.

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lets not confuse getting results with playing quality football.

RR

Fair enough but I think it's impossible to play a high line and also accommodate Carrick in that DM role. He is the link between the defence and attacking midfield and patrols that area and having a couple of central defenders just behind him on the halfway line would be pointless.

I do understand what you say about getting the right balance but we'd have to start playing like that with a more mobile midfield. That's not a criticism of Carrick, not at all but more that his qualities are allowing a defence to sit back and not be caught out but at the same time bridging the gap.

lets not confuse getting results with playing quality football.

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A team playing rubbish football (or a rubbish team) might snatch one or two victories in a season; they certainly won't produce a record breaking points tally and score 100 goals by March.

You are on course to win the premier league with a record points tally, whatever way you look at it, that is a great achievement. What I didn't realise is that you are also on for the record of most 1-0 wins, you currently have 14.

You should only see that as a good thing though. Even when not performing at your best, you are getting results consistently. Once RVP starts scoring again and your team consider te title fully wrapped up (if they don't already), then I'm sure more freedom in your play will come.

meltonblue

Come support United and we can send our own homegrown ABUs the other way (they don't go to games anyway so your blue chair theme will be preserved)??

Having absolute dross on the flanks like Valencia and to an extent, Young doesn't help matters.

I'm sure our play would be more fluid and pleasing on the eye if Nani and Kagawa could get a run of games with RvP and Rooney.

Constant rotation doesn't help this aspect of our play, although obviously the rotation is necessary to keep players fresh.

I agree with BerbaKing11 (the name makes me hungry :'( )

I don't think we have seen our 'strongest' 11 since the 2nd half against Spurs in the 2-3 defeat.

I want to see:

DDG
Rafael Vidic Jones Evra
Carrick Cleverley
Nani Rooney Kagawa
RvP

get an extended run before I judge this squad.

"Come support United and we can send our own homegrown ABUs the other way (they don't go to games anyway so your blue chair theme will be preserved)?? "

Cheeky, feed! I go to a few United games every season anyway, only been to two this year. Has to be said, I don't think your pitch really helps when it comes to free flowing football, relaying that would be a start!

Come support United and we can send our own homegrown ABUs the other way (they don't go to games anyway so your blue chair theme will be preserved)??

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FEED!

On the issue of the high line that Red Russian raised...

When we play deeper, one thing we do is concede possession of the ball for longer periods of time. When we are sat deep, the opposition can pass it around the back as they please. A 'lesser' team, like Reading, will knock it around the back all day long there's no real emphasis on them attacking us given that their primary objective would be more in line with damage limitation.

I this is a factor in us sometimes perceiving it to the case that we are being 'dominated' in midfield, when in reality it is our set-up that allows team possession.

Given this is the case, we should be expecting to see swift counter attacking moves. Unfortunately, we haven't really seen any great counters probably since Arsenal away where Nani played in Rooney to sweep home.

Sorry chaps, I can't help being cheeky