"It's only the car" is the very excuse that people use for Jenson Button's championship win in '09.
That's what rubs me up the wrong way about all this.
There is no doubt in my mind that Vettel is a class act but all 4 of his titles have been won under the same circumstances as JB's title.
However, Vettel is regarded as one of the all-time ggreats rivalling the likes of Senna and Schumacher while JB is branded as an undeserving world champion and the '09 season is branded as a fluke.
It's this inconsistency among F1 fans that doesn't sit right with me.
There is no doubt in my mind that Vettel is a class act but all 4 of his titles have been won under the same circumstances as JB's title.
------------------------------------------------------------
2 out of his 4 titles went to the last day when the RBR wasnt even the best car.
Uptill the summer break RBR wasnt the best car. Only after the break it became the best car when they made mods.
So can the Button vs Seb comparisions stop?
I would suggest that the Brawn in 09 wasn't the best car. The Red Bull was.
Brawn stole a march until RB copied (as did everyone) the DD and Jenson got the maximum he could while he had a performance advantage.
It's even harsh on Button, he only really had the best car for half a season, and had to drive consistently to stay in it towards the end. He still deserved his title.
Although only a nitwit would say he's on a par with Vettel.
Seb can only beat what he's up against. Statistically may go down as the greatest but in my very humble opion he may just make the top 5
I would be interested to know whether F1 know it all WTCBU has changed his expert opinion about Vettel being not as good as at least half the drivers on the grid .
The world of motorsport is on the edge of their seats awaiting his update
wayne and robin
you missed out the favourite fairytale of the infatuated hamilton halfwit club on here
----- red bull are doctoring webbers car so vettel beats him ,
---------- a kiddies ABC of fairytale books could not have done better
how embarrassing would it be if you picked a driver out to call rubbish to show off your 'expertise', and he then went and won the next 4 world drivers' titles ?
The car plays a major role. If I had a car faster than everyone elses, Seb would be the guy I want driving it. If that was not the case and he had to fight for every victory in a car not the fastest, I wouldn't want him driving for me.
The redbull has been the best car since 2009 wayne, they have won over 50% of the races they have been involved in. Immediately they ditched the cosworth engines and got the renault ones that webber helped them secure, they've blown the field away. 2009 and 2010 they had reliability problems and 2012 it was even stevens with Mclaren until the summer break.
This season their car was the fastest from the first race but were destroying their tyres and pirelli warned the grid that if they made stronger tyres redbull will blow everyone away. Once the switch was made, that has happened.
Say what you want about them but the team is just phenomenal and their model of having a clear number 1 works for them.
Everyone has to catch up now, if they do not, they only have themselves to blame.
Regarding tall and useless point, I agree with him wholeheartedly. JB is derided but won his championship the same way Seb has to be fair to jB he had a weaker package when everyone caught up to the DD.
To laugh at Button indicates a serious lack of racing knowldehe. He makes excuses and enjoys a good moan but so do other drivers and has won races in different teams with different packages and designers in the wet, changeable and dry conditions.
Something Seb has not done. When he performs at a similar level without Newey and Marko, we'll all bow down to him as a true racing great.
noodles
you are wating your breath nood -- anybody that calls a
4 x WDC rubbish is so devoid of F1 knowledge and ignorant to realise how ignorant they actually come across to others on here --
to be fair it is only a couple of members of the infatuated hamilton halfwit club on here who have only been watching since 2007 who have said it
-------- need we say anymore
man unt devil
yeh ---- webber has really blown everybody away since 2009 which proves his red bulls have been the class of the field since 2009
tall and use
nobody in there right mind thinks button is not a decent driver -- a very decent driver -
however ---- some people including me are not convinced by him because of his other flaws namely his qualifying flaw and the problems he has sometimes had in setting up his car and his absolute need for a back end that has to be superglued to the tarmac before he can drive it -
at least MUDD's got the good grace to turn up and congratulate vettel. where' WTCBU hiding ?
I think it's high time he put in appearance and apologised to everyone for pretending to be knowlegable about motorsport, and admitted that he's been making it up and that he doesnt actually have the faintest idea about F1. That would at least be a step towards redemption for the way he has defrauded the various sports forums' members over the last few years.
Is he man enough to do it or is he a coward as well as a fraud ?
Congrats to Vettel on his fourth title
Hope we'll have at least a two horse race next season so that we get a proper season finale
noodles
you are wasting your breath noodles -- WTCBU is the biggest coward and liar that has ever infested an internet forum -- he has spent the last 5 yrs following me around insulting me at every turn without provocation from myself -
he only turned up on the internet forums from 2008 onwards with his ridiculous hamilton infatuated user names the most infatuated of which was " tangled up in lew " and has been launching his little hate campaigns on anybody that dares to be objective about his little hero --
--- in reality when you actually know him very well as i do his actual knowledge is just about zero --
It is interesting to see the glory hunters suddenly appearing on a forum that for obvious reasons they have up to now steered clear of.
Fourth rate WUMS with ambitions to be recognised as third rate WUMS.
We have CAL JPM and MA suddenly praising a driver that they had never heard of 3 months ago.
CAL stated that Vettel was great because he spoke English, JPB was laughed at on the Spurs forum because he did not know what day they where playing. And MA gets laughed at by 8 year old girls. Monaco is low downforce? Is it? Maybe he could get CAL and JPB to explain that one to him.
Pretend Vettel fans make fools of themselves but lack the intellect to twig it.
Vettel has the advantage of having the full support of the team and having the car designed for him.
Vettel “rotates” his car through a corner and Newey designed the car to to help him by exhaust blowing to increase downforce. When Newey got the exhaust blowing working then Vettel dominated. When Newey could not get the exhaust blowing coanda effect then Vettel struggled.
I will happily await the more intelligent knowledge of CAL, JPB and MA to explain what “rotate” and “coanda” means.
CAL and JPB get MA to explain that one to you.
Bat Man and Robin you are a lost cause.
Newey, Rocky and the Red Bull mechanics that prioritise Vettels car should be thanked.
Poor Webber having to be doing his best in a team that clearly hates him should be admired for the fight he put up. I think that any serious follower of F1 would agree with me.
WTCBU
so now myself and others never heard of vettel until 3 months ago -
" webber is in a team that clearly hates him "
why dont you explain to everybody on here what rotate and coanda means instead of asking everybody else infantile questions that you have no idea of yourself -
------ what a pathetic hamilton infatuated phoney
Vettel has the advantage of having the full
support of the team and having the car
designed for him.
---------
cough cough Alonso cough cough
We all saw how good Massa is when he announced his departure from Ferrari and when he races without any burden.
Impressed by Vettel overtaking ability?
Really? Who did he overtake?
You are just 4th rate WUMS having a laugh.
On lap 3 Vettel came out behind Chilton
On Lap 4 he overtook him to be behind Jules Bianchi
Lap 5 car 11 pitted giving Vettel an extra place
Lap 6 car 5 pitted giving Vettel an extra place
Lap 7 cars 8 and 7 pitted giving Vettel extra places
Lap 8 cars 4 and 10 pitted giving Vettel 2 extra places
Lap 9 behind Sutil
Lap 10 behind Romain Grosjean
Lap 11 he was behind Daniel Ricciardo
Lap 12 he was still behind Daniel Ricciardo
Lap 13 He was behind his future team mate and then passed him.
Lap 29 he took the lead
WTCBU
so now vettel a 4 x WDC with all time great status cant overtake ---------------------------------------------------- but still won the race
---- keep going it gets funnier and funnier with you
--------- you could"nt make this stuff up
Filtered
Filtered
Filtered
Filtered
Filtered
Filtered
Maybe they should stick to a sport that they actually understand. Assuming of course that such a thing exists.
4th rate WUMS with ambitions to one day be recognised as 3rd rate.
Monaco is low downforce to these fools and "rotate" a car through a corner is spinning 360 degrees.
Sums them up really.
WTCBU
still waiting for you to explain to the forum what a coanda exhaust is and how a car rotates around a corner and how vettel a 4 X WDC cant overtake
--------- you could"nt make this stuff up
I honestly don't think that Vettel is the fastest driver on the grid. I would say that he is the 3rd fastest, but he is by far the smartest driver, similar to Prost. I think Hamilton is the out right fastest, and Alonso is in between them both in each respect. But as they say, you can only beat whats put in front of you, and the Ferrari's and Merc's were not fast enough
Good post Eden and I do believe 2014 will show this.
comment by Eden Oscar, Mata's puppet (U14563)
posted 18 hours, 57 minutes ago
I honestly don't think that Vettel is the fastest driver on the grid. I would say that he is the 3rd fastest, but he is by far the smartest driver, similar to Prost. I think Hamilton is the out right fastest, and Alonso is in between them both in each respect. But as they say, you can only beat whats put in front of you, and the Ferrari's and Merc's were not fast enough
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But being the fastest driver only doesnt win you races but conserving tires and knowing when to push does.
Vettel and Kimi are the masters of tire conservation and this is where the likes of Hamilton and Massa lack.
Vettel doesnt need to put fastest laps all the time. He is the most intelligent driver on the grid.
He was the only driver who visited the Pirelli factory and tried to get acquainted with how the tires were made and how they will behave during the race.
As I say every time. Just because someone is a good overtaker and is fast over one lap doesnt make him the best driver
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The "It's Only The Car" Thread
Page 1 of 4
posted on 27/10/13
"It's only the car" is the very excuse that people use for Jenson Button's championship win in '09.
That's what rubs me up the wrong way about all this.
There is no doubt in my mind that Vettel is a class act but all 4 of his titles have been won under the same circumstances as JB's title.
However, Vettel is regarded as one of the all-time ggreats rivalling the likes of Senna and Schumacher while JB is branded as an undeserving world champion and the '09 season is branded as a fluke.
It's this inconsistency among F1 fans that doesn't sit right with me.
posted on 27/10/13
There is no doubt in my mind that Vettel is a class act but all 4 of his titles have been won under the same circumstances as JB's title.
------------------------------------------------------------
2 out of his 4 titles went to the last day when the RBR wasnt even the best car.
Uptill the summer break RBR wasnt the best car. Only after the break it became the best car when they made mods.
So can the Button vs Seb comparisions stop?
posted on 27/10/13
I would suggest that the Brawn in 09 wasn't the best car. The Red Bull was.
Brawn stole a march until RB copied (as did everyone) the DD and Jenson got the maximum he could while he had a performance advantage.
posted on 27/10/13
It's even harsh on Button, he only really had the best car for half a season, and had to drive consistently to stay in it towards the end. He still deserved his title.
Although only a nitwit would say he's on a par with Vettel.
posted on 27/10/13
Seb can only beat what he's up against. Statistically may go down as the greatest but in my very humble opion he may just make the top 5
posted on 27/10/13
I would be interested to know whether F1 know it all WTCBU has changed his expert opinion about Vettel being not as good as at least half the drivers on the grid .
The world of motorsport is on the edge of their seats awaiting his update
posted on 27/10/13
wayne and robin
you missed out the favourite fairytale of the infatuated hamilton halfwit club on here
----- red bull are doctoring webbers car so vettel beats him ,
---------- a kiddies ABC of fairytale books could not have done better
posted on 27/10/13
how embarrassing would it be if you picked a driver out to call rubbish to show off your 'expertise', and he then went and won the next 4 world drivers' titles ?
posted on 27/10/13
The car plays a major role. If I had a car faster than everyone elses, Seb would be the guy I want driving it. If that was not the case and he had to fight for every victory in a car not the fastest, I wouldn't want him driving for me.
The redbull has been the best car since 2009 wayne, they have won over 50% of the races they have been involved in. Immediately they ditched the cosworth engines and got the renault ones that webber helped them secure, they've blown the field away. 2009 and 2010 they had reliability problems and 2012 it was even stevens with Mclaren until the summer break.
This season their car was the fastest from the first race but were destroying their tyres and pirelli warned the grid that if they made stronger tyres redbull will blow everyone away. Once the switch was made, that has happened.
Say what you want about them but the team is just phenomenal and their model of having a clear number 1 works for them.
Everyone has to catch up now, if they do not, they only have themselves to blame.
Regarding tall and useless point, I agree with him wholeheartedly. JB is derided but won his championship the same way Seb has to be fair to jB he had a weaker package when everyone caught up to the DD.
To laugh at Button indicates a serious lack of racing knowldehe. He makes excuses and enjoys a good moan but so do other drivers and has won races in different teams with different packages and designers in the wet, changeable and dry conditions.
Something Seb has not done. When he performs at a similar level without Newey and Marko, we'll all bow down to him as a true racing great.
posted on 27/10/13
noodles
you are wating your breath nood -- anybody that calls a
4 x WDC rubbish is so devoid of F1 knowledge and ignorant to realise how ignorant they actually come across to others on here --
to be fair it is only a couple of members of the infatuated hamilton halfwit club on here who have only been watching since 2007 who have said it
-------- need we say anymore
posted on 27/10/13
man unt devil
yeh ---- webber has really blown everybody away since 2009 which proves his red bulls have been the class of the field since 2009
posted on 27/10/13
tall and use
nobody in there right mind thinks button is not a decent driver -- a very decent driver -
however ---- some people including me are not convinced by him because of his other flaws namely his qualifying flaw and the problems he has sometimes had in setting up his car and his absolute need for a back end that has to be superglued to the tarmac before he can drive it -
posted on 27/10/13
at least MUDD's got the good grace to turn up and congratulate vettel. where' WTCBU hiding ?
I think it's high time he put in appearance and apologised to everyone for pretending to be knowlegable about motorsport, and admitted that he's been making it up and that he doesnt actually have the faintest idea about F1. That would at least be a step towards redemption for the way he has defrauded the various sports forums' members over the last few years.
Is he man enough to do it or is he a coward as well as a fraud ?
posted on 27/10/13
Congrats to Vettel on his fourth title
Hope we'll have at least a two horse race next season so that we get a proper season finale
posted on 27/10/13
noodles
you are wasting your breath noodles -- WTCBU is the biggest coward and liar that has ever infested an internet forum -- he has spent the last 5 yrs following me around insulting me at every turn without provocation from myself -
he only turned up on the internet forums from 2008 onwards with his ridiculous hamilton infatuated user names the most infatuated of which was " tangled up in lew " and has been launching his little hate campaigns on anybody that dares to be objective about his little hero --
--- in reality when you actually know him very well as i do his actual knowledge is just about zero --
posted on 27/10/13
It is interesting to see the glory hunters suddenly appearing on a forum that for obvious reasons they have up to now steered clear of.
Fourth rate WUMS with ambitions to be recognised as third rate WUMS.
We have CAL JPM and MA suddenly praising a driver that they had never heard of 3 months ago.
CAL stated that Vettel was great because he spoke English, JPB was laughed at on the Spurs forum because he did not know what day they where playing. And MA gets laughed at by 8 year old girls. Monaco is low downforce? Is it? Maybe he could get CAL and JPB to explain that one to him.
Pretend Vettel fans make fools of themselves but lack the intellect to twig it.
Vettel has the advantage of having the full support of the team and having the car designed for him.
Vettel “rotates” his car through a corner and Newey designed the car to to help him by exhaust blowing to increase downforce. When Newey got the exhaust blowing working then Vettel dominated. When Newey could not get the exhaust blowing coanda effect then Vettel struggled.
I will happily await the more intelligent knowledge of CAL, JPB and MA to explain what “rotate” and “coanda” means.
CAL and JPB get MA to explain that one to you.
Bat Man and Robin you are a lost cause.
Newey, Rocky and the Red Bull mechanics that prioritise Vettels car should be thanked.
Poor Webber having to be doing his best in a team that clearly hates him should be admired for the fight he put up. I think that any serious follower of F1 would agree with me.
posted on 27/10/13
WTCBU
so now myself and others never heard of vettel until 3 months ago -
" webber is in a team that clearly hates him "
why dont you explain to everybody on here what rotate and coanda means instead of asking everybody else infantile questions that you have no idea of yourself -
------ what a pathetic hamilton infatuated phoney
posted on 27/10/13
Vettel has the advantage of having the full
support of the team and having the car
designed for him.
---------
cough cough Alonso cough cough
We all saw how good Massa is when he announced his departure from Ferrari and when he races without any burden.
posted on 27/10/13
Impressed by Vettel overtaking ability?
Really? Who did he overtake?
You are just 4th rate WUMS having a laugh.
On lap 3 Vettel came out behind Chilton
On Lap 4 he overtook him to be behind Jules Bianchi
Lap 5 car 11 pitted giving Vettel an extra place
Lap 6 car 5 pitted giving Vettel an extra place
Lap 7 cars 8 and 7 pitted giving Vettel extra places
Lap 8 cars 4 and 10 pitted giving Vettel 2 extra places
Lap 9 behind Sutil
Lap 10 behind Romain Grosjean
Lap 11 he was behind Daniel Ricciardo
Lap 12 he was still behind Daniel Ricciardo
Lap 13 He was behind his future team mate and then passed him.
Lap 29 he took the lead
posted on 27/10/13
WTCBU
so now vettel a 4 x WDC with all time great status cant overtake ---------------------------------------------------- but still won the race
---- keep going it gets funnier and funnier with you
--------- you could"nt make this stuff up
posted on 27/10/13
Filtered
Filtered
Filtered
Filtered
Filtered
Filtered
Maybe they should stick to a sport that they actually understand. Assuming of course that such a thing exists.
4th rate WUMS with ambitions to one day be recognised as 3rd rate.
Monaco is low downforce to these fools and "rotate" a car through a corner is spinning 360 degrees.
Sums them up really.
posted on 27/10/13
WTCBU
still waiting for you to explain to the forum what a coanda exhaust is and how a car rotates around a corner and how vettel a 4 X WDC cant overtake
--------- you could"nt make this stuff up
posted on 28/10/13
I honestly don't think that Vettel is the fastest driver on the grid. I would say that he is the 3rd fastest, but he is by far the smartest driver, similar to Prost. I think Hamilton is the out right fastest, and Alonso is in between them both in each respect. But as they say, you can only beat whats put in front of you, and the Ferrari's and Merc's were not fast enough
posted on 28/10/13
Good post Eden and I do believe 2014 will show this.
posted on 29/10/13
comment by Eden Oscar, Mata's puppet (U14563)
posted 18 hours, 57 minutes ago
I honestly don't think that Vettel is the fastest driver on the grid. I would say that he is the 3rd fastest, but he is by far the smartest driver, similar to Prost. I think Hamilton is the out right fastest, and Alonso is in between them both in each respect. But as they say, you can only beat whats put in front of you, and the Ferrari's and Merc's were not fast enough
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But being the fastest driver only doesnt win you races but conserving tires and knowing when to push does.
Vettel and Kimi are the masters of tire conservation and this is where the likes of Hamilton and Massa lack.
Vettel doesnt need to put fastest laps all the time. He is the most intelligent driver on the grid.
He was the only driver who visited the Pirelli factory and tried to get acquainted with how the tires were made and how they will behave during the race.
As I say every time. Just because someone is a good overtaker and is fast over one lap doesnt make him the best driver
Page 1 of 4