We have the Glasgow Derby next year though
They made a choice
Most fans though the whole set was a joke 87% I think.
The truth is we missed a bullet with this and we have 2 clubs to thank.
As for redistributing wealth then why not propose this on its own
And if you were a fan of the crazy change for the sake of change to the league then you should really be writing to Milne and Lawell who for some strange reason decided 11-1 should stay.
The chucked it in a s wee bribe at the last second..
Good article similar to my thoughts. The format of the league was not the issue here it was the distribution of funds down to the lower leagues.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I thought most fans were against the proposed changes anyway?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Nicely put as per usual Tafka
Clubs seemed to be devastated at this not going through and you have to wonder why ?
St mirren were lucky to escape relegation this year given that Dundee were shoe horned in .
Both clubs look likely candidates for relegation so you would have thought it would have suited them more than anyone in the SPL
comment by gusger (U8043)
posted 1 minute ago
I thought most fans were against the proposed changes anyway?
===
they were
And they were correct to be
It would have made us even more of a laughing stock.
If they want playoffs (and I do) then get it done
If they want to redistribute money then get it done.
But no 8 8 8 pash
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
So have simple play offs at seasons end then, whats to stop them still distributing the money if they are feeling so generous towards the lower leagues.They made a totlal baws of selling the change to fans.
------------
I absolutely agree Zach but this was about a re branding exercise not just about throwing in the play-offs.
This was a statement that the SPL (as we know it) was dying and this new change would be sold to sponsors as the time to get involved in the new "Scottish Premiership" (copyright Tafka :o)) and be part of the re-birth of scottish football.
This would have - quite frankly generated enough interest for 18 months till Rangers made that 8 team playoff then the next season was all guns blazing for the return of the Old Firm derby and a charm offensive for all concerned about how the game would be back on track etc...
I get it. Window dressing for sure but if it brought a bit of money to the teams then fine.
Sadly the most simple task was to keep guys like you and I in the loop. To allow us to understand then - with all the info - give feedback.
It would have been perhaps too much to ask that the chief supporters groups have a rep sent to understand the plans and they then gave input but when you have poll's in the record or Sun I have to say I rarely take heed as these things are aimed at the guy who phones a hotline for a rant to be honest...
that this setup was designed to distribute money to the 1st Div allowing clubs that do come up a fighting chance to get better players and possibly survive the promotion in the first place
----------------------------------------------
ICT seem to have coped well and thats even with being relegated in between SPL spells. You could throw St Mirren in there too.
Ross County are not doing too badly this year.
If a club is well run then they should be able to survive promotion/relegation.
Fairer financial distribution is important but lets make out that an extra £100,000 is going to turn a club in ruin like Dunfermline into a fine example of how a club should be run.
I'm sure Ross County and St Mirren have their own agendas on top of saying they listened to fans but thats fine by me. Why should they be asked to bail out clubs that cant operate properly?
Scottish football is being dragged down by too many part time clubs something needs to be done to provide enough financial security to allow these clubs to operate full time and grow to level were we have a competitive healthy game.
Maybe an SPL 1 & 2 split from the rest of scottish football allowing entery only to full time clubs is the solution. Yesterdays rejection might just lead us down this path.
Why should they be asked to bail out clubs that cant operate properly?
----------
I dont think they are. The point is the excuse of listening to supporters is the main reason cited when in my view its nothing to do with it.
The same amount will turn up on Saturday as would do this time next year - regardless of league structure. The Rangers fans are testament to that fact.
"Lastly - why would teams such as St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and even Dundee - perennial teams that would be fighting in that middle 8 structure - be supportive of it if it was such a bad deal for the fans?"
SELF PROTECTION!!!!
12-12-18 with its stupid 8 middle structures.....can lead to the top teams staying at the top and the bottom teams going nowhere, thats why your killies and Dundee's were interested in it.
the current setup means one team is GUARANTEED to go down to the first division every season.
Under 12-12-18, the top 12 can remain the same 12 for fcking decades.
It stinks, its $hite, fans dont like it, and the problem you are missing here is....the fact it was all about money, THATS THE FCKING PROBLEM!!
Why is money such an issue now, cause reliance on money from other clubs and sources other than self funding at the top end of the sport has gotten to such a degree that Rangers deserting the place has fcked things, and now a rushed reconstruction plan not going through is being blamed for the death nell being tolled.
Rangers got in trouble because they spent outwith their means....Rangers banked on Champions League income coming in every season, and it fcked us when it didnt come.
I hate to see clubs fold, but Dunfermline are struggling becasue they relied on SPL income keeping them going, that incomce was never guaranteed....same goes for any club that talks about possibly going to the wall if they are relegated form the top teir...that is THEIR FAULT and the rest of the country shouldnt just agree to rush thorugh a pi$h league setup that has so many flaws but redistributes money better...sorry, but no.
12-12-18 is pi$h....no matter how much better it redistributes money, the system itself is pi$h, and a better system that can resdistribute money just aswell can surely be thought of, spoken about, discussed at length and properly debated....not rushed through coz in the short term Dunfermline have fcked themselves up royally.
SPL has been tettering on the edge of a cliff for a long time, Rangers fcking up good and proper pushed things over the edge, the vote to chuck us out meant the fall starting......12-12-18 isnt the safety net, St mirren and Ross County arent the grim reaper either.
Clubs in trouble need to take responsibility, that goes for St mirren and Ross County too......but 12-12-18 was a rushed quick fix measure, and it was pi$h
The same amount will turn up on Saturday as would do this time next year
----------------------------------------
Obviously its just my opinion but I dont think the same amount would.
Fans could be asked to buy a season ticket without knowing if they are going to be playing top flight teams all season, or after 22 games they will be playing against teams from the 2nd tier.
Obviously it would depend on how clubs structured their season ticket costs but I could see many fans just buying tickets on a game to game basis. And when people start doing that, they start missing games.
Like I said, thats just my opinion, I might be wrong.
As for clubs using the fans views as an excuse, ask Milne if he cares so much about the future of Scottish Football, why did he block a change to the voting structure earlier in the season?
The point is tafka it has been proven in two other countries that the league set up does not work and nearly killed the game.
Why could we not have all the good points without the crazy set up?
Why did it have to be all or nothing?
Those are the questions Gilmour was asking and they are the questions the media should be asking
Personally, I don't think it was a terrible idea...the problem was pushing it through in time for next season.
Teams start a season with an idea of what the outcome of their efforts will achieve...to change that with half a dozen games to go is almost laughable.
I don't really believe in the setup - if it wasn't good enough for Switzerland, then it almost certainly isn't going to work for us.
It "may" have worked well in theory, but what was done here, was to try and push through a couple of good ideas alongside some absolutely terrible ones, and the clubs were basically tool do take the full package or take none of it.
That's not how a democracy works, and the fact that there wasn't even a proposal for any alternative setup, when the majority of fans were crying out for a top league of 16 clubs, is also a joke in itself.
Change is a good thing, but a couple of good changes hand in hand with plenty of bad ones, leave us no better off imo...
the vote to chuck us out meant the fall starting
------------------------
Slightly off topic but im getting bored of hearing this. You werent chucked out! You were not allowed back in.
there were 2 interesting interviews over a couple of months with jackie macnamara. when at thistle he was against it highlighting possibly that selling it to the spl would be the easier vote. when interviewed pre utd v dons game he was all for it!
so the distribution of wealth is nonsense as thistle shouldve been all for that!
Well said Stevie.....................................It stinks, its $hite, fans dont like it, and the problem you are missing here is....the fact it was all about money, THATS THE FCKING PROBLEM!! .I agree 100%.
"Slightly off topic but im getting bored of hearing this. You werent chucked out! You were not allowed back in. "
Semantics mate...however it happened, when we left, were no longer a part of the SPL, got chucked out, voted out, whatever.....the SPL's pocket took a dunt, a big yin, thats when the panic started, thats what brought about the rush for 12-12-18 being pushed through aswell
Most fans though the whole set was a joke 87% I think
unfortunately the detail shows the total number who voted was only 7000 so thats only about 6100 fans.
may as well get a conspiracy going whats the numbers of Ross County and St mirrens seasons tickets combined
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Page 1 of 4
posted on 16/4/13
Good article.
posted on 16/4/13
We have the Glasgow Derby next year though
posted on 16/4/13
They made a choice
Most fans though the whole set was a joke 87% I think.
The truth is we missed a bullet with this and we have 2 clubs to thank.
As for redistributing wealth then why not propose this on its own
And if you were a fan of the crazy change for the sake of change to the league then you should really be writing to Milne and Lawell who for some strange reason decided 11-1 should stay.
The chucked it in a s wee bribe at the last second..
posted on 16/4/13
Good article similar to my thoughts. The format of the league was not the issue here it was the distribution of funds down to the lower leagues.
posted on 16/4/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/4/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/4/13
I thought most fans were against the proposed changes anyway?
posted on 16/4/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/4/13
Nicely put as per usual Tafka
Clubs seemed to be devastated at this not going through and you have to wonder why ?
St mirren were lucky to escape relegation this year given that Dundee were shoe horned in .
Both clubs look likely candidates for relegation so you would have thought it would have suited them more than anyone in the SPL
posted on 16/4/13
comment by gusger (U8043)
posted 1 minute ago
I thought most fans were against the proposed changes anyway?
===
they were
And they were correct to be
It would have made us even more of a laughing stock.
If they want playoffs (and I do) then get it done
If they want to redistribute money then get it done.
But no 8 8 8 pash
posted on 16/4/13
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 16/4/13
So have simple play offs at seasons end then, whats to stop them still distributing the money if they are feeling so generous towards the lower leagues.They made a totlal baws of selling the change to fans.
------------
I absolutely agree Zach but this was about a re branding exercise not just about throwing in the play-offs.
This was a statement that the SPL (as we know it) was dying and this new change would be sold to sponsors as the time to get involved in the new "Scottish Premiership" (copyright Tafka :o)) and be part of the re-birth of scottish football.
This would have - quite frankly generated enough interest for 18 months till Rangers made that 8 team playoff then the next season was all guns blazing for the return of the Old Firm derby and a charm offensive for all concerned about how the game would be back on track etc...
I get it. Window dressing for sure but if it brought a bit of money to the teams then fine.
Sadly the most simple task was to keep guys like you and I in the loop. To allow us to understand then - with all the info - give feedback.
It would have been perhaps too much to ask that the chief supporters groups have a rep sent to understand the plans and they then gave input but when you have poll's in the record or Sun I have to say I rarely take heed as these things are aimed at the guy who phones a hotline for a rant to be honest...
posted on 16/4/13
that this setup was designed to distribute money to the 1st Div allowing clubs that do come up a fighting chance to get better players and possibly survive the promotion in the first place
----------------------------------------------
ICT seem to have coped well and thats even with being relegated in between SPL spells. You could throw St Mirren in there too.
Ross County are not doing too badly this year.
If a club is well run then they should be able to survive promotion/relegation.
Fairer financial distribution is important but lets make out that an extra £100,000 is going to turn a club in ruin like Dunfermline into a fine example of how a club should be run.
I'm sure Ross County and St Mirren have their own agendas on top of saying they listened to fans but thats fine by me. Why should they be asked to bail out clubs that cant operate properly?
posted on 16/4/13
Scottish football is being dragged down by too many part time clubs something needs to be done to provide enough financial security to allow these clubs to operate full time and grow to level were we have a competitive healthy game.
Maybe an SPL 1 & 2 split from the rest of scottish football allowing entery only to full time clubs is the solution. Yesterdays rejection might just lead us down this path.
posted on 16/4/13
Why should they be asked to bail out clubs that cant operate properly?
----------
I dont think they are. The point is the excuse of listening to supporters is the main reason cited when in my view its nothing to do with it.
The same amount will turn up on Saturday as would do this time next year - regardless of league structure. The Rangers fans are testament to that fact.
posted on 16/4/13
"Lastly - why would teams such as St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and even Dundee - perennial teams that would be fighting in that middle 8 structure - be supportive of it if it was such a bad deal for the fans?"
SELF PROTECTION!!!!
12-12-18 with its stupid 8 middle structures.....can lead to the top teams staying at the top and the bottom teams going nowhere, thats why your killies and Dundee's were interested in it.
the current setup means one team is GUARANTEED to go down to the first division every season.
Under 12-12-18, the top 12 can remain the same 12 for fcking decades.
It stinks, its $hite, fans dont like it, and the problem you are missing here is....the fact it was all about money, THATS THE FCKING PROBLEM!!
Why is money such an issue now, cause reliance on money from other clubs and sources other than self funding at the top end of the sport has gotten to such a degree that Rangers deserting the place has fcked things, and now a rushed reconstruction plan not going through is being blamed for the death nell being tolled.
Rangers got in trouble because they spent outwith their means....Rangers banked on Champions League income coming in every season, and it fcked us when it didnt come.
I hate to see clubs fold, but Dunfermline are struggling becasue they relied on SPL income keeping them going, that incomce was never guaranteed....same goes for any club that talks about possibly going to the wall if they are relegated form the top teir...that is THEIR FAULT and the rest of the country shouldnt just agree to rush thorugh a pi$h league setup that has so many flaws but redistributes money better...sorry, but no.
12-12-18 is pi$h....no matter how much better it redistributes money, the system itself is pi$h, and a better system that can resdistribute money just aswell can surely be thought of, spoken about, discussed at length and properly debated....not rushed through coz in the short term Dunfermline have fcked themselves up royally.
SPL has been tettering on the edge of a cliff for a long time, Rangers fcking up good and proper pushed things over the edge, the vote to chuck us out meant the fall starting......12-12-18 isnt the safety net, St mirren and Ross County arent the grim reaper either.
Clubs in trouble need to take responsibility, that goes for St mirren and Ross County too......but 12-12-18 was a rushed quick fix measure, and it was pi$h
posted on 16/4/13
The same amount will turn up on Saturday as would do this time next year
----------------------------------------
Obviously its just my opinion but I dont think the same amount would.
Fans could be asked to buy a season ticket without knowing if they are going to be playing top flight teams all season, or after 22 games they will be playing against teams from the 2nd tier.
Obviously it would depend on how clubs structured their season ticket costs but I could see many fans just buying tickets on a game to game basis. And when people start doing that, they start missing games.
Like I said, thats just my opinion, I might be wrong.
As for clubs using the fans views as an excuse, ask Milne if he cares so much about the future of Scottish Football, why did he block a change to the voting structure earlier in the season?
posted on 16/4/13
The point is tafka it has been proven in two other countries that the league set up does not work and nearly killed the game.
Why could we not have all the good points without the crazy set up?
Why did it have to be all or nothing?
Those are the questions Gilmour was asking and they are the questions the media should be asking
posted on 16/4/13
Personally, I don't think it was a terrible idea...the problem was pushing it through in time for next season.
Teams start a season with an idea of what the outcome of their efforts will achieve...to change that with half a dozen games to go is almost laughable.
I don't really believe in the setup - if it wasn't good enough for Switzerland, then it almost certainly isn't going to work for us.
It "may" have worked well in theory, but what was done here, was to try and push through a couple of good ideas alongside some absolutely terrible ones, and the clubs were basically tool do take the full package or take none of it.
That's not how a democracy works, and the fact that there wasn't even a proposal for any alternative setup, when the majority of fans were crying out for a top league of 16 clubs, is also a joke in itself.
Change is a good thing, but a couple of good changes hand in hand with plenty of bad ones, leave us no better off imo...
posted on 16/4/13
the vote to chuck us out meant the fall starting
------------------------
Slightly off topic but im getting bored of hearing this. You werent chucked out! You were not allowed back in.
posted on 16/4/13
told to*
posted on 16/4/13
there were 2 interesting interviews over a couple of months with jackie macnamara. when at thistle he was against it highlighting possibly that selling it to the spl would be the easier vote. when interviewed pre utd v dons game he was all for it!
so the distribution of wealth is nonsense as thistle shouldve been all for that!
posted on 16/4/13
Well said Stevie.....................................It stinks, its $hite, fans dont like it, and the problem you are missing here is....the fact it was all about money, THATS THE FCKING PROBLEM!! .I agree 100%.
posted on 16/4/13
"Slightly off topic but im getting bored of hearing this. You werent chucked out! You were not allowed back in. "
Semantics mate...however it happened, when we left, were no longer a part of the SPL, got chucked out, voted out, whatever.....the SPL's pocket took a dunt, a big yin, thats when the panic started, thats what brought about the rush for 12-12-18 being pushed through aswell
posted on 16/4/13
Most fans though the whole set was a joke 87% I think
unfortunately the detail shows the total number who voted was only 7000 so thats only about 6100 fans.
may as well get a conspiracy going whats the numbers of Ross County and St mirrens seasons tickets combined
Page 1 of 4