"Like Rodgers and Dalglish inexplicably did with Suarez for example?"

No, I'm with you on that.

They virtually encouraged racism by wearing supportive bibs of Suarez after he'd been found guilty of being a racist.

comment by Villain of the Peace (U19898)
posted 1 minute ago
"comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 20 seconds ago
Villain of the Peace

With respect all you have presented is rhetoric.

Trying to portray a team with one of the best disciplinary records in the PL as “undisciplined” is at best naïve and at worst simple prejudice."

I could list any occasion that I believe mental frailties got the better of Arsenal, and for each occasion, there will be an equal and opposite reason. Can we ever prove it was mentality? Having built up a picture down the years, that (rightly or wrongly) is what I am putting it down to.

The manager defended his players atrocious attitude towards RVN when he missed the late pen in 2004(?) - virtually endorsing it.

Against United (again, ironically) when they lost 4-0 in the FA Cup (can't remember the year), Arsenal kicked United all over the park, and AW refused to acknowledge an issue.

Red cards have slowed a little, but even Arsenal will admit that the first 50 came in rapid time.

Again, don't know the season, but got knocked-out (effectively) of 3 (or was it 4?) competitions in a week.

The Gallas affair.

The League Cup final against Birmingham.

THe regular dropped points when the title race hots up.

Of course, it could all be down to a dodgy lasagne.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You've listed a few exampled over a 10 year period.

If you look hard enough you will find as many examples for the other top teams.....maybe not teams like Liverpool or Spurs etc because you have to actually get into the position of being in the running to win something before you can mentally weak it away.

"comment by ● (U4443)
posted 59 seconds ago
Take it you didn't watch the game at Old Trafford that ended our 49 game unbeaten run then?"

Aren't you supposed to be giving evidence AGAINST Arsenal bottling it on the big stage?

comment by Villain of the Peace (U19898)
posted 40 seconds ago
"Like Rodgers and Dalglish inexplicably did with Suarez for example?"

No, I'm with you on that.

They virtually encouraged racism by wearing supportive bibs of Suarez after he'd been found guilty of being a racist.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you'll forgive us if we don't lambast Wenger defending Keown and co being a bit rough/pushy with a player from a team that had such defendible angels as Roy Keane and Eric Cantona.

Seems pretty disgraceful that Sir Alex let Cantona play for Utd again after his assault on an innocent civilian?

But celebrating an opposition player missing a last minute penalty is much worse

comment by Villain of the Peace (U19898)
posted 1 minute ago
"comment by ● (U4443)
posted 59 seconds ago
Take it you didn't watch the game at Old Trafford that ended our 49 game unbeaten run then?"

Aren't you supposed to be giving evidence AGAINST Arsenal bottling it on the big stage?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're citing examples of Arsenal 'kicking Utd off the pitch' as if it's a sign of weakness.....bet you also think getting kicked off the park is a sign of weakness....but only if it's Arsenal of course.

"If you look hard enough you will find as many examples for the other top teams.....maybe not teams like Liverpool or Spurs etc because you have to actually get into the position of being in the running to win something before you can mentally weak it away."

I agree - the reason for Spurs and Liverpool not winning the league is for reasons other then being weak-minded. If I were to write an article on their shortcomings, it would not be about their mental incapacity.

And, yes, you have to be in a position of strength to blow it in the first place, but nonetheless they have done so. That was all I was saying!

Chelsea/Liverpool - Total bottle job last season in several games

Season before - Utd ran away with it = Season long bottle job from City

Season before - Utd perform one of the greatest bottle jobs in PL history throwing away their 8 point lead, drawing with Everton having been in total control.

I could keep going back season by season highlighting every single bottle job if you like?

Arsenal won more trophies when our 'indiscipline' was greater, even Villain accepts it has improved greatly in recent (last 8) seasons.
So his point is pretty terrible, tbf.

I'm now not sure what the argument is! You're saying that Keown's actions were ok, because Cantona once played for them???

Cantona was suspended for 9 months by the way, and served his time. The difference with AW (and this is the point) is that he refused to address the issue, admit there was a problem, or discipline the player.

That Utd bottle from 8 points ahead is one of the biggest mental capitulations ever seen in football

That has to be a reflection on the manager and the club as a whole

comment by Villain of the Peace (U19898)
posted 39 seconds ago
I'm now not sure what the argument is! You're saying that Keown's actions were ok, because Cantona once played for them???

Cantona was suspended for 9 months by the way, and served his time. The difference with AW (and this is the point) is that he refused to address the issue, admit there was a problem, or discipline the player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So in your point about Arsenal's mental weakness, you cite an example of us completely intimidating an opponent into missing a vital penalty due to mental weakness as an argument ?

"comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 19 seconds ago
Arsenal won more trophies when our 'indiscipline' was greater, even Villain accepts it has improved greatly in recent (last 8) seasons.
So his point is pretty terrible, tbf."

Not really because (as both sides have pointed out, and it's even stated in the article) it is not solely down to red cards.

The red cards flocked in because of the lack of discipline in the club, and lack of control AW has/had over his players. This translated into a lack of footballing discipline on the pitch, and the attitudes of the players (Gallas was the example I gave) undermining their challenge, causing their title bid in that particular year to be derailed.

There have been times when it is not down to lack of discipline, and there have been times when they have shown the character to succeed, and there have been times when other teams have bottled it, but I am referring to the occasions on which Arsenal HAVE bottled it, and they need to spot the warning signs.

I am sure they are aware of them, I'm not quite sure why your fans aren't.

The difference with AW (and this is the point) is that he refused to address the issue, admit there was a problem, or discipline the player.
--------
And we won the league. Unbeaten. Indiscipline proved very costly

"So in your point about Arsenal's mental weakness, you cite an example of us completely intimidating an opponent into missing a vital penalty due to mental weakness as an argument"

That was very clever, given that he'd already missed the pen. How much mental strength did Keown need to perform that act?

So you'd agree that in order for Liverpool to progress, they need to drop/get rid of Steven Gerrard, who ruined their entire season with his mental weakness?

And Mourinho should be sacked for his mental fragility in games against smaller teams?

"And we won the league. Unbeaten. Indiscipline proved very costly"

Yes it did - they haven't won it since.

comment by Villain of the Peace (U19898)
posted 54 seconds ago
"So in your point about Arsenal's mental weakness, you cite an example of us completely intimidating an opponent into missing a vital penalty due to mental weakness as an argument"

That was very clever, given that he'd already missed the pen. How much mental strength did Keown need to perform that act?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure some stuff happened before the penalty too

And as DJ said.....we fackin went the season unbeaten after that match

comment by Villain of the Peace (U19898)
posted 8 seconds ago
"And we won the league. Unbeaten. Indiscipline proved very costly"

Yes it did - they haven't won it since.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because we became more discipline following the events at OT...

"comment by ● (U4443)
posted 39 seconds ago
So you'd agree that in order for Liverpool to progress, they need to drop/get rid of Steven Gerrard, who ruined their entire season with his mental weakness?"

If his attitude infiltrated the whole team, and became part of their DNA for years to come, then yes, I would

Doubt the OP remembers the 91 season, docked 2 points for indiscipline but still stormed to the league title.

Indiscipline, the curse of Arsenal football club.

And all this because Aaron Ramsey picked up a harsh red card for two shirt pulls.

Villain of the Peace

So now that you are unable to substantiate your erroneous views on Arsenal’s indiscipline we are moving swiftly on to “mental frailties” Okaaay……

Sighting specific incidents from over a decade ago is somewhat desperate.

There isn’t a club in the country who have experienced similar incidents over the last decade. It’s how clubs manage these adversities and move forwards that should be underlined.

I think the United games are a sensitive issue, and they are a bit of an obvious example, so I will try to steer clear of them. But it was AW himself that claimed that SAF had said that Arsenal were weak, and that you cannot let them play football. Consequently teams played more physically against them, and it was effective.

Of course United were then accused of being over-physical, and then Arsenal responded by being pretty dirty and snide-y. They have not reached the same levels since.

It definitely undermined their confidence, and if they were made of sterner stuff, they may have ridden the wave better.

So whose attitude infiltrated our whole team? Gallas?

So we've had several players sulking on the pitch since, yes?

So we've not been able to get over those mental weaknesses and win a trophy since, yes?


There is more evidence that the loser mentality and mental weakness has crept in at Chelsea, Utd and Liverpool than there is for Arsenal.

We are currently in a more successful period than all of them (using timescales that suit my point, like you do)

* sorry... cynically tugging the shirt of an opponent...

"comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
Doubt the OP remembers the 91 season, docked 2 points for indiscipline but still stormed to the league title."

Yes I do remember. Not entirely sure that AW can be blamed for their behaviour that day.

Or are you telling me that they had disciplinary issues before he took over, and he merely compounded them?