We already have a better centre midfield than Chelsea. Ramires and Mikel are crap.
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- That is a nice way to look at it!

Bayern Munich weren't a powerhouse in Europe for years. Neither were Dotrmund, Barca or Madrid (who despite spending millions still aren't).

We need to build towards doing this. It's something we did in fact do ourselves.

CL works in cycles. Unless we are spending Madrid type money it'll take a while to be right up their again. Size of club is redundant as Barca, United, Bayern, Dortmund, Madrid, Inter, Juve, Arsenal and Milan have all had time out in the wilderness from the summit of European football.

we're not focusing on rectifying our weaknesses.
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Making bids for Fabregas and Fellaini seems to suggest we are focusing on rectifying our weaknesses.

Not in a serious manner, Ji.

Dark

We obviously wanted Fabregas but behind the scenes he suddenly became unavailable which was nothing to do with how much or how little money we offered.

People on here need to realise that there really aren't that many midfielders out there available who would improve us. Gary Neville got quite angry when talking about this fact the other day.

Fellaini may not be everyone's cup of tea but he is available and Moyes know him inside out. He will improve us and even if it's by 40% compared to Fabregas' say, 100% it's still an improvement.

Building a side that can win the CL takes time and the last 5 years just happened to coincide with Sir Alex retiring so how anyone can say that what is happening with the club is this depressing and 'Liverpool like' event is silly.

I listed a ton of young players that could be our backbone for years. That is not standing still.

People have to realise that football goes in cycles. Recently it was us at the top, then Barca, now Bayern. Eventually we'll be back up there but for now people REALLY need to take a chill pill.

Our time will come again.

in "recent" times we get dominated in the midfield not only in europe but domestically, we are not being unnecessarily negative, it is an issue that needs to be addressed.
giving the lack of creativity and drive we lack in the midfield a player the type of Fellaini is not what we need, not that he has nothing to offer.

Darren made my point in the hour or so it took to write my essay

Renegade

Please tell me which midfielder out there is realistically available who would allow us to compete with Bayern?

Not in a serious manner, Ji.
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Mate, you literally have no idea. You think that every bit of news that is made public is the entire story.

We aren't even a powerhouse in Europe anymore, our midfield is WAY TO WEAK for us to be considered as such.

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'aren't even a powerhouse in Europe'

This is exactly what I mean. There are a couple of phenomenally good teams in Europe against whom our midfield pales by comparison. We should indeed be aspiring to build to their levels. But we needn't be consumed with self-loathing until we get there.

I was actually quite encouraged by our European exit this season. Real's midfield looked far superior to ours on paper but we weren't outclassed in midfield at all and the likes of Cleverley, Welbeck and Jones didn't look as though they didn't belong at that level, contrary to the verdicts of some of our own fans.

Not in a serious manner, Ji.
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Who knows, none of us. We get fed drips and drabs by a sensational media.

Like i said on another thread... I bet the £28m bid included some hefty add-ons... Probably the same with Cesc.

We can all guess at what is going on... Some will side on negativity and think these guys don't know what they are doing.... Others will side on positivity and think there must be a reason these people are in their jobs and will get their targets eventually.

Welcome back Red Russian.

In the dark period in which you left we were overrun with morons.

This site is 10% thinkers and 90% wannabe football managers.

people need to stop getting their hot pink thongs in a twist.

ive said before Anderson and Nani will be like 2 new signings under Moyes and will do better under him then they ever did under Fergie.

Anderson looks in the best shape of his career, and i think the majority ( obviously there are some who will disagree) will admit that ability wise he has the makings of a very good utd midfielder.

Cleverley is a great option to have too, tidy in possession and decent enough ability.

the Fellaini move for me though stinks of desperation from utd, as i'd hazard a guess that he wasnt their first choice, maybe not even in the top 5.

i'd rather leave things as they are than go out and buy someone for the sake of it.

Is Fellaini better than Cleverley and Anderson, in my opinion no.

Please tell me which midfielder out there is realistically available who would allow us to compete with Bayern?

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This is the thing. Some people are complaining that we have been aiming for unattainable players who are in essence too good for us while also complaining we are interested in players who aren't good enough. It's time for a list of these good enough and attainable players.

Having said that, I do think it will be a failure if we don't emerge from the transfer window with at least one high quality midfield addition. I don't watch enough games from other leagues to pretend to have the answer but I don't buy the notion that there aren't very high quality players out there. If we can't get a Fabregas or Schweinsteiger, we ought to be putting the money on the table to ensure we get the next Vidal or Gundogan before they make their step up to a club from which they will be very hard to extract.

we're not focusing on rectifying our weaknesses.
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Making bids for Fabregas and Fellaini seems to suggest we are focusing on rectifying our weaknesses.
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our weakness is dominating midfield. Defence wins the ball well, the attackers are as lethal as any on the planet. But in midfield we are unable to retain the possession we work so hard to gain. fellani is not the answer.

most utd fans are desperate for any cm signing and it is very telling that most do not want fellani.

Robb
like i said "giving the lack of creativity and drive we lack in the midfield a player the type of Fellaini is not what we need, not that he has nothing to offer."

as to your question, we have waited a bit too late in thw window.

Rob

I think the midfield issue has become such a big issue for people nowadays that it borders on obsessive.

The obsession with controlling or dominating midfields against Europe's elite is a stick used to beat the club but English teams have RARELY done this to Europe's elite as the style of play has been something stopping this happen.

Even when Arsenal were in their pomp they were getting outplayed in the middle by top European sides. This is something people completely ignore, as well as ignoring the fact that our midfield hasn't been geared towards 'domination'.

Real dominated possession at Old Trafford but we were comfortable. Barca had all the possession against Bayern but got spanked.

The midfield is obviously an issue, but people expecting United to ever really be going for to toe with Europe's elite and dominating them in the middle of the park is living in a dream land.

This is the thing. Some people are complaining that we have been aiming for unattainable players who are in essence too good for us while also complaining we are interested in players who aren't good enough. It's time for a list of these good enough and attainable players
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trust me RR, it's a vicious circle. Then those people list Fabregas, Modric and Gundogan and say stuff like 'we're Man United and if we throw enough money at them we can have anyone'.

Wholly depressing and for those of us living in the real world we can get excited about the likes of Fellaini who will bring a bit of bite into the midfield and unsettle passing teams while actually shocking people with his.... dum dum dummmm, skill!

People do realise that retaining possession in an issue for the whole team right? Not just Carrick and Cleverley (who are coincidentally two of our better players at retaining possession ).

Agreed Darren.

Even if we bought Fabregas and even if we played him next to Carrick (or anyone) we'd still get dominated by Barca or Bayern.
My point being that there is more than one way to skin a cat. We can play a counter attacking style and defend well before sneaking a goal or two.

What I have deduced from a summer of seeing peoples complaints on here is that they all want United to win the CL but with a very specific style. Looking for perfection that no English side (due to the style of play every week in the PL) will EVER have.

Wholly depressing and for those of us living in the real world we can get excited about the likes of Fellaini who will bring a bit of bite into the midfield and unsettle passing teams while actually shocking people with his.... dum dum dummmm, skill!

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Do you have it in your mind that Fellaini is some defensive beast in midfield who is constantly breaking play up? Because that is not the case from what I have seen... the odd elbow, and losing his temper doesn't turn him into a makelele, ramires, maschrano type midfielder.

If we can't get a Fabregas or Schweinsteiger, we ought to be putting the money on the table to ensure we get the next Vidal or Gundogan before they make their step up to a club from which they will be very hard to extract.
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exactly. Not wasting money on the likes of fellani.
koke will be a very good signing and I also hear very good things about bender.

Like darren I am a massive fan of banega. And all these players are gettable imo for less than the amount being touted for fellani.

Robb

I wonder what the anti-Fellaini people would have made of signing a young Roy Keane. He was a popular signing at the time but by today's yardstick I think a lot of fans would be calling him a clogger and complaining he wasn't 'technical' enough because of the simplicity of his game.

most utd fans are desperate for any cm signing and it is very telling that most do not want fellani.
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It's really not.

I knew from the minute we went in for Cesc that, if that failed, most anyone else would be seen as a poor choice. Especially someone from England and an unfashionable team.

I watch about 20 Everton games a season due to my mate being a toffee.... Fellaini would improve our squad, I have no doubt about it. (and Baines will hugely improve it)

Banega no doubt has talent but it makes no sense to bring in such a troubled soul into Moyes' first season at the club.
Maybe if Sir Alex was still there he would be worth a risk.