i like Moyes

I will say one thing, fans have a choice now

1) Back the club, support the manager and the team and have faith it will come good.

2) Be disruptive, criticise the manager and the team and pander to the media agenda and the wishes of the opposition fans.

There are a lot of the number 2 variety on here and it is totally destructive and will gain nothing but become a self fulfilling prophecy. Get behind the club , manager and team or just leave. Most of you probably don't remember the early Fergie years but there were plenty of you then and had you been listened to, we never would have experienced those 20 glorious years of the post 1990 Ferguson era.

Keep the faith or button it.

Back the manager all you want, it isn't going to rectify hideous team selections and tactics.

It's like Moyes is doing everything he possibly can to justify all of the criticisms said through the Summer. He's made this so hard for himself and I can't fathom why.

The idea that "the players don't look like they care" is nothing short of laughable. They're trying. Although I will say Van Persie doesn't look at all interested. He's more bothered about fighting it seems. The problem is quite clearly the coaching. These aren't bad players and not scoring from open play in 5 games just doesn't fit right. I criticised our football under Sir Alex a lot, but that would have never happened under him. His true genius was making the madness of his tactics and team selections actually pay off. Moyes isn't that genius. He can't get away with playing Carling Cup defences in the league.

The goalscoring only serves as a reminder of my biggest reservation over Moyes - he ruins strikers. No striker ever truly succeeded at Everton and it can't all be down to them. Already, Van Persie looks isolated and disillusioned and I'm worried.

So I'm sorry if I'm not being a top red, but I'm being objective. I like the guy and we all want him to do well. But he's making it difficult for us with idiotic decisions. Take yesterday, why on earth did he play Rio and Evans, two guys that can't head the ball, against a player he knows all about. He should have known they'd get dominated. Or at least stick Fellaini in front of them. Then there's Rio, he's done. I'd have got rid in the Summer because I know what's coming next if we continue to see him as a starter. A further regression of the two best young English centre halfs about. He runs with a limp for fack sake. Resting our best defenders for a competition he's already written us off for? Come on, this is Hodgson-esque and he's looking out of his depth. If he is, no amount of "support the team's" on an anonymous Internet forum is going to alter the reality.

Sadly for Moyes its the psychological imbalance with him which he has to contend with.

For 12 years he lived on nothing but scraps and a shoe string budget over at Goodison. Now instead if shopping at Poundland, Lidl and Costcutter he's been handed a Gold Card to shop at Harrods and an unlimited cheque book but simply can't adapt.

That's why he went to Cash Converters and bought a second hand and a very average player in Fellaini when he could have had his pick of Europe's finest .

'One Trophy' is like a rabbit caught in the headlights of an oncoming juggernaut and simply doesn't know which way to turn. He is so in awe of his predecessors success that he puts his hand up every-time to seeking the Suits upstairs permission if its ok to go to the toilet Man-ure are in for the shock of the century by finishing lower mid table , which even belittles ' that goal' from Denis Law in a Schitty shirt that saw them play Division 2 footie in the early 1970's. Moyes is a man caught wanting at the highest end of English football. The suits have made a big mistake endorsing Sir Winos recommendation. They will live to regret not appointing Mourhino when they were in pole to do so.

I think the Moyes appointment was done with the long term in mind however i dont think SAF Woodward or The Glazers considerd that Moyes would struggle to achieve top 4 with the current squad in place.

SAF has said in the past that a team needs re building after 4 years or so. I personally think this team is half way to being rebuilt with DDG, Smalling,Jones Rafael, Zaha and Wellbeck but the midfield needs a re think and maybe SAF thought the time it would take to achieve this was beyond him.

Moyes needs to work out out his strongest side and stick with this until Jan then move on some of the average players we have and strengthen in the positions needed.

My only concern with this is we continue in this vein of form until Jan will the club trust Moyes wih the money needed to strengthen??? I dont know but of the top 4 clubs (Us City Chelsea and Arsenal) we are probably the most reliant on Champions league and Prize money

Pluto

Firstly, Moyes doesn't have an open cheque book. The club pretends that it does. The Bale 'bid' being an example of our PR campaign to try and appease supporters. The club does have money, the problem is that the person with more authority than Moyes is infact a raging idiot. United still acts like it's 2005 in theytransfer market, hence the Summer fiasco.

Secondly, we won't finish "lower midtable." We'll finish second or third. This early season nonsense doesn't waver my belief in the vast majority of players in our squad. Moyes must simply play the correct ones.

Kagawa

Moyes will be sacked if United look like missing out on a top 4 finish....the owners are only concerned about money. Finishing outside top 4 = disaster for Glazer's

Kagawa

Kagawa - Firstly, Moyes doesn't have an open cheque book. The club pretends that it does. The Bale 'bid' being an example of our PR campaign to try and appease supporters.

So Real Madrid president Perez is part of our PR team now?

Also Kagawa, how do you know, based on what you have seen so far, that we wll finish 2nd or 3rd?

Reddevil

I'm not entirely sure whether Perez actually knows or whether he was just speaking of the reports. I simply cannot believe the club made that bid for Bale. It just smacks of saying to the fans... "well, at least we bid big for Bale."

As for your second point, I can't say for certain, but I'm confident. I simply cannot believe that these players can drop to such a level. We have players like De Gea, abrilliant goalkeeper. Forget the nonsense of last weekend, we didn't even try to win. But before that, we have looked solid defensively. Vidic's form has been brilliant. We still have players like Rooney and Van Persie. Nani looks good. Carrick has been the best performing central midfielder in the league for two seasons now. Fellaini, whether people question his signing, HAS been one of the best performing midfielders in the league over the last few years. Rafael is brilliant. Simply put, there is too much quality in our squad to fail.

The problem is what Moyes is doing with these players. Rio is a liability at the moment. He's making major mistakes in every game and gets dominated in the air. We can do without. We also need to continue with the likes of Nani, Kagawa and Januzaj in the hope they all find form.

It hasn't been all bad. Like I said, the last week aside, we've controlled every game we've played.

I'd also says it's arguable to suggest that City have made a worse start than us, considering their start. Arsenal look good, but we're only 3 and 4 points behindoour supposed major rivals. It isn't the end of the world points wise.

This situation is on All-Fours with Leeds signing of Clough, and the Players attitude, apathetic approach and total reverence of Revie.(pardon the pun).

The dressing room got rid of him and i fear it will happen here!

other than yesterday , I doubt the results would have been any different under Fergie. We have suffered heavy defeats by City and lost to Liverpool lots of times under Fergie and rarely beat Chelsea at home in the league. Even the West Brom defeat wouldn't have been unthinkable under Fergie. Last season without RVP we were very ordinary.
I prefer to wait until the end of the season before making judgment.

keep moyes

If e bid £100m for Bale and Madrid only £86 , do you think Levy would have allowed the Madrid move to gk ahead? No chance

Didn't Chelsea bid way more for Modric than Real did but Levy still sold Modric to Real?

Kagawa - I'm not entirely sure whether Perez actually knows or whether he was just speaking of the reports. I simply cannot believe the club made that bid for Bale. It just smacks of saying to the fans... "well, at least we bid big for Bale."

Perez said we bid. Just because you cant believe it doesnt mean it didnt happen He has no reason to lie about it.

i heard Bale and his agent were at OT / Carrington for talks, dont know if that was true. I suspect we were Spurs' insurance policy as they had spent the Bale money even before Madrid signed him.