So crashing out of 3 races is not many then?

That's irrelevant, as he only crashed out of one race.

Unless you want to use a definition of "crash out" that only you seem to be aware of.

Drunken Hobo (U7360) - With your reputation for posting unsubstantiated comments, that you refuse to answer to, then you should seriously think twice before bringing up the subject of credibility on this forum.

Hobo – you are nothing more than an itinerant WUM. Wandering from forum to forum and eventually stumblingly across a driver that you obviously have no knowledge of in a sport that you know even less.

You discovered F1 at the end of 2013 and was puzzled by the name Vettel. You decided to research it and discovered that he had won 4WDC's.

If only you had taken the trouble to actually watch the sport from a few years earlier, like 2009 or 2010, you would have been in a position to make an objective opinion of Sebastian Vettel's racing ability.

You may also have discovered why he was called the “Crash Kid”

All time great? They do not try to put another driver into a wall.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 hours, 56 minutes ago
So crashing out of 3 races is not many then?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

maybe i am missing something here manx - but from my recollection which is usually reasonable good vettel only made two errors of his own making that cost him heavily during 2010 ---- turkey and spa
--------- where was the third and how does this equate to many ?

when you consider he would have only been 23 yrs old at the time two errors that cost him big points would have been acceptable for one so young -

The third was in Silverstone martial.

Hobo, how many points did Seb gain from those races in Spa, Turkey and Silverstone?

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 minute ago
The third was in Silverstone martial.

Hobo, how many points did Seb gain from those races in Spa, Turkey and Silverstone?
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how do you apportion blame to vettel or anybody else for silverstone 2010 manx , from my recollection hamiltons front wing caught vettel"s left rear tyre which caused a puncture on the first lap
--- how do you come to the conclusion that was anybody"s fault ?

I wasn't even bothering to get that far into the details Martial, as the initial claim was so fundamentally flawed.

"Crashed out" means not finishing the race. Only on one occasion in 2010 did Vettel fail to finish a race due to collision damage, and he didn't take anybody with him. According to MUDD, that's "many times".

It just becomes pointless when someone starts using their own definitions for words. Can't communicate with someone when they're using a language of their own invention.

comment by Drunken Hobo (U7360)
posted 23 minutes ago
I wasn't even bothering to get that far into the details Martial, as the initial claim was so fundamentally flawed.

"Crashed out" means not finishing the race. Only on one occasion in 2010 did Vettel fail to finish a race due to collision damage, and he didn't take anybody with him. According to MUDD, that's "many times".

It just becomes pointless when someone starts using their own definitions for words. Can't communicate with someone when they're using a language of their own invention.
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yeh i am lucky hobo i have most of the races on disk so i can normally see who"s who and what"s what and who did what and when to whoever when the peeps on here get into it on here

How many point did Seb collect from those races Hobo? We are of course debating. How hard fought his 2010 title was, right?

So how many points did Vettel collect from those 3 races. This surely is a very simple question to answer

Martial, again, I would refer you to your own advice. I am having a discusssion with Hobo here, please. Do not get involved.

Many thanks

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 30 minutes ago
Martial, again, I would refer you to your own advice. I am having a discusssion with Hobo here, please. Do not get involved.

Many thanks
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come on now manx -- since when have i ever said you cannot join in with anything or anybody that i am debating with --- never

now come on manx dont start running away from me because i am making a point about silverstone 2010 you cannot counter

I'm not running away from you martial. You always tell us to not butt in when you are having a discussion with someone and are doing it now. Where is the consistency?

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm not running away from you martial. You always tell us to not butt in when you are having a discussion with someone and are doing it now. Where is the consistency?
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come on now manx lets not make up rubbish -

i have never asked anybody not to butt in any relevent intelligent F1 discussion i am having with anybody on here and you know it mate -

comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm not running away from you martial. You always tell us to not butt in when you are having a discussion with someone and are doing it now. Where is the consistency?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

come on now manx lets not make up rubbish -

i have never asked anybody not to butt in any relevent intelligent F1 discussion i am having with anybody on here and you know it mate -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Really martial? That's a lie

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by martial artist (U9033)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 minutes ago
I'm not running away from you martial. You always tell us to not butt in when you are having a discussion with someone and are doing it now. Where is the consistency?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

come on now manx lets not make up rubbish -

i have never asked anybody not to butt in any relevent intelligent F1 discussion i am having with anybody on here and you know it mate -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Really martial? That's a lie
----------------------------------------------------------------------

come on now manx -- stop running away from me i made a relevent point about silverstone 2010 and now you are just running away from the point because you know you cant counter it -
---------- i honestly thought you were better than that mate --

Martial, like I said, I am having a discussion with hobo, not you.

Find something else to talk about

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 19 seconds ago
Martial, like I said, I am having a discussion with hobo, not you.

Find something else to talk about
----------------------------------------------------------------------

its not a discussion at all -- you are trying to make somebody on here feel small by dissecting every syllable they say and trying to find a fault -
when i try and even out the debate with a significant point you run away from that point --

I'm not running away from you or any point. I am not debating with you, I am debating with Hobo.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 30 minutes ago
I'm not running away from you or any point. I am not debating with you, I am debating with Hobo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

so whats the problem then
------- you started to discuss 2010 and silverstone with me but when i made the point of what actually did happen you no longer want to talk about it or 2010 --

thats is just being ridiculous manx --

No, ridiculous is you trying to engage in a debate that does not concern you or one you do not know the background of

MUDD - please address my point first. It is irrelevant how many points Vettel scored in those three races, as he finished two of them. Once again, your claim was that he "crashed out many times". That has shown not to be true, using the standard English language definition of "crashed out", which would mean not finishing the race due to damage sustained in a crash.

I really didn't think you'd argue so strongly against that point. It's not something you can even argue against.

Hobo, I said I exaggerated a bit. I hold my hands up for that.

Since he finished those races, how many points did he get from them and how did that affect his championship

martial artist (U9033) I am sure that you and me, or should that be you and I, can debate anything.

The two of us would not “run away” or make people “Feel small by dissecting every syllable they say and trying to find a fault”

So let us look at the situation that we face. The term “crash out” could reasonably be construed, by dissecting every syllable, as implying that the driver did not finish the race. Which of course 2010 SPA Sebastian Vettel did finish the race. It is a fact proven by Wiki BEL 15.

OK, Sebastian Vettel had an avoidable collision. No surprises there. He had a race winning car that qualified in 4th raced to 3rd and then crashed into Jenson Button. That avoidable collision effectively put a racing driver with a race winning car into 15th place.

But the game was not over. Not satisfied with 15th place he had an avoidable collision with Vitantonio Liuzzi and ended up being classified as 15th.

Sebastian Vettel may not have “crashed out” as per the “ dissecting every syllable” rules that we dismiss, but he took a race winning car and had two collisions crashing his way out of the points.

Silverstone – your DVD of that race will show that Sebastian Vettel tried to barge into Mark Webber and got the worse of it. He then collided with Lewis Hamilton's front wing.

good morning wtcbu

yeh i agree at spa 2010 vettel made a pigs ear of things when he hit a bump and lost it under braking , after that his car was far from perfect which resulted in his biff with VL -- his mistake in the first place with the contact with button -

i dug out silverstone 2010 and to be honest it was nobody"s fault just the usual first lap aggression that all the drivers show with webber , vettel , and hamilton doing nothing out of the ordinary , when hamilton actually caught vettels right rear tyre with his front wing endplate vettel was nowhere near webber -

just one of those things that happen on the first lap with everybody trying to gain places - on a different day his tyre would have not got nicked or lewis might have lost part of his wing or both drivers would have got away with it
------ could not find fault with any of the 3 drivers at the time --

I think you should look at your DVD again.

I am referring to Silverstone 2010. Are you sure that you have looked at the same race?