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Messi and Ronaldo new 'Pele and Maradona'

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posted on 21/11/13

Has he scored 1000 goals?

posted on 21/11/13

Also I was having this chat with a mate the other day. Back in the day a player would get hyped up and would constantly flop, only sometimes would they put in a top quality performance that lived up to their name. Brazil Ronaldo, Zidane Ronaldinho etc would always be guilty of this. This is what separates Maradona Pele Messi and Ronaldo from the rest

posted on 21/11/13

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

posted on 21/11/13

What's wrong with been a coke addict and a millionaire? Sounds like the life to me....

posted on 21/11/13

Godfather

When did the Brazilian Ronald flop? The guy stormed it in 3 straight world cups. You can't say the same for Cristiano or Messi.

And before you kick off, i'm not saying Messi and C Ronaldo don't turn up in big games but it's a bit weird to say that the Brazilian Ronaldo would be overhyped and not turn up.

posted on 21/11/13

*Ronaldo

posted on 21/11/13

comment by Robb : Goodbye Kenny Powers. (U9808)
posted 1 minute ago
Godfather

When did the Brazilian Ronald flop? The guy stormed it in 3 straight world cups. You can't say the same for Cristiano or Messi.

And before you kick off, i'm not saying Messi and C Ronaldo don't turn up in big games but it's a bit weird to say that the Brazilian Ronaldo would be overhyped and not turn up.
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The week cup where he didn't show up for the final he was very very average. He only really had about 4 top seasons.

posted on 21/11/13

*world cup not week cup

posted on 21/11/13

comment by The Godfather (U10154)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : Goodbye Kenny Powers. (U9808)
posted 1 minute ago
Godfather

When did the Brazilian Ronald flop? The guy stormed it in 3 straight world cups. You can't say the same for Cristiano or Messi.

And before you kick off, i'm not saying Messi and C Ronaldo don't turn up in big games but it's a bit weird to say that the Brazilian Ronaldo would be overhyped and not turn up.
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The week cup where he didn't show up for the final he was very very average. He only really had about 4 top seasons.
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I think you're wumming. He scored 4 goals at that World Cup including a very important one in the semi final against Holland. And he didn't 'not show up' for the final. He was ill on the day of the game.

posted on 21/11/13

Messi went missing in the last world cup. Ronaldo has never been found in any world cup.

The Brazil league was far superior to Europe leagues hence why all Brazil players played in Brazil when they dominated the world.

comment by Lupin (U6089)

posted on 21/11/13

Gerd Muller scored as many as Messi and Ronaldo. But critics of the time rated him much lower than Maradona. There must be a reason for that.

posted on 21/11/13

He was a pure goal poacher of the highest order. Did fack all outside the box.

posted on 21/11/13

Pele scored 1000 goals mostly in Brazil who were not known for great defensive defenders and had a league made up of plenty of amateurs...

Ronaldo, Messi and Maradonna were all up against trained professionals for whom defending is a full time job.

You just can't compare their goals fairly, I was going to say its like playing Norwich every week but I would be surprised if many of the defences in the Brazilian league were much better...

posted on 21/11/13

When Pele was at his peak Brazil could have chosen a third string team who would have won the world cup. To say he was up against poor defenders is ridiculous.

The man was often hacked to stop him. Ron and Messi would not have been protected as they are now.

If you're comparing era's then do so accurately. Look at the whole picture

posted on 21/11/13

When Pele was at his peak Brazil could have chosen a third string team who would have won the world cup.
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Talk about overrating Brazil.

Pele played against mostly amateurs in the Brazilian state championships. I don't think it is ridiculous to suggest they were poor as logic would suggest that because they amateur they were.

I cannot say this for a fact, however, as I wasn't touring around Brazil watching Pele in the 60's and 70's, as I'm sure you weren't.

But one thing I'll say of Pele is that playing against amateur footballers increases his legend more than Messi and Ronaldo playing in a league where they are in by far the two best teams does.

posted on 21/11/13

The thing about Pele was that whether or not you consider the Brazilian league to be full of rubbish defenders, he scored 12 World Cup goals across 4 World Cups against some very good defences (would have scored more had he not been kicked out of the 1966 World Cup) and scored 77 goals in total for Brazil.

posted on 21/11/13

I think that's why his legend is so high. Funnily enough, though, there's been better players at the world cup in its history when you look through it - Ronaldo and Maradona are just two of the names.

I'm sure Pele would have been great in any league or era. But from my knowledge of him there is a lot of hype and revisionism of him.

posted on 21/11/13

quick question to everyone

What does a player has to do be considered equal to Pele and Maradona?

apart from going back in time to play with a heavy ball on a crppy pitch where two footed challenges are allowed

posted on 21/11/13

What does a player has to do be considered equal to Pele and Maradona?
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Be Messi.

posted on 21/11/13

so messi is equal to Pele and Maradona?

posted on 21/11/13

comment by Screen (U8522)
posted 2 minutes ago
quick question to everyone

What does a player has to do be considered equal to Pele and Maradona?

apart from going back in time to play with a heavy ball on a crppy pitch where two footed challenges are allowed
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They need to at least do something at a World Cup as well as their club career.

IMO Messi is great but is made much greater by having Iniesta and Xavi behind him. There is no shortage of talent in the Argentinian side but unfortunately no one as good as Xavi or Iniesta to bring the best out of Messi.

If Ronaldo was the greatest of all time then he should have it in himself to take a World Cup by storm like other players in less-strong teams have.

posted on 21/11/13

In my opinion, yes.

What often goes unnoticed is that in these arguments people always look to claim one player hasn't done this so isn't as good, but so what if Messi hasn't won the world cup (even though I do think it's important)?

There are plenty of things the others have done that Messi has. So it's kind of evens things out.

Plus you just have to look at his immense ability.

posted on 21/11/13

Darren

Do you not think the fact that Messi has only ever done it in front of the greatest midfield ever goes against his claim to be the best of all time? I've seen him have plenty of average games for Argentina when he doesn't have Xavi and Iniesta there.

posted on 21/11/13

IMO Messi is great but is made much greater by having Iniesta and Xavi behind him. There is no shortage of talent in the Argentinian side but unfortunately no one as good as Xavi or Iniesta to bring the best out of Messi.
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Can we disregard what Pele did then for starring in great teams?

Argentina and Napoli might not have been up to the standards of the Barca team but they were by no means rubbish teams with rubbish players.

It's probably easier to win the world cup with Maradona's Argentina team than Messi's. Doesn't matter how many class strikers they have their defence is gash whereas that wasn't true of Maradona.

posted on 21/11/13

Darren

The Argentinian side of 1986 were pretty average at the back too. And were awful in 1990 but Maradona was a massive part of getting them to the final beating a very good Brazil side and an even better Italian side.

I take your point about Pele but he did it at club and international level across 20 years of football.

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