comment by martial artist (U9033) always insisted on team orders and dummy subservient lacky no 2 team mates because he was terrified of competition within his team hence had all his titles manufactured for him -
---------------------
Which drivers, during his period of dominance, would have deserved a seat at Ferrari and been able to challenge him?
Martial you keep mixing Vettel and Schumacher. They are different you know
comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 1 day, 1 hour ago
I see you are equally efficient at insulting n606 members as you are over here WTCBU
Good race regardless of the little fall outs I'm sure people will have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hold my hand up and admit that I was unnecessarily harsh with him in denouncing his post.
Any reasonable minded person, such as yourself, would of course pointed him in the direction of links to the informative sites that if he bookmarked them and visited them on a regular basis, would have greatly enhanced his knowledge of F1.
I am sure that you will not feel that your nose is out of joint if I post those links on your behalf.
http://www.formula1.com/default.html
http://www.autosport.com/f1/
http://www.fia.com/sport/championships/news/formula-1-world-championship
And, of course, when all else fails, do what millions of other Vettel fans do when they want information
https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hl=en&site=webhp&source=hp&q=how+do+i+google+something&oq=how+do+i+goo&gs_l=hp.3.0.0l10.1596.4977.0.8135.13.12.0.1.1.0.211.1275.9j2j1.12.0....0...1c.1.49.hp..1.12.1133.0.O7cU-nlOR_E
comment by WTCBU (U13662)
posted 1 day ago
comment by martial artist (U9033) always insisted on team orders and dummy subservient lacky no 2 team mates because he was terrified of competition within his team hence had all his titles manufactured for him -
---------------------
Which drivers, during his period of dominance, would have deserved a seat at Ferrari and been able to challenge him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
to be honest wtcbu i had alot of respect for micheal but not for the todt / brawn / byrne / regime that manufactured his titles for him , the team orders policy / weak team mates policy he enjoyed for so long gave him a massive advantage over the other drivers in his era for nearly all of his career -
micheal was also lucky he raced in a very weak era after prost and senna left the sport , in all honesty probably mika hakk , hh frentzen , montoya , would have gave micheal all the trouble he could handle during his era had they been allowed to race micheal in the same team without team orders --
--- hold my hands up i was only rattling manx"s cage when i posted my initial reply --
But you didn't rattle my cage martial. Schumacher was the greatest and to suggest the Mclaren's and Williams were weak is most amusing.
Also suggesting his titles were manufactured is hilarious. If you want to see a manufactured world champion, it is Vettel
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 hours, 48 minutes ago
But you didn't rattle my cage martial. Schumacher was the greatest and to suggest the Mclaren's and Williams were weak is most amusing.
Also suggesting his titles were manufactured is hilarious. If you want to see a manufactured world champion, it is Vettel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was only having a bit of fun with you manx , no sinister agenda bud -
i never suggested the mclaren and williams were weak during his ferrari wdc years from 2000 onwards but overall ferrari had the strongest package during his dominant years there - 02 and 04 ferrari were light yrs above the rest -
as i said micheal had a massive advantage and i do mean massive because of the team orders luxury that he had over all his rivals in his 5 ferrari WDCs which in effect meant nobody else actually had a prayer of a chance of beating him over those 5 seasons such was the advantage of team orders when his rivals did not employ such unfair tactics -
which is the main reason the historians and polls of substance will never rate him as the best ever , because he had so many manufactured unfair advantages over his rivals at the time --
He created the advantage by making the Ferrari thhe best car on the grid. It was not when he joined. From his very first day on an F1 track everyone knew someone pecial had arrived.
Most of the people who do not like him were jealos. I can understand that but his technical acmen and ability to drive anything in any condition is unmatched.
His team mate Eddie Jordan who has dismissed. A lot of the BS said about MS and you know EI pulls no punches made it clear. How special he was to constantly put the car high up on the grid and win races even when it had no right to.
Do not believe we will ever see someone like him again who was the total package.
Ther Ferrari was only the best car in 02 and 04. Williams were better in 96 and 97 McLaren had the better car in 98,99,2000 and it was level in 2001 and 2003 Williams had the best car. Renault was the best car 05 and 06 to. FACT
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 14 hours, 10 minutes ago
He created the advantage by making the Ferrari thhe best car on the grid. It was not when he joined. From his very first day on an F1 track everyone knew someone pecial had arrived.
Most of the people who do not like him were jealos. I can understand that but his technical acmen and ability to drive anything in any condition is unmatched.
His team mate Eddie Jordan who has dismissed. A lot of the BS said about MS and you know EI pulls no punches made it clear. How special he was to constantly put the car high up on the grid and win races even when it had no right to.
Do not believe we will ever see someone like him again who was the total package.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
manx you are not saying anything of real substance mate
-- micheal was not a designer or an aerodynamist he was merely a good driver -- nothing more , how could a driver with absolutely no design experience turn any F1 car into the best car on the grid ,
in realty it was jean todt with the ferrari purse strings who bought a large chunk of the benettone design team who then in effect became the ferrari design team to design cars purely for micheal -
combine this with team orders and a host of other manufactured advantages including special bespoke bridgestone tyres especially for ferrari which in effect was especially for schumacher that no other driver in the history of the sport had ever enjoyed before or since and micheal and ferrari became unbeatable for 5 yrs -
it was only when renault with alonso in 05 and 06 copied ferrari at there own game that the micheal schumacher myth was blown into little pieces and people could see for themselves there was nothing really special about micheal
--------so much so that the ferrari bosses had no more use for schumacher and forced micheal out of ferrari after 06 --
Martial, you have not posted anything of substance, just speculation and conjecture.
The facts are there in black and white, deal with it
Interesting discussion regarding Michael Schumacher's WDC's.
From what I gather, and I do not wish to distort or misrepresent views, apparently the consensus of opinion is that Michael Schumacher's 7 WDC's are worthless.
Again, I do not wish to misrepresent anyone's genuine view or opinion but it would appear that the criteria for judging the value of a F1 driver's achievement in becoming a WDC is based on any one of the following.
1. The designer
2. The tyre
3. The team mate
4. The team orders
5. An opinion poll
So
1. The designer - MS fails because of Byrne but Vettel is OK because of Newey.
2. The tyre - 3 of MS titles were won on sole supplier tyres
3. The team mate - Name me a driver that would have been a genuine candidate for a F1 seat that could have challenged MS in the same team.
4. Team orders – well if Ferrari employed low quality team mates then team orders would not be needed. Reason 4 directly contradicts reason 3.
5. An opinion poll – So out of 32 WDC's in history we should denounce the achievements of 31 of them because only one of them could be voted top?
On the MS issue, for me, i think you are both to a degree correct.
I see nothing wrong with saying that MS was the greatest driver, there is so much compelling evidence. However i also agree that a number of his WDC's where "manufactured" in that i mean, he had some mechanical advantages over his rivals. Remember guys, it can be both, you can be the greatest driver, and have the greatest advantage.
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 3 minutes ago
On the MS issue, for me, i think you are both to a degree correct.
I see nothing wrong with saying that MS was the greatest driver, there is so much compelling evidence. However i also agree that a number of his WDC's where "manufactured" in that i mean, he had some mechanical advantages over his rivals. Remember guys, it can be both, you can be the greatest driver, and have the greatest advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no issue with Schumi having a mechanical advantage. All the cars are not the same and have some mechanical advantages or disadvantages.
Therefore, we can look at their performances when they did not have these advantages and make an objective assessment.
You can look at his very first visit to an F1 track and first time driving an F1 car and beating an established driver, you can look at how Bennetton moved heaven and earth to get him and how Jordan tried to block it, you can see what he did with Benetton and what he did with Ferrari.
You can see how he drove in a variety of conditions, you can see how he performed against his team mates and colleagues. If people were honest and not blinkered by hatred or bias, it is clear to see that he is arguably the greatest F1 driver.
His physical, technical and mental abilities in one package is nigh on impossible to find. Funny that martial talked about what happened with Alonso but ignores the manufactured advantage the Renault's had in those title winning years.
But also in defence of MA, and at risk of being accused of poking my nose by the aforementioned, I can't get out of my head the Melbourne incident with Hill, the failed yet worthlessly punished attempt to take out Villienueve, parking his car at Monaco to stop qualifying. Then there is the issue of special tyres, though how much this can be proved is in itself debatable. Add onto this the way the FIA seemed (seem) so biased towards Ferrari. You can understand why people say his titles were manufactured or won by illicit means.
Yes Schumi was a great driver, but should the need any help like this, and I could include in that statement Prost and Senna. We are ALL blinded by personal preferences. I still think Senna was the best despite the above statement.
Yes, I agree some things Schumi did were disgraceful bt he's not the first. Or the last. Ssenna did similar things, Prost had a clause in hiss contract,Alonso tried to blackmail Mclaren, had a team mate. Crash for him to win a race, a victory he still claims, incident at hngaroring with Hamilton, team order gate and rarely got punished unlike schuhmi who got pnished for all those incidents bar the hill one.
People just hold those against him because of his success. I'll never forget what Irvine said when he was interviewed and these 'whims' were brought up about preferential treatment demanded by schumi and he called it BS and he is not one to mince his words.
comment by WTCBU (U13662)
posted 1 day, 9 hours ago
Interesting discussion regarding Michael Schumacher's WDC's.
From what I gather, and I do not wish to distort or misrepresent views, apparently the consensus of opinion is that Michael Schumacher's 7 WDC's are worthless.
Again, I do not wish to misrepresent anyone's genuine view or opinion but it would appear that the criteria for judging the value of a F1 driver's achievement in becoming a WDC is based on any one of the following.
1. The designer
2. The tyre
3. The team mate
4. The team orders
5. An opinion poll
So
1. The designer - MS fails because of Byrne but Vettel is OK because of Newey.
2. The tyre - 3 of MS titles were won on sole supplier tyres
3. The team mate - Name me a driver that would have been a genuine candidate for a F1 seat that could have challenged MS in the same team.
4. Team orders – well if Ferrari employed low quality team mates then team orders would not be needed. Reason 4 directly contradicts reason 3.
5. An opinion poll – So out of 32 WDC's in history we should denounce the achievements of 31 of them because only one of them could be voted top?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
when you look at micheal and his standing in the sport and his achievements and to how he is judged in relation to his rivals you cannot overlook the many manufactured unfair advantages he had in relation to those rivals -
the ferrari regime at the time decided to pursue a different route to there direct rivals in putting all there eggs in one basket and focusing purely on one driver and putting all there resources into micheal knowing that the drivers championship would be guaranteed all the time they pursued such a route -
------- not that it is important but it was the ferrari way of doing things at the time and the manufactured advantages they gave him at the time which will prevent him from ever being thought of as the best ever --
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 20 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 3 minutes ago
On the MS issue, for me, i think you are both to a degree correct.
I see nothing wrong with saying that MS was the greatest driver, there is so much compelling evidence. However i also agree that a number of his WDC's where "manufactured" in that i mean, he had some mechanical advantages over his rivals. Remember guys, it can be both, you can be the greatest driver, and have the greatest advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no issue with Schumi having a mechanical advantage. All the cars are not the same and have some mechanical advantages or disadvantages.
Therefore, we can look at their performances when they did not have these advantages and make an objective assessment.
You can look at his very first visit to an F1 track and first time driving an F1 car and beating an established driver, you can look at how Bennetton moved heaven and earth to get him and how Jordan tried to block it, you can see what he did with Benetton and what he did with Ferrari.
You can see how he drove in a variety of conditions, you can see how he performed against his team mates and colleagues. If people were honest and not blinkered by hatred or bias, it is clear to see that he is arguably the greatest F1 driver.
His physical, technical and mental abilities in one package is nigh on impossible to find. Funny that martial talked about what happened with Alonso but ignores the manufactured advantage the Renault's had in those title winning years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the point i made about renault in 05 and 06 was renault were the first team in micheals era who attempted to copy the ferrari way of doing things -
------- and as we can see they and alonso beat micheal at his own game for those 2 yrs which for me shows shows how manufactured and phoney micheals achievments were at ferrari --
------------- having said that no way will i disrespect him as he obviously was a top driver that fitted into the ferrari philosophy way of motor racing at the time --
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 13 hours, 53 minutes ago
But also in defence of MA, and at risk of being accused of poking my nose by the aforementioned, I can't get out of my head the Melbourne incident with Hill, the failed yet worthlessly punished attempt to take out Villienueve, parking his car at Monaco to stop qualifying. Then there is the issue of special tyres, though how much this can be proved is in itself debatable. Add onto this the way the FIA seemed (seem) so biased towards Ferrari. You can understand why people say his titles were manufactured or won by illicit means.
Yes Schumi was a great driver, but should the need any help like this, and I could include in that statement Prost and Senna. We are ALL blinded by personal preferences. I still think Senna was the best despite the above statement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
got no problem with you talking about motor racing with me -
----- i am not sure if micheal will ever be judged on his few little racing accidents that all drivers have , as you hint in the wider picture he will probably be judged on all the unfair advantages he had over his rivals at the time --
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 6 hours, 46 minutes ago
Yes, I agree some things Schumi did were disgraceful bt he's not the first. Or the last. Ssenna did similar things, Prost had a clause in hiss contract,Alonso tried to blackmail Mclaren, had a team mate. Crash for him to win a race, a victory he still claims, incident at hngaroring with Hamilton, team order gate and rarely got punished unlike schuhmi who got pnished for all those incidents bar the hill one.
People just hold those against him because of his success. I'll never forget what Irvine said when he was interviewed and these 'whims' were brought up about preferential treatment demanded by schumi and he called it BS and he is not one to mince his words.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
when you look at micheals very few misdemeanors on the track they were not actually that bad -
---------- in reality alot of the related bollox that has been written about micheal has been written on the various internet forums by i suspect english forum members who have never forgiven him for his racing accident with hill at aus 94 which in effect stopped hill from winning the title that year -
----------- bypassing the usual pig ignorant internet forum biggotry against micheal and aus 94 and you are not actually left with very much else to criticize him for --
Sign in if you want to comment
German Race Thread
Page 10 of 10
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
posted on 21/7/14
comment by martial artist (U9033) always insisted on team orders and dummy subservient lacky no 2 team mates because he was terrified of competition within his team hence had all his titles manufactured for him -
---------------------
Which drivers, during his period of dominance, would have deserved a seat at Ferrari and been able to challenge him?
posted on 21/7/14
Martial you keep mixing Vettel and Schumacher. They are different you know
posted on 21/7/14
comment by N_six0six (U13776)
posted 1 day, 1 hour ago
I see you are equally efficient at insulting n606 members as you are over here WTCBU
Good race regardless of the little fall outs I'm sure people will have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hold my hand up and admit that I was unnecessarily harsh with him in denouncing his post.
Any reasonable minded person, such as yourself, would of course pointed him in the direction of links to the informative sites that if he bookmarked them and visited them on a regular basis, would have greatly enhanced his knowledge of F1.
I am sure that you will not feel that your nose is out of joint if I post those links on your behalf.
http://www.formula1.com/default.html
http://www.autosport.com/f1/
http://www.fia.com/sport/championships/news/formula-1-world-championship
And, of course, when all else fails, do what millions of other Vettel fans do when they want information
https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hl=en&site=webhp&source=hp&q=how+do+i+google+something&oq=how+do+i+goo&gs_l=hp.3.0.0l10.1596.4977.0.8135.13.12.0.1.1.0.211.1275.9j2j1.12.0....0...1c.1.49.hp..1.12.1133.0.O7cU-nlOR_E
posted on 22/7/14
comment by WTCBU (U13662)
posted 1 day ago
comment by martial artist (U9033) always insisted on team orders and dummy subservient lacky no 2 team mates because he was terrified of competition within his team hence had all his titles manufactured for him -
---------------------
Which drivers, during his period of dominance, would have deserved a seat at Ferrari and been able to challenge him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
to be honest wtcbu i had alot of respect for micheal but not for the todt / brawn / byrne / regime that manufactured his titles for him , the team orders policy / weak team mates policy he enjoyed for so long gave him a massive advantage over the other drivers in his era for nearly all of his career -
micheal was also lucky he raced in a very weak era after prost and senna left the sport , in all honesty probably mika hakk , hh frentzen , montoya , would have gave micheal all the trouble he could handle during his era had they been allowed to race micheal in the same team without team orders --
--- hold my hands up i was only rattling manx"s cage when i posted my initial reply --
posted on 23/7/14
But you didn't rattle my cage martial. Schumacher was the greatest and to suggest the Mclaren's and Williams were weak is most amusing.
Also suggesting his titles were manufactured is hilarious. If you want to see a manufactured world champion, it is Vettel
posted on 23/7/14
Nah that would be button
posted on 23/7/14
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 10 hours, 48 minutes ago
But you didn't rattle my cage martial. Schumacher was the greatest and to suggest the Mclaren's and Williams were weak is most amusing.
Also suggesting his titles were manufactured is hilarious. If you want to see a manufactured world champion, it is Vettel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was only having a bit of fun with you manx , no sinister agenda bud -
i never suggested the mclaren and williams were weak during his ferrari wdc years from 2000 onwards but overall ferrari had the strongest package during his dominant years there - 02 and 04 ferrari were light yrs above the rest -
as i said micheal had a massive advantage and i do mean massive because of the team orders luxury that he had over all his rivals in his 5 ferrari WDCs which in effect meant nobody else actually had a prayer of a chance of beating him over those 5 seasons such was the advantage of team orders when his rivals did not employ such unfair tactics -
which is the main reason the historians and polls of substance will never rate him as the best ever , because he had so many manufactured unfair advantages over his rivals at the time --
posted on 24/7/14
He created the advantage by making the Ferrari thhe best car on the grid. It was not when he joined. From his very first day on an F1 track everyone knew someone pecial had arrived.
Most of the people who do not like him were jealos. I can understand that but his technical acmen and ability to drive anything in any condition is unmatched.
His team mate Eddie Jordan who has dismissed. A lot of the BS said about MS and you know EI pulls no punches made it clear. How special he was to constantly put the car high up on the grid and win races even when it had no right to.
Do not believe we will ever see someone like him again who was the total package.
posted on 24/7/14
Ther Ferrari was only the best car in 02 and 04. Williams were better in 96 and 97 McLaren had the better car in 98,99,2000 and it was level in 2001 and 2003 Williams had the best car. Renault was the best car 05 and 06 to. FACT
posted on 24/7/14
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 14 hours, 10 minutes ago
He created the advantage by making the Ferrari thhe best car on the grid. It was not when he joined. From his very first day on an F1 track everyone knew someone pecial had arrived.
Most of the people who do not like him were jealos. I can understand that but his technical acmen and ability to drive anything in any condition is unmatched.
His team mate Eddie Jordan who has dismissed. A lot of the BS said about MS and you know EI pulls no punches made it clear. How special he was to constantly put the car high up on the grid and win races even when it had no right to.
Do not believe we will ever see someone like him again who was the total package.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
manx you are not saying anything of real substance mate
-- micheal was not a designer or an aerodynamist he was merely a good driver -- nothing more , how could a driver with absolutely no design experience turn any F1 car into the best car on the grid ,
in realty it was jean todt with the ferrari purse strings who bought a large chunk of the benettone design team who then in effect became the ferrari design team to design cars purely for micheal -
combine this with team orders and a host of other manufactured advantages including special bespoke bridgestone tyres especially for ferrari which in effect was especially for schumacher that no other driver in the history of the sport had ever enjoyed before or since and micheal and ferrari became unbeatable for 5 yrs -
it was only when renault with alonso in 05 and 06 copied ferrari at there own game that the micheal schumacher myth was blown into little pieces and people could see for themselves there was nothing really special about micheal
--------so much so that the ferrari bosses had no more use for schumacher and forced micheal out of ferrari after 06 --
posted on 24/7/14
Martial, you have not posted anything of substance, just speculation and conjecture.
The facts are there in black and white, deal with it
posted on 24/7/14
Interesting discussion regarding Michael Schumacher's WDC's.
From what I gather, and I do not wish to distort or misrepresent views, apparently the consensus of opinion is that Michael Schumacher's 7 WDC's are worthless.
Again, I do not wish to misrepresent anyone's genuine view or opinion but it would appear that the criteria for judging the value of a F1 driver's achievement in becoming a WDC is based on any one of the following.
1. The designer
2. The tyre
3. The team mate
4. The team orders
5. An opinion poll
So
1. The designer - MS fails because of Byrne but Vettel is OK because of Newey.
2. The tyre - 3 of MS titles were won on sole supplier tyres
3. The team mate - Name me a driver that would have been a genuine candidate for a F1 seat that could have challenged MS in the same team.
4. Team orders – well if Ferrari employed low quality team mates then team orders would not be needed. Reason 4 directly contradicts reason 3.
5. An opinion poll – So out of 32 WDC's in history we should denounce the achievements of 31 of them because only one of them could be voted top?
posted on 25/7/14
On the MS issue, for me, i think you are both to a degree correct.
I see nothing wrong with saying that MS was the greatest driver, there is so much compelling evidence. However i also agree that a number of his WDC's where "manufactured" in that i mean, he had some mechanical advantages over his rivals. Remember guys, it can be both, you can be the greatest driver, and have the greatest advantage.
posted on 25/7/14
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 3 minutes ago
On the MS issue, for me, i think you are both to a degree correct.
I see nothing wrong with saying that MS was the greatest driver, there is so much compelling evidence. However i also agree that a number of his WDC's where "manufactured" in that i mean, he had some mechanical advantages over his rivals. Remember guys, it can be both, you can be the greatest driver, and have the greatest advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no issue with Schumi having a mechanical advantage. All the cars are not the same and have some mechanical advantages or disadvantages.
Therefore, we can look at their performances when they did not have these advantages and make an objective assessment.
You can look at his very first visit to an F1 track and first time driving an F1 car and beating an established driver, you can look at how Bennetton moved heaven and earth to get him and how Jordan tried to block it, you can see what he did with Benetton and what he did with Ferrari.
You can see how he drove in a variety of conditions, you can see how he performed against his team mates and colleagues. If people were honest and not blinkered by hatred or bias, it is clear to see that he is arguably the greatest F1 driver.
His physical, technical and mental abilities in one package is nigh on impossible to find. Funny that martial talked about what happened with Alonso but ignores the manufactured advantage the Renault's had in those title winning years.
posted on 25/7/14
But also in defence of MA, and at risk of being accused of poking my nose by the aforementioned, I can't get out of my head the Melbourne incident with Hill, the failed yet worthlessly punished attempt to take out Villienueve, parking his car at Monaco to stop qualifying. Then there is the issue of special tyres, though how much this can be proved is in itself debatable. Add onto this the way the FIA seemed (seem) so biased towards Ferrari. You can understand why people say his titles were manufactured or won by illicit means.
Yes Schumi was a great driver, but should the need any help like this, and I could include in that statement Prost and Senna. We are ALL blinded by personal preferences. I still think Senna was the best despite the above statement.
posted on 26/7/14
Yes, I agree some things Schumi did were disgraceful bt he's not the first. Or the last. Ssenna did similar things, Prost had a clause in hiss contract,Alonso tried to blackmail Mclaren, had a team mate. Crash for him to win a race, a victory he still claims, incident at hngaroring with Hamilton, team order gate and rarely got punished unlike schuhmi who got pnished for all those incidents bar the hill one.
People just hold those against him because of his success. I'll never forget what Irvine said when he was interviewed and these 'whims' were brought up about preferential treatment demanded by schumi and he called it BS and he is not one to mince his words.
posted on 26/7/14
comment by WTCBU (U13662)
posted 1 day, 9 hours ago
Interesting discussion regarding Michael Schumacher's WDC's.
From what I gather, and I do not wish to distort or misrepresent views, apparently the consensus of opinion is that Michael Schumacher's 7 WDC's are worthless.
Again, I do not wish to misrepresent anyone's genuine view or opinion but it would appear that the criteria for judging the value of a F1 driver's achievement in becoming a WDC is based on any one of the following.
1. The designer
2. The tyre
3. The team mate
4. The team orders
5. An opinion poll
So
1. The designer - MS fails because of Byrne but Vettel is OK because of Newey.
2. The tyre - 3 of MS titles were won on sole supplier tyres
3. The team mate - Name me a driver that would have been a genuine candidate for a F1 seat that could have challenged MS in the same team.
4. Team orders – well if Ferrari employed low quality team mates then team orders would not be needed. Reason 4 directly contradicts reason 3.
5. An opinion poll – So out of 32 WDC's in history we should denounce the achievements of 31 of them because only one of them could be voted top?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
when you look at micheal and his standing in the sport and his achievements and to how he is judged in relation to his rivals you cannot overlook the many manufactured unfair advantages he had in relation to those rivals -
the ferrari regime at the time decided to pursue a different route to there direct rivals in putting all there eggs in one basket and focusing purely on one driver and putting all there resources into micheal knowing that the drivers championship would be guaranteed all the time they pursued such a route -
------- not that it is important but it was the ferrari way of doing things at the time and the manufactured advantages they gave him at the time which will prevent him from ever being thought of as the best ever --
posted on 26/7/14
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 20 hours, 16 minutes ago
comment by BWFCCLEGG (U7583)
posted 3 minutes ago
On the MS issue, for me, i think you are both to a degree correct.
I see nothing wrong with saying that MS was the greatest driver, there is so much compelling evidence. However i also agree that a number of his WDC's where "manufactured" in that i mean, he had some mechanical advantages over his rivals. Remember guys, it can be both, you can be the greatest driver, and have the greatest advantage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no issue with Schumi having a mechanical advantage. All the cars are not the same and have some mechanical advantages or disadvantages.
Therefore, we can look at their performances when they did not have these advantages and make an objective assessment.
You can look at his very first visit to an F1 track and first time driving an F1 car and beating an established driver, you can look at how Bennetton moved heaven and earth to get him and how Jordan tried to block it, you can see what he did with Benetton and what he did with Ferrari.
You can see how he drove in a variety of conditions, you can see how he performed against his team mates and colleagues. If people were honest and not blinkered by hatred or bias, it is clear to see that he is arguably the greatest F1 driver.
His physical, technical and mental abilities in one package is nigh on impossible to find. Funny that martial talked about what happened with Alonso but ignores the manufactured advantage the Renault's had in those title winning years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the point i made about renault in 05 and 06 was renault were the first team in micheals era who attempted to copy the ferrari way of doing things -
------- and as we can see they and alonso beat micheal at his own game for those 2 yrs which for me shows shows how manufactured and phoney micheals achievments were at ferrari --
------------- having said that no way will i disrespect him as he obviously was a top driver that fitted into the ferrari philosophy way of motor racing at the time --
posted on 26/7/14
comment by go-cellino-go (U6730)
posted 13 hours, 53 minutes ago
But also in defence of MA, and at risk of being accused of poking my nose by the aforementioned, I can't get out of my head the Melbourne incident with Hill, the failed yet worthlessly punished attempt to take out Villienueve, parking his car at Monaco to stop qualifying. Then there is the issue of special tyres, though how much this can be proved is in itself debatable. Add onto this the way the FIA seemed (seem) so biased towards Ferrari. You can understand why people say his titles were manufactured or won by illicit means.
Yes Schumi was a great driver, but should the need any help like this, and I could include in that statement Prost and Senna. We are ALL blinded by personal preferences. I still think Senna was the best despite the above statement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
got no problem with you talking about motor racing with me -
----- i am not sure if micheal will ever be judged on his few little racing accidents that all drivers have , as you hint in the wider picture he will probably be judged on all the unfair advantages he had over his rivals at the time --
posted on 26/7/14
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 6 hours, 46 minutes ago
Yes, I agree some things Schumi did were disgraceful bt he's not the first. Or the last. Ssenna did similar things, Prost had a clause in hiss contract,Alonso tried to blackmail Mclaren, had a team mate. Crash for him to win a race, a victory he still claims, incident at hngaroring with Hamilton, team order gate and rarely got punished unlike schuhmi who got pnished for all those incidents bar the hill one.
People just hold those against him because of his success. I'll never forget what Irvine said when he was interviewed and these 'whims' were brought up about preferential treatment demanded by schumi and he called it BS and he is not one to mince his words.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
when you look at micheals very few misdemeanors on the track they were not actually that bad -
---------- in reality alot of the related bollox that has been written about micheal has been written on the various internet forums by i suspect english forum members who have never forgiven him for his racing accident with hill at aus 94 which in effect stopped hill from winning the title that year -
----------- bypassing the usual pig ignorant internet forum biggotry against micheal and aus 94 and you are not actually left with very much else to criticize him for --
Page 10 of 10
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10