I thought only city's mercenaries would ever cause dressing room issues let alone question the manager?
Keeping it very short- get Jones fit and back in the team and all the rest will fall into place.
Your card's marked as a manager when players start leaking things to the press
Loose lips sink ships, and all that...
If he keeps losing matches, it's only going to be a matter of time.
I'm not confident against Swansea (again) this weekend. Any team that is decent on the ball, presses us high up the pitch and actually has a go at us, has a real chance of getting all 3 points.
If Rooney and RVP miss out again, I can see yet more trouble ahead this weekend.
Fergies gripes regarding refs were always impeccably timed and just cutting enough to gain a swing in favour from them.
To be fair he was a genius at manipulating refs and the media whereas Moyes just seems desperate for anything to change his fortunes.
What Moyes would do for one of Fergies dubious pens now eh? Would be like a star signing....
While the manager is resppnsible for tactics and team selection. Things which to be fair have not been perfect this season. The players also have to take some responsibility for the poor passing, lack of urgency and individual defensive mistakes. Of course it has to improve, and Moyes is ultimately responsible, but everyone has to pull together on this within the club. Like it or now Moyes seems here to stay for now so selling some of the senior players and getting his own in may be the best way to turn it around. Getting the right players though will be key and they als HAVE to have a hunger and desire to play for United.
The players also have to take some responsibility for the poor passing, lack
of urgency and individual defensive mistakes.
************
These are all signs of a poorly managed team. Just because you payt players large amounts does not mean they have that as their responsibility. It is sad but true. Look at any poorly managed team and all you described is a common trait. I would liker to believe that's the reason rather than the players who have pulled of nothing less than 2nd for 3 years
The Guardian can reveal that some within the dressing room are unsure of Moyes's ability to reverse a sequence that includes a league defeat by Tottenham Hotspur, being knocked out of the FA Cup by Swansea City, and Tuesday's 2-1 loss at Sunderland in the League Cup semi-final, first leg.
-------------------
if this is true i hope to god its not coming coming from the players since they are the ones who are horribley underperforming and as usual the manager gets all the blame while the players hide behind their fat contracts knowing usually they are never held to account
What a great start to the new year eh?
Of course players are to blame too. But the buck always stops with the manager guys. Not just at this club. It happens at City, Madrid, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. That's how it is in football.
Did the City players get the blame for their total and utter capitulation last spring? No.
Who did? Mancini. And he got the boot.
It's a cut throat industry, a bit like sales really. Get results or you are out on your backside.
And I have little sympathy for Moyes. He's earning £6m a year. If he gets sacked he continues to earn that salary until he takes on another job. He can't lose.
What a great start to the new year eh?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At least we're getting some consistency now.
We've had this all at Chelsea
Bad results
Followed by player unrest reports
Leaks into the media
Usually for us it leads to one thing. Yes I know we're Chelsea. That horrible club that sacks manager but the same thing is happening to you now.
Players will only perform badly if they're not pulling their weight for the manager.
Dont think it will lead to a sacking for Moyes though as i think Fergie will be doing his best to try and keep him on.
Manchester United players raise concerns over David Moyes credentials
Really? It looks like they would die fighting for him
That's the biggest problem right now, the players clearly aren't playing for him.
I have to be honest, I do find it off when people say it's all down to the players. Surely the manager is accountable for that then - motivation of players is one of the three key facets of football management and it is a very different type of management at the top clubs than it is slightly lower down. Fergusons managent style worked with these players due to his achievements in the game, Moyes needs to make sure he isn't replicating that (or keeping his the same from Everton either). He may well be doing that, but the evidence so far doesn't suggest that really.
Maybe Moyes' s training methods aren't anywhere near the level of what the players are used to - in terms of quality...not forgetting his inability to motivate them.
IF this is all true (and I'm dubious of anything I read in a newspaper) then it suggests that Moyes has lost the dressing room. When that happens something has to give and that something is usually the manager. Worrying times for the club.
Im sick of people moaning about Moyes changing the backroom staff. He replaced the goalkeeping coach, big wow, its only a goalkeeping coach and De Gea is doing very well anyway. He replaced phelan with his own assistant, which every manager in world football does and rene wanted to leave, so Moyes didn't really change a lot.
If this stuff is true which I doubt then I am ashamed of the players. If they are upset Moyes is looking for a LB because Evra is a big personality, then that's stupid as Evra is playing rubbish, which is why Moyes is looking. Evra cant defend to save his life, maybe if he played better Moyes wouldn't have to look.
The players need to behind Moyes, I hope this isn't true as when the Chelsea players did this, I felt angered and embarrassed for the fans, so if our players are doing the same, then im ashamed. They should look in their fancy, diamond encrusted mirrors and think about their performances rather than looking for a scapegoat.
"Im sick of people moaning about Moyes changing the backroom staff. He replaced the goalkeeping coach, big wow, its only a goalkeeping coach and De Gea is doing very well anyway. He replaced phelan with his own assistant, which every manager in world football does and rene wanted to leave, so Moyes didn't really change a lot. "
Cantona,
I thought Meulensteen only left because he was asked to change role? I agree with the sentiment that I would have done the same though. From a player perspective, what I would say is that it isn't human nature in any walk of life to give unequivocal support to someone regardless, there is always an impact.
Regarding Evra, I keep wrong people say he is a mistake waiting to happen. The goals I've seen you concede this year have mainly down the middle, not the opposition right flank. Is this something that has historically been an issue instead?
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
"Im sick of people moaning about Moyes changing the backroom staff. He replaced the goalkeeping coach, big wow, its only a goalkeeping coach and De Gea is doing very well anyway. He replaced phelan with his own assistant, which every manager in world football does and rene wanted to leave, so Moyes didn't really change a lot. "
Cantona,
I thought Meulensteen only left because he was asked to change role? I agree with the sentiment that I would have done the same though. From a player perspective, what I would say is that it isn't human nature in any walk of life to give unequivocal support to someone regardless, there is always an impact.
Regarding Evra, I keep wrong people say he is a mistake waiting to happen. The goals I've seen you concede this year have mainly down the middle, not the opposition right flank. Is this something that has historically been an issue instead?
----------------------------------------
The problem with Evra is he goes so far forward and doing track back. He also always gets dragged into the centre and leaves to much space out wide. I find myself in a lot of our games asking where the bleddy hell is Evra. Against sunderland when they were attacking, I couldn't see Evra at all, then I saw he was at the half way line rather than defending. He also get beat quite easily. Don't get me wrong I love Evra, he is one of my favourite players ever, I love his passion, however everyone and everything has its time and Moyes is right to look for a new LB (Not baines though)
Gotcha, fair enough. I agree not Baines either!
This problem seems to arise when you have senior players, close to the end of their career who are very vocal... The heartbeat of the dressing room.
We saw it at Chelsea with Terry and Lamps... We are probably seeing it here too.. With Rio and Evra.
Not sure how it will pan out, but if they get shot of Moyes, the next guy will likely ship them on too.
If... And it is a nice if.. These rumours are true... Just sack off the players
"Not sure how it will pan out, but if they get shot of Moyes, the next guy will likely ship them on too."
That is usually what happens Ji. Chelsea is a bit different with Mourinho going back there, but that is where AVB was doomed from the start - he was only going to work if he was allowed to change the players. Ultimately with football nowadays, the players as assets are far more valuable as assets than the managers, unless in extreme circumstances. If its one manager vs half a dozen players, there tends to be only one winner.
Moyes has the advantage, as you say, that the players are coming to the end of their careers (if these reports of unrest are true) and in all honesty need to be replaced anyway.
didn't mean to put as assets twice there!
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 11 minutes ago
This problem seems to arise when you have senior players, close to the end of their career who are very vocal... The heartbeat of the dressing room.
We saw it at Chelsea with Terry and Lamps... We are probably seeing it here too.. With Rio and Evra.
Not sure how it will pan out, but if they get shot of Moyes, the next guy will likely ship them on too.
If... And it is a nice if.. These rumours are true... Just sack off the players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Highly doubt it from Evra going by his interview on skysports the other day, even Moyes has come out to compliment him for reminding all the players the levels expected at Manchester united.
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Are the knives out?
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6
posted on 9/1/14
I thought only city's mercenaries would ever cause dressing room issues let alone question the manager?
posted on 9/1/14
Keeping it very short- get Jones fit and back in the team and all the rest will fall into place.
posted on 9/1/14
Your card's marked as a manager when players start leaking things to the press
Loose lips sink ships, and all that...
posted on 9/1/14
If he keeps losing matches, it's only going to be a matter of time.
I'm not confident against Swansea (again) this weekend. Any team that is decent on the ball, presses us high up the pitch and actually has a go at us, has a real chance of getting all 3 points.
If Rooney and RVP miss out again, I can see yet more trouble ahead this weekend.
posted on 9/1/14
Fergies gripes regarding refs were always impeccably timed and just cutting enough to gain a swing in favour from them.
To be fair he was a genius at manipulating refs and the media whereas Moyes just seems desperate for anything to change his fortunes.
What Moyes would do for one of Fergies dubious pens now eh? Would be like a star signing....
posted on 9/1/14
While the manager is resppnsible for tactics and team selection. Things which to be fair have not been perfect this season. The players also have to take some responsibility for the poor passing, lack of urgency and individual defensive mistakes. Of course it has to improve, and Moyes is ultimately responsible, but everyone has to pull together on this within the club. Like it or now Moyes seems here to stay for now so selling some of the senior players and getting his own in may be the best way to turn it around. Getting the right players though will be key and they als HAVE to have a hunger and desire to play for United.
posted on 9/1/14
The players also have to take some responsibility for the poor passing, lack
of urgency and individual defensive mistakes.
************
These are all signs of a poorly managed team. Just because you payt players large amounts does not mean they have that as their responsibility. It is sad but true. Look at any poorly managed team and all you described is a common trait. I would liker to believe that's the reason rather than the players who have pulled of nothing less than 2nd for 3 years
posted on 9/1/14
The Guardian can reveal that some within the dressing room are unsure of Moyes's ability to reverse a sequence that includes a league defeat by Tottenham Hotspur, being knocked out of the FA Cup by Swansea City, and Tuesday's 2-1 loss at Sunderland in the League Cup semi-final, first leg.
-------------------
if this is true i hope to god its not coming coming from the players since they are the ones who are horribley underperforming and as usual the manager gets all the blame while the players hide behind their fat contracts knowing usually they are never held to account
posted on 9/1/14
What a great start to the new year eh?
posted on 9/1/14
Of course players are to blame too. But the buck always stops with the manager guys. Not just at this club. It happens at City, Madrid, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. That's how it is in football.
Did the City players get the blame for their total and utter capitulation last spring? No.
Who did? Mancini. And he got the boot.
It's a cut throat industry, a bit like sales really. Get results or you are out on your backside.
And I have little sympathy for Moyes. He's earning £6m a year. If he gets sacked he continues to earn that salary until he takes on another job. He can't lose.
posted on 9/1/14
What a great start to the new year eh?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At least we're getting some consistency now.
posted on 9/1/14
We've had this all at Chelsea
Bad results
Followed by player unrest reports
Leaks into the media
Usually for us it leads to one thing. Yes I know we're Chelsea. That horrible club that sacks manager but the same thing is happening to you now.
Players will only perform badly if they're not pulling their weight for the manager.
Dont think it will lead to a sacking for Moyes though as i think Fergie will be doing his best to try and keep him on.
posted on 9/1/14
Manchester United players raise concerns over David Moyes credentials
Really? It looks like they would die fighting for him
That's the biggest problem right now, the players clearly aren't playing for him.
posted on 9/1/14
I have to be honest, I do find it off when people say it's all down to the players. Surely the manager is accountable for that then - motivation of players is one of the three key facets of football management and it is a very different type of management at the top clubs than it is slightly lower down. Fergusons managent style worked with these players due to his achievements in the game, Moyes needs to make sure he isn't replicating that (or keeping his the same from Everton either). He may well be doing that, but the evidence so far doesn't suggest that really.
posted on 9/1/14
Odd not off
posted on 9/1/14
Maybe Moyes' s training methods aren't anywhere near the level of what the players are used to - in terms of quality...not forgetting his inability to motivate them.
posted on 9/1/14
IF this is all true (and I'm dubious of anything I read in a newspaper) then it suggests that Moyes has lost the dressing room. When that happens something has to give and that something is usually the manager. Worrying times for the club.
posted on 9/1/14
Im sick of people moaning about Moyes changing the backroom staff. He replaced the goalkeeping coach, big wow, its only a goalkeeping coach and De Gea is doing very well anyway. He replaced phelan with his own assistant, which every manager in world football does and rene wanted to leave, so Moyes didn't really change a lot.
If this stuff is true which I doubt then I am ashamed of the players. If they are upset Moyes is looking for a LB because Evra is a big personality, then that's stupid as Evra is playing rubbish, which is why Moyes is looking. Evra cant defend to save his life, maybe if he played better Moyes wouldn't have to look.
The players need to behind Moyes, I hope this isn't true as when the Chelsea players did this, I felt angered and embarrassed for the fans, so if our players are doing the same, then im ashamed. They should look in their fancy, diamond encrusted mirrors and think about their performances rather than looking for a scapegoat.
posted on 9/1/14
"Im sick of people moaning about Moyes changing the backroom staff. He replaced the goalkeeping coach, big wow, its only a goalkeeping coach and De Gea is doing very well anyway. He replaced phelan with his own assistant, which every manager in world football does and rene wanted to leave, so Moyes didn't really change a lot. "
Cantona,
I thought Meulensteen only left because he was asked to change role? I agree with the sentiment that I would have done the same though. From a player perspective, what I would say is that it isn't human nature in any walk of life to give unequivocal support to someone regardless, there is always an impact.
Regarding Evra, I keep wrong people say he is a mistake waiting to happen. The goals I've seen you concede this year have mainly down the middle, not the opposition right flank. Is this something that has historically been an issue instead?
posted on 9/1/14
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
"Im sick of people moaning about Moyes changing the backroom staff. He replaced the goalkeeping coach, big wow, its only a goalkeeping coach and De Gea is doing very well anyway. He replaced phelan with his own assistant, which every manager in world football does and rene wanted to leave, so Moyes didn't really change a lot. "
Cantona,
I thought Meulensteen only left because he was asked to change role? I agree with the sentiment that I would have done the same though. From a player perspective, what I would say is that it isn't human nature in any walk of life to give unequivocal support to someone regardless, there is always an impact.
Regarding Evra, I keep wrong people say he is a mistake waiting to happen. The goals I've seen you concede this year have mainly down the middle, not the opposition right flank. Is this something that has historically been an issue instead?
----------------------------------------
The problem with Evra is he goes so far forward and doing track back. He also always gets dragged into the centre and leaves to much space out wide. I find myself in a lot of our games asking where the bleddy hell is Evra. Against sunderland when they were attacking, I couldn't see Evra at all, then I saw he was at the half way line rather than defending. He also get beat quite easily. Don't get me wrong I love Evra, he is one of my favourite players ever, I love his passion, however everyone and everything has its time and Moyes is right to look for a new LB (Not baines though)
posted on 9/1/14
Gotcha, fair enough. I agree not Baines either!
posted on 9/1/14
This problem seems to arise when you have senior players, close to the end of their career who are very vocal... The heartbeat of the dressing room.
We saw it at Chelsea with Terry and Lamps... We are probably seeing it here too.. With Rio and Evra.
Not sure how it will pan out, but if they get shot of Moyes, the next guy will likely ship them on too.
If... And it is a nice if.. These rumours are true... Just sack off the players
posted on 9/1/14
"Not sure how it will pan out, but if they get shot of Moyes, the next guy will likely ship them on too."
That is usually what happens Ji. Chelsea is a bit different with Mourinho going back there, but that is where AVB was doomed from the start - he was only going to work if he was allowed to change the players. Ultimately with football nowadays, the players as assets are far more valuable as assets than the managers, unless in extreme circumstances. If its one manager vs half a dozen players, there tends to be only one winner.
Moyes has the advantage, as you say, that the players are coming to the end of their careers (if these reports of unrest are true) and in all honesty need to be replaced anyway.
posted on 9/1/14
didn't mean to put as assets twice there!
posted on 9/1/14
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 11 minutes ago
This problem seems to arise when you have senior players, close to the end of their career who are very vocal... The heartbeat of the dressing room.
We saw it at Chelsea with Terry and Lamps... We are probably seeing it here too.. With Rio and Evra.
Not sure how it will pan out, but if they get shot of Moyes, the next guy will likely ship them on too.
If... And it is a nice if.. These rumours are true... Just sack off the players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Highly doubt it from Evra going by his interview on skysports the other day, even Moyes has come out to compliment him for reminding all the players the levels expected at Manchester united.
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