Madrid seem to play on the counter against the top teams. We need to play a high energy game with good pressing upfront and midfield. Force the mistakes high up the pitch and dont pass it sideways like Wijnaldum does.

Problem is you not going up against any normal midfield. You're playing against arguably two of the best passing midfielders of their generation. They could put the ball on a needle in a haystack.

I actually think the front 3 need to do more in cutting off the passing lanes to them and also if they go long our midfield need to be able to pick up the second ball in midfield. Although that second ball win has been a major problem for us this season.

comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 54 seconds ago
Problem is you not going up against any normal midfield. You're playing against arguably two of the best passing midfielders of their generation. They could put the ball on a needle in a haystack.

I actually think the front 3 need to do more in cutting off the passing lanes to them and also if they go long our midfield need to be able to pick up the second ball in midfield. Although that second ball win has been a major problem for us this season.
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Was it you that posted the pressing analysis from the first leg? Was a good read.

Yeah from Anfield Index. They were using their pressing stats. It's a nice site

comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 6 minutes ago
Problem is you not going up against any normal midfield. You're playing against arguably two of the best passing midfielders of their generation. They could put the ball on a needle in a haystack.

I actually think the front 3 need to do more in cutting off the passing lanes to them and also if they go long our midfield need to be able to pick up the second ball in midfield. Although that second ball win has been a major problem for us this season.
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Firmino is our best front player in shutting down passing angles to the opposition midfield. This is an skill which not many players can do or understand.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

I wouldn't be against a 4231 shape. We know Madrid are going to sit deep. We know they are going to hit the space behind the fullbacks.

Would love to see how we approach this game.

I don't think there was anything wrong with how we set up, just think the execution was shiiiiiiiit.

Would not be against playing all four front men.

Wijanldum is slow with the ball I think, so much momentum is lost when he has the ball.

comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
Wijanldum is slow with the ball I think, so much momentum is lost when he has the ball.
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I think that depends. He was probably our best player in the first quarter of the season. People used to say this about Henderson too. What he does is protect the ball and does not take risks (which I suspect he's asked to do) so if the movement is sh!t in front of him he will recycle the safer option.

Fast becoming the new scapegoat.

I've been saying for a while now. If you want to see what Klopp truly expects from us, all you have to do is look at Wijnaldum. If Klopp wants us to blow the opposition away, Wijnaldum will be making runs into the final third and running beyond the front 3. If he want's to play it safe. We'll see the Wijnaldum we're used to seeing this season.

Thing is...playing it safe Wijnaldum is doing more harm than good at the moment because he is just slowing down countless moves.

Yeah that's true, I can imagine that's under instruction really to play the way he does. I do think his role goes under the radar, although I do also think he has had the capability to kill momentum of potential counter attacks. That may be down to movement in the front line, but it has made it more noticeable in my opinion.

comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 11 minutes ago
I've been saying for a while now. If you want to see what Klopp truly expects from us, all you have to do is look at Wijnaldum. If Klopp wants us to blow the opposition away, Wijnaldum will be making runs into the final third and running beyond the front 3. If he want's to play it safe. We'll see the Wijnaldum we're used to seeing this season.
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I agree.

The flip side is if it is him who gives the ball away on the half way line and the team is set to perform a certain transition it's fairly likely that one stray pass will lead to a one pass counter isolating the likes of Phillips.

comment by Robbing Cromwell - agent of the hierarchy. (U6374)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
Wijanldum is slow with the ball I think, so much momentum is lost when he has the ball.
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I think that depends. He was probably our best player in the first quarter of the season. People used to say this about Henderson too. What he does is protect the ball and does not take risks (which I suspect he's asked to do) so if the movement is sh!t in front of him he will recycle the safer option.

Fast becoming the new scapegoat.
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Wijnaldum is the same for the Netherlands. He can't pass the ball forward between the lines. They have solved this with deploying him more forward and have asked him to make runs in the box.

He doesnt pass the ball forward even when there is an easy option to play the ball between the lines.

When we signed Wijnaldum, Klopp also spoke in a friendly about how he needs to be a lion or something along those lines.

If Wijnaldum wasn't doing as he was told he'd be dropped I'd have thought.

He averages 44 games a season under Klopp.

I'd drop him just for existing at the moment.

Tbh I think Klopp has made no end of mistakes this season.

I think the way the players were trained physically for the season needs a very long look at.

I think mistakes have been made, but in all fairness, Klopp's hands have been tired a lot this season.

A common mistake I hear is when people say Fabinho should have been played in midfield more than in defence. That's easy to say now, but Fabinho is better at CB than what Rhys Williams and even Nat Phillips are imo. You'd obviously want your best possible options at CB and considering the options available in midfield, I can see why Klopp opted to use Fabinho at CB for this reason.

We can obviously all see now why that was a mistake, of course decision making is what Klopp is ultimately judged on coinciding with results, but it was overall trying to make the best of a very bad situation for much of the season.

I think Wij is an easy player to under-estimate.

He does a little bit of everything. His ball retention is really sound but you rarely see expansive passing. His energy and pressing is excellent but he's not as good defensively as Fab (or probably Henderson). His work in the attacking third (late runs into the box) gets him a few goals but he tends to lack assists.

When the positive sides to his game aren't flourishing then the lack of ability to drive a performance, to really impact a game make him a target for criticism.

His season has essentially been one of disruption. He's lost the other two senior and experienced CMs to CB and/or injury, been trying to adapt and learn to play with Thiago (also disrupted by injury) and Jones. In addition to that, his attacking combinations with Robertson and Mane have been hampered, especially in recent months, with lack of form from Mane.

Wij isn't a leader imo. Neither will he define a game or add dynamism to a game. What he will do is provide an exceptional and reliable enabler for those that can do that. He's a facilitator in Klopp's team and if that team is playing well then he's great. Too often this year we just haven't though and it appears that he's facilitating poor performances. Personally, I think that's harsh.

Yeah I've no problem with him using Fabinho at CV and had we not signed Kabak Id still be for it but I do think the training preseason needs looking at because we've suffered an uncommon amount of injuries even for this season.

I'm not sure he's been bang at it himself, a managers attitude is infectious in any walk of life, and regardless of what he was going through I think his handling of the media has been poor.

I think he has been stubborn in his systems too, and his line ups, which most elite managers are but that doesn't change the fact.

I could go on tbh.

The monotonous excuses have been poor this season. Whilst I don't doubt it's a factor, you hear it from many elite professionals that excuses are not good enough at that level and Klopp has certainly used a fair share of them this season.

I think it has been a difficult for season for the club and even from individuals points of views as well when you look at Klopp and Alisson's situations.

Whatever happens this season, good or bad, it needs to be parked and moved on from going into next season. But a strong end to the season is a must.

as frustrating as wijnaldum can be because lets be honest hes a lot more talented on the ball than he shows, its gonna be a huge blow losing him for nothing.

The guys always been fit, played so many games for us in his time here. Not set the world on fire but nobody can deny hes not been solid and ever dependable.

That said theres two great replacement options imo, Tielemans 23 y/o cost lesta a lot 40m i think, 2 years left on his contract would probably cost almost double.

Cheaper option bissouma, 24 less of a goal threat but like Wijnaldum keeps the ball very well.