comment by Marcelino- Vincent Tan FC. (U6171)
posted 32 seconds ago
But that is surely the most unstable thing to do...
....................................................
We get buttons from the game here mate, we need CL football to stay afloat and to move players on..we will keep unearthing gems along the way.
Bubble, are you reading what I'm saying? Or even what you are saying?
You get stability by committing to one or the other. We have not commited to either, therefore will never have stability!
If we can't afford to keep players then we can't have experience, so we have to commit to continually producing our own young talent. That's how you get stability when selling your best players, not by letting them rot in the reserves for a few years then letting them go.
comment by Marcelino- Vincent Tan FC. (U6171)
posted 58 seconds ago
Tend to agree, but what we're arguing is that instead of replacing them with dross we replace from within and save ourselves the transfer fee.
....................................................................
It is very difficult for a young player to make the breakthrough at Celtic, the fans demand top players.
Kayal <Worst ever CL campaign.>
That's a 'Hauf Glass Empty' view.
A Club of our resources - on paper - should never even qualify.
There were plenty of seasons we didn't.
Bubble as I said earlier we probably have a few gems in the under 17s, 18s and 21s but if we don't play them we will never know! If. If now isn't the right time to play them and find out then when is?
comment by Kayal's constant injuries (U13244)
posted 2 seconds ago
Bubble, are you reading what I'm saying? Or even what you are saying?
You get stability by committing to one or the other. We have not commited to either, therefore will never have stability!
If we can't afford to keep players then we can't have experience, so we have to commit to continually producing our own young talent. That's how you get stability when selling your best players, not by letting them rot in the reserves for a few years then letting them go.
............................................................
I think your getting cuffuddled kayal..we are a selling club, unless we get out of the Scottish League we will remain so.. I dont know what talent Celtic can bring thru although Kalvin Millar is getting great reviews.
comment by VirginiaBhoy (U13725)
posted 1 minute ago
Bubble as I said earlier we probably have a few gems in the under 17s, 18s and 21s but if we don't play them we will never know! If. If now isn't the right time to play them and find out then when is?
.............................................................
VB, im sure if we had any outstanding talent then we would be seeing him around the squad..the one that got away is now at Chelsea.
Bubble
You make no sense. You say fans demand top players and we need experience, but we can't afford it? How do we do it then?
The only way is to commit to continually producing our own, which is what we're saying.
Bubble
You make no sense. You say fans demand top players and we need experience, but we can't afford it? How do we do it then?
...............................................
That's right Kayal, fans DO demand top players, dont you??
Im sure you would think twice about going if Celtic were to announce they were going to play reserve players at the next home game.
The problem with playing kids is that they are very inconsistent. The fans moaning the now would also start moaning about getting beat and ask for Lennon to be sacked. You just can't win with some people.
But we cannot play the these bench players if they are not performing on the training ground..it all begins there Kayal, surely you know that.
I'm shocked at our fans' sense of perception when it comes to Europe. We are not that poor in relation to some other fourth seeds who did better than us this year.
I'm not saying 4th is a disgrace, it was the manner of it. Three goals in six games- a penalty, a deflection and a consolation at 6-0 down.
My argument has stayed consistant throughout the entire thread, and in fact the last few years on this forum. It's you that keeps chopping and changing.
If we are a selling club then why are we not continually producing players? Because the people in charge only care about the sale and not the team, which is why we have to continually producing our own quality young players to step into the place of the players we've sold. My whole point is saying that we don't have the structure or the personnel in place commited to doing that.
Keep up
I seriously doubt Lawwell will release some serious money until Rangers are back - Europe is just a bonus to him, sizeable though it is. Just my opinion.
If we are a selling club then why are we not continually producing players? Because the people in charge only care about the sale and not the team, which is why we have to continually producing our own quality young players to step into the place of the players we've sold.
.......................................
We're NOT producing young talent, we have to buy young talent ie: Wanyama..if we could produce then we would not be having this argument..it's clear as crystal that we dont have the talent at the mo kayal...
keep up
Why is it clear if they're never given the chance?
The lad Callum McGregor is playing brilliantly at Notts County, Watt came into the team and managed to score against Barcelona (and I keep telling everyone Stokes would not have scored that goal). How can we write them off if we never play them?
Marcus Fraser came on against Rennes and looked a good defender, at the time I was shouting for him to get more opportunities because our defence was rank. Nothing happened.
What happened to Twardzik, played very well when we won the league at Kille, his part in Ledley's goal was excellent.
Our youths didn't do too badly against a title-chasing Liverpool team in a friendly, we just never give them a chance.
Honestly, how many youth players have made 50+ appearances for us in the last decade?
They young players don't perform because The CLUB are failing them, not he other way round. Who was the last youngster we produced who lived up to their potential? Probably Dalglish, ffs! It's not the players that are the problem.
The problem is we don't have the personnel capable of getting young players playing to their potential. If we did we wouldnt need to worry about selling players because we would have some to come into their place.
The mentality of "not paying to watch reserves" is what's holding the club back and it's fans like you and Timmy that are holding onto that mentality because you'd rather watch turgid boring pash and scrape a game 1-0 to win short term rather than advance as a club! Every great player starts as a reserve
What gets on my pips the most is that we just DON'T play our own youngsters. We stick with the garbage that is Pukki rather than give Atajic a run in the team to see what he can do. Not sure if McGeouch is injured or not at the moment. It doesn't matter whether he is or he isn't. He wouldn't get a look in when we would rather play mince like Biton.
OK, we could go unbeaten all season in the SPL. So feckin what. Whooppee feckin doo.
What, are we afraid to lose a game or two?
OK, the world has changed a bit since 1967, but 8 (9 if you count Bertie) of the Lisbon Lions were brought on by Celtic. Only 3 had been bought. There's a message in there.
And what would we do today with the Quality Street Kids? Aye, that's right. We would keep then in the under 20s until they were 20 and then get rid.
No one is saying to play a team of kids all at once but please tell me why Balde doesn't get a run of games? Why doesn't Atajic come on with a half hour to go instead of 5 minutes? Why can't Biton play from the start? I don't get it.
We're NOT producing young talent, we have to buy young talent ie: Wanyama..if we could produce then we would not be having this argument..it's clear as crystal that we dont have the talent at the mo kayal...
------------------------
Exactly
We are not producing young players because we are caught in the midway point of trying to play an experienced team but sell players. We are not committed to continually producing our own young players, who can step up to here plate when other leave.
That's the only way that a selling club can advance, by having a philosophy in place that you stick to. In Lennon and his coacing staff we clearly don't have the personnel to implinent a philosophy and produce young players. As you keep saying, it starts on the training pitch. We don't have a manager good enough on the training pitch with any decernable plan for youth development. Forrest, Watt and McGeough have all gone backwards under Lennon. We are failing them, not them failing us.
That's what we've been saying for about an hour now.
Do people actually think that in 40 years we've only had a handful of talented players in our youth system?
Even the ones like McStay and McGeady that were the big successes of our system didn't live up to their fullest potential.
We are failing our young players year after year and blame them
VB
Basically agree with you - apart from Biton
It needs 10 starts to see whether a player is any good or not. I'd say we need to always be doing that with two players at a time. The current options might be.
ATAJIC - Right son, show us your moves. Also, you can show them to the Bosnia coach so that he picks you for the World Cup. Do that, and next season you'll be back as a better, more mature player.
WATT - OK son, it didn't work out in Belgium, so you're back here. You've got the potential to be a class striker - but you need to get your head straight. Here's 10 games, show us the class striker we know you can be. Otherwise, sling your hook.
McGEOUCH - Right Dylan, in 3 years time you could easily be the guy we build the rest of the team around. Here's 10 games, go and prove it.
McGREGOR - Calum, my boy, you've had a good time down south at Notts County, but that's the English Third Division. Now show us your moves at this level. Do that, and the longer term future centre mid partnership could easily be you and Dylan.
Forrest, Watt and McGeough have all gone backwards under Lennon. We are failing them, not them failing us.
Forrest is always injured hardly the clubs fault
Watt's got an attitude problem,again that is up to the player and not the clubs fault.
McGeough i will agree on,but when he has been given the chance he has hardly caught the eye,but he is still young and hasn't been given a real chance which is a shame as he does have talent.
I would love us to give more youth players a chance.As the biggest and best team in the land we should be producing and developing young players capable of playing in the first team.If Dundee United can produce young quality players then we should be able to as well.Something needs to change with the coaching and the youth development because we simply dont create/or give enough young players a chance.
Theresgonnabeashow agree with everything you say but why no Biton?
Sign in if you want to comment
Sorry, I'm officially done.
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posted on 1/1/14
comment by Marcelino- Vincent Tan FC. (U6171)
posted 32 seconds ago
But that is surely the most unstable thing to do...
....................................................
We get buttons from the game here mate, we need CL football to stay afloat and to move players on..we will keep unearthing gems along the way.
posted on 1/1/14
Bubble, are you reading what I'm saying? Or even what you are saying?
You get stability by committing to one or the other. We have not commited to either, therefore will never have stability!
If we can't afford to keep players then we can't have experience, so we have to commit to continually producing our own young talent. That's how you get stability when selling your best players, not by letting them rot in the reserves for a few years then letting them go.
posted on 1/1/14
comment by Marcelino- Vincent Tan FC. (U6171)
posted 58 seconds ago
Tend to agree, but what we're arguing is that instead of replacing them with dross we replace from within and save ourselves the transfer fee.
....................................................................
It is very difficult for a young player to make the breakthrough at Celtic, the fans demand top players.
posted on 1/1/14
Kayal <Worst ever CL campaign.>
That's a 'Hauf Glass Empty' view.
A Club of our resources - on paper - should never even qualify.
There were plenty of seasons we didn't.
posted on 1/1/14
Bubble as I said earlier we probably have a few gems in the under 17s, 18s and 21s but if we don't play them we will never know! If. If now isn't the right time to play them and find out then when is?
posted on 1/1/14
comment by Kayal's constant injuries (U13244)
posted 2 seconds ago
Bubble, are you reading what I'm saying? Or even what you are saying?
You get stability by committing to one or the other. We have not commited to either, therefore will never have stability!
If we can't afford to keep players then we can't have experience, so we have to commit to continually producing our own young talent. That's how you get stability when selling your best players, not by letting them rot in the reserves for a few years then letting them go.
............................................................
I think your getting cuffuddled kayal..we are a selling club, unless we get out of the Scottish League we will remain so.. I dont know what talent Celtic can bring thru although Kalvin Millar is getting great reviews.
posted on 1/1/14
comment by VirginiaBhoy (U13725)
posted 1 minute ago
Bubble as I said earlier we probably have a few gems in the under 17s, 18s and 21s but if we don't play them we will never know! If. If now isn't the right time to play them and find out then when is?
.............................................................
VB, im sure if we had any outstanding talent then we would be seeing him around the squad..the one that got away is now at Chelsea.
posted on 1/1/14
Bubble
You make no sense. You say fans demand top players and we need experience, but we can't afford it? How do we do it then?
The only way is to commit to continually producing our own, which is what we're saying.
posted on 1/1/14
Bubble
You make no sense. You say fans demand top players and we need experience, but we can't afford it? How do we do it then?
...............................................
That's right Kayal, fans DO demand top players, dont you??
Im sure you would think twice about going if Celtic were to announce they were going to play reserve players at the next home game.
posted on 1/1/14
The problem with playing kids is that they are very inconsistent. The fans moaning the now would also start moaning about getting beat and ask for Lennon to be sacked. You just can't win with some people.
posted on 1/1/14
But we cannot play the these bench players if they are not performing on the training ground..it all begins there Kayal, surely you know that.
posted on 1/1/14
I'm shocked at our fans' sense of perception when it comes to Europe. We are not that poor in relation to some other fourth seeds who did better than us this year.
I'm not saying 4th is a disgrace, it was the manner of it. Three goals in six games- a penalty, a deflection and a consolation at 6-0 down.
posted on 1/1/14
My argument has stayed consistant throughout the entire thread, and in fact the last few years on this forum. It's you that keeps chopping and changing.
If we are a selling club then why are we not continually producing players? Because the people in charge only care about the sale and not the team, which is why we have to continually producing our own quality young players to step into the place of the players we've sold. My whole point is saying that we don't have the structure or the personnel in place commited to doing that.
Keep up
posted on 1/1/14
I seriously doubt Lawwell will release some serious money until Rangers are back - Europe is just a bonus to him, sizeable though it is. Just my opinion.
posted on 1/1/14
If we are a selling club then why are we not continually producing players? Because the people in charge only care about the sale and not the team, which is why we have to continually producing our own quality young players to step into the place of the players we've sold.
.......................................
We're NOT producing young talent, we have to buy young talent ie: Wanyama..if we could produce then we would not be having this argument..it's clear as crystal that we dont have the talent at the mo kayal...
keep up
posted on 1/1/14
Why is it clear if they're never given the chance?
The lad Callum McGregor is playing brilliantly at Notts County, Watt came into the team and managed to score against Barcelona (and I keep telling everyone Stokes would not have scored that goal). How can we write them off if we never play them?
Marcus Fraser came on against Rennes and looked a good defender, at the time I was shouting for him to get more opportunities because our defence was rank. Nothing happened.
What happened to Twardzik, played very well when we won the league at Kille, his part in Ledley's goal was excellent.
Our youths didn't do too badly against a title-chasing Liverpool team in a friendly, we just never give them a chance.
Honestly, how many youth players have made 50+ appearances for us in the last decade?
posted on 1/1/14
They young players don't perform because The CLUB are failing them, not he other way round. Who was the last youngster we produced who lived up to their potential? Probably Dalglish, ffs! It's not the players that are the problem.
The problem is we don't have the personnel capable of getting young players playing to their potential. If we did we wouldnt need to worry about selling players because we would have some to come into their place.
The mentality of "not paying to watch reserves" is what's holding the club back and it's fans like you and Timmy that are holding onto that mentality because you'd rather watch turgid boring pash and scrape a game 1-0 to win short term rather than advance as a club! Every great player starts as a reserve
posted on 1/1/14
What gets on my pips the most is that we just DON'T play our own youngsters. We stick with the garbage that is Pukki rather than give Atajic a run in the team to see what he can do. Not sure if McGeouch is injured or not at the moment. It doesn't matter whether he is or he isn't. He wouldn't get a look in when we would rather play mince like Biton.
OK, we could go unbeaten all season in the SPL. So feckin what. Whooppee feckin doo.
What, are we afraid to lose a game or two?
OK, the world has changed a bit since 1967, but 8 (9 if you count Bertie) of the Lisbon Lions were brought on by Celtic. Only 3 had been bought. There's a message in there.
And what would we do today with the Quality Street Kids? Aye, that's right. We would keep then in the under 20s until they were 20 and then get rid.
posted on 1/1/14
No one is saying to play a team of kids all at once but please tell me why Balde doesn't get a run of games? Why doesn't Atajic come on with a half hour to go instead of 5 minutes? Why can't Biton play from the start? I don't get it.
posted on 1/1/14
Marcelino
posted on 1/1/14
We're NOT producing young talent, we have to buy young talent ie: Wanyama..if we could produce then we would not be having this argument..it's clear as crystal that we dont have the talent at the mo kayal...
------------------------
Exactly
We are not producing young players because we are caught in the midway point of trying to play an experienced team but sell players. We are not committed to continually producing our own young players, who can step up to here plate when other leave.
That's the only way that a selling club can advance, by having a philosophy in place that you stick to. In Lennon and his coacing staff we clearly don't have the personnel to implinent a philosophy and produce young players. As you keep saying, it starts on the training pitch. We don't have a manager good enough on the training pitch with any decernable plan for youth development. Forrest, Watt and McGeough have all gone backwards under Lennon. We are failing them, not them failing us.
That's what we've been saying for about an hour now.
posted on 1/1/14
Do people actually think that in 40 years we've only had a handful of talented players in our youth system?
Even the ones like McStay and McGeady that were the big successes of our system didn't live up to their fullest potential.
We are failing our young players year after year and blame them
posted on 1/1/14
VB
Basically agree with you - apart from Biton
It needs 10 starts to see whether a player is any good or not. I'd say we need to always be doing that with two players at a time. The current options might be.
ATAJIC - Right son, show us your moves. Also, you can show them to the Bosnia coach so that he picks you for the World Cup. Do that, and next season you'll be back as a better, more mature player.
WATT - OK son, it didn't work out in Belgium, so you're back here. You've got the potential to be a class striker - but you need to get your head straight. Here's 10 games, show us the class striker we know you can be. Otherwise, sling your hook.
McGEOUCH - Right Dylan, in 3 years time you could easily be the guy we build the rest of the team around. Here's 10 games, go and prove it.
McGREGOR - Calum, my boy, you've had a good time down south at Notts County, but that's the English Third Division. Now show us your moves at this level. Do that, and the longer term future centre mid partnership could easily be you and Dylan.
posted on 1/1/14
Forrest, Watt and McGeough have all gone backwards under Lennon. We are failing them, not them failing us.
Forrest is always injured hardly the clubs fault
Watt's got an attitude problem,again that is up to the player and not the clubs fault.
McGeough i will agree on,but when he has been given the chance he has hardly caught the eye,but he is still young and hasn't been given a real chance which is a shame as he does have talent.
I would love us to give more youth players a chance.As the biggest and best team in the land we should be producing and developing young players capable of playing in the first team.If Dundee United can produce young quality players then we should be able to as well.Something needs to change with the coaching and the youth development because we simply dont create/or give enough young players a chance.
posted on 1/1/14
Theresgonnabeashow agree with everything you say but why no Biton?
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