I think it was a great move by Moyes to play Giggs and Rio, effectively telling them to shut up and prove it on the pitch.

Regarding the "dropping off and defending deep" Alan Smith said that Moyes was urging the back 4 forward...

There were shades of the old United but as the game wore on we began to reexperience the Moyes factor.
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I knew some mug would conveniently forget that Moyes was screaming at the back 4 to push out and blame him for us going into our shell

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Valencia's buldging left eye (U2958)
posted 8 seconds ago
There were shades of the old United but as the game wore on we began to reexperience the Moyes factor.
-----------------
I knew some mug would conveniently forget that Moyes was screaming at the back 4 to push out and blame him for us going into our shell
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Ji It's selective listening from the Moyes bashers

Louis Saha said Moyes was a better tactician than SaF.

Words are just words.

I'm certain in front of a rabid United crowd at OT on a European night, any European team won't fancy it.

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Valencia's buldging left eye (U2958)
posted 2 minutes ago
There were shades of the old United but as the game wore on we began to reexperience the Moyes factor.
-----------------
I knew some mug would conveniently forget that Moyes was screaming at the back 4 to push out and blame him for us going into our shell

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The same that ignored the article last night. Really is sad!

i thought it was pretty comfortable

cant remember De Gea making a save in the 2nd half other than the shot straight at him

if United had to push on after the 3rd goal n get another they woudlve, they just had to be cautious they didnt concede

to be honest, we have been doing this for almost 3 years.
going a goal up, defending... conceding, start playing again.
not like its happened ever since moyes has been here.
its a mentality SAF set in the players that is obviously still lingering around from a couple years ago.
well SAF or some other bloke, phelan maybe.

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Valencia's buldging left eye (U2958)
posted 16 minutes ago
There were shades of the old United but as the game wore on we began to reexperience the Moyes factor.
-----------------
I knew some mug would conveniently forget that Moyes was screaming at the back 4 to push out and blame him for us going into our shell
----------------------------------------------------------------------
then this is a twofold problem.

either Moyes wasnt doing this as suggested, noone actually saw as the cameras didnt show it, or against what Robb stated in his previous article, maybe Moyes has lost the dressing room, because they certainly werent paying any attention to his instructions.

then this is a twofold problem.

either Moyes wasnt doing this as suggested, noone actually saw as the cameras didnt show it, or against what Robb stated in his previous article, maybe Moyes has lost the dressing room, because they certainly werent paying any attention to his instructions.
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Then im sorry if the latteris true then our performances this season are to be blamed mainly on the players. No excuses!

But who knows!

I did not see or hear him screaming for this to happen. I do remember however he invited a lot of pressure by not making subs when we started flagging, something even the commentators highlighted.

I like how some use 1 thing to praise Moyes and bash everyone else but disregard 8 months of incompetence.

Superb analysis! Superb!!

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 42 seconds ago
I did not see or hear him screaming for this to happen. I do remember however he invited a lot of pressure by not making subs when we started flagging, something even the commentators highlighted.

I like how some use 1 thing to praise Moyes and bash everyone else but disregard 8 months of incompetence.

Superb analysis! Superb!!

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Yet if it is to be believed that the players are playing fort hemselves rather than the manager then the defeats we've encountered are more the players fault then the manager.

There are still huge gaps in the centre of the pitch the way we play. many a time you could take a snap shot and see that. We didn't play great possession football by any means but there was one little move where we actually had a series of one touch passing and triangles to coin a phrase. A while since we have seen that. Rio played quite well I thought for someone getting a lot of flak.
Still think if Carrick is played we need two players alongside him which happened from time to time with Giggs and Rooney dropping back.
Would like to see Rooney tried as a box to box midfielder with Mata or Kagawa in the hole !

IMO

The drop off was to be expected in the second half. And that was partly due to the players and Moyes.

1. Giggs is 40. He hasn't played for months. Any one with half a brain should realise he will be done at around the hour mark. Moyes has no excuse for this, he saw it first hand two seasons ago with Scholes in the 4-4 game that ultimately cost us the title.

2. To compensate for Giggs energy levels dropping off, Rooney drops deeper to help out, thus leaving us with little out let up front.

3. Carrick, as a consequence to all this, himself drops deeper, having a knock on effect on the defence dropping deeper.

4. Point 3 is a player thing and not Moyes doing, because the same thing has been happening in the previous two seasons.

5. We got away with some poor substitutions yesterday. It likely will not happen again.

Well surmised VC

Point 3 is a player thing and not Moyes doing, because the same thing has been happening in the previous two seasons.

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surely it is a moyes thing though to a degree.

If Giggs is flagging after an hour or so, then Moyes should be seeing this and making a change.

if this happens, then points 2 and 3 dont become an issue??

comment by Dunc - friends with the Geriatrics (U11713)
posted 50 seconds ago
Point 3 is a player thing and not Moyes doing, because the same thing has been happening in the previous two seasons.

--------------

surely it is a moyes thing though to a degree.

.............

Was Moyes managing us the previous two seasons?

If Giggs is flagging after an hour or so, then Moyes should be seeing this and making a change.

.............

That was covered in point one Dunc.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
If Giggs is flagging after an hour or so, then Moyes should be seeing this and making a change.

.............

That was covered in point one Dunc.
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i know it was covered in point one, but points two and 3 are all consequential of point one.

you said it was a player thing and not a moyes thing.

surely if giggs had been taken off points 2 and 3 wouldnt have happened, failure to do that surely poibts to it being a moyes thing too.

comment by Dunc - friends with the Geriatrics (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
If Giggs is flagging after an hour or so, then Moyes should be seeing this and making a change.

.............

That was covered in point one Dunc.
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i know it was covered in point one, but points two and 3 are all consequential of point one.

you said it was a player thing and not a moyes thing.

surely if giggs had been taken off points 2 and 3 wouldnt have happened, failure to do that surely poibts to it being a moyes thing too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Difficult call. If Moyes had taken Giggs off earlier, we may have sat even deeper. As it happens, Giggs staying on left their defenders with something to think about.

you said it was a player thing and not a moyes thing.

..........

I said point 3 was a player thing. It is. We have been doing it for three seasons now. Moyes hasn't been manager for three seasons.

I put it down to not having an on field leader like Keane or Robbo.

Remember, we don't always play Giggs so that point isn't always relevent.

Difficult call. If Moyes had taken Giggs off earlier, we may have sat even deeper. As it happens, Giggs staying on left their defenders with something to think about.

.....................

Really? It looked like he faded completely out of the game to me.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 32 seconds ago
Difficult call. If Moyes had taken Giggs off earlier, we may have sat even deeper. As it happens, Giggs staying on left their defenders with something to think about.

.....................

Really? It looked like he faded completely out of the game to me.
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Can still ping a pass from anywhere though... The defenders (surely) would have had that in mind.

Can still ping a pass from anywhere though... The defenders (surely) would have had that in mind.

..............

They were chasing the game by then. I doubt that would have been much of a concern.

I always find that when you play football it is always good to play with eleven men. In reality we had dropped to ten men around the hour mark, because at 40 years old and the lack of any game time what so ever Giggs was knackered.

I said this on the match thread yesterday. Everyone could see it and it invited pressure.

We were very lucky yesterday. Taking Welbeck off as well gave them some reprieve

Taking Welbeck off as well gave them some reprieve

............

That was another one I didn't get.