comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 23 minutes ago
I am not sure what point you are making though.
-----------
Extremist elements exist in Israel as part of the right wing section of society.
Cal, is it these same people that continue lobbying for the occupation to continue?
So we have decided that benayoun isn't a disgrace after all, he just has an opinion based on more than most here havingblived there.
So the real disgrace is the clown who started the article.
And only 2503 comments to get to that point
Well no, he is an idiot. He attacked Barton for making respectable comments asking for Israel to kindly stop killing innocent children.
Benayoun is a member of a state which operates fierce propaganda asserting its dominance and right to subjugate its neighbours. His opinion will be skewed and what he knows will be more blurred than those in states outside of the conflict.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 23 minutes ago
I am not sure what point you are making though.
-----------
Extremist elements exist in Israel as part of the right wing section of society.
Cal, is it these same people that continue lobbying for the occupation to continue?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The present government is a coalition of right wing parties.They are more hawkish than the opposition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The present Israeli government is fairly extremist. It's only that its extremism has been normalised and is led by a relative moderate.
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 25 minutes ago
The Jews drove out the people before then you numpty.
To pretend that one race has more right to that land than another is selective history taken to new heights.
In the Torah it advocates the subjugation of the Canaanites who lived in the region beforehand.
This land is no more the Jew's than it is anyone who has lived in the region. All have taken it by conquest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but it is also no LESS the Jews than the decedents o those that drove them out.
I just made the mistake of reading some of the history on the land disputes
WTF. That place is an unsolvable disaster.
Well I don't know about that. Generally I tend to think there should be a line drawn under the sand and that whoever is there now has a right to it. Which means the Palestinians and the Israelis have a right to it. I deplore the mass immigration technique Zionism employed to gain control of the land but they're there now. It is beyond time that people stopped pretending that their god gave them their land and just accept that they are all people living on a strip of land and get over it.
The descendants of the original Israelites have no more right to the land than I do. After all, some crusaders controlled it at one point. Richard the Lionheart and all that. They only have a right to be there if they are there.
It's also worth noting that these disputes stem from minute populations. There were about 40,000 people in Israel in the 12th century BC. To put that into context, Eastbourne has 99,412 people currently and Corby has 61,600 people. It's crazy to think people are still hung up on the actions of such a small group of people.
I've been saying extremism is the biggest problem in the world for a while. There are right wing extremists in Israels government which I find worrying, but they were elected in response to the extremists, Hamas
.........................................................
And who do you think Hamas were elected in response to?
....................................................
Before that Israel were fairly liberal and had an open border policy.
....................................................
Whilst occupying another people's lands and hogging the majority of the resources, ones vital for survival and ones vital for an economy.
Gooner you do realise this conflict didn't start with Hamas and has actually been going on for decades right?
.........................................
Israel is the historic home of the Jews going back 1000s of years.
.........................................
So as I understand Gooner you would be happy to be kicked out of your home and off your land as long as the people doing it had ancestors that lived there 1000's of years ago?
I will be over in a bit, get you stuff packed. Don't worry it will be a fair deal, like the current Israeli-Palestine one, Ill have everything but the basement. You can have that, but there will be a security zone in the basement also so you will be restricted to that.
Any fighting back and you'll be branded a terrorist..... best of luck
The descendants of the original Israelites have no more right to the land than I do. After all, some crusaders controlled it at one point. Richard the Lionheart and all that. They only have a right to be there if they are there.
........................................................
Exactly, Soviet Russia probably had better claims on many of the European lands they conquered I don't think people would have made the same arguments in their favour.
If we can go back thousands of odd years and set up a new country there then everyone is pretty much in trouble.
I think most do realistically accept that it was a pretty insane idea in the first place and it has caused years and years of conflict because of it.
The only way to solve it in my eyes is a 1 state solution. Both sets of people get everything. They both get Jerusalem, they both get the good farming land, they both get access to all the water. Every policy has to go through both a Jewish elected house and an Arab elected house to be passed so neither side can control the other.
Unfortunately whilst many but the most extreme of Palestinians would accept this the Israeli's would never accept it. A large number of them believe their ill begotten gains should stay.
That is why international pressure so strong on the Israeli's that they drop their belligerent attitude is the only way this conflict is going to end...
Assuming they don't eventually manage to move them all or kill them all.
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 8 minutes ago
I've been saying extremism is the biggest problem in the world for a while. There are right wing extremists in Israels government which I find worrying, but they were elected in response to the extremists, Hamas
.........................................................
And who do you think Hamas were elected in response to?
....................................................
Before that Israel were fairly liberal and had an open border policy.
....................................................
Whilst occupying another people's lands and hogging the majority of the resources, ones vital for survival and ones vital for an economy.
Gooner you do realise this conflict didn't start with Hamas and has actually been going on for decades right?
.........................................
Israel is the historic home of the Jews going back 1000s of years.
.........................................
So as I understand Gooner you would be happy to be kicked out of your home and off your land as long as the people doing it had ancestors that lived there 1000's of years ago?
I will be over in a bit, get you stuff packed. Don't worry it will be a fair deal, like the current Israeli-Palestine one, Ill have everything but the basement. You can have that, but there will be a security zone in the basement also so you will be restricted to that.
Any fighting back and you'll be branded a terrorist..... best of luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
Take the deal fella, SAF has already made it clear he will not hold a grudge if you begin indiscriminately killing his aunties, uncles, children and so on.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
-------
In the same 'factual' way, you accept America was born out of terrorism.
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 1 minute ago
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
-------
In the same 'factual' way, you accept America was born out of terrorism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you seem to keep implying that i am an american fanboy? I am British
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 5 minutes ago
The descendants of the original Israelites have no more right to the land than I do. After all, some crusaders controlled it at one point. Richard the Lionheart and all that. They only have a right to be there if they are there.
........................................................
Exactly, Soviet Russia probably had better claims on many of the European lands they conquered I don't think people would have made the same arguments in their favour.
If we can go back thousands of odd years and set up a new country there then everyone is pretty much in trouble.
I think most do realistically accept that it was a pretty insane idea in the first place and it has caused years and years of conflict because of it.
The only way to solve it in my eyes is a 1 state solution. Both sets of people get everything. They both get Jerusalem, they both get the good farming land, they both get access to all the water. Every policy has to go through both a Jewish elected house and an Arab elected house to be passed so neither side can control the other.
Unfortunately whilst many but the most extreme of Palestinians would accept this the Israeli's would never accept it. A large number of them believe their ill begotten gains should stay.
That is why international pressure so strong on the Israeli's that they drop their belligerent attitude is the only way this conflict is going to end...
Assuming they don't eventually manage to move them all or kill them all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you wholeheartedly that the final solution (phrasing, sorry) to this conflict is eventually a single state. I think the two state solution is necessary in the relative short term so say thirty years while the wounds heal a bit. I think Israel should probably stop their Aliyahs, as it will only serve to eventually achieve ethnic dominance of the area though, of course, this is a policy that would benefit them hugely.
The issue is that the Israeli people believe that they have their state for Jewish people to defend themselves against the world. Most people believe the state was set up for that purpose in the wake of the Holocaust. The truth is that, by then, the Jewish people were all already there due to the aforementioned Aliyahs. We didn't have much choice in giving them the land. Throw in their belief in their God given right to the land (here's another plug for this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pKMV6e5kEo) and it's very obvious that they want hegemony over the region.
I personally find it convenient that they just so happen to have their promised land in an area that is highly fertile but also within the known world at the time. Surely their God would have been aware of even more fertile lands, such as Britain or Ukraine. Weird huh.
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 18 minutes ago
I've been saying extremism is the biggest problem in the world for a while. There are right wing extremists in Israels government which I find worrying, but they were elected in response to the extremists, Hamas
.........................................................
And who do you think Hamas were elected in response to?
....................................................
Before that Israel were fairly liberal and had an open border policy.
....................................................
Whilst occupying another people's lands and hogging the majority of the resources, ones vital for survival and ones vital for an economy.
Gooner you do realise this conflict didn't start with Hamas and has actually been going on for decades right?
.........................................
Israel is the historic home of the Jews going back 1000s of years.
.........................................
So as I understand Gooner you would be happy to be kicked out of your home and off your land as long as the people doing it had ancestors that lived there 1000's of years ago?
I will be over in a bit, get you stuff packed. Don't worry it will be a fair deal, like the current Israeli-Palestine one, Ill have everything but the basement. You can have that, but there will be a security zone in the basement also so you will be restricted to that.
Any fighting back and you'll be branded a terrorist..... best of luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually I see your argument more as me going back and kicking the people out of the house I sold. At the time I was happy to take the money and go, but I've decided since they made some improvements that I want it back so they must just leave as it used to be mine. The fact it was legally bought and they are there now doesn't matter, it was mine so should be now.
I am Gooner, your arguments are inane and demonstrably useless. How on earth does your analogy work?
He seems to think that the land they took was all paid for...
Not sure how he figured that out. He did also tell me the other days that the Jews didn't use terrorism to drive out the British so they could form Israel, don't think he actually knows much about the history of it.
Getting to the other comments now.
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
Take the deal fella, SAF has already made it clear he will not hold a grudge if you begin indiscriminately killing his aunties, uncles, children and so on.
...............................................................
TBH if my family had stolen their land made them live in poverty and throughout a number of decades had killed them at a far higher rate than they killed my family members I could I probably understand why they did it...
If I wanted to solve the problem I might even try giving back some of what I stole, giving them better access to basic resources such as water, giving them access to vital resources needed to make an economy work and lift them out of poverty. Apologise for the original crime of my ancestors and try and begin a workable dialogue with them...
Unless of course I didn't want to give anything I'd taken away and wanted more of it. Then I would just ignore their far greater casualty list and justify my actions with the far fewer casualties I had received throughout the years....
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 4 minutes ago
I am Gooner, your arguments are inane and demonstrably useless. How on earth does your analogy work?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You say that but have an obvious lack of knowledge of history. For example when the land was bought to reinstate Israel it was little more than a wasteland, which I believe places like Bethlehem still are because they haven't had investment, but the Jews with their wealth paid for a lot to be done including irrigation in the area which transformed the land into the fertile and rich land we see today.
And that was after the land had been bought and paid for by the Allies following WW2 in order to re-establish Israel. The problem with a lot of the pro-Palestinian posters on here is you seem to have double standards. Let me out it the other way around to match SAFs comment. I bought my house legally and it is now mine. If SAF (Hamas) who has no legal claim comes to my house to try to take it off me I will use whatever force is necessary to stop him and if he tries to kill me and my family I will kill him to defend my family.
I think freedom fighter and terrorist are mutually exclusive. It's not a subjective thing.
Once you resort to terrorist actions you're a terrorist and relinquish your freedom fighter status.
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 2 minutes ago
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
Take the deal fella, SAF has already made it clear he will not hold a grudge if you begin indiscriminately killing his aunties, uncles, children and so on.
...............................................................
TBH if my family had stolen their land made them live in poverty and throughout a number of decades had killed them at a far higher rate than they killed my family members I could I probably understand why they did it...
If I wanted to solve the problem I might even try giving back some of what I stole, giving them better access to basic resources such as water, giving them access to vital resources needed to make an economy work and lift them out of poverty. Apologise for the original crime of my ancestors and try and begin a workable dialogue with them...
Unless of course I didn't want to give anything I'd taken away and wanted more of it. Then I would just ignore their far greater casualty list and justify my actions with the far fewer casualties I had received throughout the years....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but those people the terror groups have killed in Markets, disco's and buses didn't take the land or anything else, thats the government and its buddies.
So why take it out on the general public?
It is like a chinaman killing my family, but i couldn't find the right guy to retaliate so i just killed any random chinaman instead.
A one state solution maybe fine in principle but I can never see it getting off the ground.
....................................
Probably the only thing we have agreed on so far.... although tbh I struggle to see anything that would work short of one side being wiped out but maybe I am a bit pessimistic...
...................................................
I agree with you wholeheartedly that the final solution (phrasing, sorry) to this conflict is eventually a single state. I think the two state solution is necessary in the relative short term so say thirty years while the wounds heal a bit. I think Israel should probably stop their Aliyahs, as it will only serve to eventually achieve ethnic dominance of the area though, of course, this is a policy that would benefit them hugely.
...................................................
TBH I thought the Palestinian population had actually grown more than the Israeli one since the founding of Israel. Mainly because people in poverty tend to have more children, would have to check the figures on that one as I am not sure.
Not that I wouldn't want the two state solution but there are so many little issues that the two sides can't agree on. Jerusalem being a big one, that would at the very least have to be shared for both sides to agree I think.
Both sides probably always see themselves losing out in peace deals, the Israeli's by giving back what they have taken and the Palestinians by signing away their right to what was previously theirs. Its a difficult deal for both sides to make.
You can understand the siege mentality given what happened to the Jews in Europe but it is very unfortunate that all that mistreatment is being taken out on a innocent group of people. I imagine the Palestinians have built up their own sort of siege mentality in the decades since Israels creation... 2 sets of people facing off who both feel like they have been wrong is always a recipe for disaster.
........................................
I personally find it convenient that they just so happen to have their promised land in an area that is highly fertile but also within the known world at the time. Surely their God would have been aware of even more fertile lands, such as Britain or Ukraine. Weird huh.
...............................................
People's gods always look after their people first, merely coincidence though can't understand your conspiratorial attitude towards it
Benayoun is a Disgrace
Page 101 of 146
102 | 103 | 104 | 105 | 106
posted on 1/8/14
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 23 minutes ago
I am not sure what point you are making though.
-----------
Extremist elements exist in Israel as part of the right wing section of society.
Cal, is it these same people that continue lobbying for the occupation to continue?
posted on 1/8/14
So we have decided that benayoun isn't a disgrace after all, he just has an opinion based on more than most here havingblived there.
So the real disgrace is the clown who started the article.
posted on 1/8/14
And only 2503 comments to get to that point
posted on 1/8/14
Well no, he is an idiot. He attacked Barton for making respectable comments asking for Israel to kindly stop killing innocent children.
Benayoun is a member of a state which operates fierce propaganda asserting its dominance and right to subjugate its neighbours. His opinion will be skewed and what he knows will be more blurred than those in states outside of the conflict.
posted on 1/8/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 1/8/14
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 23 minutes ago
I am not sure what point you are making though.
-----------
Extremist elements exist in Israel as part of the right wing section of society.
Cal, is it these same people that continue lobbying for the occupation to continue?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The present government is a coalition of right wing parties.They are more hawkish than the opposition.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The present Israeli government is fairly extremist. It's only that its extremism has been normalised and is led by a relative moderate.
posted on 1/8/14
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 25 minutes ago
The Jews drove out the people before then you numpty.
To pretend that one race has more right to that land than another is selective history taken to new heights.
In the Torah it advocates the subjugation of the Canaanites who lived in the region beforehand.
This land is no more the Jew's than it is anyone who has lived in the region. All have taken it by conquest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but it is also no LESS the Jews than the decedents o those that drove them out.
posted on 1/8/14
I just made the mistake of reading some of the history on the land disputes
WTF. That place is an unsolvable disaster.
posted on 1/8/14
Well I don't know about that. Generally I tend to think there should be a line drawn under the sand and that whoever is there now has a right to it. Which means the Palestinians and the Israelis have a right to it. I deplore the mass immigration technique Zionism employed to gain control of the land but they're there now. It is beyond time that people stopped pretending that their god gave them their land and just accept that they are all people living on a strip of land and get over it.
The descendants of the original Israelites have no more right to the land than I do. After all, some crusaders controlled it at one point. Richard the Lionheart and all that. They only have a right to be there if they are there.
posted on 1/8/14
It's also worth noting that these disputes stem from minute populations. There were about 40,000 people in Israel in the 12th century BC. To put that into context, Eastbourne has 99,412 people currently and Corby has 61,600 people. It's crazy to think people are still hung up on the actions of such a small group of people.
posted on 1/8/14
I've been saying extremism is the biggest problem in the world for a while. There are right wing extremists in Israels government which I find worrying, but they were elected in response to the extremists, Hamas
.........................................................
And who do you think Hamas were elected in response to?
....................................................
Before that Israel were fairly liberal and had an open border policy.
....................................................
Whilst occupying another people's lands and hogging the majority of the resources, ones vital for survival and ones vital for an economy.
Gooner you do realise this conflict didn't start with Hamas and has actually been going on for decades right?
.........................................
Israel is the historic home of the Jews going back 1000s of years.
.........................................
So as I understand Gooner you would be happy to be kicked out of your home and off your land as long as the people doing it had ancestors that lived there 1000's of years ago?
I will be over in a bit, get you stuff packed. Don't worry it will be a fair deal, like the current Israeli-Palestine one, Ill have everything but the basement. You can have that, but there will be a security zone in the basement also so you will be restricted to that.
Any fighting back and you'll be branded a terrorist..... best of luck
posted on 1/8/14
The descendants of the original Israelites have no more right to the land than I do. After all, some crusaders controlled it at one point. Richard the Lionheart and all that. They only have a right to be there if they are there.
........................................................
Exactly, Soviet Russia probably had better claims on many of the European lands they conquered I don't think people would have made the same arguments in their favour.
If we can go back thousands of odd years and set up a new country there then everyone is pretty much in trouble.
I think most do realistically accept that it was a pretty insane idea in the first place and it has caused years and years of conflict because of it.
The only way to solve it in my eyes is a 1 state solution. Both sets of people get everything. They both get Jerusalem, they both get the good farming land, they both get access to all the water. Every policy has to go through both a Jewish elected house and an Arab elected house to be passed so neither side can control the other.
Unfortunately whilst many but the most extreme of Palestinians would accept this the Israeli's would never accept it. A large number of them believe their ill begotten gains should stay.
That is why international pressure so strong on the Israeli's that they drop their belligerent attitude is the only way this conflict is going to end...
Assuming they don't eventually manage to move them all or kill them all.
posted on 1/8/14
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 8 minutes ago
I've been saying extremism is the biggest problem in the world for a while. There are right wing extremists in Israels government which I find worrying, but they were elected in response to the extremists, Hamas
.........................................................
And who do you think Hamas were elected in response to?
....................................................
Before that Israel were fairly liberal and had an open border policy.
....................................................
Whilst occupying another people's lands and hogging the majority of the resources, ones vital for survival and ones vital for an economy.
Gooner you do realise this conflict didn't start with Hamas and has actually been going on for decades right?
.........................................
Israel is the historic home of the Jews going back 1000s of years.
.........................................
So as I understand Gooner you would be happy to be kicked out of your home and off your land as long as the people doing it had ancestors that lived there 1000's of years ago?
I will be over in a bit, get you stuff packed. Don't worry it will be a fair deal, like the current Israeli-Palestine one, Ill have everything but the basement. You can have that, but there will be a security zone in the basement also so you will be restricted to that.
Any fighting back and you'll be branded a terrorist..... best of luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
Take the deal fella, SAF has already made it clear he will not hold a grudge if you begin indiscriminately killing his aunties, uncles, children and so on.
posted on 1/8/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 1/8/14
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
-------
In the same 'factual' way, you accept America was born out of terrorism.
posted on 1/8/14
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 1 minute ago
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
-------
In the same 'factual' way, you accept America was born out of terrorism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you seem to keep implying that i am an american fanboy? I am British
posted on 1/8/14
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 5 minutes ago
The descendants of the original Israelites have no more right to the land than I do. After all, some crusaders controlled it at one point. Richard the Lionheart and all that. They only have a right to be there if they are there.
........................................................
Exactly, Soviet Russia probably had better claims on many of the European lands they conquered I don't think people would have made the same arguments in their favour.
If we can go back thousands of odd years and set up a new country there then everyone is pretty much in trouble.
I think most do realistically accept that it was a pretty insane idea in the first place and it has caused years and years of conflict because of it.
The only way to solve it in my eyes is a 1 state solution. Both sets of people get everything. They both get Jerusalem, they both get the good farming land, they both get access to all the water. Every policy has to go through both a Jewish elected house and an Arab elected house to be passed so neither side can control the other.
Unfortunately whilst many but the most extreme of Palestinians would accept this the Israeli's would never accept it. A large number of them believe their ill begotten gains should stay.
That is why international pressure so strong on the Israeli's that they drop their belligerent attitude is the only way this conflict is going to end...
Assuming they don't eventually manage to move them all or kill them all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you wholeheartedly that the final solution (phrasing, sorry) to this conflict is eventually a single state. I think the two state solution is necessary in the relative short term so say thirty years while the wounds heal a bit. I think Israel should probably stop their Aliyahs, as it will only serve to eventually achieve ethnic dominance of the area though, of course, this is a policy that would benefit them hugely.
The issue is that the Israeli people believe that they have their state for Jewish people to defend themselves against the world. Most people believe the state was set up for that purpose in the wake of the Holocaust. The truth is that, by then, the Jewish people were all already there due to the aforementioned Aliyahs. We didn't have much choice in giving them the land. Throw in their belief in their God given right to the land (here's another plug for this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pKMV6e5kEo) and it's very obvious that they want hegemony over the region.
I personally find it convenient that they just so happen to have their promised land in an area that is highly fertile but also within the known world at the time. Surely their God would have been aware of even more fertile lands, such as Britain or Ukraine. Weird huh.
posted on 1/8/14
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 18 minutes ago
I've been saying extremism is the biggest problem in the world for a while. There are right wing extremists in Israels government which I find worrying, but they were elected in response to the extremists, Hamas
.........................................................
And who do you think Hamas were elected in response to?
....................................................
Before that Israel were fairly liberal and had an open border policy.
....................................................
Whilst occupying another people's lands and hogging the majority of the resources, ones vital for survival and ones vital for an economy.
Gooner you do realise this conflict didn't start with Hamas and has actually been going on for decades right?
.........................................
Israel is the historic home of the Jews going back 1000s of years.
.........................................
So as I understand Gooner you would be happy to be kicked out of your home and off your land as long as the people doing it had ancestors that lived there 1000's of years ago?
I will be over in a bit, get you stuff packed. Don't worry it will be a fair deal, like the current Israeli-Palestine one, Ill have everything but the basement. You can have that, but there will be a security zone in the basement also so you will be restricted to that.
Any fighting back and you'll be branded a terrorist..... best of luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually I see your argument more as me going back and kicking the people out of the house I sold. At the time I was happy to take the money and go, but I've decided since they made some improvements that I want it back so they must just leave as it used to be mine. The fact it was legally bought and they are there now doesn't matter, it was mine so should be now.
posted on 1/8/14
I am Gooner, your arguments are inane and demonstrably useless. How on earth does your analogy work?
posted on 1/8/14
He seems to think that the land they took was all paid for...
Not sure how he figured that out. He did also tell me the other days that the Jews didn't use terrorism to drive out the British so they could form Israel, don't think he actually knows much about the history of it.
Getting to the other comments now.
posted on 1/8/14
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
Take the deal fella, SAF has already made it clear he will not hold a grudge if you begin indiscriminately killing his aunties, uncles, children and so on.
...............................................................
TBH if my family had stolen their land made them live in poverty and throughout a number of decades had killed them at a far higher rate than they killed my family members I could I probably understand why they did it...
If I wanted to solve the problem I might even try giving back some of what I stole, giving them better access to basic resources such as water, giving them access to vital resources needed to make an economy work and lift them out of poverty. Apologise for the original crime of my ancestors and try and begin a workable dialogue with them...
Unless of course I didn't want to give anything I'd taken away and wanted more of it. Then I would just ignore their far greater casualty list and justify my actions with the far fewer casualties I had received throughout the years....
posted on 1/8/14
comment by Giröulski Alt-153 and Alt-160 forever (U14971)
posted 4 minutes ago
I am Gooner, your arguments are inane and demonstrably useless. How on earth does your analogy work?
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You say that but have an obvious lack of knowledge of history. For example when the land was bought to reinstate Israel it was little more than a wasteland, which I believe places like Bethlehem still are because they haven't had investment, but the Jews with their wealth paid for a lot to be done including irrigation in the area which transformed the land into the fertile and rich land we see today.
And that was after the land had been bought and paid for by the Allies following WW2 in order to re-establish Israel. The problem with a lot of the pro-Palestinian posters on here is you seem to have double standards. Let me out it the other way around to match SAFs comment. I bought my house legally and it is now mine. If SAF (Hamas) who has no legal claim comes to my house to try to take it off me I will use whatever force is necessary to stop him and if he tries to kill me and my family I will kill him to defend my family.
posted on 1/8/14
I think freedom fighter and terrorist are mutually exclusive. It's not a subjective thing.
Once you resort to terrorist actions you're a terrorist and relinquish your freedom fighter status.
posted on 1/8/14
comment by SAF_The_Legend-FreePalestine (U5768)
posted 2 minutes ago
Being branded a terrorist doesn't matter apparently, its justified throughout this thread.
Take the deal fella, SAF has already made it clear he will not hold a grudge if you begin indiscriminately killing his aunties, uncles, children and so on.
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TBH if my family had stolen their land made them live in poverty and throughout a number of decades had killed them at a far higher rate than they killed my family members I could I probably understand why they did it...
If I wanted to solve the problem I might even try giving back some of what I stole, giving them better access to basic resources such as water, giving them access to vital resources needed to make an economy work and lift them out of poverty. Apologise for the original crime of my ancestors and try and begin a workable dialogue with them...
Unless of course I didn't want to give anything I'd taken away and wanted more of it. Then I would just ignore their far greater casualty list and justify my actions with the far fewer casualties I had received throughout the years....
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but those people the terror groups have killed in Markets, disco's and buses didn't take the land or anything else, thats the government and its buddies.
So why take it out on the general public?
It is like a chinaman killing my family, but i couldn't find the right guy to retaliate so i just killed any random chinaman instead.
posted on 1/8/14
A one state solution maybe fine in principle but I can never see it getting off the ground.
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Probably the only thing we have agreed on so far.... although tbh I struggle to see anything that would work short of one side being wiped out but maybe I am a bit pessimistic...
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I agree with you wholeheartedly that the final solution (phrasing, sorry) to this conflict is eventually a single state. I think the two state solution is necessary in the relative short term so say thirty years while the wounds heal a bit. I think Israel should probably stop their Aliyahs, as it will only serve to eventually achieve ethnic dominance of the area though, of course, this is a policy that would benefit them hugely.
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TBH I thought the Palestinian population had actually grown more than the Israeli one since the founding of Israel. Mainly because people in poverty tend to have more children, would have to check the figures on that one as I am not sure.
Not that I wouldn't want the two state solution but there are so many little issues that the two sides can't agree on. Jerusalem being a big one, that would at the very least have to be shared for both sides to agree I think.
Both sides probably always see themselves losing out in peace deals, the Israeli's by giving back what they have taken and the Palestinians by signing away their right to what was previously theirs. Its a difficult deal for both sides to make.
You can understand the siege mentality given what happened to the Jews in Europe but it is very unfortunate that all that mistreatment is being taken out on a innocent group of people. I imagine the Palestinians have built up their own sort of siege mentality in the decades since Israels creation... 2 sets of people facing off who both feel like they have been wrong is always a recipe for disaster.
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I personally find it convenient that they just so happen to have their promised land in an area that is highly fertile but also within the known world at the time. Surely their God would have been aware of even more fertile lands, such as Britain or Ukraine. Weird huh.
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People's gods always look after their people first, merely coincidence though can't understand your conspiratorial attitude towards it
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