Screen

Why don't you go and watch every Bayern Munich game from 1974-76 and come back and tell us how good you think Muller is?

I really dislike the matra the newer means better.

In some cases it is but in others it isn't.

I've said for a while that the standard of defenders has dropped quite a bit in recent years around Europe.

Is it down to tactics and or the attackers being better?

Hard to say.

But compare the standout defenders of now to the ones of even our recent past and they're not quite up to scratch, in my opinion.

People won't be talking about players like Ramos, Pique, Hummels, Koscielny et al., as the legendary defenders of the game.

The fact our very own Rio and Vida are still arguably our two best defenders despite being past their best speaks volumes for what is even on show at the top teams let alone the rest.

Something to consider.

I can bring up stats when the stats of messi and ronaldo are far superior to that of maradona in every shape or form.


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use stats when they support your argument, dismiss them when they don't. True sign of a troll.

Diego's Argentina team is solid unit that did not concede much. maradona added creativity. Klose nearly did the same with germany in 2002.

cup competitions are a sort of a lottery no matter how glorified they are. league is the best way to make a judgement on a player imo.

comment by Manfrombelmonty (U1705)
posted 3 minutes ago
I can bring up stats when the stats of messi and ronaldo are far superior to that of maradona in every shape or form.


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use stats when they support your argument, dismiss them when they don't. True sign of a troll.
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What stats are those?

please remember, we are talking about individuals not teams

Darren it isn't that standards of defending has dropped.It's more that the rurules have changed. When Serie A guys could kick you black and blue they would be off within 5 mins today. So skilled players could make them look silly.

Do you think Vinnie Jones could be a league 1 player today? Gentile? Schirea? Goicochea? These guys were hatchet men who kicked you for fun.

mandingo, I'm not even talking that far back. I'm talking even a few years ago, especially in our league.

JT, Vida, Rio, Carvalho, Sol Campbell, were immense defenders.

And that's just from a few top sides in the prem.

There are some very good defenders around today but I don't see there being quite the same amount of top defenders as there was just a few years ago.

The reasons for that are something I cannot really answer.

This isn't to say that every team is bad at defending, however.

I just think it's something worth considering when stats seem to be the benchmark for a player.

Brilliant article OP

I hear you. It seems teams now have footballing defenders as opposed to guys who just defended. Something had to give.

Yeah it's a weird one.

I'm not sure that ball playing defenders have arisen to the detriment of actual defending, however.

Players like Kompany and Thiago Silva are class footballer and class defenders, and it's not as if in the past all the great defenders were useless with the ball - some of the greatest defenders were adept with the ball at their feet as well.

Look at England, for example. It's not as if all our defenders are great footballers and can't defend, they aren't really that great footballers but they just aren't really top drawer defenders like we're used to seeing from English cb's.

Probably just a bad era for cb's and there will be another group of top top cb's in the future as football is cyclical.

This is all absolute bollox!

Charlie Adam today is much, MUCH fitter than either Maradonna or Pele were in their prime.

Does that make him the better footballer?

Cobblers.

"The fact our very own Rio and Vida are still arguably our two best defenders despite being past their best speaks volumes for what is even on show at the top teams let alone the rest. "

I don't get this. So just because those two are the best at your club, then it means they are among the best out there?

Darren

I guess a lot is down to the current trend of controlling the middle meaning coaches are happy for a player to offer less in traditional defending if they can provide help in the middle basically working as an extra midfielder.

You know better than most football works in cycles and the need for 'better' defending will no doubt return.

It's fine with me though because although I can appreciate a great defending I will always prefer to see great attacking play.

Swings and roundabouts it seems. We have exceptional attackers nowadays. Perhaps its that quality which makes defenders appear average.

Well they're still two of the better defenders out there. But was more a case of how the defenders at the top teams in the last few years aren't what they were a few years ago.

I think it goes for a lot of the top European club teams as well as the top international teams.

And over a longer period I'd say that Dutch, English, Portuguese, French, Italian, Argentine and German defenders are not what they were.

"Well they're still two of the better defenders out there."

Wrong. Not true at all.

1982, yeah perhaps.

mandingo, that may also be true. Then again it's not as if the better defenders of the past weren't up against supremely talented forwards either.

The same Vidic who's been playing Silvestresque one two's with opposition strikers? I'm sorry. His time is well and truly up. Has been for some time. He's been living of that 07-08 season where he was a rock.

Ok, Dubbed.

comment by Keep It Greasey (U1396)
posted 7 minutes ago
This is all absolute bollox!

Charlie Adam today is much, MUCH fitter than either Maradonna or Pele were in their prime.

Does that make him the better footballer?

Cobblers.
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you are talking cobblers

Since when do the physical attributes become less important? They are as important as the technical attributes. Modern footballers are probably better at both

considering the defender quality

I think the lack of quality defenders are an illusion due change in playing style. During 90s most teams played with 4-4-2 and most teams had some big lard up top. there were lots of crosses and flick ons and defenders had to deal with them. that made the defenders look brave/good imo.

modern football is more about playing through the middle. these days defending is more about positioning and cutting out through balls. that is as important as dealing with crosses but looks less spectacular so we dont really notice defenders unless they got caught out

comment by Screen (U8522)
posted 10 minutes ago
considering the defender quality

I think the lack of quality defenders are an illusion due change in playing style. During 90s most teams played with 4-4-2 and most teams had some big lard up top. there were lots of crosses and flick ons and defenders had to deal with them. that made the defenders look brave/good imo.

modern football is more about playing through the middle. these days defending is more about positioning and cutting out through balls. that is as important as dealing with crosses but looks less spectacular so we dont really notice defenders unless they got caught out
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You don't watch much or any football do you? Are you a curling fan? Probably the ice sweeper.

Maradona never had to deal with the pressing, team defense and tactical scrutiny
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I assume you missed the part where he was winning league titles, against the best defence in the history of the game