And the players you are now calling carp, were part of Fergie's title winning side BB
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Apart from 3 out of the back 4 & Giggs. Nearly our whole defence.

comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 1 minute ago
That's my gripe with the SQUAD, the squad is crap and outside of the first 11
------------------------
I disagree

Squad depth is reasonable.

It's the first XI that needs the work
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I disagree, from the first 11 we need to replace Carrick, add a cb, maybe two.

We then need to replace Fellaini, Young, Valencia, Ando, Fletcher and Clevs.

At this point the likes of Smalling/ Jones, Carrick, maybe even the likes of Herrera will then become the squad players and replace the rubbish squad players we have.

whats the story with vidal

is his injury problem resolved or not ?

comment by roonited (U11635)
posted 33 seconds ago
whats the story with vidal

is his injury problem resolved or not ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the (£34 Million) question

I'll try to make my point using the following, which may help you understand why I feel the squad isn't good enough.


No. Position Player
1 Spain GK David de Gea - First Team
2 Brazil DF Rafael - First Team
3 England DF Luke Shaw - First Team
4 England DF Phil Jones - First Team/ Squad
5 Argentina DF Marcos Rojo- First Team/ Squad
6 NI DF Jonny Evans - Squad
8 Spain MF Juan Mata - First Team/ Squad
10 England FW Wayne Rooney (captain) - First Team
11 Belgium MF Adnan Januzaj- First Team/ Squad
12 England DF Chris Smalling - First Team/ Squad
13 Denmark GK Anders Lindegaard - Squad
14 Mexico FW Javier Hernández - Squad
16 England MF Michael Carrick - Squad
18 England MF Ashley Young - Sold
19 England FW Danny Welbeck - Squad
20 Netherlands FW Robin van Persie - First Team
21 Spain MF Ander Herrera- First Team/ Squad
23 England MF Tom Cleverley Sold
24 Scotland MF Darren Fletcher (vice-captain) - Sold
25 Ecuador MF Antonio Valencia - Sold
26 Japan MF Shinji Kagawa - Squad
28 Brazil MF Anderson- Sold
29 England FW Wilfried Zaha- Sold
30 Uruguay DF Guillermo Varela- Sold
31 Belgium MF Marouane Fellaini- Sold
34 Wales FW Tom Lawrence- Sold
35 England MF Jesse Lingard- Sold
36 Belgium DF Marnick Vermijl- Sold
38 England DF Michael Keane - Back Up
40 England GK Ben Amos- Back Up
41 England DF Reece James- Sold
42 England DF Tyler Blackett - Squad
48 England FW Will Keane - Sold
49 England FW James Wilson - Back Up
50 England GK Sam Johnstone - Sold

That leaves me with 21 players, 22 inc Di Maria. Some of these won't be included due to age.

We have no cover at RB
No top quality cb but plenty of able defenders
One central midfielder I deem first team worthy in a title challenging squad
Only Januzaj and Di Maria as viable options wide, we need good cover (or a Januzaj replacement), not Young and Valenica


There is room for 6/7 players for me until we challange again, and lots of crap to be rid of.

thing is BB..... You could list the City squad and people would think the likes of Milner and Demicheles are not good enough and should be shipped out.

comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 10 minutes ago
And the players you are now calling carp, were part of Fergie's title winning side BB
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Apart from 3 out of the back 4 & Giggs. Nearly our whole defence.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Giggs? Come on!!

Evra's been a weak link for a couple of years
Rio and Vidic are well past their best days

We have also added to the title winning squad, Fellaini, Mata, Januzaj (from the ressies) Herrera Shaw Rojo Di Maria and possibly Vidal

Noone's gonna convince me the squad is weaker now than it was 2 seasons ago

If we go on and sign Vidal too, it wiil be substantially stronger

BB

Agree to disagree

I just think you've got to be careful about revising expectations too much just because you have Van Gaal and what happened last year. Utilised correctly, I would still take your squad over 17 and arguably 18 of the teams in the pl.

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - hustla service (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
thing is BB..... You could list the City squad and people would think the likes of Milner and Demicheles are not good enough and should be shipped out.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Milner is better than any winger or cm we have (Herrera and Carrick aside) and he is not on the level as the first team players.

The likes of Rodwell and Sinclair who were surplus were shipped out.

Their bench yesterday;

03 Sagna
07 Milner
11 Kolarov
13 Caballero
15 Jesús Navas
16 Agüero
25 Fernandinho

I think 5 of those 7 players would go into our first 11.

Giggs is stretching it but the other 3 are relevant & were 2 years younger.

Look at the back line then against now. SAF was also worth a few points a season.

I still think it will change when we get all the players available, but as it stands we look poor.

and when fit, we could have a bench of:

Johnstone, Evans, Rojo, Fletcher, Januzaj, Kagawa, Welbz,

Bring in Vidal and you have Carrick there too. It's not the worst bench in the world.

Like i've said... I'm not over expectent, we will be in the battle for 4th.... But the squad is not THAT far behind City and Chelsea,

As Macca said, we have had a decent squad but not a great starting 11... Seems a bit of a paradox, but it is true. This summer's transfers have boosted that first 11.

comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 4 minutes ago
Giggs is stretching itbut the other 3 are relevant & were 2 years younger.

Look at the back line then against now. SAF was also worth a few points a season.

I still think it will change when we get all the players available, but as it stands we look poor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arctic

Smalling and Jones had plenty of games that season from memory

comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 4 minutes ago
Giggs is stretching itbut the other 3 are relevant & were 2 years younger.

Look at the back line then against now. SAF was also worth a few points a season.

I still think it will change when we get all the players available, but as it stands we look poor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arctic

Smalling and Jones had plenty of games that season from memory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, they just look completely out of their depth. It may well be the new system but they really are struggling.

As Macca said, we have had a decent squad but not a great starting 11... Seems a bit of a paradox, but it is true. This summer's transfers have boosted that first 11.
____________________________________________

Nah, we have decent squad players in the starting 11 who need to be replaced and made squad players.

That's how I see it anyhow.

Ji Sung Park's Cousin - hustla service (U2958)
posted 23 minutes ago
and when fit, we could have a bench of:

Johnstone, Evans, Rojo, Fletcher, Januzaj, Kagawa, Welbz,
___________________________________

For me, Fletch isn't even good enough for the bench and Smalling/ Jones aren't a good enough pairing to be first 11

comment by Busbybabes (U9083)
posted 6 minutes ago
Ji Sung Park's Cousin - hustla service (U2958)
posted 23 minutes ago
and when fit, we could have a bench of:

Johnstone, Evans, Rojo, Fletcher, Januzaj, Kagawa, Welbz,
___________________________________

For me, Fletch isn't even good enough for the bench and Smalling/ Jones aren't a good enough pairing to be first 11
----------------------------------------------------------------------
swings and roundabouts though..... Kolarov and Sagna are hardly top draw.

Like I have said all through this thread though... a top quality CB and CM and we are back challenging.

comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 4 minutes ago
Giggs is stretching itbut the other 3 are relevant & were 2 years younger.

Look at the back line then against now. SAF was also worth a few points a season.

I still think it will change when we get all the players available, but as it stands we look poor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arctic

Smalling and Jones had plenty of games that season from memory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, they just look completely out of their depth. It may well be the new system but they really are struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jones doesn;t look like he's struggling to me

Played well so far

comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by UnitedRedMacca - First with the news!! (U2024)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Arctic Monkey (U14534)
posted 4 minutes ago
Giggs is stretching itbut the other 3 are relevant & were 2 years younger.

Look at the back line then against now. SAF was also worth a few points a season.

I still think it will change when we get all the players available, but as it stands we look poor.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arctic

Smalling and Jones had plenty of games that season from memory
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, they just look completely out of their depth. It may well be the new system but they really are struggling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jones doesn;t look like he's struggling to me

Played well so far
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes & no, he's not looked good when he plays the central defender of the 3 (2nd half on Sunday) although I may well be just talking out of my ar se as I was on holiday so only caught the highlights, it's probably not right for me to comment.

Sorry my boss came in so I cut the previous comment short. I was going to say...

There were times on Sunday where Sunderland were pulling us all over the place. This is Sunderland we're talking about, not Barca or City (god knows what they would've done to us) we looked all at sea at the back. Whether it is the players or the formation or both, but we need to get it sorted quickly.

I know everyone was giving the ball away with sloppy passes but it is definitely more important not to give the ball away in defence in our own half.

As I said, I only watched the highlights so I could be completely wrong, but from what I saw, we were awful at the back.

comment by Busbybabes (U9083)
posted 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
As Macca said, we have had a decent squad but not a great starting 11... Seems a bit of a paradox, but it is true. This summer's transfers have boosted that first 11.
____________________________________________

Nah, we have decent squad players in the starting 11 who need to be replaced and made squad players.

That's how I see it anyhow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I was saying. More or less.

When we last won the league... We had first team players that were good but not great, they were not noticeably better that the players that backed them up....

We are now starting to see great players (Di Maria, Mata), and potentially great players added (Herrera, Shaw, Januzaj).

The first team looks stronger, to me, than it did when we won the league. You can argue the defence looks worse (though I think the options are better than some think, especially if Shaw plays like he did last season).

Midfield is better than it was, with Herrera taking Giggs' spot. But it is still a weak point.... One more player and it starts to look interesting though.

Well the squad players really stepped up tonight, I can see the red and black ribbons already

My expectations are that we will do the domestic treble