Also you seem to think people blame her as they have a hatred for her but she was my favourite Prime Minister until I found out about her involvement in this and various secret notes about see a 'controlled demise' of certain cities. As said, she done a lot of good but this far outweighs any of that.

No, all I've done there is show that she didn't want the police to be blamed as it didn't suit. It's all there in the note she wrote.

...............

No mention of the phrase ' it didn't suit' at all TOOR.

I will put that down to the old 'tin foil hat' bit of artistic licence on your behalf, yes?

Governments create social disparity.

http://news.uk.msn.com/trending-blog/tory-mp-it’s-hard-to-shed-a-tear-for-hugo-chavez-venezuela-154098

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2289326/How-typical-Left-idolise-despot-gloried-attacking-America-Britain.html

comment by Jay. (U16498) posted 37 seconds ago
No, all I've done there is show that she didn't want the police to be blamed as it didn't suit. It's all there in the note she wrote.

---

Or it shows that the police report dispelling any blame from the police, was falsified. Could you imagine her come out and saying, I know the police have done a report, but I'm not going to listen to the report from the senior most officers, and despite very little evidence to the contrary I'm going to condemn the police?

If she didn't know the data was falsified, she can't be held accountable for the cover up...Just because she was PM at the time doesn't mean everything is her fault...
------------------------
Just like the people who told us it was all a conspiracy that the police covered it up, Thatchers role will come out and they'll once again feel stupid. VC was one of them on here. He often peddled that line, he's a loud voice on here on this topic too, he'll soon be left backtracking again, when it unfolds.

There are idiots all over the political spectrum who mock death, its not really surprising. Still the fact that people celebrate the serious matter of death in such vile and degrading ways as we have recently seen following Chavez's and especially Thatcher death is not a good reflection upon our society.
-----------------------------------------------------
redboy, i read your original post and you made some valid points, however, thatcher helped create this society and is simply reaping the benefits.

Its one rule for one and one for another.

Two political leaders who died, both polarizing opinion at home and abroad.

A left winger dies and the right mock it.

A right winger dies and the left mock it, but somehow this is utterly wrong and they should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm not stating 100% that she was, or wasn't involved in it. It is just, to date, I've seen very little evidence to implicate her in it. If she was involved, as you say, it will come out. But cherry picked quotes that offer nothing substantial at all if you look at it from another angle, instead of getting it to suit your agenda, mean very little.

She may have been involved, she may not. I will believe she is innocent until presented with actual evidence to the contrary. If she was lied to, then she cannot be held accountable, and I find it unlikely that she knew.

VC, it seems Righteous has you bang to rights on the 'Chavez' issue. He was indeed derided by many - mainly the right.

I never believed what the propaganda machine said about Chazvez anyway. He was no doubt eccentric but his policies were very progressive for Venezuala, a true 'democrat'.

MARK

That I admit is a good and fair point, part her legacy is a sadly one of moral decline and people celebrating her death is an indicator of this.

VC, it seems Righteous has you bang to rights on the 'Chavez' issue. He was indeed derided by many - mainly the right.

.................

Not really, I assumed he was on about the Tory party. I don't remember any of them mocking his death, hense my comment.

............

Never saw Greg Hands comment before, but it was hardly mocking, was it. Unless of course he was dancing naked at a street party.

You know someone is a totally arrogant idiot when they type: Explain, with evidence.

While LFC fans have a right to be disgusted with the regime of the day (Thatcher & others), surely celebrating her death is a disgusting act .

The attempted cover up was also a disgusting act but that was the aftermath. The events of the day happened and not because of Thatcher or any other politician.

comment by redboychris (U3975)
posted 3 minutes ago
MARK

That I admit is a good and fair point, part her legacy is a sadly one of moral decline and people celebrating her death is an indicator of this.

................

Not sure I would label the start of moral decline in the Thatcher Years.

I would attribute that to the Blair years, and the welfare society his government created, and adopting the EU's human Rights act.

comment by Javier-Stevie&Xabi (U7411)
posted 2 minutes ago
You know someone is a totally arrogant idiot when they type: Explain, with evidence.

...................

You know someone is a complete idiot if they take things as gospel without checking the evidence first.

What makes me laugh is, LFC fans were mocking Man Utd fans for "allegedly" singing songs about a minute silence at Stoke, where they were respecting a dead 14 year teenager, even though no LFC fan even knows the teenager - yet they will say all this stuff about a dead 87yr old woman.

How contradicting do you want to get?

I keep reading thatcher did a lot of good for "this country as a whole", why don't people say "parts of this country" or "those who were with us" as she put it?
Heavy industry was decimated because of her war on the unions, and has never recovered.

"We had to fight the enemy without in the Falklands. We always have to be aware of the enemy within, which is much more difficult to fight and more dangerous to liberty" ...........thatcher on striking miners.

How does it suit my agenda if I didn't actually have a dislike of her time in power until she actually was involved in the cover up. Ihave no agenda or at least I didn't.

How does it suit my agenda if I didn't actually have a dislike of her time in power until she actually was involved in the cover up. Ihave no agenda or at least I didn't.

---

You are just assuming she was part of the cover up by using twisted quotes, and little to no evidence... It appears to me, that just because she was pm at the time, she is guilty of facilitating the cover up when there is no possible way you can know...

Not sure I would label the start of moral decline in the Thatcher Years.

I would attribute that to the Blair years, and the welfare society his government created, and adopting the EU's human Rights act.


Yes Blair and New Labour have to shoulder their fair share of the blame but don't a lot of Thatcher's supporters proudly claim that Thatcher forced the creation of New Labour as Labour was forced to adopt many of her ideals? Also another indicator of moral decline you could argue is shown by the reckless attitude and actions of various businesses leaders, banks, top bankers and stockbrokers which helped to cause the financial crisis. The constant pursuit of material goods ties in with this. This may well be more of a general Western World problem but Thatcher's decision to completely and utterly deregulate the British financial markets helped to create this situation.

TOOR,

dare i say it could be that the families who were affected are actually looking for someone to blame so they could get some closure and peace on the whole situation, and as Thatcher was PM at the time, she is the obvious candidate??

MARK...you cannot make omelette without breaking eggs!

Look at parts of Liverpool now, look at the Dock areas & other parts where regeneration has occurred and the old dirty industries of yester-year have gone.

Countries have to move on. We cannot compete in many of these industries, a lot of which were tapping into resources that have/will run out.

The economy has been rebalanced, more service industries and more room for private enterprise. The balance is still not right but these changes had to come at some time otherwise the world would have left the UK behind.

I didn't use a twisted quote it was a quote taken from her notes signed with her initials. As I said before the beginning of the evidence is coming out and the rest will follow. It's fine if you don't believe it with no stonecold evidence yet, I've seen that before and I know what the outcome will be. Theres no point in me repeating myself, I'll just say, you were told. You'll find in future that it's the truth.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by redboychris (U3975)
posted 3 minutes ago
MARK

That I admit is a good and fair point, part her legacy is a sadly one of moral decline and people celebrating her death is an indicator of this.

................

Not sure I would label the start of moral decline in the Thatcher Years.

I would attribute that to the Blair years, and the welfare society his government created, and adopting the EU's human Rights act.

==================================

Ha Ha Ha, VC. I love your chutzpah - even when you are so wrong.

Blair did not create the welfare society - in fact, a lot have to be attributed to thatcher. The big newsplash of the past few weeks - politically i.e- has been about 'welfare reform' and news today suggests after the welfare reform, the govt is merely getting back just over 100m pounds per year - way , way less than the billions the rightwing press will have you believe.

As for they Human Rights act - oh, come on! You are smarter than that!
e in helping to promote a wider understanding of human rights.

There is certainly a negative public perception of the Human Rights Act, as there is with health and safety, [which is] for example, often cited as 'political correctness gone mad'

For example, does the tabloid lynch mob that regularly villipends the Human rights act tell you of the following benefits:


The right to life – protects your life, by law. The state is required to investigate suspicious deaths and deaths in custody.
The prohibition of torture and inhuman treatment – you should never be tortured or treated in an inhuman or degrading way, no matter what the situation.
Protection against slavery and forced labour – you should not be treated like a slave or subjected to forced labour.
The right to liberty and freedom – you have the right to be free and the state can only imprison you with very good reason – for example, if you are convicted of a crime.
The right to a fair trial and no punishment without law - you are innocent until proven guilty. If accused of a crime, you have the right to hear the evidence against you, in a court of law.
Respect for privacy and family life and the right to marry – protects against unnecessary surveillance or intrusion into your life. You have the right to marry and raise a family.
Freedom of thought, religion and belief – you can believe what you like and practise your religion or beliefs.
Free speech and peaceful protest – you have a right to speak freely and join with others peacefully, to express your views.
No discrimination – everyone’s rights are equal. You should not be treated unfairly – because, for example, of your gender, race, sexuality, religion or age.
Protection of property, the right to an education and the right to free elections – protects against state interference with your possessions; means that no child can be denied an education and that elections must be free and fair.


The reportage of the human rights in the press is very damaging … it is extremely one-sided and it needs to be challenged as strongly as possible, because a lot of the negative stories ... actually have been about rather bizarre cases, and often those cases have failed and been thrown out of court, yet that is not reported!!

dare i say it could be that the families who were affected are actually looking for someone to blame so they could get some closure and peace on the whole situation, and as Thatcher was PM at the time, she is the obvious candidate??
------------------------------------------------------
Everyone knows syp are to blame, but her part in the "cover up" is to her eternal shame, government are elected by the people to serve people, this fact is lost on too many.